Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKSnake on January 17, 2003, 07:09:27 PM
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The ME262 at Everett, Wa crashed on landing this afternoon. It does not appear seriously damaged. It ran off the runway when the left Main Mount failed to come down and lock. Pilot is OK. This was just on the news a few minutes ago.
Snake
Ripsnort and I toured the Project on Dec. 29th and actually had the oppotunity to touch and fondle that very airplane.:D
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Three people in the room with me as I read this post.
Everyone one of them, in unison, "Ok, pilot is ok, HOW ABOUT THE PLANE!!"
Ouch out
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The plane did not appear seriously damaged. It ran off the left side of the runway and nosed over into a gully. I've done it many times in AH:D . The pilot walked away, just like we do.:D
Snake
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Murphy's Law.
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Here's a Pic
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:( :mad: :( :( :eek: :( :(
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The plane was the first reproduction of the Messerschmitt 262. It had done a test flight Dec. 20 with its gear down, and Friday's flight was the first attempt at a "gear up" flight.
As the pilot landed, the left landing gear collapsed. The pilot managed to guide the plane off into grass, but it ended up in a ditch.
This group is making reproductions of the planes, called the ME 262 project, is building the planes with new parts and planned to sell them for about $2 million each.
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html
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Originally posted by TeeDog
The plane was the first reproduction of the Messerschmitt 262. It had done a test flight Dec. 20 with its gear down, and Friday's flight was the first attempt at a "gear up" flight.
As the pilot landed, the left landing gear collapsed. The pilot managed to guide the plane off into grass, but it ended up in a ditch.
This group is making reproductions of the planes, called the ME 262 project, is building the planes with new parts and planned to sell them for about $2 million each.
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html
What a COOL idea!
Now I REALLY wish I were rich:)
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Man that sucks:( Glad he walked away. Ive been following her progess for awhile now.
He lose his perkies?:D
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Is it just me or is $2million for a jet, pretty damn cheap?
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Damn....too bad. :(
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I just can't get myself all worked up over this... a rich schmoe's toy, zero historical significance. Nice that the projects people have jobs.. always sorry to see the loss of a plane or pilot; regardless...
Possibly because the damn things a Nazi glory statement... I mean, what doofus would wanna have a rendition of an aircraft built with slave labor and whose sole mission was to kill Americans 10 at a time... I suspect some WWII bomber pilot would rejoice if the damn thing exploded instead of running into a ditch.
OTOH, I suppose every former LW experten still alive gets a stiffie when they see one.
(hang looks under chair for nomex suit)
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Shit, I'd like one! If you buy me one I promise not to down ANY allied bombers with it! Of course, I'd settle for a ducted fan RC version too, how about it?! :)
SOB
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Some guy lost a 1/4 scale version of one of these at the Delaware meet last year. The cheering was quite loud.... he midaired a FW190. Twofers. ;)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
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(hang looks under chair for nomex suit) [/B]
Do you really expect to get flamed because of your opinion? Just who do you think these people are that read and post on this BB? Everyone will agree that you have a right to your opinion.
I just happened to be one that disagrees with you, it does have a place in history and I personally saw the care and attention to detail that went into that A/C. The plane was built by permission from Messerschmidt on condition that no swastikas would be displayed. The people at the project have put in a lot of time and a lot of that is volunteer work.
Nuff on that.
AKSnake
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Do you really expect to get flamed because of your opinion?
Of course.
Just who do you think these people are that read and post on this BB?
Hehhhehehe..... hahahha... whooohoooo.... *mmmmummmpfff* Ok.. I'll respond to that.. tho the first and second sentance of yer post seem to me to be at some odds. I think the folks that read these posts are WWII aircraft enthusiasts, not terribly unlike myself. As such, I would expect some of them to have prefrences as to what aircraft they like, or failing that, aircraft they don't like.
I just happened to be one that disagrees with you, it does have a place in history
A restored original A/C.. certainly. It should be preserved. A replica, concieved, developed and marketed to rich bonehaids... *yawn* Nope.. I don't think that toy is any more significant or important than the models we build and fly of the ORIGINALS.
The plane was built by permission from Messerschmidt on condition that no swastikas would be displayed.
What, I'm supposed to be respectful of the fact that that company is attempting to soften the blow to folks that still recall that a Nazi government in Germany implemented and deployed that aircraft? Or of the fact that Messerchmidt worked to death thousands of jews, slavs and other 'lesser races' in their assembly plants putting it in service? C'mon.. the aircraft, despite it's historical significance also unavoidably represents a national evil. Perhaps if they emblazoned 'no lesser races were harmed in the production of this replica' on the side.... ;)
The people at the project have put in a lot of time and a lot of that is volunteer work.
My heart pumps peanut-butter for 'em. *yawn* But then again... I guess you already knew that.
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I started a new post on this subject because I didn't read to see if there was already one up.
If you would like to see some video of the crash........
click the link, read the story and watch the video.
http://www.king5.com/topstories/NW_011703AVBmesserschmidt.328f35ff.html
Maybe I should get a knife, and some bread for the peanut-butter?:(
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hang dude its a airplaine
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that's what happens when you try to rebuild evil planes to fly again. Nazi wanna bes!!
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hang dude its a airplaine
Yup. Thats my point. It's just an airplane. Or was. No more interesting or significant than a movie prop.
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damm!
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I just can't get myself all worked up over this... a
Possibly because the damn things a Nazi glory statement... I mean, what doofus would wanna have a rendition of an aircraft built with slave labor and whose sole mission was to kill Americans 10 at a time... I suspect some WWII bomber pilot would rejoice if the damn thing exploded instead of running into a ditch.
(hang looks under chair for nomex suit)
Hehe. I'll have to ask my dad one of these days. I don't think he ever had to shoot at a 262; I think he was in the Pacific before they saw action.
I don't get terribly worked up; owning a WWII replica is pretty far down on my list of toys to buy, but it is kind of neat to see the first production jet aircraft to see combat back in the air. I'd LOVE to see one at an airshow along side the P51s and P38s and all the other WWII fighters.
Then again, I get upset when Cesnas crash. Never like to see airplanes get pranged. Particularly virtual airplanes. ESPECIALLY virtual airplanes with me flying them. :D
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Hangtime are you a pilot?
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Hangtime, clean it up, and play nice.
HiTech
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Mike Dorn(Worf) use to fly warbirds and probably flies AH owns an F-86, now that is a beautiful little bird.
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Didnt you get banned or something?
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Originally posted by Innominate
Is it just me or is $2million for a jet, pretty damn cheap?
I guess is thats pretty expensive. For course for a ME262 its worth whatever the market brings. I remember an F-86 for sale on the flightline at Oshkosh several years back for $80,000. It was in flying condition and was featured during the show.
Im pretty sure most Jet warbirds sell for less than P51s or other prop fighters.
In fact, With Jet Warbirds its not the purchase price that kills you, Its the operational Costs.
Of course Im sure a Lear Jet is pretty expensive too.
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Operational costs on the average Lear run about $4500/hour. Some models are more and some less. However, if you can afford $2mil for a toy you can afford to operate it. I can't think of too many ways to make this thing make money for a purchaser, so it must be a rich man's toy only. BTW, your average Lear goes for more then ten times the cost of one of these replicas. The Lear owners that I know also have more money tied up in support equipment and parts for their Lears then a replica 262 would cost (that may not be typical).
Replica 262's have a very high cool factor, though.
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Hangtime, don't eat any sauerkraut and schnitzel, Nazis ate that stuff. Kept them alive to continue their evil acts.
Sounds ridiculous don't it. The 262 project doesn't represent the Nazi order. It represents people building a plane. In an economy where grants and subsidies for a project like that are far and few between, building and selling them is a good option. I reckon the first one sold might just cover the expenses. And who knows, maybe the profits might go towards building other historical planes. Start with the cash cow first to fund the rest. Sound business plan.
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Hiya JB42!
Just so happenes I love Jagershnitzel. As far as I'm aware, Jagersnitzels were never used to kill allied aircrews, so i figure it's ok. ;)
Look guys, it's my self-appointed mission in life to ridicule anything LW, and I'm just doin my best to remain in character. You shoulda heard me laffin and chortling when I typed those posts above. I don't take me seriously on LW subjects.. I'm shocked anybody else here does either.
If you like LW airplanes, just remember when you saddle up yer trusty uber POS FW.. Kurt Tank wuz a panzie in crotchless leather leotards.
etc, etc.
:D
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never used to kill allied aircrews
you mean Terrorfliegers......... the ones that bombed women and children. That door swings both ways dont it? :p
But I do agree with you, I mean so what if the planes damaged the guys lived. Its not like a piece of history was damaged. It a toy for some rich dudes.
They'll fix it.
Besides it was an ugly arse 2 seater. Its as ugly as a 109 Bouchon.
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Hangtime, I understand you think it's just in good fun, but this realy is not an apropiate thread for that.
HiTech
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maybe they are selling them after their first test flight as slightly used.
Originally posted by Innominate
Is it just me or is $2million for a jet, pretty damn cheap?
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Hangtime, I understand you think it's just in good fun, but this realy is not an apropiate thread for that.
Understood. My apologies sir, for making a mess of this thread.
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I realize there are some people posting to this thread that could care less, or would just as soon take a blow torch to the whole thing, but for those that are truly interested, I found the website connected to the Me262 Construction Project.
Click this link, http://www.stormbirds.com/project/
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posted on the warbirdsresource board.
Here's what I have been told from somebody in the know.
"The crash was kind of a sucker punch. The gear indicated down after the emergency Nitrogen extension. It looked good from the chase plane, and indicated 3 greens.
The had done quite a bit of work on the gear retraction and hydraulic system before the flight. Changed a microswitch on the nose gear which shut off the hydraulic electrical pump, and done at least 10 successful cycles.
The gear was first retracted successfully. Wolf then cycled the gear down, but the cycle stopped with the nose gear down about 35 degrees and the mains still in the housing with the doors closed.
After a few more tries and checking the cb, the emergency extension was tried and gave good results with the gear going right down.
There was no option to go around. The aircraft had landed on the center line and was operating normally when the wing went down, and was brought back up momentarily with the aileron. This lasted only a second, and there was no time for engine response to effect a go around. He didn't try it as he became a passenger pretty quickly. It would have been much better if he had been able to keep the plane on the runway.
Alas, there was quite a bit of damage. The left gear that collapsed was fine, but the right gear broke and came back and damaged the flaps. They'll figure out the damage when they get straps under it on Monday. They are taking off the movable parts now to avoid further damage on the retrieval. "
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Originally posted by Voss
I can't think of too many ways to make this thing make money for a purchaser, so it must be a rich man's toy only.
The show up fees alone that most airshows will offer for a flying 262 (even a replica) will bring over $250K (average # show appearences) just the first year. That does not include the value of the free consumables given on top of it. While this aircraft is an expensive up front purchase, if properly managed and taken care of, it can pay for itself.
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Hangtime ,, u a vewy vewy bad man :)
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yup. I coulda made a carreer outta bein politicly un-correct.
some other bozo beat me to it.
;)
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Larry Flint?
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http://www.kirotv.com/news/1917269/detail.html
link to vidio
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Yup. Thats my point. It's just an airplane. Or was. No more interesting or significant than a movie prop.
hes right. its no more interesting than the zeros ,vals and kates built for the tora tora tora film.
It a shame to see it crash for me personally but only because id like to see one fly past me OR maybe see a new film made about the bombers by someone like stephen spielburg with jets in it.
Shame to see any aircraft crash but as it will undoubtedly be repaired its no biggie.
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http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/stormbirdrisingjg_3.htm
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I imagine there could be considerable damage under the skin, but overall I was amazed at the lack of visible damage. This could be attributed to the fact that the Me 262 is skinned in mild steel and has a steel main wing spar. All of the wing sheet metal will have to be removed, most likely, before the interior damage can be assessed.
Wow, kinda surprising to me. The whole plane is skinned in mild steel?
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Originally posted by hblair
Wow, kinda surprising to me. The whole plane is skinned in mild steel?
95% of the aircraft is made to the specifications of the era, including Aluminum, steel and wood!.
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I've had the gear go out on a Me-262 a couple of times and managed to keep it on the runway. That pilot sucks.
MiniD
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Man if you had a lot of money to spend... talk about a fun toy.
Would seem like an ME109 variant or FW190 would be much more fun and easier to maintain though.
Does anyone build replicas of these?
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Does anyone build replicas of these?
They do:
http://www.flugwerk.de
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Originally posted by Panzershrec
Man if you had a lot of money to spend... talk about a fun toy.
Would seem like an ME109 variant or FW190 would be much more fun and easier to maintain though.
Does anyone build replicas of these?
Check out these 109s in North Dakota! (http://www.web-birds.com/miller/)
It's too bad we can't all have one of these!
goaly