Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: whels on January 18, 2003, 01:22:45 PM
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In AW we had a plane factory the produced Spits. kill that factory
no spits for 30 mins to an hour.
we need a Plane Factory in AH. it could be a high value strat for buffs to earn perkies and make the enemy defend it to keep thier planes. place it close to HQs and move the 163 there as its staging base. dont put just 1 plane type there for production, put 3 4 or 5. could use the top 5 most used, or top 5 in kills so that it could change every tour which planes would be there.
right now the top 5 would probably be spit9, niki, La7, P51 and Tiffy. below would be an example of how a version of the
factory complex could be done.
Big brown squares would be the production hangers, each 1 producing a different plane. destroy it, no plane of that type for a period of time. each Hanger would take like 20k or so to kill so it would take multiple buffs to kill them.
the blues represent fuel for 163, and other targets for bombs.
could make it even bigger and add more prodution hangers for each plane type so that you would have to kill more then 1 hanger to stop the prodution of it.
this would give the buffers something to hit that could have a direct effect on the enemies war capabilities.
whels
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I think that proposals like this just make it tougher on the guys that allready have it tough. Being in the bucket is bad enough without having to fight in a plane you dont like.
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Good idea Whels. Being a bomber right now does'nt fill the heart with much enthusiasm, the strat targets don't really seem to effect the war effort at all and the only one that did has been made more or less immune to bomber attack. Something like this might give the bomber's a purpose.
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I think Whels is trying to point out that strat in AH doesn't have enough of an impact on the game for people to actually want to hit it. AH has a great strat system; unfortunately it's for the most part wasted effort because almost nobody uses it except when milkrunning an overrun depot or something of the sort.
I like the aircraft factory idea, and in AH it could even have a twist....if you want to use a plane for which the factory is destroyed, it could be perked at like 10-15 points until the factory rebuilds. 30 minutes of paying 10 perks for a plane wouldn't drastically alter the game. The factories could be spaced in areas around a country's "main" airfields and hence help the "in the bucket" country by virtue of having more AAA in the area.
Also, thanks to the new "perk multiplier", the country in the bucket would be less affedcted by such a system, yet have more incentive to hit the OTHER guy's factories.
J_A_B
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Just another way to make the bucket deeper in my opinion.
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no it probably would be better if ...say at each base was maby warehouses or planes that sit near the runway but it wouldent be a warehousr or plane for every type of plane maby a warehouse for the most popular as said above ....... or maby planes near the runway that would disable that single plane at the field till the object respawns
but to do that correctly you would probably have to have some things changed like maby long range fighters/buffs at the outer fields and the med range then close range
but also to do that HTC would have to make it so when the front line of bases are capped then the new front line would change the enabled planes on its own
and if that was done then the fields could probably have limited amounts of planes at a field and a rps
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rps = death of AH (and is also OT from this thread so I'll leave it at that)
J_A_B
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I had suggested something similar to kesmai long ago.
Instead of specific structures relating to airplane types, relate percent of damage to factory and technology level. Aircraft models and variants became available from approx. 1939 to 1945. So for every 20% of damage to the factory, reduce the available technology level by 1-year.
A variation to this theme would be to reduce the availability of these aircraft at the front line fields. That'd be typical, REMFs always have the good stuff.
It would put some additional purpose into attacking and defending the strategic targets, other than HQ.
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Instead of having factories for spits bombers etc.
Have those bombable strat factories targets be for the "perked" Items.
Tigers, 262's etc etc.
And/or depending on how damaged a facility is let it have an effect as to how many are available at any one time.
Drediock
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Whels:
I like the idea, in part because I am familiar with it, and know that it can work. I disagree with their location though. I wouldn't place it anywhere near an HQ complex, because it would make it too easy to decimate a country which, may already be in the "bucket" as someone pointed out. And any 40k dweeb in a buff could strike that kind of dagger into the heart of an already pressured country, simply by overflying contested areas and then descend into the rear of a country.
I would place the factory(ies) in a rear area but, perhaps west or east of the HQ. Of course the map would have to be big enough also, yet not as big as the Pizza map.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Just another way to make the bucket deeper in my opinion.
A valid point, but easy enough to work around. First idea that comes to mind it to tie regeneration time and building strength to player numbers the way perks are now.
In fact this would not be a bad idea to implement for all target even now. (variable building strenght and strat regeneration time tied to player numbers)
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I dont think id like to arrive in a country only to find 5 planes denied me.
I could accept 1 type of aircraft to be missing if it was forever changing automatically.
perhaps the most overused model in the country becomes the aircraft to be produced at the factory.
This way whatever aircraft one country uses the most will be easy for other countries to target. Say for instance you are fighting the rooks(just an example!) and you happen to see loads of spitfires and then attack the target whels suggests you can make them unavailable for a short period (like a penalty preriod).
Im not sure its a good idea to allow this and also if its at all right to force any player to not fly what he likes purely because its the most overused model.P-51 fans are just that, they dont necessarily fly them because they happen to ge a good fighter, it can be as simple as they like the look of them. To then deny them the chance to fly it might make some quit playing altogether.
Perhaps these people would agree to a cerain limit of use rather than a total ban. Something like: If you wabt to fly one during the 'down-time' of this target you can launch but if you dont land it safely you cannot take a 2nd of that same type.
The more you think about it though it does seem to infringe on someones right to fly whatever they like but then overuse of certain types also tends to ruin a few peoples fun too.Those that like to fly the trickier types are forced to always fly against superior planes.Its a sticky one for HTC.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Instead of having factories for spits bombers etc.
Have those bombable strat factories targets be for the "perked" Items.
Tigers, 262's etc etc.
And/or depending on how damaged a facility is let it have an effect as to how many are available at any one time.
Drediock
This would counter-act the "perk" balance that HT just implemeted.
The stronger country will bomb the daylights out of these strats owned by the weaker country, so with HT's current "perk" balancing logic, the perk rides would be cheap, but not available.
Now we are back to where we were before HT implemented the new code !!!
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There is a simpler way..........
AH now has a perk multiplier which is balanced by the arena numbers.....................
Supposing it could by adjusted by by a perk adder (note adding points not multiplying) based upon attrition at key facilities....... could even be the cities......... or even an overall attrition factor.......... or off new facilities (the 1st two do not require terrain changes)
It would work (inversely)off the ENY value................
maths would be as follows but numbers would vary to what ever gives the best balance.......
Eg using cities
Rounddown.(((90 - %)/ENY) - 2) (neg number = zero)
Stuff with ENY's over 30 is always free
Stuff with ENY of 30 cost 1 perk @ 0% city health
Stuff with ENY's of 25 cost 1 perk @ 15% (and lower) city health
Stuff with ENY's of 20 cost 1 perk @ 30% city health rising to 2 perks at 10%(and lower) city health.
Stuff with ENY's of 15 cost 1 perk @ 45% city health rising to 4 perks at 0% city health.
Stuff with ENY's of 10 cost 1 perk @ 60% city health rising to 7 perks at 0% city health.
Actually bombing something to 0% is very rare.
Rides already perked get these added to them.
The side modifier is used after these numbers are added.
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ok so I've been away awhile... BUT!! strat targets are usually the last things hit after a team is already well in the bucket... Something like this would possibly just add to the steamroller effect.
We fight the war backwards in AH.. with strat being hit usually after a team is already rolling on its heels.
Something to encourage strat to be hit first needs to be put in place...
My thoughts
SKurj
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Rather than restrict plane types, restrict availablity of all the types.
If a factory at 100% provides 100-planes per hour at all fields, reduce this by 9% for every 10% of damage.
Fighter hanger damage/destroyed should also restrict available number of aircraft per hour at the effected field.
This of course does not help a country that is already on the ropes, but why reward failure.
This would certainly provide some incentive to defend and attack strat targets.
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Thats just deepens the bucket for the losing side to the point of losing huge numbers of subscribers. Imagine not being able to fly a plane beacuse some other schmoe got his idiot self vulched 25 times....
Oh yea....I see this happening.......ummmm no
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Ok.. first of all... I rearely fly any of the planes that a reasonable person would expect to be affected but...
I think it's a terrible idea. I also think killing the dar is a terrible idea and so is 25% fuel.
I have played since 1.03 and I have seen maybe 2 resets in the whole time I have been on. I play about 20-40 hrs a month. I bet that the hours I play is a lot more common than those who play 150 hrs a month or 8 hours in a day.
For most of us... getting on to enjoy an hour or two sucks if there is no dar or all the good fields near the action have 25% fuel.. It would be worse if there were 5 planes, or even 2 planes dennied to us but available to the other 2/3 of the players on.
the "strat" you are asking to affect people with is not affecting some guy that watched it all develop over the course of 5-10 hors like you did.... it is affecting some poor shmoe that just logged on.
lazs
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This is probebly better suited to the Mission arena planned for the future..........Move along people.Nothing to see here
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I'm with laz on this one
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Originally posted by lazs2
the "strat" you are asking to affect people with is not affecting some guy that watched it all develop over the course of 5-10 hors like you did.... it is affecting some poor shmoe that just logged on.
The way to deal with that would require more bookkeeping on the part of the host, but it eliminates the problem. What you do is have a 'bank account' for each player that keeps a count of the number of planes of each type available to that player. At intervals determined by the aircraft-production strat status of your country, your account for each plane type is incremented by 1, up to the maximum number set for that plane type. When you take off in a plane, your account balance for that plane type is decremented; it is incremented if you land successfully.
What this does is create a 'cushion' for a player, so that when they log in, it takes a moderately determined attempt at losing all their planes before they're driven down to having to wait for 'resupply' before getting more. So someone who's been on for five hours while his country has gotten pounded into rubble may be forced to take up less-popular planes while he waits for the shattered aircraft production to make more FW-190D-9s for him, while someone who just logged on and hasn't been on since the preceding day has a full 'bank balance', so he can fly 190D9s until he's lost all of his balance.
Making the balance accumulation independent of the user's being online eliminates the people who would game the aircraft resupply by blowing their account balance, then logging out and back in to get a fresh balance. And HTC would be able to use the account limits to place more 'historical' limits on usage; using both plane availability and perk cost to prevent people from upping endless numbers of rare planes and losing them. It also deters the suicide jabos and bombers, in that a determined use of a plane type for suicide runs is going to run down a player's balance for them, where a player who was skilled or careful or both may not even notice that his country's aircraft factory is down.
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SO the newbies pay for not being able to fly?Nope.Like I said This is a good idea for the Mission arena,but but not really suited for the MA.Face it.Most people like to dogfight more than settel into more realistic endevors.While theres plenty of planes to pick from,The new guys tend to stick to a plane till they get a feel for it.Mainly spits,La7's Niks because there told there forgiving.Start throwing restrictiond on the spits and such,it might make them a little less inclined to play.Much more directed at a Mission arena style.Not the main MHO
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Lazs and others -
You are most correct. In order to maintain playability for folks just entering the arena, limiting the plane sets do to strat would strongly effect subscriptions especially among the new players. This type of strat would be much better suited to a game play that provides continuity.
It's bad enough logging on to find the RADAR down and you country down to 5-bases when 12-hours ago when you logged off your side was ruling the world.
This is a dead thread as far as the main arena goes.