Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on January 19, 2003, 01:36:31 PM
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As far as I know, no European states have a death penalty any longer, although quite a few countries did within the past 40 years. Britain had hanging. The national mood changed on a day when there was to be a hanging, and people would be talking about it at school.
More recently, I’ve read ”The Hangman’s Tale”, the autobiography of Syd Dernley, who served the government as a professional hangman. When I read this book, I came to realise that such executions were much more swift than I could have imagined. The condemned person would have been assessed – the person’s weight was critical, as this determined the distance of the drop which itself was controlled by the length of the rope which was attached to a wooden beam by means of a metal peg. The peg could be inserted into one of a number of holes arranged vertically in the beam to alter its effective length. Someone of small stature might have to be dropped 7’6” or even 8’, but for a large man the drop would need to be only about 6’6”. Forget TV dramatisations with the Priest, the glass of brandy etc.; it wasn’t like that. Dernley and crew would burst into the cell, the condemned person would be seized, rushed into the adjoining gallows room and blindfolded, and his feet bound together with a leather strap. Once the rope had been put around his neck and the noose tightened, the crew vacated the platform, the lever was pulled and the floor fell away. Dernley assures the reader that in most cases, this entire procedure was over in about 8 or 9 seconds. We are also led to believe that death was instantaneous, the neck being broken like a dried twig. Dernley and his team would then go to enjoy a breakfast of bacon and eggs, returning some 45 minutes later to take down the body. The death penalty in Britain was abolished in 1965.
In France, there was the guillotine, which seemed to be a somewhat foolproof method. I never heard of any botched jobs. Spain had a firing squad, and also garrotting. I didn’t like the sound of garrotting at all. Some sort of strangulation which culminates in the snapping of the spinal cord.
That’s all history now, with the USA as the only remaining country in the civilised western world to retain capital punishment. I am actually in favour of the death penalty. I feel that if murder has been committed, the perpetrator deserves to forfeit his or her own life. However, I also believe that there should be no spectacle. It should be as humane as possible, regardless of the crime committed. But what method would that be? Is there any “nice” way to go?
In 1981 when I was living in Illinois, the execution of Steve Judy was carried out in the electric chair of the neighbouring state of Indiana. I saw Judy interviewed on TV, and he was just a few years younger than I was. He had killed three girls in front of their mother, and then killed the mother. A heinous crime indeed, and there is no doubt that Judy deserved to die – he said so himself. He could have intervened on his own behalf and had the sentence commuted to life imprisonment, but didn’t. The damnedest thing is that he seemed so rational in those TV interviews.
I couldn’t sleep that night. The following day, news of Judy’s execution was announced by the newscaster Sam Donaldson, who actually made two errors. The first error was that the voltage used was given as 23 thousand volts – the initial voltage was actually 23 hundred volts. And the second error was that he was grinning from ear to ear as he said it. My gut reaction to that was “you ****ing ***t. A measure of decorum would have been appropriate there”. Yeah I know, some crimes are bad, but it does not behove a civilised society to glorify the moment at which a condemned man is put to death.
I have often wondered which choice of execution method I would make if I were a condemned man facing capital punishment, were I to be in that unfortunate position, and were such choice to be offered. Electric chair? Surely the most terrifying form. Gas Chamber? Not pleasant. Firing squad? Probably swift, but violent. Lethal injection? Possibly the best of a bad bunch – what do you think? Maybe hanging wasn’t so bad after all...
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these threads are already out of style.
try to find a new subject for argument please.
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Animal - :confused: -there is no argument.
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everything here is an arguement waiting to happen.
even if no one will care to read your giant wall of text
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Originally posted by beet1e
I have often wondered which choice of execution method I would make if I were a condemned man facing capital punishment, were I to be in that unfortunate position, and were such choice to be offered. Electric chair? Surely the most terrifying form. Gas Chamber? Not pleasant. Firing squad? Probably swift, but violent. Lethal injection? Possibly the best of a bad bunch – what do you think? Maybe hanging wasn’t so bad after all...
I would choose old age. If that option wasn't available I'd pick lethal injection. I would like to say the possibility of me being condemned to die is a remote one, but lately it seeme we're executing alot of innocent people so it is a possibility.
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I dislike the mob mentality that goes with capital punishment; the glee taken in the killing. Those closely affected by the crime I can understand and empathise with - those that watch the events on TV are self-righteously leeching off a crappy situation all round.
Still, if you could remove all doubt from the equation I would have no problem with taking a life for a life. I'm not a Christian so I don't have to abide by laws such as 'Thou shalt not kill'. Reasonable doubt is a very subjective thing, so I'm against the death penalty.
Hanging seems quite humane, the guiletine too. Then of course their's stoning to death using stones of a size determined by legislature.
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IMO, society has become more savage the more "civilized" we have become.
Talk to some of the old timers who remember the public executions, they felt and still feel that seeing what fate awaited you should you commit a serious enough crime to warrant a death penalty deterred some criminals. No one wanted to be seen swinging from a gallows, watched by the public as they kicked and twitched in their death throes...........
Nowadays, we give them privacy, albeit limited, as some are allowed to witness the executions. Lethal injections, painless to the condemned. Same with the gas chamber. Torture then murder a person or persons, you will get an easy death, no pain, just go to sleep.....pure BS IMHO.
Maybe some thought should be given to making a more serious, striking impact on potential criminals. Letting them see firsthand what will happen "might" make them think twice.
A subject like this really has too many variables for any one thing to be the ideal solution. But my thinking is that if someone is going to commit a savage heinous crime, then their penalty should be of the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" type. Savage, brutal crimes equating to a savage, brutal death.
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It does have proven recidivism rate of zero though.
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Originally posted by Toad
It does have proven recidivism rate of zero though.
Nah, it puts it into the negatives.
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florida put ted bundy to death
ted bundy will never rape and kill another young women
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Neither will the innocent people that have been put to death. But then again, they never killed or raped anyone to begin with.
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I think today's level of criminal science should silence the old arguments of the possibility of killing an innocent man but there should be absolutely no doubt and DNA evidence securing the conviction to be able to issue the death sentence. The way they do it? well it may not be very christian but perhaps the moment of terror as they are dragged from the cell to the gallows as you described above might just be what they deserved after subjecting someone else to such terror.
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Give the condemned a dose of oral barbituates to put them to sleep. Give a lethal dose of carbon monoxide after they are asleep. Only for those that are truly guilty without a reasonable doubt. Only if we're to have a death penalty.
Otherwise, life in prison w/o entertainment and w/o exercise. Given life imprisonment w/ DNA proof, they should spend the rest of their lives behind bars w/o the automatic costly appeals. The prisoner can then choose of his or her freewill to end their lives using the above sample. Heck of a lot cheaper than how it's done now.
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Real life version of The Running Man, complete with a fat guy lit up like a Christmas tree, live on pay-per-view! Proceeds could go to the schools.
SOB
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If I was going to be executed and I could pick the method, I'd pick the electric chair.
Lethal injection bothers me.....I don't like needles :)
J_A_B
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Sorry for those "Español-challenged", I'm not translating this one, but Beetle's post brought memories of this fine song, which considers various forms of execution and decides that burning in a pire has an unbeatable appeal.
Es un asunto muy delicado
el de la pena capital
porque además del condenado
juega el gusto de cada cual.
Empalamiento, lapidamiento
inmersión, crucifixión,
desuello, descuartizamiento
todas son dignas de admiración.
Pero dejadme, ¡ay!, que yo prefiera
la hoguera, la hoguera, la hoguera
la hoguera tiene que se yo
que sólo tiene la hoguera.
Se que han probado su eficacia
los carchutos del pelotón
la guinda del tiro de gracia
es exclusiva del paredón.
La guillotina, por supuesto,
por ser el chic de lo francés
la cabeza que cae en el cesto
ojos y lengua de través.
Pero dejadme, ¡ay!, que yo prefiera
la hoguera, la hoguera, la hoguera
la hoguera tiene que sé yo
que sólo tiene la hoguera.
No tengo elogios suficientes
para la cámara de gas
que para grandes contingentes
ha demostrado ser el as.
No negaré que el balanceo
de la horca un hallazgo es
y lo que se estira el reo
cuando lo lastran por los pies.
Pero dejadme, ¡ay!, que yo prefiera
la hoguera, la hoguera, la hoguera
la hoguera tiene que se yo
que sólo tiene la hoguera.
Sacudir con corriente alterna
reconozco que no está mal
la silla eléctrica es moderna
americana, funcional.
Y se que iba de maravilla
nuestro castizo Garrote Vil
para ajustarle la bolilla
al pescuezo más incivil.
Pero dejadme, ¡ay!, que yo prefiera
la hoguera, la hoguera, la hoguera
la hoguera tiene que sé yo
que sólo tiene la hoguera.
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I'm all for executing criminals, but problems arise when deciding who the criminals are. Innocent people have surely been executed, therefor I am against the death penalty now.
As for methods of execution, I believe a tree shredder would be appropriate. Simply drop the criminal from a height of 10 feet head first into the device. Death would be instantaneous. Plus it would be neat to watch.
FYI, the guillitine did NOT produce instaneous death. A person's head was still alive for 10-20 seconds after being seperated from the body. A scientist who was set to be executed during some French revolution asked the executioner to count how long he blinked his eyes after his head was chopped off. When the blade sliced his head off, he was able to blink his eyes for 12 seconds if I recall correctly.
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I find it hard to believe that, david. The body and head would be in total shock. The fluttering of the eyelids was probably a nervous action similar to how chickens run around the yard after having their heads chopped off.
Otherwise, what would stop the recently be-headed cheering the crowd with a little song or joke? ;)
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...lately it seeme we're executing alot of innocent people
Please name one.
ra
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Gladitorial Games!
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Originally posted by J_A_B
If I was going to be executed and I could pick the method, I'd pick the electric chair.
Lethal injection bothers me.....I don't like needles :)
J_A_B
Funny you don't like needles/injections, with a name like JAB ;)
Thanks for the replies, guys. Seems our self-appointed moderator was a little wide of the mark. ;)
Eddiek said "Savage, brutal crimes equating to a savage, brutal death." - Eddie, I can't look you in the eye and say that you're wrong, but I don't want to live in a society like that. Having said that, it also has to be said that in countries like Singapore and Malaysia, the rotan cane is an effective deterrent, but we're talking about corporal, not capital, punishment here. I read about one of those canings... strewth, I couldn't believe the ferocity of it. :eek:
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Originally posted by J_A_B
If I was going to be executed and I could pick the method, I'd pick the electric chair.
Lethal injection bothers me.....I don't like needles :)
J_A_B
YIKES...electric chair? No frigging way man. Can you imagine what it would be like when you are strapped into that chair...the terror that must go along with that? Then imagine the agony as the electricity first hits you and starts to cook you from the inside. They tape your eyes over so that the eyeballs don't pop right out of your head, but that doesn't stop them from liquifying and pouring out from the sides of the tape...along with lots of the red-red gruby. It is a nasty hoorible death.
I've heard that the electric chair is a very similar death to being burned alive.
I'd take the injection...a little pinsalamander and you go to sleep. You just never wake up.
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Originally posted by Dowding
I find it hard to believe that, david. The body and head would be in total shock. The fluttering of the eyelids was probably a nervous action similar to how chickens run around the yard after having their heads chopped off.
Otherwise, what would stop the recently be-headed cheering the crowd with a little song or joke? ;)
Without air from the lungs, sound would be impossible. Rich people set for execution would pay the executioner to dull the blade. This would indeed shock the systems and cause instantanious death. A sharp blade would sever the head so swiftly and neatly that it would stay alive for a little while.
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Without air from the lungs, sound would be impossible. Rich people set for execution would pay the executioner to dull the blade. This would indeed shock the systems and cause instantanious death. A sharp blade would sever the head so swiftly and neatly that it would stay alive for a little while.
It would seem impossible for a beheaded person to be conscious for even a second. Not only are all the nerves severed, but the blood vessels to the brain are severed too, dropping the blood pressure in the brain to zero. Even if there was some technical way to measure that the person was still alive after a beheading, how could he be conscious of it? If I were a rich person set for beheading, I would save my money and let the executioner use a nice sharp blade.
ra
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Maybe we oughta make all crimes capital offenses but execution dependent on their being commited in a zone that is secretly changing locale.
OK, who can name that episode? :)
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What? No TNG fans?
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Dowding, it is not impossible. The head would be severed so fast that the brain wouldn't go into shock. The blood in the brain would have enough oxÿgen to keep someone conscious for at least 5-10 seconds.
Lethal injection would be most painless. Failing that, a BASE jump without a parachute. Do it with a partner and count grips on the way down - the pair with the most get free funerals.
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Obvious lack of interest here. It was in the episode titled "Justice" which was in the first season of Star Trek - The Next Generation.
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well... first of all... most ways of kiling people who are condemned to death are much more humane than any "natural" or accidental death. Out of all the ones available tho.... leathal injection or firing squad are the most efficient/least painful.
I tend to go with pulic hanging minus the drop/boken neck tho so far as showmanship/entertainment value.
So far as "innocent" people being executed... well... most probly aren't so much innocent as they are not guilty of the crime they are being executed for.
Some review of standards for those being executed tho would be in order. For example...I believe that child molesters should be executed. Since they can't be cured... keeping them around is foolish.
lazs
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I do believe that some people deserve death. I am not willing to delegate that judgement to anyone.
Humans are dangerous, predatory animals. Groups of humans are dangerous, predatory animals with a limited sense of individual responsibility.
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Noone should be send to death by other humans although it may seems that he/she would deserve it.
Only people who have atleast the right to call for it are the relatives.
But a modern society are not aloud to follow their calls or were goin back to midage.
Regards Blitz