Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SirJinks on January 08, 2002, 05:21:00 AM
-
Hello everyone. I'm new to Aces High so please be gentle with me ;)
Sincere question (no flames please, just honest opinions) - I play IL2 and the general opinion in the flight community is that it is currently the nearest thing to a real sim in terms of flight modelling. How does it compare to Aces High?
Like I said, no flames please and I'm not positioning this as AH Versus IL2. I'm just curious.
-
Hello Sirjinks, first of all, Welcome to AH! Hope to see you in the Arenas soon, specially in the Combat Theater, if you're in the MA, go knight and we'll help ya with whatever you need :)
IL2 vs AH ;)
Flight modelling good in both, both gots its bad things and good things. Both flight modells actually seem pretty much the same in the "big picture". IL2 has sloted flaps for 109 (I someone say AH has them too but not visual, is it true?). Allso, IL2 has the possiblity for 109's to open their flaps in more then 175Mph. On the other hand, in IL2 there is no speed limit for flaps so you can basicly deplay them full in 500Mph without any dammage to them.
Gunnery in IL2 feels better, gunnery thing in retail IL2 is pretty much like AH only it feels better with the more realistic looking tracers. Dammage modell in IL2 is the best DM I've seen in any game, and I hope that AH can get a similair.
Once again, Flight Modell pretty much the same it feels like, presonally I like AH better then IL2 except the gunnery and dammage modelling not to say that IL2 doesn't have suport for 100+ players in multiplayer wich AH DOES.
If you're into IL2, you'll get to know AH pretty quick and soon get some kills :)
See you online!
-
Yes, the Aces High 109 has slats computed in the flight model while the visual aspect is not there- yet. Considering what you see and what is actually going on behind the scene, the slats don't have to be modelled visually for any reason other than a "hey, neat" effect.
In Il-2 you can damage you flaps if you deploy them when you are going too fast. Too bad they don't rip off, if you lowered flaps above their operating speed they would either jam or break off.
Il-2 either has a fudge factor built into the game to intentionally throw off the gunnery, or my joystick is sliding all over the place- because no matter how straight I hold my joystick the plane still likes to slip around on each axis when I'm lining up for a shot.
-SW
-
One big difference also, at least to me, is the engine heating. In Il-2 WEP is very very limited comparing to AH:s 10min in LW planes.
Il-2 feels also somewhat slower...so that you can easier follow a con in evasives...just reduce throttle and even the 109 can keep most plane's 6.
Otherwise wilbus put it right. AH's game environment is definitely better...Il-2 have some superb features, eye candy etc, and 1-on-1 game is better in Il-2. It just lacks multiplayer environment as good as AH's. Ok, Il-2 missions maybe good too :).
-
Welcome SirJinks.
Both, AH and IL2 are excelent sims.
I found both flight models really different but cant tell you which is more precisse.
What I can tell you is that landing and taking off in IL2 are a blast while in AH are extremelly easy operations. I've also found flat spins in IL2, effect that never happened to me in AH in more than two years. Damage model in IL2 is more detailed. IL2 gunnery is also impressive as well as graphics. But the primary and more clear advantage of AH over IL2 is the online play, there are no way to compare these sims as online games.
-
Swulfe, haven't noticed the flap dammage effetc, downloaded latest version and could still deploy flaps in 700Km/h while max speed acording to manual was 350. Will see again never had em dammaged though. What Janjan says about WEP is allso right, WEP in IL2 Sucks, all planes seem to have as long, specially bad when in LW fighters considering most, if not all had a wep time of 10 minutes thanks to the water methanol injection, they then had to cool the engine for 5 minutes before they could use WEP for another 10 minutes. 190 had a total WEP time of about 50 minutes with 5 min brakes between each 10 minutes.
-
I've had flaps damaged when I deployed them- atleast I think they were damaged. I couldn't retract them, but since I had the HUD messages disabled I dunno if they were in fact damaged.
-SW
-
yeah i turn all them "words" off in il2 as well but i remember lowering flaps at "higher" speeds by mistake and then raised umm again with no visible damage or noticable fm difference.
il2 is 1 st a boxed sim so the level of eye candy can be high. online play in all boxed is imho not all that fun. lag waitin around etc...
Online flight sims like ah, wb are more fun and unpredictable. Aces high has regularly an average of around 400 folks in 1 arena. You cant get that in any box sim.
also most box sims limit there planeset whereas an online continuelly adds planes and maps so if one sortie you want to fly an f4u off a carrier then the next fly 190f8 against armor you can. The ultimately becomes what ever you make it.
I own il2 and dont play it anywhere near what I play ah/wb3.......
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Wotan ]
-
Wotan, despite how good Il-2 could be or is, I'm with you- I play AH WAY more than Il-2. I play Return to Castle Wolfenstein more than I play Il-2.
-SW
-
RTCW was my home over christmass break. It does have an addictive quality. On the 1 hand it pisses me off when i die from 3 hits after unloading a full clip on some kewl dude or when i get sniped but instead of logging in disgust i go hunt their arse down......
I started playing IL2 on "All Seeing Eye". No lag at all and a bunch of filters to find just what you want.
It also support Ghost Recon OFP and RTCW plus a whole bunch of other games.
You can set it to shut down while your in game so its not running in the back ground.
In all those games All Seeing Eye is my 1st choice to play umm at......
-
"AH Versus IL2"
Won't happen. IL2 is a box game (beautiful one at that) with a limited small number of players host type of multiplayer. It is to AH or even WBIII what EAW was to WB 2.x's and AW3 four years ago.
Aces High ,which is SimHQ's Best Online Sim for 2000 and 2001, is no slouch at all and has about 400 people in the host every night with dozens in some of the other arenas.
No reason not to play both if you like them. They're as different from each other as apples are from oranges. But they're both in the fruit family :)
Westy
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
-
What is RTCW?
-
Return To Castle Wolfstein
-
Thanks LUPO, I mistake the question ... ... what and where is "All Seeing Eye"?
-
After playing over 82 missions in IL2s german fighter campaign and then installing AH to see what new there is... AH 109 felt horribly clumsy for a fighter.
Rolls like a bomber..
I think IL2 109 modelling is closer to real one than AHs ;)
(I don't believe 109 really needs full minute to do 360 roll like it does in AH)
One nice thing is the gunnery, theres no super cannons that kills the bogey with couple hits from 700 meters.
in AH gunnery is much easier than in IL2.. thats why I like IL2s gunnery, makes you less willin to waste ammo... combined with weaker hits.
Spins, flaps and gears just bugs me..
Spins seems almost unrecoverable - at least normal recovery method doesnt work, needs the own way to recover from spin.
Flaps and gears can be deployed at any speed... makes things sometimes look like the top gun and tom cruise doing his stop & go's in F14 ;)
-
I have never played IL-2, but it sounds like an incredible sim, certainly better than AH offline.
However, 200+ player online action of AH makes the flight sim experience so much more fun. CVs, GVs, boats and field guns add quite a bit as well.
eskimo
-
You have no data to prove it's a more accurate 109, but you assume.
That, and AH models a pilot pulling on the stick- Il-2 models just the stick so you aren't limited by how much a human can realistically pull the stick at any speed.
The gunnery isn't hard, and if you hit a plane in the same spot- it's going down. Just like AH. I've gotten to get single cannon shell kills by hitting planes in the wingroot.
It's all about perspective.
-SW
-
what Swulfe said.
It's all about what you get used to IMO.
Having flown AH first, I had trouble with the gunnery in IL2 at first.
No doubt, if I'd started with IL2 I might think AH was 'off'.
-
Being currently 'addicted' to IL2 I'll throw my additional dos pesos in.
IL2 models engine management better than AH. When your engine is damaged in AH it just keeps working at 100% until it suddenly dies (i.e. Keep full power going if you lose oil in AH.) In IL2 the engine starts to overheat, makes nasty grinding noises, and sometimes you can limp home at reduced throttle.
IL2's terrain is insanely gorgeous. Definitely wins over AH.
I think IL2's gunnery is somehow off. A 2 second burst at convergence range should tear a fighter apart (it does in AH) in IL2 you might damage him enough to make him crash. Might.
-
Originally posted by SWulfe:
You have no data to prove it's a more accurate 109, but you assume.
That, and AH models a pilot pulling on the stick- Il-2 models just the stick so you aren't limited by how much a human can realistically pull the stick at any speed.
That simply isn't true. In Il-2, if you slam your stick fully back in a 109G-6 at 600 km/h and then at 200km/h you'll notice that isn't true.
What comes to the 109 rollrate in AH vs Il-2...I'm quite sure it's too high at low speeds in Il-2. In AH G-2 seems to have it pretty close what I would expect OTOH G-6 has it a tad low. In finnish flight tests with G-2 4-5 second full roll (360 degree)time was achieved at 400-450 km/h. I think pretty much same time should apply to the G6. I don't have a stop watch at hand so what I said above about these two sims are just my assumptions.
--------------
1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
-
the 109s in il2 are easy to fly and the vvs aircraft are even easier.
Gunnery is just different and you have to adapt to rules.....
It takes more 20mm to kill a plane in il2 (seems like too much at times) on average then AH but I've killed planes with 1 to 3 hits before.
30mm is strange at times but normally 1 = death
The damage model is more detailed so getting your hits in the right spot is more important then just gettin pings.
Theres very little compression if at all that i have noticed the only time I notice any change in stick reponse is when im out of trim.
As fer eng management I have cowl/radiator flaps and prop pitch mapped to my hotas its just a matter of hitting a couple of buttons to keep eng running well. I should also say I fly with everything in fullreal and have all on screen text turned off so I fly by instruments. If you keep an eye on things you can manage your eng much better then waitin for the hub msg saying "Engine Overheating"
For a boxed sim its the best one. But for all the "realism" I fly much more AH because I prefer to fight a bunch of real folks then wait around in the clumsy game portals hoping to get 1 good fight out of an hour and a half of looking.
I dont see ah's 109s being clumsy. I would describe wwiiol fm as clumsy.
After a month when il2 is sitting in the cd rack with janes eaw sdoe and falcon 4 i'll still be flying AH or wb3. I just prefer "online" games to boxed ones.
I really liked eaw online more then il2 dunno why i just did.
-
both games are great,
and i agree with most of the assesments above, except engine managment. i prefer the il2 wep, each planes have different amount of time on wep depending on conditions (engine temp when wep is engaged, radiator open/closed, ect.) but in an emergency you can choose wether or not you turn off wep or let it eat your motor. i've always thought AH ought to have that option instead of the wep that automaticly turns it self off when you redline the temp.(did real planes wep auto shut down or did the pilot have to pay attention to the wear and stress he was inflicting on his engine?)
-
Pyro posted a while bac that (if I remeber correctly) that running at full military power and I believe he said wep as well reduced the number of hours of "life" a particular eng had not that it would "blow up" or be ruined be running all out in a single flight.
I have no real trouble with the eng managemnt in il2 but as wilbuz posted
Swulfe, haven't noticed the flap dammage effetc, downloaded latest version and could still deploy flaps in 700Km/h while max speed acording to manual was 350. Will see again never had em dammaged though. What Janjan says about WEP is allso right, WEP in IL2 Sucks, all planes seem to have as long, specially bad when in LW fighters considering most, if not all had a wep time of 10 minutes thanks to the water methanol injection, they then had to cool the engine for 5 minutes before they could use WEP for another 10 minutes. 190 had a total WEP time of about 50 minutes with 5 min brakes between each 10 minutes.
You just cant run 190s like that in il2.
imho the "eng management" is over done in il2.
prop pitch and cowl radiator flaps pose no real concern to again they are just a couple of more button pushed. Ils doesnt even touch fuel mixture.
-
You can drrop flaps at high speds in Il-2, but you risk jamming them. Happened to me quite a lot.
As for damage model, I started to believe in it when I sawed horizontal stab of La 5Fn with the propeller of my Fw 190A-5.
-
Agree, damage model is impressive. Yesterday I emptied my ammo into an IL2, it was literally full of holes everywhere but still not going down. Then the IL2 tried a very smooth evasive maneouver and its ailerons went away. It entered in a sallow and uncontroled dive and was loosing parts all the way til the ground.
-
I like IL-2's damage model :D
(http://members1.chello.nl/~k.determan/1091.jpg)
(http://members1.chello.nl/~k.determan/1092.jpg)
-
Engine model is strange in Il-2. No constant speed props on planes that had them. Just manual prop pitch control and an autopitch control that behaves nothing like a real constant speed prop. Weird that they would model cowl flaps and all those other details but screw up the CS prop.
You can sustain an almost vertical climb in a 109 with gear and flaps down.
Stall speeds for some planes are about half of real life stall speeds.
FM still has a nice "feel" and some speed tests show that performance is definitely "in the ballpark".
Il-2 is good but the claims that it (or any other sim) has the best FM are silly.
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
i agree with funkedup, the performance is "in the ballpark" to the point where i dont care about the little bits
the prop modelling is certainly strange, but then again aces high enbgine modelling isnt stellar either
one thing about il2 is the graphics. after playing il2, aces high looks like a the 20th century sim that it is.. its looks really havent changed THAT much from 2 years ago (apart from the newer developed plane modekls looking much better)
i am having alot of fun in il2, especially with the full misiosn builder. you can make mini scenarios then go find guinea piga on hyperlobby to play them :)
-
Originally posted by funkedup:
Stall speeds for some planes are about half of real life stall speeds.[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]
First time I though they were weird until realized IL2 uses metrical system.
[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: MANDOBLE ]
-
I played IL2 for about a month. I loved it! Great graphics, great FM and DM (visualy stunning DM) but all the little flaws the game has ruined it for me. I didn't have any "show stopper bugs" just annoying crap that takes away from the suspension of reality thingy. Online play can be fun, but it left me wanting and waiting (alot).
The best thing to me about IL2 is that it got me over my AH burnout and I've been flying AH everday for 2 weeks now :) Thanks Oleg!!! :D
-
I find IL2 hard on my machine(p3 1ghz GF2MX) and have to run it at medium resolution with clouds off and even then it runs slow.AH runs very smooth for my setup.
Damage modelling in IL2 is undermodelled like AH is overmodelled.I can live with AH uber cannons but IL2 needs to be adjusted.
Flight modelling has IL2 in a slight lead(needs compression in dives for 109's and flap damage at high speeds)Spins are what IL2 has on AH,same with challenging landings and takeoffs.
Tracer effects are cooler in IL2,looks just like war footage and is really hard to learn.
Graphics AH wins for me cause I can run it at high res.IL2 looks great up close(screen shots) but has a dullness at range.IL2 has the greatest sun effects ever modelled.
Online flying a boxed sim is a different experience altogether.Right now AH is the undisputed king of arena flying.IL2 IMHO has a ways to go before it unperches the king of boxed sims(EAW).That was flawed too when it was released but it has an X factor that spawned many great squads and perhaps my favorite WW2 combat memories.(Squad wars..ladder play)
AI IL2 is not great..EAW,BoB,Mig Alley are all better.AH AI on the otherhand has set a new standard with the release and subsequent updates of Fester-Bot.. :)
Overall I would not try to comare it to arena flying but to other winner boxed sims that can run co-op missions..<S!> and Welcome to AH.. ;)
-
I have a 1Ghz AMD Athlon, 512MB PC133 SDRAM (o/c), V5 5500, and SB Live!- I can run at 1024x768x32bit and have details set to high.
Are you running in OpenGL SirLoin? Their DirectX/D3D implementation sucks, don't use that.
-SW
-
[
Are you running in OpenGL SirLoin? Their DirectX/D3D implementation sucks, don't use that.
-SW[/QB][/QUOTE]
Useful tip. Thanks. IMHO IL2 looks nice but haven't found anything to compare with AH sunrise/sunset for atmosphere.
-
TJay, I stay away from comparing Aces High/WarBirds/WWIIOl with things like CFSII/Il-2/EAW/SDOE/etc simply because they do two completely different things.
That said, both Aces High and Il-2 are visually superb to suspend belief and allow for hours of entertainment. Both have flight models that are, IMO, the best on the market. Naturally both aren't 100% replications of the real world, but they are both damn good.
I enjoy them both, but Aces High more because it's sole intention is for online play and thus is the best at it.
-SW
-
Thanks for all the replies guys (and gals?). Very interesting reading.
-
Sorry Mandoble
Heres a link to All Seeing Eye (http://www.udpsoft.com/eye/)
its like kali or any gameportal you can register it or not (most I talk to there haven't well past their 1 month free)
-
The best thing in IL2 : GUNNERY
The worst thing in AH : GUNNERY
Bye
Lucchini
-
The Il-2 in Aces High is great for killing GVs and surprising fighters expecting an easy kill. Oh wait, that's not what this thread is about. :D
both are excellent sims, IMHO. Il-2 really demands cutting edge hardware to run though, while AH runs acceptably on 2 year old machines. Il-2 is unplayably slow on my 1.4GHz T-bird with GeForce SDR, but with the same machine and GF3 Ti500, it rocks. Too bad I had to return my GF3 so I could afford to buy my family xmas presents. :D
-
S!
I have played IL-2 quite a while now after I had to take a break in AH. Both sims are good in what they are designed for:giving entertainment. I wouldn't compare AH/IL2 too much since they have totally different coding and approach on the subject.
Where AH shines in viewing system, IL2 has the better landings/take-offs etc. It's a matter of what You prefer and want from a game. I fly AH for the MMPOG and IL-2 for the IOW(IL2 OnlineWar). We would get the best sim ever by taking the best part of both and combining them.
-
Originally posted by Stain
TJay, I stay away from comparing Aces High/WarBirds/WWIIOl with things like CFSII/Il-2/EAW/SDOE/etc simply because they do two completely different things.
That said, both Aces High and Il-2 are visually superb to suspend belief and allow for hours of entertainment. Both have flight models that are, IMO, the best on the market. Naturally both aren't 100% replications of the real world, but they are both damn good.
I enjoy them both, but Aces High more because it's sole intention is for online play and thus is the best at it.
-SW
Agreed!