Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on January 20, 2003, 08:41:00 AM
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... as literature, generally. It makes entertaining films, but generally it's crap in book form.
Now, I base this opinion on reading many books as a kid - Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, Frank Herbert etc.
There's been some great sci-fi, some of my favourite books are 2001, Rendez-vous with Rama, Dune and Red Mars. Mainly because they weave contemporary issues and situations into another world - they leave you thinking a little differently than when you started reading. But there's so much trash in between the great books, I got completely turned off by it, especially when I started reading straight fiction.
Recently, I was given 'Complicity' by Iain Banks by a friend. She really enjoyed it so I checked it out. It was a superb thriller, and I couldn't put it down. So I checked out the other books he had written - and it turns out he's done alot of sci-fi. So I bought a couple of his books, in the hope they were as good as Complicity. I wasn't disappointed. 'Use of Weapons' is amazing. It's kind of lke Star Trek but without the rubbish 'non-intervention' attitude the Federation displays. 'The Culture' is one massive collective, who's members are pleasure-seeking, futuristic gadget-freaks. They have a huge spy network subverting the development of lesser worlds to achieve a happy ending and eventual membership to the 'The Culture'. Like I say, they are the anti-thesis of Picard and his lycra-clad tards.
Anyone else read Banks' stuff? Not sure if his stuff is available in the States.
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Originally posted by Dowding
... as literature, generally. It makes entertaining films, but generally it's crap in book form.
We couldn't disagree more. The percentage of sci-fi films that are entertaining is far less than books.
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Dunno Dowding, I really loved Clarke's "Songs from Distant Earth"... I'm not a big fan of Sci-fi literature, and Asimov puts me to sleep, but there are some books definitely worth reading.
Daniel
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Asimov puts me to sleep
Daniel
heretic! ;)
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you have to go with the 'killer B's
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There are some great books - but Asimov's Foundation series is just a series of very dull books. :) Except for Prelude to Foundation, which was actually ok.
Ever read the Rama series past the first book? They are atrocious - apparently Arthur C Clarke didn't even write the latter ones.
The Dune series of books rapidly falls away in quality after the first two books (Dune is the best of the lot).
I just find alot of authors spend too much time on the sci-fi aspect, rather than getting the basics of plot and character development in place. They tend to rely on the fact that their readership is 'into' what they are writing, and become a little lazy with the writing. But I suppose you could level that at most kinds of 'serial' fiction.
Anyway, if you want to read a good book, I recommend Iain M. Banks' work, particularly 'Consider Phlebas', 'Excession', 'Against a Dark Background' and 'Use of Weapons'. His best straight books, are 'Complicity', 'The Wasp Factory' and 'The Crow Road'. :)
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Dowding I'm chuffed that you are into Banks.
Oh Man, Iain.M.Banks the Sci Fi Author makes no bones about his stuff being space opera, but boy can he make worlds leap off the page.
With a breathtaking disregard for humans, a great many of his books are set in the universe dominated by the culture, a loose hegemony of humans and minds. The minds run the show, humans are just for literary interest really. His skill at presenting the reader with unimaginable vistas in their mind's eye is admirable, but is as nothing to the effect his writing has when he puts you in the mind of a drone (an intelligent droid) at the begining of Excession. The whole chapter covers about 2 seconds of battle, but lasts for 30 pages - you really feel like you have b
You gotta get into Excession, The player of Games, Look to windward, Feersum Enjinn (not a culture novel but v.good). Use of weapons, consider phlebas etc were his earlier SF books, and he's a lot more engaged with his characters than he used to be back then. I find some of his early SF to be too coldly unemtional even for me.
The Culture is so much more than the federation. The culture has some really interesting attitudes that defy easy pigeonholing.
The wasp factory was a cracker ('literary nasty' - Daily Mail), and Walking On Glass, The Bridge and The Crow Road are all gripping, disturbing and compelling books. The Song Of Stone, Inversions and the Business are not very good, best to read someone elses copy IMO.
There is a broad gap between the 'rockets and blasters' brigade of SF and the more thoughtful stuff, and yet another gulf between that and the non-genre fiction that ends up in SF because no-one knows where to put it, I speak mainly of J.G.Ballard of course, High Rise, Crash, Wind from Nowhere, War Fever, The Crystal World and so on and so forth. A great writer often ignored because his work is not easily classifiable.
Another Great British writer of finest SF is Jeff Noon. If you've not enjoyed Vurt, Pollen, Nymphomation, Needle in the Groove, Automated Alice or his short stories, then you have so much to look forward to!
heh and yeah, if the federation ever ran across the culture, they would run screaming!
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Cool Bounder. :)
Song of Stone made me feel ill. It's just so barbaric in a weird, surreal way that I was glad it ended. Couldn't stop reading it though - an unpleasant experience. And I've never been squeamish, I think it was because the characters were all degraded, perverted people.
Complicity is probably my favourite - the coke snorting, spliff smoking journo is such a great character. I've always liked flawed heros.
The Business was poor - I couldn't get even a 1/3 of the way through without shelving it.
Whit was ok, but a little dull. I'm not interested in obscure Scottish cults.
The Crow Road was turned into a TV drama. In fact I watched it before I read the book, without realising it. I was reading the scene where the husband is climbing through the roof space and spies his wife shagging the chauffeur and got a strong sense of deja vu. :)
Yeah, the Culture would kick the Federation's bellybutton into next week along with those Borg things.
Actually, the Culture are kind of like a vision of a Comunistic utopia - everyone is equal, everyone has everything they want. Altruism is possible because resources are limitless. Seemed like a cool society to live. I also dig, the Special Circumstances espionage side of it. Very James Bond with far better gadgets and a lot more edgier.
You read his latest one, Bounder? 'Dead Air'?
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No, I haven;t read Dead air Yet (just found out about it in your post - out in softback yet?)
The thing I like most about the culture are the Minds. Often embedded in planetoid sized ships like the GSV Sleeper Service with a crew of many tens of thousands. These ships use Enterprise sized starships as runabouts and shuttles - and they are all built on board to spec. The sleeper service that went rogue and decided to become a spaceborne safari park.
I particularly liked his names for the Ships.
Frank Exchange of Views
Grey Area (Meat F*cker)
Sleeper Service
The Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival
Serious Callers Only
Not Invented Here
Attitude Adjuster
Jaundiced Outlook
Shoot them Later
and
Rapid Offensive Unit classes: Abominator, Torturer, Gangster, Inquisitor, Killer, Psychopath & Thug.
Dowding, have you looked at Jeff Noon at all?
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Read "The Berserker Wars" or anything in the Berserker series by Fred Saberhagen.
I'm partial to Sword and Sorcery myself. Fritz Leiber is one of the best, especially his "Fahred and the Grey Mouser" series.
Regards, Shuckins
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I love the ship names. Funny and weird. Imagine them in a modern day setting:
"This is HMS In Anticipation of a New Lover's arrival. Requesting permission to lay alongside USS Frank Exchange of Views." :D
I'll check out Jeff Noon - any recommendations?
Dead Air is about the aftermath of the WTC attacks. Has received mixed reviews. I haven't read it yet - waiting for paperback addition.
I'll have a look into that Shuckins.
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sci fi has saved more cornered minds than prozac ever will, while educating (in a hit and miss fashion) in high science. i honestly believe i owe my (in a hit and miss fashion) sanity to it. futhermore once you start reading, anything really you never stop till your dead.
and what is a spliff?
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sci-fi as literature... sucks?
Try these books you may like them:
Neuromancer (and mostly anything else by William Gibson)
Going for Infinity (a compilation of short stories, most very good)
1984 (big brother is watching you amazinhunk)
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I've read 1984 - it certainly isn't sci-fi. It's a future historical social commentary. :)
A spliff is a joint.
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The Deathstalker series by Simon Green.
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Excession and Consider Phlebas are my 2 favorite Banks books; I couldn't really get into Use Of Weapons as easily. I probably liked Excession more, cos of the ship names, but I've never read and reread a book like C P before - specifically the section based on the pirate ship.
Lots of good game idea potential there ;)
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David Gerrold's 4 books of planned 7 about an alien biology planting itself on earth. The first wave of microbes kills about 99% of the worlds population, then the creatures start appearing.
Interesting read.
HC^2
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I disagree as well. Sci-Fi makes great reading... but not so great watching.
Clarke is king, IMHO. Even 3001 was good.
Dune series was good (cough).
1984 is sci-fi? I dunno, but stay tuned for the minute of hate.
Nothing on TV short of Star Wars holds any of my attention... Star Trek is way to corney and all the shows they run on the Sci-Fi channel are embarressing.
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hyperion was cool... actually the latest Foundation books are good (not Clarke though)
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Jeff Noon writes books set in manchester loosely based around the same near future time period. His style is loose with language and very inventive, thick with thought provoking neologisms and nomenclature.
Manchester is inhabited by people, ghosts (smoke), dogs, and combinations of all of those (the Fecundity Incident). People put 'feathers' in their mouth for shared dreamspace experience (vurt). Coloured feathers are all different, Pink for Porno, Blue for friendly, Red for Aggressive, Black for snuff and watch out for curious yellow, the meta feather. Feathers are like drugs and a similar subculture arises around them. Their origin is a mystery and they turn grey and spent after you have used them only once.
Game Cat is the pirate DJ who advises on feathers and tells the game kittens what's what. He knows the secrets of Curious Yellow and Miss Alice (yes, that alice) Hobart. The powers that be want him silenced.
Vurt, Pollen and Nymphomation are his most accessible novels to date. Automated Alice is a masterpiece, but unless you like the prose of The Late Great Rev. Dodson (Lewis Carroll) you won't like it much - also set in Manchester.
Needle in the groove is a fabulous book written as song lyrics. Story seems to be autobiographical, and revolves around a new liquid recording medium, which gives a whole new meaning to Mixing Down a Track. The story becomes interesting when they start injecting their mixes.
Of them all Pollen is my runaway favourite, the Tale of Boda the X-Cabber who falls in love with a Dog-Boy maverick taxi driver. Vurt is good too (I want nano-sham! and Vaz) and is his first - the tale of scribble who has lost his sister to the vurt and in exchange is now the de facto guardian of some strange vurt beast. A story full of robo-weilers, dog gangs, fractal bullets and inpho rays.
Nymphomation is all about what happens when numbers have sex. If you think that sounds bizarre you should read the book. Maths meets Sex meets Gambling in Manchester. You discover the origin of Vurt and Alice and why Dominos are more important than you think. Also showcases the invention of Vaz, by Jaz.
These are the most original SF to be published in the UK by a homegrown writer for some time. I can't recommend them highly enough.
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Dowding/AKIron - would you believe - I had dinner with Azimov's niece in San Francisco a few years ago. :)
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Cool Beet1e, Asimov is definitely one of my favorites, Foundation series included. Was truly a sad day when he died.
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If you like sci-fi at all, you should read Poul Anderson. I have read everything he authored from short storys to novels from his early fantasy to his much more prolific sci-fi.
Nuff said.
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I'm reading "The Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy", the complete edition. It's a great book, but I don't know if it can be classified as science-fiction, it's too funny and deep for that.
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I'm telling ya that if you liked Foundation, the follow up trilogy blows it away...(by permission of the Asimov estate)
Bova (and the other 2 B's.. can't remember right now)
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try some vonnegut
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Dowding you read Neal Stephenson's books?
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All of the above (must re-read Dan Simmons). Plus Ender's Game, Starship Troopers (I lost all interest in the movie when they left out the powered armour).
I remember a compilation by Asimov of short stories that he used to read as an aspiring writer, intermingled with autobiographical notes, and then his first ones, continuing the autobiography. Was very nice to read
And Harry Harrison's "Bill, the Galactic Hero" is hilarious. I remember reading those in the public library, I started laughing pretty loud, to the amusement of the rest of readers there.
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Beetle - is she fit? ;)
No, Funked - haven't read any of his stuff.
I've tended to avoid sci-fi for a while now. I read Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy recently and thought it was excellent - except for the daft 70s sci-fi language.
I tend to pick up an author and read everything by him, or at least as much as I can cheaply get my hands on. I've been going through the greats in contemporary fiction - Orwell and Hemingway. Last year, I bought all the books written by Raymond Chandler and read them. The descriptions of life in 40s/50s LA were excellent.
I find Sci-fi authors often take an idea, and absolutely milk it to death. Arthur C Clarke did this with both 2001 and Rama (3001 was a poor shadow of 2001 - it was as stale as last week's bread). Herbert did it with Dune. Asimov did it with the foundation series - his best book, IMO, was a one-off - Nightfall (I think that's what it was called). About a planet with 3 suns which has a perpetual day, that suffers an eclipse and the effect on the civilisation.
Takeda - I remember reading some of Harry Harrison's stuff as a kid. It was very funny. :)
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"No, Funked - haven't read any of his stuff. "
Well get with the program!!!
Cryptonomicon is the best novel I've read, ever.
Get Snow Crash and The Diamond Age too.
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lol I'll add it to the list. I'll goto the library and check out the books there first - I'm a miser and don't like to buy books I might not like. :D
Thanks for suggestions though! :)
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If you like Space Operas read "The Night's Dawn Trilogy" by english writer Peter F. Hamilton (3x900 pages!, the end is a bit weak but the 1st book is impossible to put down).
Another good book from him is "Fallen Dragon".
His latest book is crap :(
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Hitchhikers Guide is the ultimate sci-fi. If it can be called that. Whatever it is, it is the ulitmate of that. That being what it is. Yes.
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Downbelow Station and The Faded Sun trilogy by CJ Cherryh are just about my favorite SciFi books.
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Originally posted by deSelys
If you like Space Operas read "The Night's Dawn Trilogy" by english writer Peter F. Hamilton (3x900 pages!, the end is a bit weak but the 1st book is impossible to put down).
Another good book from him is "Fallen Dragon".
His latest book is crap :(
I read one of his series, don't remember which, may have been the one you mentioned. Started off great, lotta original ideas. Ended with me wondering what the hell happened to those ideas. He's not on my list of authors to read anymore.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I'm actually reading The Reality Dysfunction now, the first book in the Night's Dawn trilogy. I'm not happy about hearing how the end is weak, but the first book is good so far. Hamilton can't compete with Dan Simmons storytelling though. Not by a longshot.
Unfortunate, but true regarding Hamilton's ending. Rather ridiculous, really. However, he does lay down a lot of neat ideas back-to-back, so it's worth the read. Most people couldn't deal with the obscene, sadistic sexual thread in the series, but if you can get by that you'll enjoy it.
Now, Simmons, he can lay down a tale :)
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Originally posted by leonid
Unfortunate, but true regarding Hamilton's ending. Rather ridiculous, really. However, he does lay down a lot of neat ideas back-to-back, so it's worth the read. Most people couldn't deal with the obscene, sadistic sexual thread in the series, but if you can get by that you'll enjoy it.
Now, Simmons, he can lay down a tale :)
If you can get by the obscene and sadistic try Stephen F. Donaldson's Gap series. Pretty hard core but I liked it nonetheless.
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Funked you liked Snow Crash..really...
I did make it through it..but I dont know if I could recomend it to anyone.