Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vulcan on July 24, 2000, 05:37:00 PM
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So now we've all stopped tearing each others buttholes out and are kissing up... when we gonna try again?
p.s. could you make it either earlier (one or two hours) or on Sat cos I had to take Monday off work for the last one (GMT+12 here, or EST+17).
p.p.s I think there should be no merge in the next one, just refs call go when everyone formed up at 15k, 10 miles from each other.
cheers
-vlkn-
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Only four words from RAM:
Dont count ON me.
( (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) happy vulcan? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Yeah, I'd like to give this another go too.
Perhaps we change things up a bit. Still Axis vs Allied... but give each side 2-3 fields and a certain choice of planes. The winner is the first side that captures a field.
We'd definitly need to stick to the KISS principle. If one could design an easily understandable ROE in about 5 sentences it would have much more success imho.
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Still think, 2 or 3 fields per side, and first side to land 150% of the starting plane count per side wins or most kills in 90 min which ever comes first.
Both sides start on the ground, in the tower. roster is closed 5 min befor. Respawns are ok.
Would be cool if channel 1 and host messages could be disabled in the arenas so you could not see the kill totals accumulating.....no heckling either.
he he.
Chaprone> CEASE FIRE UNLOAD!
Chaprone> No kills count, All players RTB.
Capt America> who won?
The Skull> Ja hoo von...?
Green Lantern> I think The Rino outlasted me before pulling his chute...sorry Cap.
Rino> I zink that Green Lantern out lasted me befor pulling his chute...forgive me heer Skull....
Capt America> No nead to apologize Lantern..we fought the good fight...
The Skull> sound of Walther PPK chambering round..All is forgiven Rino.....
Chaprone>....Congrats to the BLLLEEEEEPPP they have won due to achieving 18 kills in a time of 38 minites. The BLEEEP needed 1 more kill for the victory. Would the captains like to take a 20 min break for a debrief or start another round in 20 minites?
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Im in!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I'm in!!! I'll prove to you all that bees, bumblebees, hornets, mosquitoes, horseflies,etc... in short all the small flying critters are vastly superior to you lowly mammals...
We don't need no stinking ponies or crapula 190's... WE'VE GOT WINGS OF OUR OWN... (sets of two or four... buy them at your local wallmart)...
You wanna talk icons or no icons... go ahead boys... we've got eyes a quazillion of them...who needs icons...
Cannons... .50's pfffff... lameass machinery... I tell you guys the new 'mode' is 'Aux Naturel'... new shiny needlesharp stings... sticking right out ya're bellybutton ready to hurt!!!!
PS: I also have this flashy camopaint in yellow and black stripes... trust me it drives the galls nuts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously tho... I'm ready to rumble my friends (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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BEE(JENG)
VMF 323 "Death Rattlers"
CLICK ->>> VMF 323 "Death Rattlers" (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache/index.htm/)
(http://nottosc.tripod.com/109bee.gif)
'Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'
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Originally posted by RAM:
Only four words from RAM:
Dont count with me.
Be there or I'll slap you... and it's "Don't count on me" (sort of reminds me of something out of Faulty Towers.... Manuel!!!! <SLAP> ).
-vlkn-
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I'd love to do that again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
What do you say we switch sides after the fite?
That way everyone gets to ride their favorite uberplane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Ding
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Be sure to e-mail me the time you pick so I can double-check the calendar.
Also, pay attention to these sites when scheduling events-
http://www.ropescourse.org/snapshot.htm (http://www.ropescourse.org/snapshot.htm)
and
http://www.hpcisp.com/~kieren/calendar/calendar.htm (http://www.hpcisp.com/~kieren/calendar/calendar.htm)
We also will want to get a CM there to watch your event, so the sooner you set this up, the better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 07-24-2000).]
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If we *did* do something like this again... Would there be any reason we couldn't just go with all Allied planes vs all Axis planes? How about all German vs all American?
I'm not gonna waste my time thinkin' about the pros and cons of such a thing, cuz y'all are gonna come up with more meaningful opinions on it than I ever could.
In my opinion, something like this would open the event up to more people that may not have participated due to having little experience with the limited 2 planes in the last duel.
But I bet there's a snag... Lets hear it.
-----edit-------
And I also vote that we give Hang and Hristo the lead on this. Uhm... Think about it.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 07-24-2000).]
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Originally posted by Nash:
If we *did* do something like this again... Would there be any reason we couldn't just go with all Allied planes vs all Axis planes? How about all German vs all American?
I'm not gonna waste my time thinkin' about the pros and cons of such a thing, cuz y'all are gonna come up with more meaningful opinions on it than I ever could.
In my opinion, something like this would open the event up to more people that may not have participated due to having little experience with the limited 2 planes in the last duel.
But I bet there's a snag... Lets hear it.
-----edit-------
And I also vote that we give Hang and Hristo the lead on this. Uhm... Think about it.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 07-24-2000).]
There's a snag. The luftwobbles won't go for it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
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"Head on's suck." -- Chuck Yeager
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Gents.. this sounds like fun! I'd love to get in it.
However; to avoid any possible slight chance of a potentialy dangerous personality flare-up; I'd have to refuse any role of any kind. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Thanks tho.. I'll watch with great intrest; and hop aboard when it's safe to do so... at some future date.
Rumble 1 woulda been a great learning experience and just plain fun as hell regardless of outcome if Hristo and I didn't have so damn much baggage piled on the outcome; and frankly either one of our presences in a susequent LW vs Allied rumble would instantly imperil it's perception by the community at large. Very sad.. but true.
Several guys come to mind for leadership of the LW's team.. Dingy and Udie can be counted upon to keep it on a straight track and avoid any politicly charged claptrap being touted as part of it. For the allied side I'd suggest Ripsnort or Jihad in the lead.. damn fine groups they are developing now and they are both good at organising and disseminating info. I think they can also be counted on to do their damndest to keep the crap from starting ala Rumble 1. TOAD would also be a great choice.. but his time is limited and his schedule can be a bear.. he's a commercial pilot and is often away..
Anyhow.. I'll watch with great intrest these developments in getting the Rumbles goin.. good core group; and I think there's plenty of intrest for it.
Good luck gents.. shout if I can help!
Hang
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<S> Hang (damn.. my arm is gettin' tired)
LW:
Dingy or Udie
Allied:
Ripsnort or Jihad
Step up gentlemen.
We'll iron out the details as we go... Baby steps here.
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Can I fly Big Blue if so I'm in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Nope...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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bah..if i paint it white am I in??
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We gotta open up the plane set a bit more on this run I reckon.
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No reason they can't roll out an IJN/USN Rumble is there??
Mitsu and Torque.. can u imagine?? as Ammo would say.. "Oh My!!"
I'll gladly ref that one.. the view would be priceless. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 07-25-2000).]
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Been reading "The Jolly Rogers" by Tom Blackburn who had VF-17.
Man, they had some great furballs up near Rabaul in F4U-1A vs Zekes.
Could be interesting. Think about one like that using our -1D and the Zeke.
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HA would be glad to form on Torques wing if we have a MIGHTY BLUE against tiny slightly sickish green rice paper plane rumble (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mitsu is one scarey dude mank!
I know F4uC was late model but did any Ds see any worthy engagements to recreate? sorry i'm a dweeb on this...doh
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If times right (Euro), I am IN! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
How about that 109F4 - SpitVb thingy?
Maik
<JG54 Grünherz>
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Here's my suggestion for the next Rumble rules: http://www.hut.fi/u/vpitkane/LLv34/34vs5/duelrules.htm (http://www.hut.fi/u/vpitkane/LLv34/34vs5/duelrules.htm)
Those are the rules that we used in our LLv34 vs 5 GIAP duel some time ago. Here's the first part of the "engagement plan", in all its simpleness:
Engagement plan:
-Both teams form up and grab 15k over their base
-Icons must be turned off at this point
-All pilots turn film on at this point, off when frame over
-both teams call "ready at 15k"
-teams head for eachother at 15k until at dot range
-> teams can not begin maneuvering / climbing before dot range
-one plane per pilot per frame - replaning forbidden
I tried to write the rules so that there is no room for "interpreting". With some tweaking maybe this could be used as a base for the ROE?
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
Be there or I'll slap you... and it's "Don't count on me" (sort of reminds me of something out of Faulty Towers.... Manuel!!!! <SLAP> ).
-vlkn-
I wonder if RAM could record a WAV file for us... we could use it for the troops dropping sound..
RAM - record this:
"I am RAM, from Barcelona !!!"
<g,d,r>
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Bilbao, you fool, Bilbao, not Barcelona (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<G,D,R>
BTW sorry but I'm outta the rumble. Have had enough with this one.
If the second goes OK then I'll think in taking part on the third. But for now I'm out.
(GRRRRR FDSKI (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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I'll take RAMS place as the first to get shot down...
catch me at kwood2@cfl.rr.com
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WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"
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Hey RAM check this out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.mucheswarbirds.com/image90.jpg)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Du bist kaput (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Camo,
Um... define "dot range"... who's dot range?
These are the details that can cause problems.
It would be best to either forget about altitude limits, or do as was suggested in another thread, pick a quadrant or two and call those as "open". IE line everybody up in the adjecent quadrants at 15k, then call "go" and as soon as you cross into the square anything goes.
The best idea IMHO is to start everybody on the ground... no limits. Everybody must be OTR with film running when GO is called. After that, those that survive win. You can disable re-planes and forbid folks to exit a certain area. I would also set a time limit on it... a far-out one, but something to keep folks from trying the "take a pony with full fuel and run until they are all out of gas" trick.
How's this sound?:
Both teams form up OTR at designated field.
All pilots must turn film on before "roll" is called.
All pilots must stay within a specified area.
Replanes will not be allowed.
Time limit of 30 minutes.
Anybody see a way to "game" this? I can see two possible ways. Fuel and Ack.
Hopefully the time limit will discourage the fuel game. The time could be changed if desired.
One side could TRY and hug ack I guess... but I don't think this would be a great tactic. If you dive down low enough to be in ack, you are in serious toejam anyway and they will eventually get you.
Comments?
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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That sounds great to me Lephturn and Camo. No hot/cold pass - so no merge distinctions to be made. Fights on when roll is called... anything goes after that.
I *think* ack can be turned off. Just throw the switch on ack at the same time ya throw the no re-up switch. Not sure...
Is there a ceiling though? And regarding the fuel issue, is there anything we could do to discourage that kind of tactic (let them come to us, we'll play cat and mouse till they drop)? Perhaps we find a suitable area of the map with a landmark in the middle. All planes should make a good faith effort to be near it within' a certain time from rolling.
I dunno... but lets make this one bullet proof. Keep em comin'.
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Originally posted by fd ski:
Hey RAM check this out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.speetdweebXIV.com/image90.jpg[IMG]
[img]http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Du bist kaput (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sorry Fdski...in SpeetdweebXIV.com there is no picture (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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This looks quite workeable to me.
I'm not too worried about Ack. In order to ack hug you have to be low, so if one side wants to hug ack they can fill their boots. I'll gladly brave the ack if I've got a 10k cushion to work and a 1/2 hour to BnZ 'em. Turning ack off would simplify the issue though.
One thing to add... a dress rehearsal. There should be a full-up rehearsal one week before the fight. Teams would be expected to try to win the rehearsal as best they can. The idea would be just to get everybody comfortable and test the ROE, see how it works. The next week you could run the real deal.
Hmmm... think what we could do with a terrain editor. Wow... a special dueling terrain with just 2 fields... possiblities.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Only thing I wonder about is the starting at ground level and climb rate of the various planes.
Depending on the starting distance apart, a really quick climber could grab hard and be in a superior position that could not easily be reversed.
If you start at some medium alt, the slower climbing plane at least has some way to get Energy quickly.
Just a thought.
[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 07-25-2000).]
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For the sake of argument, if you start at nearby fields, go on the runway, then yell roll, you could say "climb for 5 minutes and turn". Specify 180 degree different directions on climbout.
In the case of the 190A5 and the P51D, the 5 minute climb more-or-less negates the 190's initial climb advantage and the P51's later climb advantage. What you wind up with is an average climb. This also rewards the side that can get their butts in gear more efficiently.
Maybe 5 minutes isn't the right number, but you get the idea. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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maybe FW against Pony Kieren .. how about other plane matchups ?
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
Um... define "dot range"... who's dot range?
These are the details that can cause problems.
Each side was formed up (as the rules say), so both sides came into dot range at the same time.
Like you probably noticed, we played the duel without icons. Therefore, the fight was on when you could see the other side's planes. In dot range, in other words.
It is more realistic, imho, to be able to manuever before the merge. By insuring that both sides are at 15k and then turning into eachother, you get the needed co-E situation. As soon as you see your enemy, you can begin maneuvering. In our case, we bracketed before the merge. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It would be best to either forget about altitude limits, or do as was suggested in another thread, pick a quadrant or two and call those as "open". IE line everybody up in the adjecent quadrants at 15k, then call "go" and as soon as you cross into the square anything goes.[/b]
Yes, this is basically what we did. Except the criteria was not a quadrant, but dot range.
The best idea IMHO is to start everybody on the ground... no limits. Everybody must be OTR with film running when GO is called. After that, those that survive win. You can disable re-planes and forbid folks to exit a certain area. I would also set a time limit on it... a far-out one, but something to keep folks from trying the "take a pony with full fuel and run until they are all out of gas" trick.[/b]
A good idea otherwise, but like you said it will bring other problems. I solved this in my rules with "stay in formation, don't maneuver before within dot range".
A duel must be started with both teams in equal energy states, imho. Both start at 15k, and when ready, head towards eachother.
Good ideas, keep em coming! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Camo