Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunthr on January 23, 2003, 05:57:55 PM
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The issue is before us.
I bring this topic forward because all Americans will be asked to form an opinion. What is yours?
I will start it off by saying that blacks in this country may have a basis for a legal claim. Think about how an award by the Supreme Court of tax dollars to Black Americans might affect you. Is it morally right? Can we do it and possibally put the racial discrimination problem to rest?
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Gunther
Why is this before us?
It is a dead issue. Why should I have to pay these jerks a dime? All my relitives imagrated here way after slavery.
They need to get over the "we were opressed" crap and get on with there lives.
When I say they I mean the people who want this not all Black people. So do not start with your a racist cause you used the word "They"
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GtoRa2, the issue is far from dead. It is gaining momentum. The movement for Reparations to Black Americans is really not so far removed from Affirmative Action, which is now accepted by about half of Americans - I'm not sure on the number. And there are precedents; Japanese Americans were paid reparations for financial loses during WWII.
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GtoRa2, the issue is far from dead. It is gaining momentum.
No doubt about it. And you know all the public schools are indoctrinating kids with the idea that America will never be cleansed of the crime of slavery until reparations are paid. When these kids reach voting age there will probably be enough support to pass some kind of reparations bill. The US tax payer gets hosed once again, and no one is better off but some lawyers and bureuacrats.
ra
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Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks is a Bad Idea for Blacks - and Racist Too
By David Horowitz
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2001
One
There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery
Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?
Two
There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits
The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.
Three
Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them
Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?
Four
America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery
The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?
Five
The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury
The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?
Six
The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination
No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites ( and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?
Seven
The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.
The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?
Eight
Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid
Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?
Nine
What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?
Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?
Ten
The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom
Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.
For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.
America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.
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LOL, here we go again....
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Originally posted by Gunthr
I will start it off by saying that blacks in this country may have a basis for a legal claim.
No claim whatsoever.
Think about how an award by the Supreme Court of tax dollars to Black Americans might affect you. Is it morally right?
No, it would a theft.
Can we do it and possibally put the racial discrimination problem to rest?
No, those race pimps will never go away. If anything, giving them anything will just encourage them to demand more.
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Main Entry: rep·a·ra·tion
Pronunciation: "re-p&-'rA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin reparation-, reparatio, from Latin reparare
Date: 14th century
1 a : a repairing or keeping in repair b plural : REPAIRS
2 a : the act of making amends, offering expiation, or giving satisfaction for a wrong or injury b : something done or given as amends or satisfaction
3 : the payment of damages : INDEMNIFICATION; specifically : compensation in money or materials payable by a defeated nation for damages to or expenditures sustained by another nation as a result of hostilities with the defeated nation -- usually used in plural
............................. ............................. ............................. .........
The basis of the push for reparations is based on the following:
In 1865 General William Tecumseh Sherman made the infamous promise of forty acres and a mule to thousands of freed slaves, a promise which was promptly rescinded by Andrew Jackson when President Lincoln was assassinated.
O.K., the government should calculate the total number of slaves present in the US in 1865, multiply that number and the cost of forty acres and a mule in 1865 and divide the pot between all descendants of slaves present in the country now.
They can each buy a Coke with their 50 cents.....after all, fair is fair.....right?
Almost sounds like a Bush "stimulus" package. :D
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my family never owned slaves, and did not become rich on the "free" labor of slaves, that is why i am poor today, so i figure the govt owes my family money because we never took advantage of "free" slave labor and amassed a fortune, i think my familys loss is about $783,294.27....., more or less.
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I feel that everyone decended from someone brought from africa as a slave deserves an optional 1 way first class ticket back to the african naiton of thier choice.
Nobody deserves to be rewarded or punished for things that didn't happen to them, or that they didn't do. However, I do feel that those over here through no fault of thier ancestors should be allowed to go back to africa, paid for by the US Govt.
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Yawn!
Old argument!
The same people who claim we owe them something because we are white and they aren't are the same ones that claim we won't let racism die.
I put it in the same category as the people who are suing McDonalds because their kids are fat.
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I want reparations doled out from all the families that have ever had a member committ a horible crime.
Even though I myself havent been the victim of a major crime, I need reparations for my ancesters that have been victimized by criminals in the past.
I expect compensation for my great grandfather being murdered by a Mexican immigrant.
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Geez not again.
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maybe the distribution of reparations will be the platform the dumbcrats run on in 04 :)
"we promise you More in '04"
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Hmmm, so it looks like no one is for reperations on this bbs...again.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Hmmm, so it looks like no one is for reperations on this bbs...again.
In my post I thought I made it clear that I am for reparations.
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Maybe it's an issue in Florida. They've done some silly things in the past.
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what? someone not get there welfare check???
The welfare system is reperation as far as im concerned.
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well,,some people would just like to get free money,,thats all it is,,,do you see the african americans asking africa for money?<~~sence they were the ones who sold them to us,,heck no you dont,,because they wanna blame white people instead of there own,,,people seem to forget the zulu's were some of the biggest slave traders in the world and so were alot of tribes in africa
anyone ever lisin to the black avenger on am radio? that guy will tell you how it is,,,and he is black man,, like he said,,are own people were slave traders,,but you dont see all the black americans tring to go back to africa to kick there butt and get money out of them do ya?,,,nope you sure dont,,because they got it a mite site better here in the states then in africa,,like i said,,its just people tring to get money for free
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The movement for Reparations to those of African descent is not particular to the USA... it is world-wide. When the United Nations convenes the World Conference Against Racism in this coming August 2003, the issue will no doubt be discussed.
A lot of Americans do not believe this is a serious issue - and view this as just a bunch of militant blacks in America, shaking that old money tree to see what will drop out...
However, the idea of Reparations is being taken quite seriously by the rest of the world...
Reportedly, There is international and national agreement among reparations supporters and advocates on five basic principles:
(a) That there occurred a mass kidnapping, sale and transport of over 20 million Africans from the continent to the New World between 1445-1875, which enriched Western and European countries, while it simultaneously impoverished affected African areas;
(b) That that process, variously called the Trans-atlantic Slave Trade, the Middle Passage, the Triangular Trade, inter alia, was a "crime against humanity" that must be reconciled (A "crime against humanity, as defined by the charter of the Nuremburg Tribunal, is "Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population...whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country here perpetrated.");
(c) That no compensation was ever paid by the Western and European perpetrators of that "crime" to the direct sufferers nor to their descendants;
(d) That the dire consequences and legacy of that "crime" continue to negatively impact Africa and the Diaspora (e.g., persistent continental African poverty and underdevelopment, and Jim Crowism and other forms of racial discrimination in the Diaspora); and
(e) Reparations in some form, including apologies, are due from the existing governments of those countries who were "unjustly enriched" by their participation in the slave trade and in the enslavement of Africans in the Diaspora.
( Diaspora = "dispersion of an originally homogenious group")
Mietla, you assert that there is no legal claim for Reparations whatsoever. I'm no attorney, but I think it could be argued that there are legal precedents for the payment of Reparations...
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Im all for reperations. The catch is that you must have actually been a slave, and you must still be alive in order to collect.
This entire argument is rediculous... and in my opinion widens the very differences that many people are try to erase in the first place.
Now, I know we have blacks that play this game... what do you all think? Are you behind this idea or do you see it for what it is: roadkill?
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fortunately... this one won't get as far as the 'sue mcdonalds cause yer fat' one. not near as far.
unfortunately.... it is the best scheme anyone ever came up with to continue racism and resentment... The KKK couldn't have done better.. they aren't smart enough. The really bright biggots will milk this one for all it's worth.
OTOH... it is a pretty good satire on the whole afirmative action thing and holds a mirror up to those particular biggots.
lazs
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Originally posted by john9001
my family never owned slaves, and did not become rich on the "free" labor of slaves, that is why i am poor today, so i figure the govt owes my family money because we never took advantage of "free" slave labor and amassed a fortune, i think my familys loss is about $783,294.27....., more or less.
Mine too, let's sue
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
All my relitives imagrated here way after slavery. "
I agree, however I can trace my line back to Mr. Wilson, who signed the Declaration of Independence.
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how can you owe money for doing something that was legal at the time. also the talk I have heard has been for the gov't to pay. AFAIK the US gov't has never owned slaves.
also, if reperations where decided to be in order then couldn't the statistics that prove blacks commit a dis-proportionate amount of crime be used to justify whites being allowed to take property from blacks in reperations for high crime rates perpatrated by blacks. never mind that those you are taking it from probably wheren't even the problem. reperationist don't care that we wheren't the ones who owned slaves.
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reperationist don't care that we wheren't the ones who owned slaves.- Capt.Apathy
Exactly, Capt.
Their rationale in the US is the same as that used for Affirmative Action:
You are a white person currently living in a racist society. You have benifitted from living in a racist society whether you owned slaves or not, and therefore a debt is owed to African Americans who "built the country" with slave labor. The debt is to be payed for by the individual taxpayers of the racist society.
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Reparations for slavery is a silly idea. The discussion of reparations is a good idea.
Why?
Because the harm to the African Americans in this Country did not end with the conclusion of the Civil War. Institutional racism continued for a long time thereafter. There may be living Americans today who were directly harmed by those laws. Should they be compensated for their loss?
For an example of direct loss, do some research on the Tulsa Riots. An entire middle to upper class Black community was wiped out. Possibly thousands were killed. Not too high on the list of topics in most history books though.
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Reparations for slavery is a silly idea - MT
Please explain...
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The discussion of reparations is a good idea.
Discussion of reparations is a bad idea because it is deliberaltely devisive. It implies that ALL black people are victims of every anti-black racist event, and that ALL of America is the perpetrator. This stirs up resentment all around, and does nothing for real victims, past, present, or future. If anyone wants to air America's racial history, there are infinite avenues available. Turning to lawyers in an attempted money grab is probably one of the worst. The message it sends to blacks is "America owes you $", the message it sends to everyone else is "you owe blacks $". Nothing good can come from that.
ra
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I want reparations from the brutal occupation by Sweden. And as I lived in Sweden, I want from the Danes too.
Have to finance the reparations to the French and Brits somehow.
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lazs2: fortunately... this one won't get as far as the 'sue mcdonalds cause yer fat' one. not near as far.
Not intended to. It's supposed to be an eternal issue providing job for "race leaders".
capt. apathy: how can you owe money for doing something that was legal at the time.
That is not a good argument. It may have been legal in England and Colonies to invade african country and kidnap its people into slavery - or hire local thugs to do so - but it was not necessarily legal in that country. On the other hand if slavery was legal in that country and al you did was buy slaves on a market, than a fault lies with that country's legal system.
miko
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Durn it MT!!!!
Don't you-all go a slagging on them thar good ol' boy rednecks who piled into their pick-em up trucks for an old fashioned ni**er hunt.
Them thar rednecks wuz just proviin' the community a service.
It's still not a subject the "genteel folks" around Tulsa like to acknowledge.
Here's something for all the rednecks out there.
* Who gave us the black plague? White guys.
*Who invented PBC, PVC, PBB, and a host of chemicals that are killing all of us? White men.
*Who has started every war America has ever been in? White men.
*Who is responsible for the programming on FOX? White men.
*Who invented the punch card ballot? A white man.
*Whose idea was it to pollute the world with the internal combustion engine? Whitey, that's who.
*The Holocaust? That guy really gave white people a bad name (that's why we prefer to call him a Nazi and his little helpers Germans).
*The genocide of Native Americans? White men.
*Slavery? Whitey!
*In 2001, American companies laid off over 700,000 people. Who ordered the layoffs? White CEOs.
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Whatever weazel... I just wanna know when we get WET - White Entertainment Television. :D
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Slavery? Whitey
tsk tsk Weazel...
Many blacks historically engaged in slavery, as well as other races, and continue to do so today, on the African continent.
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weazle hates fox because they don't tow the line like all the lefty stations. It is allmost heretic (if liberals can be even considered to be heretics) for sensitive journalist types to step out of line and espouse ideals that aren't marxist.
weaz... someday you are gonna feel really foolish... you will go around wth a permenant blush.... you should feel foolish right now but fortunately for you, you aren't smart enough yet and you still believe the crap your support group spouts.
still... you should just agree with me now and save yourself a lot of pain latter on down the road.
lazs
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Mietla, you assert that there is no legal claim for Reparations whatsoever. I'm no attorney, but I think it could be argued that there are legal precedents for the payment of Reparations...
I'm not a lawyer either, but here's my understanding of it.
The legal precedents established by reparations to Japanese-Americans do not apply in the case of reparations to African-Americans for slavery. In the former, reparations were paid to the actual victims of unfair incarceration. In the latter, doubtless every single person who was once a slave has long since died.
This renders the case for reparations moot. Legal action requires that the individual bringing the case suffers from actual personal injury of some sort, which for Japanese-Americans was possible. However, none of the plaintiffs in a court case concerning slave reparations can argue that they suffer from injury as a direct result of slavery, and none can lay claim to having been a slave. This makes the issue of "injury" a lot more nebulous compared to the Japanese-American case.
Reparations may occur nonetheless, but they would likely result from a political/legislative solution rather than a judicial one.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Please explain...
For many of the reasons posted here. Who gets the cash? What if you're 1/2 black, or 1/8 black? What about Black men who owned slaves in the 18th century (more than you think). We are too far removed from slavery to consider payment for that sin. OTOH there are sins of a more recent nature that should be explored.
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Here's one guy who says reparations are outrageous.
Every day, hundreds of people sign on to
Jesse Jackson?s insane crusade to loot
millions of hardworking Americans like
you. For the sake of our children and our
country, help me stop Jesse Jackson once
and for all. Please read my letter below.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/22/181425.shtml
I am referring to Jackson's outrageous
slavery "reparations" movement - the
absurd idea that thousands of U.S.
corporations should be forced to pay huge
fines to compensate some blacks for
injustices committed 200 years ago by
people long dead!
Not content with the shakedowns he has
already taken from companies such as Pepsi
and Toyota, Jackson is now after trillions in
reparations for slavery money, enough to
bankrupt thousands of companies and
destroy millions of jobs - the last thing we
need in the midst of a full-blown recession.
As crazy as this idea is, scores of
communities and organizations have already
endorsed it - thanks to our liberal media and
politically correct schools. Even the governor
of California says reparations need to be
considered. Frightening!
Events.
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well then,,should the white slaves be paid too then?,,,because back then blacks wernt the only slaves in usa,lol,,chinese,,irish,,french,,english and scottish people were slaves too,,worked on railroads,,and died for the profit of rich people,,should they too get paid?,,,that means they would have to pay allmost everyone in the world<~~because at one time or anothere about every race was a slave,,lol,,back then all you had to be is poor,,and you were a slave,,lol
just people tring to get money that doesnt belong to them anymore,,will england give my family back its land it took from us back in the 1600's?,or germany give back my great great great grampa's land?,,,no,,i dout they would,,,what is gone is gone,,,i beleve any slave still alive should be paid,,,but othere than that,,its bull larky,lol
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I believe reparations should only be considered only to those who endured slavery themselves (and not their far ancestors)
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Wow,,,,,good,,,,point,,,,
:cool:
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Just had this faxed to me from a buddy in the UK - this is from a local newspaper over there - thought it might apply. ;)
"A Moments Silence Please"
TODAY, we mourn the passing of an old friend: Common Sense. He lived a long life, but recently died in the UK. No one knows how old he was, as his records were lost long ago in bureaucratic red tape, but he devoted his life to service in schools, hospitals, homes, and factories, helping people get jobs done without fanfare or foolishness.
For decades, petty rules, silly laws, and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with teaching such valued lessons as knowning when to come out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, and that life isnt always fair. Common sense lived by simple, sound financial policies, reliable parenting strategies and the maxim that its OK to come in second.
He survived new cultural and educational trends, but in recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of well-intentioned but overbearing regulations. His health deteriorated when schools, socisl workers and endless succession of quangos implemented zero-tolerance policies. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to give a pupil an asprin but could not inform the parents when a girl was pregnant to wanted an abortion.
Common sense finally lost his will to live when criminals recieved better treatment than victims, and the judiciary stuck its nose in everything. And when a person too stupid to realise a steaming cup of coffee was hot was later awarded a huge settlement, Common Sense threw in the towel.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion, his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. Not mny attended his funeral because so few realised he was gone. He is survived by two step-brothers: My Rights and Ima Whiner. My Rights is now sickened and getting weaker as a succession of government regulations gradually remove such rights as are left, such as the right to a comfortable retirement, but Ima Whiner is going from strength to strength.
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For many of the reasons posted here. Who gets the cash? What if you're 1/2 black, or 1/8 black? What about Black men who owned slaves in the 18th century (more than you think). We are too far removed from slavery to consider payment for that sin. OTOH there are sins of a more recent nature that should be explored.
Who gets the cash? - In the US, would'nt the cash go to Black Americans?
What if you are 1/2 or 1/8 black? - Wouldn't you get 1/2 or 1/8 the amount a full blooded black person gets?
What about black men who owned slaves? - Well, what about them?
Mt, do you believe that blacks in the USA deserve some form Reparations?
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Mt, do you believe that blacks in the USA deserve some form Reparations?
Yes, many do, but not for slavery.
(you sure you're not Hortlund?)
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:D
MT - I'm only trying to understand why you support Affirmative Action but not Reparations...
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I know exactly what you're doing.
I'm not gonna play. :p
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Who gets the cash? - In the US, would'nt the cash go to Black Americans?
what about the irish? chiniese? germans? spanish? english? scottish? they going to get paid too for being slaves?,up till 1800 there were still plenty of white slaves,,and there saying they want money for slaves back in 1400's,,,well what about all the othere slaves?,,people act like blacks were the only slaves in the usa,,they were not,,anyone who was poor was a slave,,plain and simple,,so that means about 80% of the population was probly a slave at one time or anothere,,lol
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I know exactly what you're doing. I'm not gonna play. - MT
Are you afraid of the light? :)
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so that means about 80% of the population was probly a slave
Please go on...
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naw,,i wont go too far,,because people will get upset:),,heheh,,everyone tring to get money out of people for old crap,,are the jews going to start sewing europe for being slaves in the roman empire?,,or sew iraq because they were slaves in babalon?,,its allmost the same thing,,,and plenty of white ,,chiniese,,,black,,on and on,, were slaves in the usa,,,building railroads right along the blacks suffering and deing just the same way,,anyone who was poor back then was a slave,,allmost the hole world,,lol,,only a tiny percent of people become rich in there life time,,and back then the tiny percent was even smaller,,lol,,only things that happen in a persons life time should be paid to them
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wonder how weez can get away with posting an offensive graphic most other boards including ebay would pull ??
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I know exactly what you're doing. I'm not gonna play. - MT
MT - If your beliefs cannot withstand even the most superficial scrutiny, why would you hold them so dear?
I have no idea what your rationale for supporting AA while not supporting Reparations might be... given that they are related. You might have a perfectly valid explanation...
But if you won't discuss it because you are afraid that some inconsistancy in your position will be exposed, you are not really dedicated to the truth. C'mon, give it a shot.
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:D
Nothing works as well as using a few Michael Moore quotes as bait to bring out the redneck in a person.
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ever hear the old bible saying,,sins of the father and son? talking about how you shall not be blamed for the sins of your father or for the sins of the son<~~pretty much saying,,if your father murderd some one and later down the road after he dies,,they figure out your dad killed a person,,,does that mean you have to be killed for somthing he did?,,no it dont,,what your father did too some one shouldnt have any thing to do with you,,and you should not be blamed for somthing that you didnt do your self,,plain and simple:)
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Originally posted by hyena426
naw,,i wont go too far,,because people will get upset:),,heheh,,everyone tring to get money out of people for old crap,,are the jews going to start sewing europe for being slaves in the roman empire?,,or sew iraq because they were slaves in babalon?,,its allmost the same thing,,,and plenty of white ,,chiniese,,,black,,on and on,, were slaves in the usa,,,building railroads right along the blacks suffering and deing just the same way,,anyone who was poor back then was a slave,,allmost the hole world,,lol,,only a tiny percent of people become rich in there life time,,and back then the tiny percent was even smaller,,lol,,only things that happen in a persons life time should be paid to them
Hmmm, will the jews be bringing their sewing machines with them too? ;)
Actually if any group or person wants to sue another government I couldn't care less.
Reparations in this case I am against as how in the world can it be fairly awarded? How can it be fairly taken away? Who would be found liable? Too many questions that probably can't be accurately/fairly answered.
Have Black Americans been wronged? Absolutely.
Do they still feel the effects of racial prejudice? Sure do.
Perhaps we're asking the wrong questions.
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But if you won't discuss it because you are afraid that some inconsistancy in your position will be exposed, you are not really dedicated to the truth. C'mon, give it a shot.
I've posted plenty on the subject. I've posted plenty on AA, and Reparations. If you think my stand may be flawed you put in the work and ferrett me out.
Good luck in your endeavors Sir Gunthr. But remeber this... sometimes that light you see is just a train coming.
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I get real tired of hearing "BLACK" people crying how they were oppressed for 200 hundred years so we want reparations ,
I am jewish by decent we have been oppressed since the time of the egyptians,greeks,romans,spanish,Hitler
I dont expect nor whine about Reparations
and I really wish these whiney squeakes would dry up and blow away
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I believe reparations should only be considered only to those who endured slavery themselves (and not their far ancestors) - Animal
I know of only a few black men connected to AH and Warbirds - one is "Doc" a co-founder of the 332nd Flying Mongrels (with Daddog Glazier) my old squad - who is an MD as in "medical doctor" and an outstanding person, Stigler, the German black guy from Warbirds... yourself, maybe a few others who came and went.
I value your perspective ...
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I've posted plenty on the subject. I've posted plenty on AA, and Reparations. If you think my stand may be flawed you put in the work and ferrett me out. - MT
If you won't partake, I can't force you. :)
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Originally posted by rickod
I get real tired of hearing "BLACK" people crying how they were oppressed for 200 hundred years so we want reparations ,
I am jewish by decent we have been oppressed since the time of the egyptians,greeks,romans,spanish,Hitler
I dont expect nor whine about Reparations
and I really wish these whiney squeakes would dry up and blow away
Here in the United States, when you sit down at a restaurant, do you get no service or worse service? When you walk into a store, do you get looked over because they think you're going to steal?
You're walking down the street, do others cross the street in front of you to avoid being near you? Do women clutch their purses tighter as they pass you? Were your ancestors enslaved by this govt.? Passed over for promotions? Never getting "that" job? Denied access to restrooms, restaurants, drinking fountains, etc. (many more samples but I'll stop here.)
...all because of your skin color?
We won't even go into lynchings, beatings, cross burnings, etc.
One can hide one's religion, one can't hide one's skin color.
BTW. It's a heavy burden to carry because of one's skin color, no?
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Have Black Americans been wronged? Absolutely.
lots of people have been wronged,,not just blacks,,irish people ,,chiniese,,they all faced the same races slurs as anyone else,,,sins of the father shouldnt be put on innocent people,,i didnt beat anyone or kill anyone,,,so i shouldnt have to pay for some one doing it 300 years ago,,lol I am jewish by decent we have been oppressed since the time of the egyptians,greeks,romans,spanish,Hitler
your right,,your people have been slammed on for years,,and so have most people,,if you look back in history{which you should all realize history means its over},,lol,,,you will see that alot of people down the line have been murderd and suffered and made pepole rich,,while all they got was 6 feet under,,,thats life,,but too pay people who are alive now days for somthing that happend 300 years ago,,is pure crazy,,lol
you need to lisin to the black avenger on am radio,,610,,,,he is coast to coast,,he is a black man,,and he says,,black people are the most rasict people in the usa,,they go around with a chip on there shoulder blaming white people for everything,,instead of doing like he did,,got a job,,worked hard,,and made somthing of him self instead of a wellfare bum,,lol its just people wanting free money,,thats all!!Here in the United States, when you sit down at a restaurant, do you get no service or worse service? When you walk into a store, do you get looked over because they think you're going to steal?
this aint the 1950's anymore,,and people got more to worry about then just black people,,lol,,,hey im white and if i walk into a store im treated no diffrent than a black man,,,and if i walk into a wellfare office even if i need money,,i will be passed on just because of the color of my white skin,,does that seem fair ethere?blacks have more rights than anyone in this country
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Originally posted by hyena426
blacks have more rights than anyone in this country
Really? Name them.
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Animal is not black. He is an island mexican.
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SaburoS I think you need to check american history a lil closer
yes services and goods have been boycotted.
yes hasidic jews do get stared at and less service at a local dennys if in traditional garb.
yes to all in the 1840-1920 era when politicians were picked and put on the ticket by there affiliation with the kkk which by the way doesnt only iscriminate against blacks but jews and catholics as well.
how many jews were denied entry into the u.s. after world war 2 ?
I have even seen a change in my ex coworkers attitudes towards
me when I wore a yarmulka to work on a traditional holliday
and had to turn down a lunch with some co workers because of hollidays and times of the year when we are required to follow rabinical law on what is kosher to eat and what is not .
Until then they didnt know and thought I was a regular "God Fearing" I hate that term christian .
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Originally posted by hyena426
this aint the 1950's anymore
The following isn't from the 1950's
http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/011697/dennys.htm (http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/011697/dennys.htm)
hey im white and if i walk into a store im treated no diffrent than a black man,,,and if i walk into a wellfare office even if i need money,,i will be passed on just because of the color of my white skin
How would you know that you're not treated differently than a black man?
More whites take advantage of welfare than minorities do.
Would you be passed on receiving welfare because of your white skin, or would it be because you didn't qualify for it?
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for one wellfare<~~if you aint black or mexican,,forget it!! you will be lucky to get 5 bucks out of them,, even if your poor and need it,,that is one huge benifit to have the goverment help you out when your going down,,,,,,,,,,me,,i wont see any goverment help,,i will have to fight for every dollar i need
i know some people who are so poor they can hardly feed there kids,,and the goverment will only give them 50bucks in food stamps a month!!,,,so they gave up,,and been scratching here and there in little jobs ,,just too keep afloat,,,but i also know mexicans,,who live in my town,,who have a good sized house,,and they col;ect wellfare,,and they get allmost 1500 a month,,just because there a minority,,,whites are a minority now,,but there not getting the treatment like they are,,lol
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the most rediculous proposition ever put forward by a rediculous person.
Do the current generation of Blacks have small brains becuase of slavery or something? is there some measurable effect they suffer as a result of slavery?
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More whites take advantage of welfare than minorities do.
Would you be passed on receiving welfare because of your white skin, or would it be because you don't qualify for it?
Nice try, but welfare (and Social Security and the federal and state governments' taxation and fiscal policies as a whole) still represents a net transfer of income from whites to blacks. You can "whitewash" it all you want, but that's the fact jack.
PS The KKK burned a cross on my Mom's lawn once (Catholics). Where's my check beeeyotch? :D
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Originally posted by hyena426
for one wellfare<~~if you aint black or mexican,,forget it!! you will be lucky to get 5 bucks out of them,, even if your poor and need it,,that is one huge benifit to have the goverment help you out when your going down,,,,,,,,,,me,,i wont see any goverment help,,i will have to fight for every dollar i need
LOL, so I take it that there are no white americans taking advantage of welfare? Please show me where it says that minorities only can get approval for welfare.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Where's my check beeeyotch? :D
Really funked, that was sooo necessary for your argument :rolleyes:
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Sorry it's Friday, just havin' fun. :)
You know you like getting pigpiled upon anyways. :)
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And I do want a check. All those stories of KKK hatred against my family... It makes me queasy when I'm near southerners. I demand reparations for all the Maalox I had to buy.
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it is not about getting wellfair,,its how much they give you!!,,you can be poor as dirt and be lucky to get 50bucks in food stamps,,,,i have a granny who has had 2 bypass surgeries,,,she only gets little bit from medicare,,and i been paying bills so she can keep her house,,,,she tried to apply for wellfair,,they said all they could give her was 50bucks a month in food stamps!,,she is so poor she is about to go in a home,,but the goverment wont give her a dime,,but they will give these healthy people tons of money
lots of people working on the system,,not just blacks,,but its easier for them to get more help,,i know this for a fact,,,i have sit over in the wellfare office tring to get my poor granny anuff money to live the last of her days,,,and i see them handing checks out too people who are healthy anuff to work for them selfs,,it aint fair,,,,world is not fair,,,thats life
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Originally posted by funkedup
Nice try, but welfare (and Social Security and the federal and state governments' taxation and fiscal policies as a whole) still represents a net transfer of income from whites to blacks. You can "whitewash" it all you want, but that's the fact jack.
LOL perhaps it is the fact that it is a majority of the population being white, put more into the system via taxation. Whites as a group still are the number one recipient of welfare.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
I know of only a few black men connected to AH and Warbirds - one is "Doc" a co-founder of the 332nd Flying Mongrels (with Daddog Glazier) my old squad - who is an MD as in "medical doctor" and an outstanding person, Stigler, the German black guy from Warbirds... yourself, maybe a few others who came and went.
I value your perspective ...
Lets just say I also have a unique perpective.
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Originally posted by hyena426
lots of people working on the system,,not just blacks,,but its easier for them to get more help,,i know this for a fact,,,i have sit over in the wellfare office tring to get my poor granny anuff money to live the last of her days,,,and i see them handing checks out too people who are healthy anuff to work for them selfs,,it aint fair,,,,world is not fair,,,thats life
You know this for a fact? So you know the qualifications of those that received welfare checks and not your granny? You know, I'm glad that you posted it saying it is a fact. Yup, your granny was denied because she was white. The others received welfare because they weren't white. Well, I'm glad you straightened that out for me. Whew :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by funkedup
Sorry it's Friday, just havin' fun. :)
You know you like getting pigpiled upon anyways. :)
But...but.. I am such a bleeeeding heart lib! You know you hurt my wittle feewings!
Hehe, just kidding bro...all in fun actually ;)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
LOL perhaps it is the fact that it is a majority of the population being white, put more into the system via taxation. Whites as a group still are the number one recipient of welfare.
I think that's true. Blacks have a higher likelihood of being on the dole but the sheer number of whites means there are more whites on the dole.
I'm not trying to make a point about blacks or whites here, just about the government policies. A lot of policies end up being "def facto" racist policies, regardless of the original intent. Like welfare or the more common example of the death penalty.
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Originally posted by funkedup
And I do want a check. All those stories of KKK hatred against my family... It makes me queasy when I'm near southerners. I demand reparations for all the Maalox I had to buy.
hehe, so sue the KKK. (I was wondering why my Maalox stock was rising in value. So you were the one! Thnx!)
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Did you see "O Brother Where Art Thou?" I'm picturing those guys on the front lawn. :)
OOOOOOO EEEEE OOOOOOOOOO
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Originally posted by funkedup
I think that's true. Blacks have a higher likelihood of being on the dole but the sheer number of whites means there are more whites on the dole.
I'm not trying to make a point about blacks or whites here, just about the government policies. A lot of policies end up being "def facto" racist policies, regardless of the original intent. Like welfare or the more common example of the death penalty.
No kidding, but I think it goes deeper. Maybe if minorities had better education and job oportunities, they wouldn't need to take advantage of welfare or threaten lawsuits.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Did you see "O Brother Where Art Thou?" I'm picturing those guys on the front lawn. :)
OOOOOOO EEEEE OOOOOOOOOO
Naw, havent seen it. Funny movie? How old is it?
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I can't believe I typed "def facto" instead of "de facto". I must be listening to too much Public Enemy.
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Originally posted by Gunthr
If you won't partake, I can't force you. :)
I apologize for being obtuse Gunthr. Too busy right now to get wordy, and just not in the mood for a verbal duel. I was serious about looking up past posts. We have done this subject at length and I have posted at length.
I must be busy.... Evolution is one of my favorite subjects (bio-sci major) and I've barely posted in that thread either.
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You know this for a fact? So you know the qualifications of those that received welfare checks and not your granny? You know, I'm glad that you posted it saying it is a fact. Yup, your granny was denied because she was white.
it doesnt,,,,but i know people who get welfare checks,,you think i only talk to white people with wellfare problems?,,i live in a farm town,,,,alot of my freinds are mexicans,,and they tell me what the goverment has gave them...over 1000 bucks a month is what wuan gets,,,,and he is only 34 years old i think and in perfict health!!,,,,it is not that they wont give my granny any help,,its just such a small amount that it isnt even worth the trouble!! 50 bucks in food stamps is what they said ,,a month!!,,my granny barly gets 800 a month from social security,,and with medical problems and hardly any income,,you think they would give her more than 50bucks a month in food stamps!!,,but they give a perfict healthy man 1000 bucks a month,,while i have to work extra hard too keep electricty in her house and too keep her from going to a old folks home,,,seems like the goverment only gives money to people who dont need it!,,lol
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Bro... np :)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Please show me where it says that minorities only can get approval for welfare.
Please show me where it says minorities are disadvantaged.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Please show me where it says minorities are disadvantaged.
You're saying that minorities and whites on welfare are not disadvantaged?
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Will these reparation payments be then transfered by the minorities recieving them to those people who helped free them from slavery for free?
This a big pile o sht, mebbe this is someone's sick ploy to stir up something that will make the LA riot look like kids in a sandbox...
SKurj
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I doubt that there are any "pure" black africans left here that are decendants of slaves. allmost all are in some part white mix.
fact is... people discriminate based on appearance. Tall and/or good looking people do better in the workplace. In Africa... the darker negroes are looked down upon by the lighter skinned ones. Cripples are treated differently as are young/old people. Women are treated differently than men.
The more you look like the majorities "ideal" the better off you will be.
lazs