Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: jarbo on January 24, 2003, 02:07:33 PM
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Caught in a Rut: Stagnated Solomon Island Campaign
Situation: The allied advancement in the pacific has stagnated. The Solomon Islands continue to be a highly contested area. The Japanese carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku are operating in the region. The U.S. carriers Princeton and Saratoga are also operating in the area. The Cactus Air Force is operating out of Henderson Field (A1) currently and has a wide variety of planes at their disposal. Allied commanders wish to move their foothold deeper into the island chain. The Marines currently hold a single base (A5) but have their eyes set on A10 as a forward base of operations. The Japanese, however, have made an unexpected technological advancements several months back and are deploying two new aircraft in full production to the region, the A6M5b and the KI67.
The M16, LVTs enabled at all land bases
Japanese (Knights)
C23,C24,C29 - Amphibious Assault Groups LVTs only
C30 - Shokaku - A6M5, A6M2, B5N2, D3A1
C22 - Zuikaku - A6M5, A6M2, B5N2, D3A1
A11,A15,A16,A17,A18,A19,A20 - A6M2/5, B5N2, D3A1, KI-61, KI-67
Any Land Base Captured: A6M2/5, B5N2, D3A1, KI-61, KI-67
U.S. (Bishop)
C7,C27,C28 - Amphibious Assault Groups LVTs only
C3 Princeton - F6F, SBD, TBM
C8 Saratoga - F4F-4, SBD, TBM
A5 Marines - F4U-1, SBD
A1 Cactus Air Force - Boston III, P40E, F4F-4, SBD
Any Land Base Captured: Boston III, P40E, F4F-4, SBD
* One "surprise" captured Japanese base will have the F4U-1 Enabled*
Enjoy,
Jarbo
CT Staff
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Will be there tonight! :)
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Sounds good to me better practice up on my a6m2 skills:D
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Great plane choices.
I really like the Allies having 1 fighter per CV.
eskimo
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looks fantastic!
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Great setup. So far I have used the F4F4, F6F5 and Ki61 each is more than capable of holding it own in this planeset. Lots of fun.
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My history must be failing me - I don't remember ANYTHING about the F6F HELLCAT being around at this time. What's the deal? Is this another one of those "Playability" or "What If" things for the CT?
Drop the HELLCAT and you will have a GREAT historical set up for the CT this set-up.
Another thing CT staff - when you put up the discription for the scenario - how about please adding the arena set-ups as well such as down times, radar settings, flak settings etc. Would be much appreciated.
Thanks. !
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didnt the a6m5b and the f6f come out at the same time?
And yes please give us the times....
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Originally posted by Andijg
My history must be failing me - I don't remember ANYTHING about the F6F HELLCAT being around at this time. What's the deal? Is this another one of those "Playability" or "What If" things for the CT?
Drop the HELLCAT and you will have a GREAT historical set up for the CT this set-up.
Another thing CT staff - when you put up the discription for the scenario - how about please adding the arena set-ups as well such as down times, radar settings, flak settings etc. Would be much appreciated.
Thanks. !
A couple of points.
Both the A6M5b and Ki-61 arrived too late for duty in the Soloman Islands. Furthermore, I believe the whole campaign was conducted by the IJN, with little or no assistance from the JAAF.
Also, the USAAF had P-38s at Guadalcanal and the Marines operated SBDs from Henderson Field.
Jarbo stated that the Ki-61 was added to balance the plane set. Likewise, the F6F-5 was added to offset the A6M5b. There weren't any P-40s in the area, but there were squadrons of P-39s. They are just making due with what they have. I find the match-up to be excellent.
My regards,
Widewing
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:rolleyes:
....and is why AH needs to get thier toejam together and get us the A6M3, P-38F(?), and P-39.
Why wait a year or so to get all three, why not one at a time?
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This is roadkill. If we end up substituting everything for everything then why not enable every damn thing?
Put all late war well behind the front lines. Put all early war on the front lines. Lets leave it US vs IJ. Geeesh!s
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Only problem with late-war pacific....look at the late-war USAAF/USN planeset (F4U-1D, F4U-1C, F4U-4, P-47D-11, P-47D-25, P-47D-30, P-51B, P-51D, FM2, P38L)
Now look at the late-war IJN planeset (N1K2). Note I didn't mention IJA; they don't have any real late-war fighters.
The current setup might not be completely slaved to history (though IMO I find it very historical in nature), but it's a heck of a lot more balanced than a late-war "gang the helpless N1K"-fest.
J_A_B
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Why not something leaning a little more toward the "Historic" (dare I use that word and the CT in the same breath.)
Just take out the F6F, Ki-61 & Ki-67.
P-40 is close enough to sub for the P-39 so no problems there. It can be left in place.
We will settle in and have us a good PTO rumble with a fairly even plane set then.
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Heh, the Ki-61 is the only decent fighter the Japanese have. The Zero, even the A6M5, is a piece of junk IMO.
Besides, what's wrong with F4F's, F4U's, F6F's and P-40's fighting A6M's and Ki-61's? Seems pretty historical to me :) It's certainly nothing like the Spitfires shooting at B-17s while dodging the LA7 escorts like you see in the MA :)
J_A_B
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very nice point jab. Sometimes I think we forget.
I would love to see this with early p38s, p39s and the crew though. Man that would be fun.
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I would very much like to see the early P-38, P-39, and early B-26, a devesator, and a Wiraway, but what I want more than all those is the A6M3, and a Ki 43IIb, right now we have in the plane set more allied planes that are close to being approparate and only 3 Japanes planes that are all of which are such early models that they are almost universialy 6 months to a year behind their allied counterparts that are modeled.
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which way to Finland?????????????
and are we going there soon .... pls
two days of island hoppin is one day too many for me :)
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take the f6f and ki-61 out. why add them if they werent there?
the p38 was there but it wasnt the J so dont add it even as a 'replacement'.
If you then find no one likes the setup then dont attempt to re enact the solomans. Am i really alone in thinking this?
I know we used to suffer a problem with japan having no dive bombers or torpedo bombers and therefore had to put something in, but now we DO have them.
the way i see it
f4f/F4u-1 is a fair match to zero
D3A is a fair match to SBD
B5N is a fair match for TBM.
P40E for the p39 is ok as it wont outperform anything japanese significantly
you dont NEED ki67, you dont NEED ki61 and you sure dont NEED F6F(which will dominate totally).
the point is if you feel the zero (a6m2) is too inferior then you had best fly allied. If not enough people fly as japanese then you have not got the interest to sustain a solomans map, simple as that really.
I think the lack of a variety of fighters of this era for the japanese is the cause of most problems not their performance.I tend to not like being IJN because it means very little choice in what you fly BUT since the new planes arrived I have enjoyed flying them immensely.What i dont like is flying a B5n only to come face to face with a F6F! its too discouraging to maintain a dcent enjoyment level.
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I am not going to even get involved in this one.
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Gee why erg? Is it the lack of facts?
"Yeah, sure a good old jap rape... err rumble, by navy blue that has buffs (A-20?) what out dive, out run, and damn near out shoot what would be left of the IJN/IJAF..."
We dont have the A-20*
"Oh yeha Jarbo...?!?! Why is it the Allies can man their fleet guns and the Axis cannot? Whyn't YOU lock the fleets on predesignate patrols within striking distances of fields, but not right fediddleing next to them, eh?"
Axis can man fleet guns. Ask the guys shelling A5,V4, and A1 yeserday.
"(biting my tongue bfore I say something like, "amazinhunk designers should test their products on their family first!"
But I would never ever really say something like that because it wouldn't be P.C.)"
Should have bit your tounge awhile ago:D
* We do have the Boston. It aint blue and Axis have the Ki-67.
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No slash, I think I am on your side if you think they are whining a bit too much.
Personally I think the f6f is a fine plane for this setup. Now that f4u1 is what I thought you guys would be complaining about.
erg
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Ill check the issue with fleet guns enabled on Carrier Task groups, its not supposed to be that way (i'll check setup).
As for the issue with the F6F, I dont think it imbalances the setup, so I am leaving it in.
Again, ALL of my setups focus on trying to create a BALANCED setup even if it means we don't have a truly by-the-book-historic matchup.
Jarbo
CT Staff
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This is a good setup, lets just stop arguing and go fly. You can have success in all of the planes - the side who wins any particular engagement I've been in for this setup was the side who fought together better and who supported each other more.
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Odee, your information is incorrect.
I just checked the setup, and the "mannable" guns are disabled for BOTH sides on the Carrier Task Groups. The destroyer task groups have the guns enabled for BOTH sides. As for controlling the fleets, I have left that decision up to the players on line on how best to use the fleet assets.
Jarbo
CT Staff
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"This is a good setup, lets just stop arguing and go fly. You can have success in all of the planes - the side who wins any particular engagement I've been in for this setup was the side who fought together better and who supported each other more."
Exactly.
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Originally posted by jarbo
Odee, your information is incorrect.
I just checked the setup, and the "mannable" guns are disabled for BOTH sides on the Carrier Task Groups. The destroyer task groups have the guns enabled for BOTH sides. As for controlling the fleets, I have left that decision up to the players on line on how best to use the fleet assets.
Jarbo
CT Staff
cr tg's have mannable guns, too... no biggie... as for leaving the fleets controllable, thx... it made for some really interesting tactics... i've seen both side waste fleet resources badly, while i used them quite effectively.
we sunk the jap fleets yesterday because they were exposed. then today we sunk the uns fleets and drove them back to spawn for the same reason.
it was a lesson in naval ops. i really like how you had unmannable cv's and mannable cr tg's... it made things a lot more realistic in terms of how to use tg's properly. only thing (dunno if possible) would be to leave the 5" mannable at the cv's fleets... but no biggie if not.
you expose those cv's too close, you'll lose them, i kept usn cv's about 30-40 miles off bases we were working on... never lost any.
i think the setup is just fine, and for the most part #'s fairly balanced. coordination wins the day.
now about them bands of clouds.... can u lessen the density next time this map rolls around? real framerate killer.
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WHAT happened to plane set????????????? YOU for got to put in spits and LAs....got eveything else 109,JU88 P47 ,P51 WHAT HAPPENED??????????????????
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Grunherz has the right idea; the planeset is fine for both sides.
IMO some people just want a "bang the japanese" setup.
J_A_B
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Jarbo, has imo created a good plane match up for a time and place that were "planeset challanged" as far as creating good match up's is concerned. I flew both sides on saturday and had good fun and killed as much as i was killed in hellcats and in Zero's. I even sank a BB and a DD with a Kate, that was the best part, avoided two hellcats and got my torp off before they could come around and kill me, the funnest part in a kate is living to get it off, after that a wholy expect to die.:)
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Here's the main thing that I care about, and the number one reason why I fly in the CT.
I want to fly a plane (almost any plane) against one of its historical oponents (or a reasonably close version).
I'm not crazy about fights that involve 5 or more different aircraft types on each side. I want to relive battles and fights that I've read about for most of my life. Those fights typically involved one, or sometimes two, fighter types per side, perhaps with one bomber type in the mix being escorted.
I don't mind fighting against superior numbers.
I don't mind fighting higher cons.
I don't mind fighting against somewhat superior aircraft.
However, fighting higher cons in somewhat superior aircraft and in superior numbers all evening long, gets old. The odds are, if I'm not having fun because of this issue, few others on my country are either (I almost always have fun). If most players on one side are not having much fun because of an imbalance, that country is going to have poor numbers. Poor numbers on one side gives the uber side few targets. Few targets for them is also no fun, and they also log off as well.
My point, a ballance is essential for a fun set up and to encourage good numbers. Its even more important than historical accuracy simply because historicaly, most battles were very lopsided and "unfair" in one way or another.
Who wants to play the guys who defended the Alamo?
I think this set up has a good ballance, and I'm having fun.
If players perceive that the Japanese have it pretty good in this set-up, then please switch to Knights. I really would like to fly the big blue planes too, but probably won't unless the Axis get, and holds, numbers over the Allies.
eskimo
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this is a good setup flew some yesterday afternoon was good fun really dont see a dominate plane thus far.
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Hazed,
Thanks for the contructive criticism of my setup. You stated what you feel is wrong, why you beileve its wrong, and (most importantly) how to improve it without personal attacks. I will definitely consider your suggestion in my next go of this setup.
Jarbo
CT Staff
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Flown properly, the Hellcat will dominate. However, it has to be flown properly. Make a mistake, and the Zeros can jump all over you. I'm a case in point. When I concentrated on dive bombing then rocketing and gunning fields I eventually got smacked by a Zeke (or Ki-61) diving in on me and making me blow my E a bit for the next IJA/N guy to get me. When I was forced to drop my ord early and evade and fight... I waxed 4 Zekes/Ki-61s and got 2 assists on others. Didn't get touched. Kept the 'Cat fast, turned when it wouldn't get me killed, extended to regain the E afterwards. My comment on range channel when I landed... "The Hellcat isn't fair in here!"
It has the ability to dominate, but more often than not, it won't. Just like the Val is an easy kill if you don't turn with it, but most people start trying to stall fight it, and they get BB'd to death or auger.
The setup is fine, it offered choices in the Pacific setting. I got to fly Zekes against things one night, and I got to fly both 'Cats. Sometimes it was a good early setup, sometimes it was a mix, others it was more late war.