Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hortlund on January 27, 2003, 02:08:23 PM
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The (Iraqi weapons report) document indicates that 13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi air force between 1983 and 1998.
13 000 chemical warheads used...thirteen thousand.
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This is all about OIL!
Sadam is great! I bet he builds Day care centers!
They must have been small chemical weapons, prolly not even as strong as an FDB meet on burrito night!:D
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
This is all about OIL!
Sadam is great! I bet he builds Day care centers!
He doesnt build day care centers man, its Catholic private elementary schools... jezz man, get your facts straight!
What a nice guy! Lets elect a Liberal so we can sell more weapons to him - afterall - hes only trying to protect the schools.
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Yeah! Let's nuke him!!
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Originally posted by Hortlund
13 000 chemical warheads used...thirteen thousand.
BTW, where were they dropped? If it was a testing ground we got them beat:D
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Originally posted by Sixpence
BTW, where were they dropped? If it was a testing ground we got them beat:D
I dont think you drop live chemical warheads on testing grounds actually.
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That whole country is going to become a testing ground rather soon.
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LOL!
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saddam actualy builds baby milk factorys for his poor starving kurds.
if saddam can only hold out against the evil dr. bush till the 2004 elections , hillery will be president and the demos will control congress and saddam can relax. but i think saddam needs a few more UN resolutions to make it.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
I dont think you drop live chemical warheads on testing grounds actually.
Suuuure and nobody ever tests live nuclear weapons either. :rolleyes: Look up Dugway & Aberdeen Proving Grounds (and Lakehurst back in 1918-23) in the US, Porton Down in the UK.
On June 30, 1977 the Department of Defense annotated the United States Code at Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520 to read as follows:
l§ 1520. Use of human subjects for testing of chemical or biological agents by Department of Defense; accounting to Congressional committees with respect to experiments and studies; notification of local civilian officials
(a) Not later than thirty days after final approval within the Department of Defense of plans for any experiment or study to be conducted by the Department of Defense, whether directly or under contract, involving the use of human subjects for the testing of chemical or biological agents, the Secretary of Defense shall supply the Committees on Armed Services of the Senate and House of Representatives with a full accounting of such plans for such experiment or study, and such experiment or study may then be conducted only after the expiration of the thirty-day period beginning on the date such accounting is received by such committees. (b)(1) The Secretary of Defense may not conduct any test or experiment involving the use of any chemical or biological agent on civilian populations unless local civilian officials in the area in which the test or experiment is to be conducted are notified in advance of such test or experiment, and such test or experiment may then be conducted only after the expiration of the thirty-day period beginning on the date of such notification. (2) Paragraph (1) shall apply to tests and experiments conducted by Department of Defense personnel and tests and experiments conducted on behalf of the Department of Defense by contractors.
It was repealed in 1997. But why would the DoD even need that law if no one ever tests chemical and biological weapons?
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So maybe we should first agree that there is a difference between "testing chemical weapons" and "using live chemical weapons on weapons ranges". Of cource they test chemical weapons and biological weapons and nuclear weapons, how else would they know they work. But that is not the same thing as taking a "tested and working" bomb with a chemical warhead and dropping it on the shooting range.
Now the report said that the Iraqi airforce has dropped 13 000 chemical bombs. That can only mean that they have dropped them "in action".
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Blix came up with that?
Wow, he did come up with something then. Wonder where they were dropped, what kind of stuff, etc.
Can traces be found?
Can the Iraqi explain why they "Don't" have any of those any more ? If they got rid of them, then Where?
If this fits perfectly, I'd say this is reason enough to remove Saddam from his throne.
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Lets elect a Liberal so we can sell more weapons to him - afterall - hes only trying to protect the schools.
I always thought Reagan was a conservative.
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Originally posted by Angus
Blix came up with that?
Wow, he did come up with something then. Wonder where they were dropped, what kind of stuff, etc.
Can traces be found?
Can the Iraqi explain why they "Don't" have any of those any more ? If they got rid of them, then Where?
If this fits perfectly, I'd say this is reason enough to remove Saddam from his throne.
Well, they dropped these bombs mainly during the Iran-Iraq war. Then they dropped some on the Kurds. If you remember the 12 000 page Iraqi document they handed over in December, that was supposed to contain their explanation on what happened with the other C-bombs that werent dropped. But unfortunately (for the Iraqis) the 12 000 page document hasnt really said anything at all, it seems to be mosty copys of older reports to the UN inspectors.
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I understand that the Allies (primarily the USA) will be supplying Dr Blix with some more useful intelligence than the list of suspected sites he was given to begin with, which seemed to turn up empty (perhaps unsurprisingly).
I should be very surprised if the whole country has not been under very close surveillance for a long time.
If those 13,000 Chem Warheads are found, and are found to contain chemical agents, then it is over for Saddam, no question.
And if they have been moved, there will be evidence of it, because that is quite a large job. It is up to the allies to point Dr Blix at the right places.
Dr Blix's report was a mixed bag, but pointed to some serious shortcomings in cooperation by the Iraqis. However, access to specified sites and locations was granted, and granted promptly in all but one case.
It would be very telling indeed if that policy of prompt compliance changed when Dr Blix asks for access to locations pinpointed in the soon to be received intelligence material.
The inspectors should be assisted and allowed the time they need. At any point they can tell the Iraqi regime that they are unhappy with their cooperation, they are being obstructed, they feel they are not being shown all the documents etc. Then they can threaten to withdraw, and then they can withdraw. At that point it will be back to the UN and a Resolution for military action.
If that is not passed then I expect the UK and the US and anyone else who can be cajoled into assisting with materiel or money, will exercise the Kosovo option and start hostilities with Iraq under the auspices of NATO.
My current $0.02.
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No you are missunderstanding. They were dropped by the Iraqi airforce as in used, dropped on enemies, as in kaboom followed by gas cloud.
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Yes they were used, with the nod of approval from its sponser Nation.
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The entire report:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,76710,00.html
Some highlights:
13 000 chemical bombs were dropped by Iraqi airforce during the Iran-Iraq war 1983-88 according to Iraqi airforce documents. Iraq now claims that 19 500 of these bombs were dropped when they are trying to explain where all their C went after the 91 war. Thus 6 500 warheads are missing.
6 500 chemical warheads estimated containing 1 000 metric tons of chemical agent
Iraq has declared that it produced about 8,500 liters of this biological warfare agent [anthrax], which it states it unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991. Iraq has provided little evidence for this production and no convincing evidence for its destruction.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
No you are missunderstanding. They were dropped by the Iraqi airforce as in used, dropped on enemies, as in kaboom followed by gas cloud.
Hmmmm bit pointless using the airforce, when you could just shoot them using arty like in WW1
Tronsky
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Ah OK, 6,500 missing, not 13,000.
The one's he's used don't really count since they are not really usable any longer.
6,500 is still a hefty number to move around. Anyone have any idea what their average size/weight might be?
Originally posted by bounder
I understand that the Allies (primarily the USA) will be supplying Dr Blix with some more useful intelligence than the list of suspected sites he was given to begin with, which seemed to turn up empty (perhaps unsurprisingly).
I should be very surprised if the whole country has not been under very close surveillance for a long time.
If those 6,500 Chem Warheads are found, and are found to contain chemical agents, then it is over for Saddam, no question.
And if they have been moved, there will be evidence of it, because that is quite a large job. It is up to the allies to point Dr Blix at the right places.
Dr Blix's report was a mixed bag, but pointed to some serious shortcomings in cooperation by the Iraqis. However, access to specified sites and locations was granted, and granted promptly in all but one case.
It would be very telling indeed if that policy of prompt compliance changed when Dr Blix asks for access to locations pinpointed in the soon to be received intelligence material.
The inspectors should be assisted and allowed the time they need. At any point they can tell the Iraqi regime that they are unhappy with their cooperation, they are being obstructed, they feel they are not being shown all the documents etc. Then they can threaten to withdraw, and then they can withdraw. At that point it will be back to the UN and a Resolution for military action.
If that is not passed then I expect the UK and the US and anyone else who can be cajoled into assisting with materiel or money, will exercise the Kosovo option and start hostilities with Iraq under the auspices of NATO.
My current $0.02.