Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: laz on January 08, 2002, 11:43:00 PM
-
This is just an idea.. but what about a menu that pops up when you reload i.e Bombs, rockets and you could select a different load from pad instead of stopping a good sortie to load some cookies. :D :D
=Twin Engined Devils=
"The talented one" :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
-
I'll 2nd that.
WTF?
I am finding myself agreeing with Lasz again!
Hmm, one of us is becoming more or less of a ... ???
eskimo
-
that would be laz, not lazs ;)
but your still right in what you said :D
(IMO)
-
Cookies?!!
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/superfly/Cookie.jpg)
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: SUPERFLY ]
-
The thing I like about the re-arm pads right now is that they are a "If you came prepared, they are usefull" tool. If a base might be under GV attack, I take rockets and bombs. If it turns out there are no GVs, I jetison the rockets and bombs... then I can rearm if necessary.
So... it is possible to meet your needs already, but you want an easier way to do it. All for the sake of extending a sortie.
Sorry... I just don't buy it.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
The thing I like about the re-arm pads right now is that they are a "If you came prepared, they are usefull" tool. If a base might be under GV attack, I take rockets and bombs. If it turns out there are no GVs, I jetison the rockets and bombs... then I can rearm if necessary.
The counterpoint to this is if you upped from a base that only allowed 25% fuel and/or no ordinance. It's possible that in the time you managed to clear the enemies out from the immediate area, either fuel or ordinance was rebuilt. It seems rather odd that you would then choose to resupply with 25% fuel if 100% is now available.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
Fuel is one thing, but on-the-fly re-equipping is something else.
Getting close to becoming Counter-Strike except you don't have to even have money to buy anything. People want repair hangars, rearm pads where you can choose a new loadout, who knows what else.... All so that they can game their scores.
How about this, what if a sortie counted like it's supposed to- when you take off, sortie begins, you land and come to a complete stop- sortie over. You begin to move again, new sortie.
-SW
-
The real lazs is l a z s. this phony one is realy l a z e r. It is like a bunch of guys flying niks and spits calling themselves "twin engined devils".
lazs
-
Originally posted by SWulfe:
Fuel is one thing, but on-the-fly re-equipping is something else.
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing fuel would be the big thing for most people when resupplying. I know it would be for me after field defense.
Getting close to becoming Counter-Strike except you don't have to even have money to buy anything. People want repair hangars, rearm pads where you can choose a new loadout, who knows what else.... All so that they can game their scores.
I don't buy that this would be a slippery slope. Repair hangars are IMO a really dumb and should be avoided at all costs. I do see where allowing ordinance changes could be Quakish, but I've always wondered why we couldn't change fuel loads while rearming -- it shouldn't take that much longer to put in more or less fuel. Maybe adding an extra rearm time penalty for anyone changing fuel loadouts and disabling the addition of DTs would go a long way toward avoiding the Counter Strike phenomenon.
How about this, what if a sortie counted like it's supposed to- when you take off, sortie begins, you land and come to a complete stop- sortie over. You begin to move again, new sortie.
-SW
That's a good idea. Or maybe a new sortie begins after resupply.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
I think the idea is sound about refueling/resupplying/re-equip, heck even repairing... so long as the sortie ends and a new one begins when this happens.
Just my pet peeve, I want the sorties to end when you refuel/rearm right now! But nothing goes my way. ;)
-SW
-
you are missunderstood and underapreciated in AH SW.
lazs
-
If the sortie ends when you land it should only end after a refuel/rearm. Otherwise the short stop starts would count as sorties when all your doing is adjusting on the runway.
I’m all for repairing damage once landed. I also like the idea of changing load-outs without hitting the tower.
Zippatuh
-
The counterpoint to this is if you upped from a base that only allowed 25% fuel and/or no ordinance. It's possible that in the time you managed to clear the enemies out from the immediate area, either fuel or ordinance was rebuilt. It seems rather odd that you would then choose to resupply with 25% fuel if 100% is now available.
Its not a counterpoint.
There is nothing preventing you from taking off with the 100% fuel load once the tanks respawn. The simple argument is wether you should have to end a sortie to do it.
I think you should.
Hell.. rearm pads could repair planes for all I care... but it shouldn't be a tool used to bump the "kills per sortie" number up even farther. Proposing changes for the sake of stats... sheesh.
AKDejaVu
-
well according to the stats it shows sorties landed right? So Zippatuh then it should not show each runway adjustment as a completed sortie because the aircraft never actually left the ground. BUT if it translates out the way you are thinking then a sortie should only count once your gear have left the ground; no matter how high off the ground you go it would still be a sortie.
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Its not a counterpoint.
Actually, it is. You offered a scenario where everything is available to the player but he chooses (unwisely) to take off with less than everything available. I offered a scenario where the player took off with everything that was available at the time and was later punished for it upon base resupply.
There is nothing preventing you from taking off with the 100% fuel load once the tanks respawn. The simple argument is wether you should have to end a sortie to do it.
SWulfe's suggestion goes along these lines without actually having to replane, and I like his suggestion. OTOH, it seems a bit unrealistic and silly to me to not allow players to change fuel loadouts while they're being refueled; that's a simple business of having a groundcrew stand there for less time or more time while they fuel the plane. It's certainly less work than switching out the guns or strapping some 1000 pound bombs to the belly of the plane.
Hell.. rearm pads could repair planes for all I care... but it shouldn't be a tool used to bump the "kills per sortie" number up even farther. Proposing changes for the sake of stats... sheesh.
You do realize, of course, that about the only purpose of rearm pads short of defending an area after the fighter hangars are down is to bump up statistics... right? You state on the one hand that you don't care if they exist, yet you bemoan the very reason for their existence.
That said, I think a compromise to keep the stats weenies happy would be in order... maybe something along the lines of counting a rearm as a new sortie for stats purposes, but keeping the kill buffer going for a player until death or exit. Hence, one may get 12 kills (according to the kill buffer) with one rearm, but the stats actually consider this a 6:1 K/S rather than 12:1.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
You do realize, of course, that about the only purpose of rearm pads short of defending an area after the fighter hangars are down is to bump up statistics... right? You state on the one hand that you don't care if they exist, yet you bemoan the very reason for their existence.
That's why they were put in bud. Now re-read the first post and tell me if this thread was started to enhance strat.. or stats.
Once again.. all for it costing a sortie.. but that's not what this thread was about. I'm all for it costing a sortie with the current setup too.
AKDejaVu
-
Of course, an even easier solution to the original post is for HTC to simply show the current kill streak as opposed to the sortie kill tally in the system display.
That's all people are really looking for anyway.
AKDejaVu
-
Hehe.. laz"s".. You smeeeeel like warm trash :D :D :D
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
That's why they were put in bud. Now re-read the first post and tell me if this thread was started to enhance strat.. or stats.
I'm not convinced that they were put in solely to provide a method of rearming after hangars go down (unless you have proof to the contrary). They also act as basically harmless stat-padding devices, and I get the impression that HiTech knew this when he implemented them. In any event, rearm pads act as de facto stat padders a vast majority of the time, even moreso now that fighter hangars may be resupplied more easily.
Now, I'm not disagreeing with you on the original post's purpose; it was cleary stat-minded.
Once again.. all for it costing a sortie.. but that's not what this thread was about. I'm all for it costing a sortie with the current setup too.
I'm not against that at all. It would also be nice to see rearming influenced by the current status of a field. For instance, if you take off with 100% fuel and some rockets, and you attempt to rearm at a base that now only supports 25% fuel and no ordinance... it doesn't make very much sense that you should be able to rearm with 100% fuel and rockets again.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
Originally posted by laz:
This is just an idea.. but what about a menu that pops up when you reload i.e Bombs, rockets and you could select a different load from pad instead of stopping a good sortie to load some cookies. :D :D
i suggested this about 3 weeks before 1.08 came out. i think it would be an awsome idea.
i also think that the field conditions should effect rearming. as it is now...if you take off with lets say 100% fuel, rockets and bombs, you can go to a field that has only 25% fuel and no ordinance and still completely rearm and get what you took off with. to me that just seems a little off.
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: pimpjoe ]
-
I'm not convinced that they were put in solely to provide a method of rearming after hangars go down (unless you have proof to the contrary).
It was discussed for some time. The premise was that you should still be able to rearm a plane despite the hangar condition.
The side effect was extended sorties... and that was apparent even before implimentation. It was not a "feature".
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
The side effect was extended sorties... and that was apparent even before implimentation. It was not a "feature".
Got a link? I actually wanted to search for this earlier, but I'd forgotten how to find the search function here.
Of course, if extended sorties were an apparent side effect prior to implementation, HTC probably didn't see them as undesirable. Otherwise, it's likely that a system like the one you'd prefer would have been implemented from the beginning.
In any event, the original purpose of the rearm pads has been diminished with the new strat rules that allow for easier base repair.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
You'll have to look back nearly two years for the threads. This cropped up after HTC linked destroying hangars to preventing aircraft from upping.
The conversations/arguments were pretty clear...
There was a valid reason to put the rearm pads in. That reason was not "prolonging sorties". It was a sideffect that everyone knew would occur. It wasn't deamed to be important enough to stop implimentation <obviously>.
Of course, in this thread, it becomes the PRIMARY MOTIVATION FOR MODIFICATION. I'm amazed this is so tough for you to understand DMF. Someone just came in and proposed a change solely to improve his k/s.
AKDejaVu
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Of course, in this thread, it becomes the PRIMARY MOTIVATION FOR MODIFICATION. I'm amazed this is so tough for you to understand DMF. Someone just came in and proposed a change solely to improve his k/s.
I clearly understand your point, but you're failing to grasp mine. Let me go over this again:
1) Of course I recognize that the original player's intent was K/S-related
2) Over time, changes to strat have made improving K/S the de facto purpose of rearm pads whether you like it or not, and whether this was their original purpose or not.
3) Therefore, a suggestion based on K/S may not be in the spirit of rearm pads as originally implemented, but it may be in their spirit at this moment in time.
Changes to scoring based on rearming, in this light, are worthy of discussion. We've been discussing, for example, some simple "fixes" that would return rearm pads to their primary purpose.
See?
-- Todd/Leviathn
[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Dead Man Flying ]
-
Originally posted by Reschke:
well according to the stats it shows sorties landed right? So Zippatuh then it should not show each runway adjustment as a completed sortie because the aircraft never actually left the ground. BUT if it translates out the way you are thinking then a sortie should only count once your gear have left the ground; no matter how high off the ground you go it would still be a sortie.
From what I understand “sorties landed” now is calculated at the time you are on the runway and hit “tower”. The message “you have landed successfully” appears and then it’s counted as one sortie. I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure about this.
If I am correct with the previous thought then I believe that the only successful way of stopping/starting a new sortie without hitting the tower but also being scored as a new one should start/stop at the rearming pad. Coding wise I think this would be easier. It would be a better idea to have it happen when the a/c left or encountered the ground. But then comes in the hops and jumps from landing and such.
I would like to be able to adjust the load out and repair damage at the rearm pad. The sortie should end though and to repair I like the idea of a perk cost for damages. Of course in this situation a kill streak counter would be helpful :).
Zippatuh
-
2) Over time, changes to strat have made improving K/S the de facto purpose of rearm pads whether you like it or not, and whether this was their original purpose or not.
Have offered the OPPORTUNITY for someone to improve k/s... not been generated for that purpose. That is where you completely miss the point.
Of all the times I've used the re-arm pad... about 95% were because the base was at some level of destruction that would have limited my ability to spawn, load fuel or load ammo.
That tells me what I use the rearm pad for. Or are you going to say that 5% now makes something de facto?
So... it is possible to meet your needs already, but you want an easier way to do it. All for the sake of extending a sortie.
Look what I said again... and look at the original post. Now look how you are trying to twist it to "make me understand".
Dude.. you are straying.
AKDejaVu
-
-
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Have offered the OPPORTUNITY for someone to improve k/s... not been generated for that purpose. That is where you completely miss the point.
This is where you keep missing my point. I can't believe that you honestly think I don't understand what you're saying here, DejaVu. What I keep trying to tell you is that regardless of whether or not the original INTENT was to allow for rearm while fighter hangars are down while allowing for the OPPORTUNITY to improve K/S, the fact is that a vast majority of the time now the rearm pads are used solely for improving K/S. Changes to strat that substantially decrease hangar downtime only exacerbate this.
Of all the times I've used the re-arm pad... about 95% were because the base was at some level of destruction that would have limited my ability to spawn, load fuel or load ammo.
That tells me what I use the rearm pad for. Or are you going to say that 5% now makes something de facto?
Come on, DejaVu, you know you're exceptional in this respect; you're generalizing your own personal experience to the entire player base. Do you honestly believe that anything other than a minority of players studiously adheres to this use of the rearm pads? I think they would out of necessity (i.e. if their base is taken out), but they'd just as soon rearm whether the fighter hangars were down or not. Do you think the original poster is the exception rather than the rule in AH?
So exactly what I'm saying is that K/S has become the de facto reason why most players use rearm pads regardless of their original intent. For better or worse.
Look what I said again... and look at the original post. Now look how you are trying to twist it to "make me understand".
Well, let me twist this to "make you understand." Thanks to the powers of the revised search function, I was able to do a search on the forum for the term 'rearm.' What I came up with was a direct quote from Pyro in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7112&highlight=rearm) thread in which he states:
"The main reason why we keep the sortie alive [after rearm] is for scoring and prestige purposes."
In other words, prolonged sorties were not a silly side effect that "[weren't] deamed to be important enough to stop implimentation" of rearm pads as you claim. HTC acknowledged that K/S was in fact one of the reasons for designing rearm pads this way. Hence, even if the primary purpose of rearm pads was to allow for rearm when hangars were dead, a secondary purpose was to improve scoring and prestige based on higher kill totals. In this context, the original poster was well within the spirit of things.
-- Todd/Leviathn