Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: save on January 29, 2003, 05:48:00 AM
-
Warbirds III Movie.
Hi guys.
Sorry for intruding but here is a
nice Warbirds III movie you might like to
watch.
all
http://bbs.warbirdsiii.com/showthread.php?threadid=7142
save
-
One of the most impressive WB films so far and a nice choice of music.
-
If they fixed the horrible artificial inertia problem in planes, WBIII would have been a possible alternative to AH. A place to go when one tires of Hizookas and .50s.
As it is, they can do whatever they want with graphics and gameplay - when a 190 has an initial roll rate slower than a Cessna 172, I don't wanna play.
Downloading film...gonna be interesting to see how good one can make WBIII look.
-
Just saw the film. Graphics are very impressive - the hits on the plane, the explosions - a good deal better than AH.
Tracers are sucky though.
How nice it'd be if they corrected the inertia issue.
-
were those tracer made with ms paint?
-
Santa its not inertia its an actual a control response delay.
The way to do it is roll right stop then roll back stop etc....
If you roll right then slap back left theres a real delay in response.
If you stop the roll back opposite the delay is less. But still theres a delay. The ailerons dont immediatly return to nuetral when pressure is released.
The reasons that I have heard were from its that way to prevent stick stirring to "thats real".
Its clearly artificial and why its like that is beyond me.
-
"Its clearly artificial and why its like that is beyond me."
And to most WB players. The onset, I can to a certain extend understand (taking into account stickforces, inertia and then add some warp protection on top)..but when you reduce stick input, it should stop rolling immediatly.
HS varied his explanation (Never openly admitted it was to stop warps), but mainly claimed it came from NACA data, which obviously, none of the other sims has seen.
HS has left iEN now, so there might be a change of improving it in the future.
The tracers can be modified (As can most of the effects, like smoke, fire and explosions) and this is using Phenix' own tracer texture.
Daff
-
What Daff said. WBIII's "tracers" are the most "realistic" of any online sim, and are user configurable as far as size and appearance. "Hit Sprites" the same.
As far as the "mushbirds" deal, this is a matter of stick scalings. I have very quick control response with my scalings, the FM doesn't feel "mushy" at all to me. For example, the WBIII P-38L rolls quite well, but "feels" like a 16,000 lb. twin engine prop fighter. The F4U and 190 series have wicked roll-rates and i dont feel any "mushyness" at all.
WWIIOL, AH, and WBIII'S FM's are all pretty-much the same. All the FM's have "holes", that's the nature of the beast. Little differences here and there but you can cover all three with a small blanket. Which game you choose is a matter of personal preference based on price, graphics, gameplay, system reqs, etc.
Cabby
-
so perhaps it is simply the boring axis vs allied thing that explains the difference between 500+ prime time players and 50+?
lazs
-
^ I think it's price. I'm guessing "Axis vs. Allies" is a foreign concept to most of the "500", not that there is anything wrong with that..........
C.
-
You don't think it's anything to do with the wheel-0-leathiality or FM of the week policy? or... guess what your plane will perform like today sooopreeeze? When I left... we could test for hours after pointing something bizzare out to them and they would say.... oh... we see... it will be fixed today... then... something even more bizzare would pop up and they would deny that so you would test for hours while the original bug would pop up again...
lazs
-
=SAVE=! Last time I saw you was when we sat together on the bus on the way to the go-kart race at last year's Eurocon. I hope to see you at the next Eurocon.
-
Cool movie.
I gotta agree with lazs2, last time I played WB, the damage done by gones was always being changed, got to the point that 50 cals were more lethal than 20mms in a hurri2. The flight modeling was everchanging, and warps were horrible.
I strongly felt that too many changes were made as a result of the whining from a vocal few, guys who wanted to make sure thier choice of ride was a super performer, and the other guys rides were lessened.
The flight modeling had certainly gotten way to mushy.
dago
-
Explosions looked nice. I thought the terrain and colour of the atmosphere would have been more stimulating but were rather uninspiring....european weather I guess.
Overall, looked nice but the tracers were the absolute worst. Ruined an otherwise enjoayble cut. Can they be turned off in game?
-
Originally posted by Dago
The flight modeling was everchanging, and warps were horrible.
I strongly felt that too many changes were made as a result of the whining from a vocal few, guys who wanted to make sure thier choice of ride was a super performer, and the other guys rides were lessened.
Dago - for what it's worth, I agree with you 100%. These are some of the reasons I left.
-
Cabby how do you tweak out the initial delay in control response? Because I'd really like to know. It's like the controls are operated by some very slow moving hydraulics that have a delay in response too.
-
Looked pretty, roll on Q£ amd AH2, didn't like tracers though, reminded me of playing X-Wing
Did like the shot of the rocket attack on the town though :)
-
The explosions, fire and smoke effects are awesome.
The falling brass is nice eye candy, but something that will hardly be seen.
The A/C damage effects (i.e. explosion when hitting vital parts) are really cool.
The tracers look absolutely horrible, especially from the P47. It looks like a confetti gun.
I never played WB, so I can't comment on flight models.
-
-Great aircraft graphics
-Cool explosions
-Terrain is good not great
-Rockets launching cool
-FM when I left just under a year so didn't like the delay in response.
-Tracers terrible IMO
-Axis vs. Allies I like once in a while in events for example but I do like the MA style of play. I like the challenge of Spit on Spit fights or F6F vs P-47's just for the skill involved etc.
-RPS I can take it or leave it
-
I wonder how many law suits will come out of that movie..
Distributing a file that has copyrighted material on it..
It's illegal to download it :)
-
No, I didnt say the tracers were realistic :)
WB got some sort of colour problem with the tones in the game, making it that either you get tracers that looks good against the ground, but invisible to the sky or vice-versa...this is less obvious when the horrible clouds are turned of.
It's like drawing a glowing (say yellow) object on a white background. In real life, a glowing tracer against the sky would be clearly visible, but it seems hard to translate into a computer screen.
These tracers are, if nothing else, functionable, which is my main concern when shooting...not ideal, but it works.
I also disagree with Cabby about the control delay...it's horrible, but you get used to it :)...FWIW's AH got similar, but on the elevator only...it might be the best way to get around the maneuver warp problem.
Daff
-
Nice movie i almost wanna drive jugs now.
:D
It's good to have some concurrence it brings improvement.
-
I think there was a shot of a 109 in there some of the parts of the 109 could have been from IL2
Explosions and music went together nicely towards the end..
-
very nice movie. VERY good effects with the exceptions of the tracers. Anyone know if WB3 can be played offline? I'd be willing to try it if that were possible. If I gotta sign up for an account just to try it, then forget it. To much work...
-
If I remember correctly...
hotseat explained that the joystick data acquisition was implemented following a specification for fly-by-wire systems in real aircraft, the mush effect came from something that was there to reduce PIO (though as far as i know the concept of pio has been abandoned and the effect been called APC for quite some time now).
I think the problem is that FF sticks aren't infinitly strong (or at least stronger than the player), so you can move the joystick where the virtual pilot can't move his virtual stick.
-
That was one of his many explanations, but that one changed after a huge outcry :)
Daff
-
So hotseat modeled the stick inputs needed for a supersonic jet aircraft to prevent pilot from killing himself with g-forces to a WW2 turn&burn fighter..
That explains it sufficiently :)
-
Originally posted by Modas
very nice movie. VERY good effects with the exceptions of the tracers. Anyone know if WB3 can be played offline? I'd be willing to try it if that were possible. If I gotta sign up for an account just to try it, then forget it. To much work...
Yes it can Modas. I just downloaded it yesterday actually... not bad. I felt the "mush" everyone talks about and it doesnt bother me that much. The FM is somewhat similar to AH too... only an hour spent offline so far.. I think its a decent sim.
-
Just to clarify, the tracers you see in the movie are not the tracers that come with the sim. The tracer effects are custom files done by Phoenix. I don't particularly care for them either, but the rest of them was very well done.
Cougar
-
The only thing good about Warbirds is the damage model... Thats it.
-
I never thought I would post a request for a feature to be added to AH (or AHII) from WB... but those damage effects (especially the primary/secondary blasts) were outstanding. Pweeeeze? :D
-
Quote:
"The only thing good about Warbirds is the damage model... Thats it."
We think that's the WORST thing about Warbirds III.
But what do we know..........
C.
-
That was one cool movie!!! The soundtrack was perfect for it!!!
:)
-
Wldthing, can I get permission to post that back over at AGW? :)
I could kick up a poop-storm in 5 seconds flat with that one. LOL
I agree the shell casings are probably overkill, but it didn't cost us much FPS wise, so we went nutz. Also, I'm not about to knock phenix's custom effects, they rock, but I do prefer our default tracers to what was in the movie. That said, our defaults need work. I was thinking of going with glowing white "rods" instead but I'm told that is a film effect only and that in RL you could see color. Having never fired 6x.50's in my life... I'd just be guessing which is better.
Y'all.
Matt "TARGET" Davis
Warbirds Game Designer
-
O i dont care... heh
Id post it myself but i just cant get an email notification from you guys to be able to post :) I guess i gotta be a player..
But i did like the way the damage looked.. Looked pretty realistic to some of the WW2 guncams ive seen.
-
Cabby wrote:
What Daff said. WBIII's "tracers" are the most "realistic" of any online sim, and are user configurable as far as size and appearance. "Hit Sprites" the same.
I haven't seen WWII type tracers, but I've seen modern .50's fire tracer rounds. It looks way different than the X-WING type stuff in WBIII. Best I've seen in a game is in IL2 with AH a close second - IL-2 109 tracers are unbelievable. WBIII leaves much to be desired - the explosions and damage effects etc look so good that it's almost like watching a guncam film from real life. Extremely well done - so it is unfortunate that my 'suspension of disbelief' is made impossible by the poorly made tracers. They yank me back to 'it's only cartoon planes on a computer screen'
As far as the "mushbirds" deal, this is a matter of stick scalings. I have very quick control response with my scalings, the FM doesn't feel "mushy" at all to me. For example, the WBIII P-38L rolls quite well, but "feels" like a 16,000 lb. twin engine prop fighter. The F4U and 190 series have wicked roll-rates and i dont feel any "mushyness" at all.
I played around a lot with stick scaling. Even borrowed settings from a friend. While it alleviated some problems, the *initial* roll rate was still horrible. I gather you're right that you really feel the weight of the planes in WBIII - but the initial roll rate is just off.
WWIIOL, AH, and WBIII'S FM's are all pretty-much the same. All the FM's have "holes", that's the nature of the beast. Little differences here and there but you can cover all three with a small blanket. Which game you choose is a matter of personal preference based on price, graphics, gameplay, system reqs, etc.
I'd agree. Unfortunately the lack of initial roll rate is such a huge issue that I won't play it. Initial roll rate is extremely important for setting up a shot. While I believe that AH is a bit lenient on roll rate (almost instantaneously stopping the roll when control input stops), I KNOW that it's wrong in WBIII. A Cessna 172 has got more simple control surfaces than a 190. It isn't optimized for rolling and hard maneuvering. Yet it still has an initial roll rate that's better than the WBIII 190. To make matters worse, it feels a lot crisper when you fly it. It's not just roll rate though - both in AH and WBIII, rudder input is decidedly sluggish and mushy compared to the twin engine Islander I used to go skydiving for. In it, when the pilot used the rudder, it was like an instant SLAM into a new nose position. Might just be good piloting though; the meat bomb driver was known for being able to control that plane and frequently made extremely steep approaches for landing.
I hope they fix it, as alternatives to AH will mean HT and the gang will work weekends to give us more cool stuff in AH :).
On a sidenote, how hard would it be to update AH's graphics? If we assume that we won't mess with the 3d models of planes and just overhaul terrain etc, and add those cool concussion rings to bombs and rockets (AWESOME in WBIII!), it should be doable. I mean, HT has gotten most things he initially wanted up and running now, so a graphics update would be worthwhile.
Although I'd rather have a) bombs for the C202 Folgore and b) a non binary damage model.
-
Yikes! just checked.... they still don't have a view system over at WB's! You can't see in a P40 or look back in a wildcat or hellcat. Course... the 109 is still a very easy plane to see out of just like it was in the war.
target... do you guys still use the wheel-0-leathiality and wheel-0-flight model or do you just go by an agw vote these days?
lazs
-
Wildthing theres nothing special about the DM at wbs. AH has more stuff to shoot off (wing tips etc). They play with 80% lethality and adjust bomber toughness.
Like I said nothing special.
aka....Wotan
-
ah... so they still blindfold the navy guys and spin the wheel-0-leathiality then.
lazs