Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Esme on January 29, 2003, 01:11:20 PM
-
Get rid of the damned thing - it is NOT necessary. Clipboard maps, sure, but no "you are here" marker. Maybe create a dot command
.location
that after a suitable interval returns a message giving a very rough location (or a location with a random inaccuracy up to say, the equivalent of 1 grid square). That way the fighter types that can't be bothered to learn teh terrain can't get badly lost, and those that can be bothered have a last-resort system if they completely lose their bearings during a dogfight. Also acts as an aid to newbie buffers that havent learnt to navigate properly yet.
Then do away with airborne radar in its current form altogether. The only radar available in-flight should emulate the capabilities of what was actually available in-flight. Conversely, make manning the ground radar more of a skill.
The upshot would be that no-one gets hopelessly lost, those that put the wee bit of effort into learning to navigate properly benefit from it (because their navigation will be more accurate), lone fighters wont find it so insanely easy to find buffs and kill them - they'll have to work as a team with other players, to obtain sightings of buffs and corellate that with ground based radar, then assuming they know where they are themselves, work out their heading to target.
Heck, it could even induce folks to fly patrols looking for hostiles and then shadowing them to report their position, as was done in RL. It'd also mean that fighters escorting bomber raids would have an incentive to stay near the buffs - the buffs would more likely know their position accurately than the fighters would.
Oh - and properly DARK NIGHTS. Please. :-)
Esme
-
depends on the detail level of the maps. If its possible can navigate by terrain features (roads, rail, rivers etc) then go for it.
Until then folks need to know where they are so can follow way points etc.
Its not going be very fun wondering aboutr with no clue as to where you are.
-
in a sorta related vein...
I think it would be cool if HTC set up a shop in a 3rd world country and paid 6-12 folks to be "online" for 8 hour shifts 24 hours a day solely for the purpose of acting as sector controllers.
With this we could do away with the inflight dar altogether, and just have a scalable hi-definition map.
F.
-
Maybe click on a friendly base while in flight, and get "bearing and range" info.
-
POPEYE
Good suggestion. like range and bearing as if you contraclted a local radar operations for your location
DarkHawk
-
Originally posted by Wotan
depends on the detail level of the maps. If its possible can navigate by terrain features (roads, rail, rivers etc) then go for it.
Until then folks need to know where they are so can follow way points etc.
Its not going be very fun wondering aboutr with no clue as to where you are.
I know where you're coming from Esme but I have to agree with Wotan. The terrain needs to be of greater detail to navigate properly, especially if AH2 has larger terrains with the same style terrain tiles. Proper roads and rail tracks, rivers and lakes have got to be a must for proper navigation to be successful, especially if the particular terrain has no distinguishing land features.
-
You could have a ground control vectoring you.
Like the old box sims eaw il2 etc........
You could request vector to next way point using a dot command.
.vnext
.vhome
etc.
Have text msg pop up giving you the vector "heading 270"
maybe a position request.
.pos
a msg texts pops up using the standard grid location 12 3 6 etc.
But either way its still "gps" without the map icon.
If you are lookin to simulate true navigation then pre planning is necessary.....
ie we will at 250 mph heading 330 for 6 min then turn to heading 006 for 12 min.......but even then you need good terrain reference to be reasonably confident in your heading.
If you screw up you wont find your way home or the enemy. You end up touring the map until you run out of gas. If its made that difficult to just take off and fly your mission and rtb, then its not gonna have a broad appeal.
-
I know that the RAF used to give their pilots vectors to base via radar and via radio direction finding fixes. The pilot would transmit and the DF equipment would be used to give him a rough course home. Would be cool to have that in the game.
-
isnt looking at the clipboard map basically the same thing?
Except in the visual instead of over the "radio".
The lw was vectored at bomber formations as well.....
You could do away with an inflight map altogether and rely on being vectored by ground controllers completely.......
Either way you know exactly where you are at.
-
Originally posted by funkedup
I know that the RAF used to give their pilots vectors to base via radar and via radio direction finding fixes. The pilot would transmit and the DF equipment would be used to give him a rough course home. Would be cool to have that in the game.
pip sweak
-
From some old posts of mine:
Mission theater: a few more options?
Since the mission theater will likely appeal to the more hardcore grognards in here, would it be possible to have a few more options. These could either be at the arena level (could be set by CMs) or purely at the individual use level (like the f2 icon options). For example:
Instruments that behave realistically under g-load and during violent lateral displacements (especially wet compass). Right now, the fact that the instruments are always dead on really allows people to do things they would never attempt otherwise.
Keep the map, ditch the position marker. The terrain is good enough and rich enough to fly by visual cues. In addition, would it be difficult to have radio beacons tuned to a field/facility's number? With two or three bearings, you could fix your position accurately on the map.
Better radar modeling, with an idea of the strength, bearing and alt of a contact, but no dots on the map.
Slightly more engine management. Right now, people can keep Mil power the whole time and this significantly affects the viability of historical tactics in the arena.
I suppose what I have in mind, is a "wish list" for grognards, and I see the Mission Theater as the perfect way of introducing some of these things that some of us have been asking for since, oh, before we had VFilm for AW DOS GEnie
Mission theater suggestion
Since this is going to be an 8th AF setup, it would be the perfect opportunity to introduce meaningful recon/BDA missions. Just assign a target, an alt range from which to take the picture, a recon camera loadout, a shutter key, and you're good to go. I'd love to see that. Heck, I might set up a Recon Flight in 880 just for that!
-
Maybe down the road in a version not so far away - we can call for position over voice and the computer will return vectors for intercept, rtb, etc...- first we need to fix this AHVoice from crappin out altogether
-
Would be nice to have a "request vector" key of some sort for RTB. Or for intercepting incoming bombers.
Figuring out how to handle attack missions is another story, however. Dunno if there is a reasonable solution that covers all scenarios.
MiniD
-
I really like Popeye's suggestion.
Pick field you want to rtb or fix position from. Give it a control /click or whatever and host msg comes back with compass bearing and rough range.
Triangulate on 2 fields and you know where you are.
Should be available only from friendly fields and with a max range built in.
Beyond range would only get bearing.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
You could have a ground control vectoring you.
Like the old box sims eaw il2 etc........
You could request vector to next way point using a dot command.
.vnext
.vhome
etc.
Have text msg pop up giving you the vector "heading 270"
maybe a position request.
.pos
a msg texts pops up using the standard grid location 12 3 6 etc.
But either way its still "gps" without the map icon.
If you are lookin to simulate true navigation then pre planning is necessary.....
ie we will at 250 mph heading 330 for 6 min then turn to heading 006 for 12 min.......but even then you need good terrain reference to be reasonably confident in your heading.
If you screw up you wont find your way home or the enemy. You end up touring the map until you run out of gas. If its made that difficult to just take off and fly your mission and rtb, then its not gonna have a broad appeal.
I like this idea but I would like to get headings on vox instead. that way you could use your radio for what it was intended for.
-
I love this idea!!!
-
I love this idea with vox or text and think it belongs in the CT or SEA.
otoh, I don't think it belongs in a general arena like the TOD or MA.
a. I don't want to continually hear people ask "where am I?" etc.
b. The MA = newbies facing a steep learning curve as it is.
c. The TOD maps behind the curtain in the briefing room should show the routes and waypoints (Based on my many movie experiences :D ) but I see some players who continually get lost with the system we have now.
d. This would turn every player into a "slide rule pilot" and many will consider this work instead of fun.
Just my opinion.
-
Originally posted by popeye
Maybe click on a friendly base while in flight, and get "bearing and range" info.
Bearing, yes. Range, no. (i think DME was not available during WW2).
Also, bearing information should be available for enemy bases, too. How do you think the Japanese found perl habour - with a compass and a clock? ;)
-
Originally posted by Wotan
If you are lookin to simulate true navigation then pre planning is necessary.....
ie we will at 250 mph heading 330 for 6 min then turn to heading 006 for 12 min.......but even then you need good terrain reference to be reasonably confident in your heading.
With fields 25 miles apart and GS of 250 mph, it takes 6 minutes from one field to another. What do you need planning for that!?
With hardly any wind (and if, extremely well known wind), and the only stuff on the ground spottable beeing airfeilds/vbases that are clearly identifiable with locations on the map, navigation should be very easy.
-
Because you have no visual cue as to where you are btween the 2 fields............
Also if your planning attacks you are purposely trying to avoid enemy fields. Not all fields are 25 miles apart. The reason they are in the main is a gameplay descision to make flight times reasonable. We have no idea what the terrain will look like in AH2:TOD. Events terrains are not set up to get field spacing at 25 mph
Also missions will set waypoints set by the server. Not all waypoints will take you to an airfield.
If you have to flyat heading 280 for 35 mile then tun to 330 for 15 miles you need to be able to judge distance. So you will need to know how long you it takes you to fly 35 miles at xxx speed. etc. Deciding in the air will be too late.
Or else you may miss intercepting the target or get lost totally.
It aint simple as north to field 1 the left to field 2.
aka.....wotan
-
Is this the AH2 board? Ooops. Ok then ;)
Still not too difficult with exactly known wind and precise TAS gauge.
Also, it's enough if one of each flight group is able to do the navigation.
-
Originally posted by Wotan
depends on the detail level of the maps. If its possible can navigate by terrain features (roads, rail, rivers etc) then go for it.
Until then folks need to know where they are so can follow way points etc.
Its not going be very fun wondering aboutr with no clue as to where you are.
Wotan, m'dear... I have mentioned to you before that KG2 back in WB2.77 flew several S3's no-GPS. Barring the last of them, there werent even any roads to follow. And our accuracy was good - we found our targets, bombed the wotsit out of 'em and found our way home, no problem.
Anyone - and I DO mean ANYONE - that thinks that flying no-GPS is too hard should try it first. Make yourself a map of the terrain, print it out, plan some sorties (PROPERLY! That means being able to plan WHEN you will be WHERE and then flying it like that), use your paper map. IMO anyone crying that they dont want to take the trouble to learn the capabilities of their simulated planes doesnt have a place arguing about what is supposed to be a better simulation of WW2 air combat. They can go and debate about what makes a more fun MA, and I'll respect their opinions on that; that's their thing, they know what they want from it, who am I to criticise that? .
But personally, I couldn't care less about what makes a better MA. I care about what makes a better simulation of WW2 air combat. Just bear in mind that if you do a good sim in the first place, you can also put in the "training wheels" for use in the MA for those that want em. Whereas if you make a game that thinks ONLY in terms of the MA and doesnt allow for greater realism... then you're restricting the range of things your game can be used for to the more arcadish end of things, and you upset a whole chunk of the community who'll simply wander off as soon as they find something more realistic (and with greater long-term interest).
Of course, if the TE were tweaked to produce nice outline maps rather like the Glars maps or Max Overlay maps of years gone my in WW2 flight sims, things would be a tad easier... :-}
The .location command I suggested above would give folks a fall-back that hasn't existed in WB or AH before. With THAT in place, navigating would still be very easy. In fact, the .location command, if implemented right, would add an incentive to fighters to fly as a group.
Imagine - big furball has just ended, and our heros start to think about rtb'ing. They wonder where the heck they are. They all do .location. 30 seconds later, the results come back - they get a scatter of dots. Somewhere in the middle of that scatter of dots is the most likely position of their unit 30 seconds before. But meanwhile, each of them knows that their own .location returned a result no more than 25 miles/40km out, so they at least know roughly which way to turn for home.
Now, being pessimistic, let's say that theyve never seen home base prior to taking off on this sortie before, and that there's a 50per cent chance that they will pass within visual range of it (more like 60%, but the probability could be tweaked). If they see home, fine. if they dont, they guess which way to turn. Maybe they land at another friendly base. Wups! that kind of thing happened in real life. What's the biggie?
GPS and unrealistic airborne radar are the two things that kill the realism and make things more like an aracade shooter more than anything else. Both militate very strongly against buff survival. Removing GPS would make fighter pilots think about what theyre doing OUTSIDE OF THE DOGFIGHT for a change, and implementing .location would still mean that no-one could ever get hopelessly lost. Heck, if you're still worried, simulate some kind of radio beacon at airfields. Depending on which way it worked (range or bearing) and how it was implemented, it could even add an interesting feature to MA gameplay (do I ask for a beacon flash from my field, which the enemy can also detect or not?).
Apologies to all my friends (and others) that favour fighters, but c'mon, time to get off the trike and at least go to a bike with training wheels. We NEED the removal of GPS. We NEED the game to allow skills appropriate to bombers to have some meaning in the game (including navigation), and we absolutely NEED to dampen the things that favour fighters over bombers to a ridiculous extent.
IMO. :-)
Esme
-
Originally posted by Wotan
depends on the detail level of the maps. If its possible can navigate by terrain features (roads, rail, rivers etc) then go for it.
Until then folks need to know where they are so can follow way points etc.
Its not going be very fun wondering aboutr with no clue as to where you are.
Wotan, m'dear... I have mentioned to you before that KG2 back in WB2.77 flew several S3's no-GPS. Barring the last of them, there werent even any roads to follow. And our accuracy was good - we found our targets, bombed the wotsit out of 'em and found our way home, no problem.
Anyone - and I DO mean ANYONE - that thinks that flying no-GPS is too hard should try it first. Make yourself a map of the terrain, print it out, plan some sorties (PROPERLY! That means being able to plan WHEN you will be WHERE and then flying it like that), use your paper map. IMO anyone crying that they dont want to take the trouble to learn the capabilities of their simulated planes doesnt have a place arguing about what is supposed to be a better simulation of WW2 air combat. They can go and debate about what makes a more fun MA, and I'll respect their opinions on that; that's their thing, they know what they want from it, who am I to criticise that? .
But personally, I couldn't care less about what makes a better MA. I care about what makes a better simulation of WW2 air combat. Just bear in mind that if you do a good sim in the first place, you can also put in the "training wheels" for use in the MA for those that want em. Whereas if you make a game that thinks ONLY in terms of the MA and doesnt allow for greater realism... then you're restricting the range of things your game can be used for to the more arcadish end of things, and you upset a whole chunk of the community who'll simply wander off as soon as they find something more realistic (and with greater long-term interest).
Of course, if the TE were tweaked to produce nice outline maps rather like the Glars maps or Max Overlay maps of years gone my in WW2 flight sims, things would be a tad easier... :-}
The .location command I suggested above would give folks a fall-back that hasn't existed in WB or AH before. With THAT in place, navigating would still be very easy. In fact, the .location command, if implemented right, would add an incentive to fighters to fly as a group.
Imagine - big furball has just ended, and our heros start to think about rtb'ing. They wonder where the heck they are. They all do .location. 30 seconds later, the results come back - they get a scatter of dots. Somewhere in the middle of that scatter of dots is the most likely position of their unit 30 seconds before. But meanwhile, each of them knows that their own .location returned a result no more than 25 miles/40km out, so they at least know roughly which way to turn for home.
Now, being pessimistic, let's say that theyve never seen home base prior to taking off on this sortie before, and that there's a 50per cent chance that they will pass within visual range of it (more like 60%, but the probability could be tweaked). If they see home, fine. if they dont, they guess which way to turn. Maybe they land at another friendly base. Wups! that kind of thing happened in real life. What's the biggie?
GPS and unrealistic airborne radar are the two things that kill the realism and make things more like an aracade shooter more than anything else. Both militate very strongly against buff survival. Removing GPS would make fighter pilots think about what theyre doing OUTSIDE OF THE DOGFIGHT for a change, and implementing .location would still mean that no-one could ever get hopelessly lost. Heck, if you're still worried, simulate some kind of radio beacon at airfields. Depending on which way it worked (range or bearing) and how it was implemented, it could even add an interesting feature to MA gameplay (do I ask for a beacon flash from my field, which the enemy can also detect or not?).
Apologies to all my friends (and others) that favour fighters, but c'mon, time to get off the trike and at least go to a bike with training wheels. We NEED the removal of GPS. We NEED the game to allow skills appropriate to bombers to have some meaning in the game (including navigation), and we absolutely NEED to dampen the things that favour fighters over bombers to a ridiculous extent.
IMO. :-)
Esme
-
Originally posted by Furious
in a sorta related vein...
I think it would be cool if HTC set up a shop in a 3rd world country and paid 6-12 folks to be "online" for 8 hour shifts 24 hours a day solely for the purpose of acting as sector controllers.
With this we could do away with the inflight dar altogether, and just have a scalable hi-definition map.
F.
Want to try posting something sensible, next time, m'dear? In-flight radar is NOT necessary.
Esme
-
Originally posted by Replicant
I know where you're coming from Esme but I have to agree with Wotan. The terrain needs to be of greater detail to navigate properly, especially if AH2 has larger terrains with the same style terrain tiles. Proper roads and rail tracks, rivers and lakes have got to be a must for proper navigation to be successful, especially if the particular terrain has no distinguishing land features.
Sorry, I KNOW from experience in WB that the terrain does NOT need to be of greater detail. Compare WB2.77 terrain with AH terrain, and contemplate that KG2 in WB could manage perfectly well without GPS and so could at least a couple of the US buff outfits in that game. So could most folks - most just never try. And I've zero real-life experience of aviation navigation, just common sense and basic maths. (I read up on aviation after I'd worked out teh practicalities in WBs) It is nothing like as difficult to do as most people that havent tried it seem to think.
Popeye, your idea has some merit, although maybe just being able to get range from bases might be more interesting. It'd mean folks would have to do a teeny bit of work with their maps.
CCvi..Batz... I have NO idea what you are talking about, and I'm not entirely sure whether at least one of you understand what I'm on about, either. So long as I have paper maps, I dont care whats where. I know how fast my plane goes, I know how long since takeoff, between dead reckoning (flying my heading and timing) and pilotage (looking out the window to see whats nearby on the ground) I can find my way around fine.
I even did this ad hoc (with very little preparation) a few weeks ago in the CT, when the Europe terrain was in there. Douwe flew an Ar234 and I joined as navigator (aye, I know... Ar234s were one-man crew, but we were conducting a navigation experiment). For quite a chunk of our flight we couldnt see the ground at all, and that was the case at our turning point over the Isle of Wight (we flew from Paris to bomb Birmingham and back). Still managed to get there and back OK, avoiding enemy bases, and was only temporarily unsure of position once, on the way back, when I thought we shouldve been over Reading but appeared to be over Swindon.
And - if you dont know how fast your plane CAN fly, then simply fly to a fixed speed. One doesnt HAVE to fly full throttle all the time, and buffs in formation should never do so anyway. As for knowing the relationship between IAS and TAS - c'mon, that's BASIC! (mild wind-up intended ). Put another way, one tiny chart suffices to tell folks all they need to know about that, assuming the atmosphere is always modelled as ISA.
Esme (shutting up now, trying to recover from RSI... :-} )
-
Okies....... :)
How big were the terrains in WB? Will AH2 be 512 x 512 or 1024 x 1024? Better have good navigator otherwise end up bombing France instead of Germany.... hey, that's not so bad afterall! :)
-
I like the real-life 3rd world ground controller Idea the best. Pygmys would be ideal! Though Laplanders,Samoans or french would be acceptable
-
Over emphasis on realism will kill the arena built on it. Look at flight in WWiionline. Most long time online pilots I know can't stand it, and it's not as taxing as Esme would have this.
I have hundreds of hours in military and civi aircraft and really don't think I would want to deal with full WWII realism where navigation is concerned. When I have a couple of hours to burn I want to log on, see what my country needs me to do, and take off. I wouldn't mind having to be a part of a mission or joining up with one in progress, but flight planning?! It won't work IMO.
The majority will require some reasonably attainable knowledge of their loc on the map or they just won't fly that arena.
I want AH to stick around for a long time!
-
You flew over the English Channel Esme you had perfect ground cues to look for (isle of white etc)
Now go to the niemen terrain take off from Danzig and fly to minsk and back. The ground detail isnt there. When 10bears hungary terrain is ready try the same thing.
Of course anyone can navigate using heading and the in plane clock. But the mergin error, especially when attempting to intercept the enemy is great enough to make it boring.
Anyone using math can find there way from point a to b if they put in the effort. Surely anyone can fly from europe across the english channel. But terrains with far less detail this will be far more difficult then need be.
Bombers mission will be filled out with ai so just following the ai to target will be all thats necessary. Now intercepting those bombers in fighters the mission way points need to intersect. If fighters get there early or late or are off course may miss them altogether.
There needs to be way to "vector" to where you need be. My point is it makes no difference if an ai message comes over text saying you are at X X X or "next waypoint is X X X" or if you look at the clipboard and it shows you where you are.
Theres no difference at all except that the immersive effect you get by radio vector.
Ideally the maps we use will be large 512 x 512 with rivers and key towns/industrial areas and maybe roads. But making it too hard to find the enemy is a good way to keep the arena empty.
BTW Batz is Wotan and I think you know I am all for "realism".
I also want the arena to be a success and well populated.
I know us fighter pukes dont consider the bomber piloten but in this case I dont think folks will want to fly around for 40 min touring the terrain with no prospect of finding the enemy.
If the ground detail is there to make accurrate navigation less then a "choir" then by all means I am for it.
Ya know I love ya but give us fighter pukes a break :)
Wotan
-
I don't think this needs to be an all-or-nothing navigation model.
If we think of a BoB scenario. New fighter pilots could start out on intercept missions over their homeland. They'd be over friendly territory, within their own radar (Brits anyway). They could get a radio fix on rough location at any time. Later on, radio direction instruments could be modelled, (like the German AFN2, or the U.S.N system of transmitting a different morse letter in each direction) giving a heading, but not distance. At their most experienced, pilots could be expected to plot their own course.
However, for both fighter and bomber pilots, i'd imagine the junior ranks would not be leading flights, so there would always be other planes to follow.
-
Originally posted by Esme
CCvi..Batz... I have NO idea what you are talking about, and I'm not entirely sure whether at least one of you understand what I'm on about, either. So long as I have paper maps, I dont care whats where. I know how fast my plane goes, I know how long since takeoff, between dead reckoning (flying my heading and timing) and pilotage (looking out the window to see whats nearby on the ground) I can find my way around fine.
What I wanted to say was that navigation doesn't require any effort in the MA, because after TO and climb to 10k in the direction of the nme field it is already possible to see the target.
This I had to withdraw when noticing that this is the AH2 board, but navigation is still easy with the given precisision of the instruments and the constant wind. With fields visible from 10 miles or more and not that long expected flight times to target there wont be much skill required to find a target.
Wotan, what makes you think that with a GPS map you can find the enemy as a fighter? I've never ever seen a map that had enemy aircraft locations printed on in.
-
Wotan, what makes you think that with a GPS map you can find the enemy as a fighter? I've never ever seen a map that had enemy aircraft locations printed on in.
What are you talking about?
In rl even the lw had ground controllers vector them to incoming bomber raids. In BoB the raf were vectored to the incoming lw bombers. To get an accurrate vector the ground controllers needed to know where their planes were. They also had systems by which they could navigate by. Do you doudt this or do I need to fill the thread with such info .to prove it to you?
In these games its would no fun stumbling about trying to find the enemy. If you have 40 min missions that run every 60 min the arena would be a complete bore "hoping" to contact the enemy.
Any type of "vector" system that is incoporated into the game starts with the presumption that your position is known. Whether a system message gives you a vector to the next waypoint or home or to the enemy. Whether you click on a base like popeye said or like esme said in her first post where she suggested .location. In fact its makes no difference if your position is known via the clipboard or system message.
Contrary to what you think neither the bomber pilots nor fighter pilots were completely blind as to where they were. Or to where the enemy was. Do you think a b17 raid could fly across france into Germany unseen and their position unknown to the interceptors?
If you are 3 miles off (or flying to fast, or to slow) of your waypoint after takeoff and further deviate after each way point then you could entirely miss a raid. Finding a ground target in a bomber is much easier because its location never changes.
Now imagine you are on a fighter mission to intercept bombers. The bombers are off their waypoints and off target, so are the intercepting fighters. That would be completely boring.
Esme is a bomber pilot, she enjoys everything from plotting a route to navigating there and back. All fine and good. But this is game that has to be sufficiently fun to keep folks interest.
The best way I can get you understand this is if you've flown any coops in IL-2. In these coops if each side doesnt fly on the way points then the mission most likely ends up being a complete waste of time.
In rl they may not have had a neo clipboard but they had a whole host of ground support and intel that isnt present in the game currently.
No matter what, no icons , no radar, no gps if folks cant find some action the arena will be empty.
I dont wish for inflight radar, or an inflight gps map but these would need to be suplemented by system messages. But I have no idea how much work that would be. Given the "scale" of AH2 I certainly wouldnt want ht to sacrifice new planes or anything else thats more important to make it happen. Whether your position is given by the system or visually shown on the clipboard its still the same thing.
Ideally I would like a
.vnext (for next waypoint)
.vtarget (vector to target)
.vhome (vector to home base)
Plus added system messages that say
"large enemy formation located in sector X X X"
this report could be made at a set time like 5 min etc....
Then you could do away with the clipboard gps markers and inflight radar.
-
If a realistic option is wanted, there should be system generated reports like: multiple aircraft noises spotted at listening post travelling in x direction at x village / town, aircraft visually spotted at lookout tower at xxx id'd as markx etc..
At nighttime the lookouts wouldn't work, only audible information could be passed. Maybe short range radar around the major strategic posts, but even there the locations only via text.
-
not just noises, the allies werent the only ones with radar.
Edit
Also it wasnt "short range"