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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: moose on November 15, 2001, 06:18:00 PM

Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: moose on November 15, 2001, 06:18:00 PM
on his resupply sortie

  (http://www.e-musings.net/images/hiperks.jpg)

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: moose ]
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Rotorian on November 15, 2001, 06:21:00 PM
Good cod almighty!

How big is that pic?  I stopped downloading after 30secs hehehe.
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Raubvogel on November 15, 2001, 06:23:00 PM
for the love of god man, JPEG that thing!!
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: AKSWulfe on November 15, 2001, 06:42:00 PM
GIF is smaller and more legible, as long as you aren't trying to make it look perty.
-SW
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kieran on November 15, 2001, 08:37:00 PM
Gif is not smaller if you run over 256 colors. Index that color, then Gif perhaps.
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: AKSWulfe on November 15, 2001, 08:45:00 PM
GIF's save as 256 colors, that's why they turn out grainy.
-SW
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kratzer on November 15, 2001, 09:07:00 PM
But gifs don't do that wavy line crap that JPGs do... stupid JPGs...
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kieran on November 15, 2001, 09:21:00 PM
But Gifs are not smaller than Jpgs when you run that many colors. Gifs are appropriate for large areas of solid color. Jpgs are used when you have graded areas and blending.

Gonna hafta load up Photoshop at home...  ;)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: majic on November 15, 2001, 09:24:00 PM
115.62 perks!?  How?  :eek:
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kieran on November 15, 2001, 09:34:00 PM
(http://www.nlcs.k12.in.us/deckardb/hiperks3.gif)
This is a 33K Gif.

 (http://www.nlcs.k12.in.us/deckardb/hiperks2.jpg)
This is a 22K Jpg.

They both have the same dimensions. Now the Gif may be more readable in this situation, but it is much bigger.
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Blue Mako on November 15, 2001, 09:40:00 PM
What did you supply to get those points?  Whiskey to the HTC bunker???
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Voss on November 15, 2001, 10:07:00 PM
PNG, portable network graphics.

Stamp out gifs.
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: SirLoin on November 16, 2001, 12:15:00 AM
If I got 115 perks in one mission,I'd post a BIG picture too.. :)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: eskimo2 on November 16, 2001, 03:22:00 AM
115 in a goon!?
wow!, how?

127.5 is my record.  
In a Mossie.


eskimo
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Sky Viper on November 16, 2001, 07:30:00 AM
gif....jpg...bmp...holy cow we can find some crap discussions to get off the topic.  :)

gif sucks when converting high quality multicolor images to lower bandwidth.
gifs often come out larger and a bit more distorted.
Try both, post the best, but by all means, try to reduce the bandwidth hogging.  :)

Points...I resupplied a base last night.  2 Fuel tanks were all that were damaged. Over 12 perkies earned.

Personal oppinion:  WAY to much credit for droping a few boxes when you only get 3-4 points for killing a fighter and smashing the hell out of an enemy base in a B17.

Maybe HT missed a decimal in the formula?

Viper
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: whels on November 16, 2001, 09:36:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2:
115 in a goon!?
wow!, how?

127.5 is my record.  
In a Mossie.


eskimo

Bish hit 1 of the HQ cities yesterday. it was down to 67%, so i thought id try
and bring it up(knew with HT new supply strat itd take 7 trips) to 100%. grabbed a
field supply goon, dropped, rtb, landed and went HOLY #)$()% when i saw the points.

i figure if u resupply a 50% down city it would be about 130 points X 7 trips =
about 950 points  :)

whels
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: AKSWulfe on November 16, 2001, 09:44:00 AM
When I convert AH BMPs down to gif I don't can't use more than 256 colors. It just reverts to the closest color (and hence somewhat grainy), but for the most part- a lot of screenshots still look pretty good in gif format when using just 256 colors.

I can't use more than 256 colors because Paint Shop Pro converts GIFs and always compresses the image to 1 layer and 256 colors.

<shrug>

In this case 256color would look just fine and be smaller than jpg because there's only a handful of colors on screen.
-SW
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kieran on November 16, 2001, 10:23:00 AM
SWulfe-

Not to flog a dead horse, but you're just plain wrong here. The limitation of colors used by Gif is 256 regardless of what editor you use to save it. The reasons to use Gif would include (but not exclusive to):

1. When you have large areas of solid color, and are using less than 256 colors without much blending.

2. When you want to have a transparent background.

When you meet criterion #1 Gifs are indeed smaller. If however (as in this case) you are running a larger palette and and have tons of blending, you will not only have a lower-quality output, but it will also be larger. The two samples I provided for you show what I am talking about. The Gif is 50% larger than the Jpg for the same dimensions.

Sky is right, you can always try both ways and take the example that best suits your needs. You should be aware of when to use the appropriate format in a particular case. In the original picture I could get that down to approximately 125K with acceptable quality, but even that is too large. Web graphics should be limited to probably no more than 40K for a really big graphic in these applications. Smaller is better.  ;)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Chaos68 on November 16, 2001, 11:17:00 AM
ROFLMAO!!!

He posted about his perk pts and everyone is going on about the pic  LOL!!!~!!!


I'm going gooning tonight!

Hey Rooks or Brits Bomb something for me!   :D  :D
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Rude on November 16, 2001, 11:45:00 AM
any of you guys ever heard of high speed internet access...gif...jpeg...big..gi ant...it's all moot.


 (http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kieran on November 16, 2001, 01:38:00 PM
Maybe funny, but it is a valid point. Not everyone has broadband, and those big pics can be a headache. The thing is, with a few extra minutes effort they don't have to "cost" so much in performance. I think it is worth discussing, even if it is off topic. After all, the perfect example of why to optimize sits right on this page. A nearly 1.5MB pic doesn't belong on any BBS- unless I have to hide it from my kids.  ;)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: AKSWulfe on November 16, 2001, 01:58:00 PM
You're right Kieran, I guess it pertains only to older 2D screenshots (from 2D games) that the color dithering in gifs produces smaller images than jpgs.

Thanks for the info.

Although GIFs do look better because it doesn't fudge the icons as much as jpgs do.
-SW
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Lizard3 on November 16, 2001, 02:25:00 PM
Bigger question...what is moose doing with a SS of whels's clipboard?
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: moose on November 16, 2001, 02:40:00 PM
jezeus


how could a flamefest POSSIBLY start in this topic? !
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: AKSWulfe on November 16, 2001, 02:45:00 PM
I'm not flaming anyone, Kieren and I were discussing the pros and cons of GIFs vs JPGs.

I was wrong about the size after conversions.
-SW
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: K West on November 16, 2001, 02:48:00 PM
Moose <shakes head sadly>

Nice try. Answer Lizards question please.

  Westy
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: popeye on November 16, 2001, 02:59:00 PM
Heh.  During a recent gang bang, with my side on defense, I grabbed a Chog and headed for the fray.  On the way, I ran into a NOE B-26 raid headed for our city.  (Hi Rip!   :) )  I kill five of the B-26s and a Spoit, get an assist on a 109, run out of fuel and ditch in friendly territory.  My Perk points... MINUS 5.3.

Guess you've got to know how to pick your ride.    :)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Kieran on November 16, 2001, 03:13:00 PM
Yup, definitely not flaming anyone here, nor did I take anything that way. Simmadahn-na, SIMMAH-DAH-NAH!
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Sky Viper on November 16, 2001, 03:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SWulfe:
When I convert AH BMPs down to gif I don't can't use more than 256 colors. It just reverts to the closest color (and hence somewhat grainy), but for the most part- a lot of screenshots still look pretty good in gif format when using just 256 colors.

I can't use more than 256 colors because Paint Shop Pro converts GIFs and always compresses the image to 1 layer and 256 colors.

<shrug>

In this case 256color would look just fine and be smaller than jpg because there's only a handful of colors on screen.
-SW

Here is how I do it in Paint Shop Pro 7.0

Open the bmp (duh).  Save as .psp (paintshop pro type file) This will save at 24bit.
(Note: PSP saves all the bmp/psp info in memory and dicks up other saves, so...)
Close the picture and reopen the psp file.
Now do a save as .jpg and you should find that the distortion is less than converting from the .bmp
Try the same thing with gif:  Open the .psp file, go to colors - decrease color depth - select 256.  Now do a save as .gif

PSP seems to deal with 24 bit bmp images rather sloppy except to convert them to their own proprietary format. They think they are sneaky, but we know they're just stupid.  ;)

Viper
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Sky Viper on November 16, 2001, 03:49:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moose:
jezeus


how could a flamefest POSSIBLY start in this topic? !

Hmm...I'm kinda blind; could you point out the flamefest?

Don't bother, there isn't one.  This is a good healthy learning experience on BW and file types/conversions.

Viper
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Serapis on November 16, 2001, 04:29:00 PM
You frickin damm GIF lov'in turds! jpeg RULZ!!!

Charon
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: Staga on November 16, 2001, 05:27:00 PM
Nope, bmp's rule.

Nice to have a ADSL. And plenty of web-space  ;)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: NUTTZ on November 16, 2001, 10:50:00 PM
I use Corel, Open it in 24bit, resample it to 8-bit ( you'll notice VERY little difference in color) but a HUGE difference in file size. knock the puppy down to 96 DPI, Export as a JPG with 50% compression and Whalla!!!! clean and the file size is small.

NUTTZ


 
Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper:


Here is how I do it in Paint Shop Pro 7.0

Open the bmp (duh).  Save as .psp (paintshop pro type file) This will save at 24bit.
(Note: PSP saves all the bmp/psp info in memory and dicks up other saves, so...)
Close the picture and reopen the psp file.
Now do a save as .jpg and you should find that the distortion is less than converting from the .bmp
Try the same thing with gif:  Open the .psp file, go to colors - decrease color depth - select 256.  Now do a save as .gif

PSP seems to deal with 24 bit bmp images rather sloppy except to convert them to their own proprietary format. They think they are sneaky, but we know they're just stupid.   ;)

Viper
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: jpeg on November 17, 2001, 09:48:00 AM
LOL


Thats all I have to write about this discussion :-)
Title: Whels makes it big
Post by: eskimo2 on November 17, 2001, 04:36:00 PM
Thanks whels.
Interesting.

Got my 127.5 in the mossie by killing trains, back before the acks on them were activated and every car was made out of nitro.

eskimo