Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on January 29, 2003, 02:17:35 PM
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There are going to be American kids fighting it.
Read this article, and then the link below. It's a way to send carepackages to the guys on the front line, for those who wish to support our boys. (I think it's called Adopt a Sailor...or something)
Below is the story.
SAN DIEGO - It was just around midnight Tuesday night, and the outdoor courtyard at Dick's Last Resort was throbbing with the rowdy energy of a spring break bacchanal. There was loud rock music blaring out of the stereo speakers, and the air was filled with the distinct and somewhat revolting aroma of deep-fried bar food, cigarette smoke and spilled beer. Dick's is the sort of bar-restaurant ideally suited for Super Bowl week mischief, because it has a down-and-dirty roadhouse feel to it. The waiters, waitresses and bartenders are charmingly rude, and the wood floors are covered with sand and all sorts of indistinguishable debris. The
clientele on this evening is a fascinating mix of twenty-something college
kids, thirty-something conventioneers and 40-something Super Bowl
high-rollers.
Yet there was one table in Dick's courtyard Tuesday night that was
noticeably different from the others. There were six young men at the table
and one young woman, and while they were drinking like everyone else in the
room, there was something all too serious going on at this table that let
you know that their thoughts were a long way from the mindless frivolity of
Super Bowl week.
Maybe it was the close-cropped "barracks haircuts" that gave them away. All
the men's heads were cut in that familiar look of a professional soldier,
skin-close on the sides, and on top a tight shock of hair that resembled
new shoe-brush bristles.
"We're Marines," one man told me. "And tomorrow we're boarding a ship for
.
. . well . . . I really can't tell you where, but you know."
Of course we knew. In less than an hour, they would report back to a ship
docked along the Southern California coast, then on Wednesday head across
the Pacific Ocean, bound for a potential war in Iraq. So this was no Super
Bowl party for them. This was their last night out on the town. One Marine
was saying goodbye to his wife. The others were not so lucky. They all just
sat around the table, throwing back beers and wrestling with the sobering
uncertainty of the rest of their lives.
"We're going to war and none of us knows if we're ever coming back," said
another Marine, a 28-year-old from Southern Illinois. They all requested
that I not use their names. "Just tell 'em we're the men of (Marine
Aviation Land Support Squad 39)," they said.
On Super Bowl Sunday, the men of MALS 29 will be watching the game from the
mess hall of their ship. "That is, if we're lucky and the weather is good
and it doesn't interfere with the satellite signal," said the Marine with
the bald head and burnt-orange shirt. "But I gotta tell you, I'm not that
big a sports fan anymore. It's going to be the first pro football game I've
watched in . . . I can't even remember."
Why is that?
"Well, here's my problem with pro sports today," he said. "I don't care
whether it's football, basketball or baseball. Guys are complaining about
making $6 million instead of $7 million, and what is their job? Playing a
damned game. You know what I made last year? I made $14,000. They pay me
$14,000, and you know what my job description is? I'm paid to take a
bullet."
When he said those words, it positively staggered me.
Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.
Not a day goes by that I am not reminded of what a wonderful life I lead.
I
am paid to write about sports and tell stories on radio and television
about the games people play. But sometimes, even in the midst of a grand
sporting event, something happens to put the frivolity of sports into its
proper perspective, and this was it.
Fourteen thousand dollars to take a bullet.
As I sit here writing from my hotel room, I can look out my balcony window
and I see a Navy battleship cutting through the San Diego Bay, heading out
to sea. I can see the sailors standing on the deck as the ship sails past
Coronado Island, the San Diego Marina and the downtown Seaport Village, and
I wonder if any of the men from MALS 39 are aboard.
It was only 12 hours ago that I was sitting at the table with my guys,
buying them beers, and listening to their soldier stories. The Marine from
Southern Illinois who sat to my right pointed to the bald Marine in the
orange shirt who was seated to my left. "You know, I don't even know this
guy, can you believe that? We just met a few hours ago when we came into
Dick's. Oh, I've seen him on the base, but I've never met him before
tonight. But here's what's so special about that man, and why I love that
man. He's my brother. Semper Fi. I know a guy back home, and he is my best
friend. I'm 28 years old and we've known each other all our lives. But
today, that friend is more of a stranger to me than that Marine sitting
over there, who I've never met before tonight. That's why they call it a
Band of Brothers."
The little Marine in the orange shirt lifted his glass toward the Marine
from Southern Illinois and nodded his head. "That's right," he said.
"That's my brother over there, and I'm gonna take a bullet for him if I
have to."
He said it with a calm and jolting certainty. There was a moving, but
chilling, pride in his words.
All around them, people were drinking, shouting and laughing. The college
kids and the conventioneers and NFL high-rollers were living the good,
carefree life. Across the street, a storefront that was vacant two weeks
ago was now filled with $30 caps, $400 leather jackets, $40 mugs and $27
T-shirts with the fancy blue and yellow Super Bowl XXXVII logo embroidered
on it.
From every end of the streets of downtown San Diego's fabled Gaslamp
Quarter, Super Bowl revelers toasted the Raiders and the Bucanneers with
grog-sized mugs filled with beers and rums. But just around midnight in the
middle of the courtyard of Dick's Last Resort, a far more deserving toast
was going up to the men of MALS 39. We clicked our glasses together, and a
few minutes later, they quietly slipped out the courtyard gates.
Suddenly, the Super Bowl didn't seem so important anymore.
To adopt a sailor, use this link:
http://www.operation-enterprise.org/home.htm
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What the heck is "Marine Aviation Land Support Squad"?
Are those the guys sneaking behind the enemy lines to laser-designate the targets for aviation?
Or are those the guys who will service the planes on an airbase in Bahrein or Turkey and who's only chance to see combat is if Iraqi army annihilates US ground combat troops, sinks all the US ships and planes in the region that could possibly evacuate them and then conducts extensive offensive occupying US bases in the region?
As for those guys risking their lives/killing people - if they really do it just for money, would they be worth any more sympathy if it's 14 grand or 14 mil?
Or should we pity poore dupes because they did not really expect to be sent to fight when they enlisted for such a pitifull sum?
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Or are those the guys who will service the planes on an airbase in Bahrein or Turkey and who's only chance to see combat is if Iraqi army annihilates US ground combat troops, sinks all the US ships and planes in the region that could possibly evacuate them and then conducts extensive offensive occupying US bases in the region?
miko
Maybe you should look at certain weapons ranges and their capabilities. I assure you those loser support guys who aren't at the "front" are.
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no, it's more the Marine saying he can't take an athlete or the games they play seriously when those athletes are complaining about only making $6 mil a year, when the guys/gals that keep it so he can make money playing a game make far less, and are generally underappreciated (tho that part has changed a bit since 9/11.)
I don't watch or like baseball anymore for the same reason. An NFL team is restricted to $75 mil for 54 players. Baseball players threatened to strike because the owners wanted to put a luxury tax (not even restrict) spending over $100 mil (or whatever the figure was) on 25 players. If the NFL, NBA, NHL (and even moreso, our soccer players) can deal with salary caps and making "less" money, why can't the prima donna baseball players?
Regardless, I don't think the guy was saying "feel sorry for me because I only make $14,000" as much as he was saying "I can't respect someone who complains about 6 mil vs 7 mil for playing a game."
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A park near my home is named after a "Ground Support" soldier who was killed when a scud missile hit her barracks.
They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy! :mad:
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Your missing the point.
These men and women are doing something most of us cannot or are unwilling to do. Right are wrong, they are following orders and adhering to their oaths, and going into harms way.
I'll be the first to admit, I did'nt have the balls to join the military, though I wish I did, so I admire, respect, and will support those who did, in any way I can afford.
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If it's the one that hit the barracks in Saudi, I was there and I watched it hit. It hit right across the street from our motorpool at the time..
(I believe there was only one that hit barracks full of marines in Saudi)
Originally posted by midnight Target
A park near my home is named after a "Ground Support" soldier who was killed when a scud missile hit her barracks.
They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy! :mad:
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Go kick their tulips and get home safe!
to all who are on their way.
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They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy!
Easy - I do not know. Much less dangerous - yes, certainly. The level of danger is exactly quantifiable. After the war, compare the mortality among combat troops with mortality among rear-echeon support, adjusted for mortality rate during peacetime.
If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Easy - I do not know. Much less dangerous - yes, certainly. The level of danger is exactly quantifiable. After the war, compare the mortality among combat troops with mortality among rear-echeon support, adjusted for mortality rate during peacetime.
If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.
miko
Maybe you should pull up those numbers for the Gulf War. I bet the rear areas had more casualties. (deaths at least).
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I wish I had a high I.Q. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by miko2d
Easy - I do not know. Much less dangerous - yes, certainly. The level of danger is exactly quantifiable. After the war, compare the mortality among combat troops with mortality among rear-echeon support, adjusted for mortality rate during peacetime.
Much less dangerous? You don't know much about tactical aviation, do you? Marine squadrons often fly from carriers.
There are few places more dangerous to work than the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. At night. Now add "warloads" on all jets and a packed bomb farm.
Been there, done that (in a war zone)...I've watched men die for their country right there on the flightdeck. So shut the diddly up about something you know nothing about.
Originally posted by miko2d
If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.
miko
I resent you. So there.
Clueless diddly.
I support ALL the troops. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines.
They don't do it for the money. I sure as hell didn't.
-Smut
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Marine aviation also operates very close to the front lines. AV-8 and helo squadrons are set up to use forward operating bases. It's definitely a possible scenario that units like this could be overrun by enemy units. AFAIK everybody in the USMC has a rifle.
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U.S. casualties: 148 battle deaths, 145 nonbattle deaths
Army: 98 battle; 105 nonbattle
Navy: 6 battle; 8 nonbattle
Marines: 24 battle; 26 nonbattle
Air Force: 20 battle; 6 nonbattle
Women killed: 15
U.S. wounded in action: 467
British casualties: 24, nine by U.S. fire
British wounded in action: 10
French casualties: 2
French wounded in action: 25 (estimated)
Allied Arab casualties: 39
Allied combat air sorties flown: More than 116,000
Coalition aircraft losses: 75 (63 U.S., 12 Allied)
Fixed wing: 37 combat, 15 noncombat (U.S. losses -- 28 combat, 12 noncombat; no U.S. losses in air-to-air engagements)
Helicopters: 5 combat, 18 noncombat (all U.S.)
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/
unrelated: (Apparently women don't belong to any of the armed forces according to stupid bellybutton CNN.)
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Originally posted by Nifty
Regardless, I don't think the guy was saying "feel sorry for me because I only make $14,000" as much as he was saying "I can't respect someone who complains about 6 mil vs 7 mil for playing a game."
Bingo.... I have the same attitude. Don't get me wrong, the military is chock full of sports fanatics and I'd be the last one to turn down the offer of a cool million because I can bounce a ball really good lol. I'm just one of those who ceased to take any sport any more seriously than what it was... a game.
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Originally posted by miko2d
They are all going into harms way, and I resent any implication that some might have it easy!
If every REMF claims that his job is taking bullet for his country, it diminishes the merit of guys who really get shot at. That's what I resent.
miko
Screw it... clueless loser aint worth it.
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As a Marine, you are first and foremost a Rifleman. Every Marine coming out of boot camp has learned basic combat skills, which include becoming proficient at firing the M16. I don't care what MOS you chose, if you can't fire a rifle, you don't make it through boot.
Every Marine, whether he be in the rear with the gear, or on the front line charging the enemy, has taken an oath to defend his country. Each and every one has earned the right to say that he could, and would, take a bullet for another Marine. That's just the way we are. I was a ground pounder. 0311. And I had just as much respect for the guys out back as for the ones standing next to me.
Semper Fi.
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Miko, sravni s nashim "da tak, pri shtabe sluzhil" (c) "Brat". Esli ne smotrel perviy film - cherkni, ya na ftp polozhu, on gorazdo sil'nee chem vtoroy.
Kanth, combat losses in a REAL war can't be lower then losses during full-scale trainings and maneuvers. Hint: your official numbers are an outright lie.
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Miko, I can no longer respect anything you say...
HOWEVER...
I decided to pull the duties of a Marine Aviation Land Support Squadron from current US Marine doctrine:
"The major tasks include conducting operational planning for MAGTF direct air support operations; receiving, coordinating, and processing immediate requests for air support; providing equipment, facilities, and personnel for operation of air support elements; and maintaining continuous control of direct air support while displacing."
In otherwords, they're humping it on the front lines calling in airstrikes while under fire. These guys have an INTENSE job.
I'm also pretty sure you should rethink what you say about the rear elements in a possible Iraqi conflict:
In the open desert (front lines near Baghdad), the United States military dominates in maneuver, target identification, and delivery of munitions. There are only 2 things Iraq can do to hope to deal enough damage to American forces to trigger a desire to leave: 1. dig in around the cities (taking care to put defenses on schools/hospitals/etc. 2. use their short range balistic missiles (150 km) to take out enemy rear operations with nuclear/biological/chemical weapons.
From my view, if a war with Iraq lasts longer than a couple weeks, most of the casualties will be rear line american troops.
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(http://members.cox.net/barking.pig/images/Signatures/dlr.jpg)
I love that place.
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Boroda, none of those numbers represent non-war training and manuvers.
Originally posted by Boroda
Miko, sravni s nashim "da tak, pri shtabe sluzhil" (c) "Brat". Esli ne smotrel perviy film - cherkni, ya na ftp polozhu, on gorazdo sil'nee chem vtoroy.
Kanth, combat losses in a REAL war can't be lower then losses during full-scale trainings and maneuvers. Hint: your official numbers are an outright lie.
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Originally posted by Puke
I love that place.
Yeah, that is a great place. I'm surprised it was open. During the last San Diego SB, it was rented out and reserved for private parties. So many of the Gaslamp restaurants were holding closed corporate events that we could only get in at Hooters. And that was great because San Diego has a very talented workforce for such establishments.
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I guy I work with just shipped out. He is a tank commander (M1A1). Strange feeling shaking his hand and saying "Good Luck"
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.01
Anyone in the armed services reguardless of MOS - Your job is one of a soldier. Take 63H in the army. My old MOS. You work on track vehicles - Tanks. Those tanks do not have to be in the rear. Sometimes it is easier to ruck up and fix it in the field.
Everyone is trained as a soldier. Any given time you drop your typewriter - tools - pencils - whatever and grab a M-16
.02
With us looking like we going to war my feelings on it if anyone cares - I personelly(SP) do not think that we should go. This is going by just what I know. Other info may be present that warrents military action. However, once being in the service I feel this way:
I have an American Right to think and say - I feel we should not go. I think it is a mistake at this time. BUT - If we do go over there I will back those people up 100%. I wish to God I was in shape and did not smash my knee up working on duty. If I did not I would of joined back up on 9/12/01.
GL Armed service people overseas in Iraq and other places others don't think about. My prayers are with yall.
My 2 cents
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Originally posted by weazel
I wish I had a high I.Q. :rolleyes:
But you're just a pathetic, lefty-liberal, commie, socialist, unpatriotic, psychotic, hand-wringing person to go along with your low IQ....or so I've read here on this BBS. It must be right as we have all these experts sitting in judgement of your mind and character ;)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
But you're just a pathetic, lefty-liberal, commie, socialist, unpatriotic, psychotic, hand-wringing person to go along with your low IQ....or so I've read here on this BBS. It must be right as we have all these experts sitting in judgement of your mind and character ;)
JMHO but I think weazy has more patriot in his little finger than most folks ever hope to dream about having.
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Originally posted by jonnyb
As a Marine, you are first and foremost a Rifleman. Every Marine coming out of boot camp has learned basic combat skills, which include becoming proficient at firing the M16. I don't care what MOS you chose, if you can't fire a rifle, you don't make it through boot.
Every Marine, whether he be in the rear with the gear, or on the front line charging the enemy, has taken an oath to defend his country. Each and every one has earned the right to say that he could, and would, take a bullet for another Marine. That's just the way we are. I was a ground pounder. 0311. And I had just as much respect for the guys out back as for the ones standing next to me.
Semper Fi.
The above statement should explain it well to all who have not served.
HOOO-AAHH
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Originally posted by Tumor
JMHO but I think weazy has more patriot in his little finger than most folks ever hope to dream about having.
Absolutely! Seems some on this BBS are confused about definitions of certain words. If anything what we need are more people like weasel in our administration. I'd sure feel a heck of a lot safer about our Constitution and Bill of Rights....and our perception of us by other countries.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
But you're just a pathetic, lefty-liberal, commie, socialist, unpatriotic, psychotic, hand-wringing person to go along with your low IQ....or so I've read here on this BBS. It must be right as we have all these experts sitting in judgement of your mind and character ;)
This just in... agreeing with the current presidency doesn't make you a patriot.
There is nothing more American than dissent.
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Juat my 2 cents worth here on this.
First, Smut, well said. Not everyone goes to the front but the front isn't always the most hazardous area. The front also happens to change positions rapidly and can reappear way in the rear. That is a job for those folks who parachute in as well as those who break through.
Miko, you are way out of line here and have shown yourself in need of a reality pill. Please go te one as you have no idea about what you are talking about. See the above paragraph, then recall simple little facts like artillery and airborn munitions. Also keep in mind that quite a few "REMFS" are support folks who spend a considerable amount of time UP FRONT supporting, supplying, repairing and recovering those front line troopies.
Boroda, Try to understand that the US, unlike the previous administration you lived under, does not look at training casualties as an acceptable "risk". Training fatalities are in fact rather rare here which is why they get such press. In your area of the world a lost troopie wasn't a big deal. It is to us, so before you spout off about any "facts" about casualty rates you can't have any knowledge of, just simply STFU. I speak from experiance as I was "in the business" to include planning and executing training and you were not.
Final point. If that young Marine thinks he is paid to "take a bullet" he is in serious need of retraining. That is NOT his (or her) job. His job is to make the ENEMY take a bullet. A dead Marine is of no use to his country. A live Marine is and will be able to perform a mission for his country. Dead, he is just a liability. Patton said it best. Your job is not to die for your country but to make the other poor son of a squeak die for his!
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Sweet.
Originally posted by Maverick
Final point. If that young Marine thinks he is paid to "take a bullet" he is in serious need of retraining. That is NOT his (or her) job. His job is to make the ENEMY take a bullet. A dead Marine is of no use to his country. A live Marine is and will be able to perform a mission for his country. Dead, he is just a liability. Patton said it best. Your job is not to die for your country but to make the other poor son of a squeak die for his!