Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funked on June 11, 2000, 01:00:00 AM

Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 11, 2000, 01:00:00 AM
If I blow a bunch of parts off a bandit, and he crash lands in front of me, it should be a kill regardless of whether he survives the crash landing.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: hblair on June 11, 2000, 01:05:00 AM
Maybe they oughta give points for a "forced ditch" or something to the victor. Maybe not points for a full blown kill.

Pyro did say he worked on the lack of difficulty of ditching for 1.03.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 11, 2000, 01:07:00 AM
Is this a WW2 sim?  If so, let's use WW2 kill scoring.  None of this "Forced Ditch" bullshnit.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: hblair on June 11, 2000, 01:10:00 AM
LOL! you're camped out here tonight huh?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Ok, maybe give points for a kill to the victor, but do'nt penalize the ditcher?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: bloom25 on June 11, 2000, 01:14:00 AM
I know what you mean...  Last night I had 4 guys ditch on me after I took off 1/2 a wing or got their rudder, engine, etc.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)


I think that if someone is forced to ditch from damage caused by an enemy, that should at least be 1/2 kill.



------------------
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: gatt on June 11, 2000, 02:49:00 AM
Welcome in the scoring system jungle guys. This something that make me really PO  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: snafu on June 11, 2000, 03:48:00 AM
Hi All,
I Don't give a s**t about the score but if you take someone out of the fight (even if they are just forced to land off field with no damage but engine) you should get the "victory x by ......... message"

IMO

TTFN
snafu
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: StSanta on June 11, 2000, 03:56:00 AM
How often does it happen to you guys? It happens to me, but not too frequently. Still, it's irritating when a bandit can land with a wing missing.

And please don't tell me it is "representative damage" i.e that it's just because AH not yet displays bulletholes etc. If that was the case, it would be the same for most aircraft, and anyone who argues this case shoould try controlling, let alone landing, a 109G10 with just a missing wingtip.

------------------
StSanta
II/JG2
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/santa.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: easymo on June 11, 2000, 03:58:00 AM
 I have read accounts of ditched planes. The pilot walked away. And the plane was repaired and put back in service. Maby you should be awarded a I TOOK UP SOME OF THERE TIME message.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: hblair on June 11, 2000, 04:46:00 AM
LOL easymo, thats some good stuff there  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 11, 2000, 04:55:00 AM
Just because a plane was repairable doesn't mean it wasn't shot down.

I see your point, but I thought the idea was to simulate WW2 air combat?  If that's not the idea, then count me out.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: hblair on June 11, 2000, 04:59:00 AM
hey!!, where did that touchy feely smiley go??  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 11, 2000, 05:09:00 AM
You're hallucinating, go to bed.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Mury on June 11, 2000, 06:41:00 AM
Uh, 'scuse me, but Funked, uh Cpt realism sir?

if this is WWII you don't GET all your kills, if no-one's around to confirm your story, or you're too busy to watch him smoish into the ground.....

IF this is WWII....

PS..pblblblblblblblt
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: juzz on June 11, 2000, 07:03:00 AM
All you need is guncam evidence and a witness - I believe Funked is "friendly" with the sheep of AHland, they'll vouch for him!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Swager on June 11, 2000, 08:36:00 AM
What about the ditching behind enemy lines.  Pilot gets captured, but victor pilots gets no kill.  Weird.

------------------
Swager
XO   I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 (http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://members.tripod.com/JG2/)

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Hooligan on June 11, 2000, 09:06:00 AM
scuse me Mury:

If they had perfect information in WWII (like the host does) they would not have hesitated to use it  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).

When you force down an enemy aircraft it should count as a kill.  That's how they scored it in WWII.

Hooligan
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 11, 2000, 10:48:00 AM
People are hitting the wrong target. Guys got upset yelling at the ditching too easy because they don't get a kill for that.

That's not the solution, give a kill for someone ditching and let people who ditch survivability non altered.

Salute to AH communauty.
"Fear the Niki Devil hihihi."
------------------
Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
   (http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/SFRT-AH-LOGO.jpg)    www.sfrt.net (http://www.sfrt.net)

[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Mury on June 11, 2000, 12:06:00 PM
Nope, nope,nope nope.

Funked and I have a long running dialogue about the function of historical and real.

WWII=historical. Historically speaking they were not able to count all the aircraft that they knocked down, also....they would count the same aircraft twice, so let's really raise a ruckus and suggest two things, sometimes you won't get credit for a kill (baby..pblblblbltg) and sometimes TWO guys'll get credit for a kill

(say there's a tremendous amount of smoke and damage and the aircraft remains flying for a time, and the 2nd guy whacks him to death)

or

Perhaps no kill scoring, only points a la the Luftwaffe(If I got that right) both'd be indicative of WWII.

perfection, would not be....   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

let the inferno begin!


[This message has been edited by Mury (edited 06-11-2000).]
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Nash on June 11, 2000, 12:34:00 PM
Just a technical question here:

Some guy is screamin' along, headin' home. It's a 51... and we ALL know they aint interested inna fight  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). But he spots yer plane in his path, and throws a bit of lead at ya, scorin' a ping or two, no damage to speak of. And whoosh he's off on his merry way. 20 minutes later, you decide ya better bring it home, being short on fuel. Somehow, ya blow the landing... a little too hard. Yer left gear snaps and ya whirl around, coming to a stop on the grass a few feet left of the runway.

Kill of you to the 51?
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Dinger on June 11, 2000, 01:39:00 PM
Nash, that's a weak argument, since your argument runs:
B (Ditching off the runway) is porked.
Fixing A (ditches don't count as kills) will make B worse.
Therefore let's not fix A.

when it should be:
Let's fix A and fix B accordingly (Ditches out of sight of the attackiing enemy shouldn't count as kills).
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: BotaBing on June 11, 2000, 01:47:00 PM
Kill Scoring is something that has really frustrated me.

I'm engaged in a fight, we have been going for 5 minutes, adn right as I get in position to fire, someone drops in from above and wipes the guy out.

He only got that shot because I worked the guy into position, and I get nothing for it??

Seems kind of unfair.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 11, 2000, 03:48:00 PM
Nash, the discussion was centered about giving a kill to people ditching when u still around, so I belive that ur example doesn't apply.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Nash on June 11, 2000, 04:23:00 PM
Frenchy - I didn't see anyone mention that.

If that's the case maybe we should talk about the range at which this ditch score thing will take effect.

And Dinger, I didn't see anyone mention that ditching off of the runway is porked. The fact is - it's what we currently *have*.

So until that's 'fixed', and someone comes up with an idea about a ditching plane's range from the attacker before it's called a safe ditch, then my scenario still holds.

Sayin' ya want the ditchin' thing to translate into a kill is all good. But how specifically do ya want this thing to be handled?
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Nash on June 11, 2000, 04:32:00 PM
And ok, lets assign a range at which you get awarded a kill if someone yer attacking ditches. For argument's sake, lets say at roughly icon range - 8.0.

Now - ya damage a guy and he's going in. Before he ditches you are killed. Is the ditch-kill now awarded to the plane nearest the ditcher? 8k away from the fight who had nothing to do with the plane's reason for ditching? Is this any more realistic when held up to the standards for awarding kills in WWII?
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 11, 2000, 05:40:00 PM
Kill is awarded to the guy who damaged him most.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Suave1 on June 11, 2000, 09:26:00 PM
The host knows whether or not you are in enemy territory. Thats why we get, "You have been captured" and "You have ditched", messages If you take any damage and ditch in enemy territory you should be counted as a kill . And with the upcoming patch it's supposed do be more difficult to ditch a plane without damaging it . This may discourage the infuriating act of ditching unscathed in the middle of an engagement with the old "ran out of fuel" excuse . If you loose one of you counties aircraft becuase you ran it out of fuel, you deserve to be a pow .
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: iculus on June 11, 2000, 10:06:00 PM
Perhaps you should only get a "kill" for a ditch if you are in viewing range.

two cents worth (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

IC
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: HaHa on June 11, 2000, 11:03:00 PM
Alot of us don't give a danm about the score. Personally I LIKE ditching the way it is. It gives you a reason to try and survive (i.e. show that guy who shot you that you can land). Otherwise you might as well just bail or whatever.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Ripsnort on June 12, 2000, 08:00:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by funked:
Is this a WW2 sim?  If so, let's use WW2 kill scoring.  None of this "Forced Ditch" bullshnit.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-11-2000).]

Okay, if you want WW2 scoring...then if you get killed, you're banished from the sim for life, no replanes.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 06-12-2000).]
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Dinger on June 12, 2000, 08:19:00 AM
Here's what we want:
A. Kills should be awarded irrespective of whether the killer is still alive at the time the kill is registered.
B. Ditches with damage should count as kills, provided (1) there is an enemy aircraft (not necessarily the killing one either) within icon range and (2) the ditch is not on the grounds of an airfield (Botched landing).
C. Any scoring system in a WWII combat simulation should not try to emulate precisely that of WWII: We don't want inflated kill stats and USB-connected cannons to ventilate losing pilots.  Rather, it should emulate within the limits of the possible what the ideal system was.  That is, ideally WWII combat kill stats reflect the number of planes downed -- ditched or destroyed -- by a given pilot or pilots.

That's how I'd implement it.  To argue that "it's no good, because there are other problems as well", or to say "Well, if you want it REALLY realistic, why don't you shoot yourself in the head?" is to justify the current system as somehow equitable.  It's a game, and the rules should be as fair as possible, and should encourage appropriate behavior.  (Oh my god! quick whack him before he ditches and robs me of my kill!)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Saintaw on June 12, 2000, 08:33:00 AM
I like to cripple planes, as they will have to try & fly back to base for a landing...(Usualy they're left good enough for landing only, no longer fighting capable...) Takes 'em a lot more time before they get airbourne again, thus...less cons in the Air fer me & my buddies...thus more time to get to the Strat point we want to get to  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

It's just like the Olde 5.52 Vs 7.65 mm ...It's best to wound your opponent than to Kill him  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

That's my 2 cents only tho...
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: AKDejaVu on June 12, 2000, 09:08:00 AM
After every flight, we should have to fill out a flight report.  In it, we claim kills.  If we can provide gun-cam footage to support our claim, we get the kill.  Other than that it is up to higher ups to decide if a kill is awarded based on eye-witness verification.

Till then... live with the current setup.

AKDejaVu
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: easymo on June 12, 2000, 11:34:00 AM
 I like the idea of a message that says XXXXX FORCED A DITCH. That way everyone knows you should have had a kill, but you blew it.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: hblair on June 12, 2000, 11:37:00 AM
ROFLMAO Easymo!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 12, 2000, 05:44:00 PM
LOL that would be great for the Easymo Arcade Arena for the Aeronautically Challenged.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: funked on June 12, 2000, 05:46:00 PM
HaHa said:  "Otherwise you might as well just bail or whatever."

Which is precisely what guys did in the war!  Again, are we looking for a WW2 Sim or some kind of Fantasy Grabass Arena?
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Greg 'wmutt' Cook on June 12, 2000, 06:15:00 PM
Brings up an interesting point:  Sunday a fellow squadie and I were trading shots with a B-26.  We forced him to ditch, at the expense of my engine.  I turned to glide towards home and saw a couple of enemy fighters closeing, so faced with an unwinnable fight, I bailed.  The ditched buff got a kill of me because he was still in the plane chating over the radio.
While this isn't a big deal to me, I can see how it might peeve some people  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

wmutt
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Dinger on June 12, 2000, 07:21:00 PM
wmutt, even if the b26 had been blown to pieces, he should have gotten the kill.  That's how it should work.  And it's a hell of a lot better to give the kill to the guy who disabled you than to the late-arriving carrion-picking dweebs who shoot your disabled A/C.
Title: Kill Scoring
Post by: Greg 'wmutt' Cook on June 13, 2000, 07:34:00 PM
Yes I agree, I think the kill should have gone to the bomber, I just think it odd that if he had not stayed in his aircraft, he the kill would not have been credited to him.