Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaz on February 03, 2003, 12:27:14 PM
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Some planes I'd like to see in AH2
Ki43 IIa "Oscar"
J2M3 "Jack"
Ki84 1a/1c "Frank"
Ki100 I Ko "Tony"
And finally a heavy bomber for the Japanese, the G4M2 "Betty"
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Kawasaki Ki-102b
Type Ground-attack aircraft
Engine 2 x 1.500 hp Mitsubishi Ha-112-II
Performance
Max speed 580 km/h
Service ceiling 11.000m
Range 2.000 km
Weight
Empty 4.590 kg
Max 7.300 kg
Armament
57 mm Ho-401
2 x 20 mm Ho-5 cannon
12,7 mm machine-gun
2 x 250 kg
Dimensions 15,57 m
Span 11,45 m
Length
Height 3,70 m
Operator IJAAF
this one too:)
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The Grace to:)
The Betty has the same bomb and torp load as the Peggy we have now(so close it aint worth arguing over). The Peggy is the Best Japanese Bomber we could of hope to get, and I am very Happy we got it. I see no real reasion to spend time modeling the Betty at present when their are so many other wholes in the Japanese plane set. Certainly an Emily would be far more usefull than a Betty.
But as key said the Ki 102 would rock hard, and very usefull in the MA and the CT.
We realy Nead an A6M3 for our Solomns erar setings in the CT, the added firpower of the Type 99MK II cannon with 100 rpg will realy help balance things out's air to air(as much as we could hope for), also it's improved High spead handeling traits wil help the Japanese players manuaver at spead a bit better.
The Oscars would be nice to"flesh out" the plane set but their extreamly light aramement of only two 12.7mm Ho-103 mg's will make them Hanger Quees I think.
From a players prespective, looking at the plane list in the Virtual hanger the following would be most helpfull for a 42/43 slot/New Gunine Japanese plane set.
Ki 45, While I would personaly prefer to see the Ki 102, the Ki 45 would add much in the way of firpower to the Japanese plane set's for the CBI and SWPA in late 42 and 43.
Ki-61-1b,The Tony saw service entry along the North coast of New Gunnie in early 43, a good modl to be included would be one with the 20mm MG 151's cannons, as apposed to the 4 12.7mm MG's This early model of the Tony would make for a Very Nice Early War Japanese Army Fighter, much more servicable for the average player than the Oscar. With this adation we could get away from using the later model Tony we curently have and thusly avoid having to place out of place US machines in our Early war Slot set up's in the CT.
H8K, This would add so much I cant even begine to cover it's coolness.
I mentioned the A6M3 above.
D4Y2, small detchaments of the D4Y2 begaine to be placed on Japanese Cariers in the Autom of 42. This would Give the Japanese side a very Usefull Tool, the fastest Carier born Dive Bomber Of WW2 and a truly Fantastic airplane, it would add much to their arsenal.
Realy If we got the A6M3, the D4Y2, the early Tony and a Ki 45, all would well and good for the early Pac Plane set balance wise, while I like the Oscar it would not help anything in terms of plane set balance and would be little used, those 4 planes would all see much use.
For the Later War Perioud:
I would Skip the Jake, I was in all respect's inferiour to the George, and the Japanese Navy basicaly canceled it in Favore of the George, they are also prety much in the same time frame.
Obviously a Ki 84 is a must.
If we get a later model D4Y2, that could bridge the gap between late war and early war this would be great, since this plane is primarly a Ground/ship atack weapon using a later model would not be a big issue and it would kill two birds with one stone.
A Grace would be imo the Best all around late war Japanese Strike platform to hope for, great speead, Handeling aramamnt and a usefull bombload make this plane the only logical choice.
A Ki 102 would be nice as well.
Realist whishfull thinking would reduce this list to the Ki 84, and the Grace, for late war.
Over all best Choice for :
1 Japanese plane added: Ki 84 (politics it is wanted bad)
2 Japanese Planes added: Ki 84, A6M3
3 Japanese Planes added: Ki 84,A6M3,D4Y2
4 Japanese Planes added:ki 84, A6M3,D4Y2,Ki 61-1b
I cant even begin to hope for more than that in the next Vershion.
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A note on Bombers, adding any Japanes bombers(other than a H8K), presently without adding the approparate Allied equilvent bombers for the same time perioud, would do more harm than good. Presently a crazy parity existes in the Bomber relm for PAC set up's. Allied Bombers are very tough and fast and extreamly well armed since they are mostly much later models than what the A6M2 would of seen in theater at this tme. For the Japanese Peggy the same is true in part, it is faster than most allied fighters that would be time approparate for the Slot and New Gunnie(except the F4U-1), and has a decent defensive aramament, comperable in the rear quarter to that wich the Betty could muster. The Peggy is prety easy to kill if you get in gun range with US 50cal weapons, as was the Betty, granted it is not the torch the Betty was it is still easy to kill. Realy the Allies have it much better in the I want to that Buff Catagory, presently, than the Japanese do.
So in Short I presently want no New Buff's for Japane as their production time would sap time away from the more presing issues, of the Magic 4:
A6M3,Ki 84, Ki61-1b,D4Y2....and the Ki 45:) I know I said 4 but I have a big apatite:)
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As long as we are dreaming here. :)
H8K Emily available from ports only.
Rufe (zero on floats) the same way for port defence.
For the rest I agree with brady.
His list makes a LOT of sense.
Does any other sim have the ki-45 modeled?
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Again with the "Better plane" thang! *chuckle* ;)
As much as I admit that all scenarios are fantasy ... they shouldn't be forced to use plane models that have to replace the historical planes that flew in the battles. That's the point of most people asking for a certain plane to be modeled from what I've seen (I know it is in my case). Being told time and again that adding "such and such" plane is a waste of time because that side already has a better plane modeled for the game is a little annoying. (Not mad, just wondering why the MA mentality has such a hold on this community when there's so much potential for scenarios in AH).
When I first saw arguments against "plane substitution" for scenarios in AH I thought "Alright, they'll be glad to model the right ones for scenarios and other events" .... now I see certain planesets for certain maps using substitutes ... apparently because "we won't even consider modeling redundant or inferior models because they won't be used in the MA" type of arguments.
Brady ... you'll shock and amaze me if ever I see you supporting a certain plane modeled because there were actually more of them used than a "better" one during the war. ;)
Oh well .... salute! :D
Originally posted by brady
The Grace to:)
The Betty has the same bomb and torp load as the Peggy we have now(so close it aint worth arguing over). The Peggy is the Best Japanese Bomber we could of hope to get ....
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The thing is that modeling a bomber presently would asorb so much development time and take away from what are realy presing plane set adation choices in terms of production time that I cant suport or enchurage that, as it is, or it would be to the determent of us all.
I did suport the adation of the Earler model Tony up thier, not the later one, I also mentioned the adation of earler model US planes like the P38F above as well. And My emphisis in that list is clearly to the earler Pacific War Planeset, not the later one, all the choices except the Ki 84 are geared toward fleshing out the most popular part of the CT and as far as I can tell CM planeset issues which are the 42/43 planeset's for Japan and the Allied Pacific area.
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Well ... .that ya did. Ok. Ahem.
;)
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Does anyone think Bradys post resembles the Sunday "jumble".
I love ya man......:)
Sweat Jesious..........
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Wasn't gonna go there. lol ....
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Originally posted by Arlo
Brady ... you'll shock and amaze me if ever I see you supporting a certain plane modeled because there were actually more of them used than a "better" one during the war. ;)
There were only 3,514 Ki.84s built and used in WWII. Seems to me that is enough to warrant its inclusion.
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If you had bothered to read what I was quoting you might have noticed I was dealing specifically with the Betty vs the Peggy. ;)
"The G4M- Allied reporting-name "Betty" - was the main heavy bomber of the Japanese Navy during World War II."
"Total production of the G4M was 2,479 - a remarkably high figure for a Japanese medium or heavy bomber. "
http://ussessex.bravepages.com/betty.html
"Although in operational service for less than a year, the Ki-67 Type 4 heavy bomber (Allied code name 'Peggy') proved to be one of the Japanese Army Airforce's most effective and versatile aircraft."
"Num. Produced 698 (Total) "
http://www.214th.com/ww2/japan/ki-67/
But hey .... :D
Originally posted by Karnak
There were only 3,514 Ki.84s built and used in WWII. Seems to me that is enough to warrant its inclusion.
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You're right. I was hasty. I posted based on what I had seen such arguments used for in the past, namely against anything remotely competative.
I have posted repeatedly that we need both the G4M2 and B-25B for scenarios to be done correctly. As it stands now the Ki.67 and the US bombers are far more than the early war fighters can deal with.
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Bless you, Karnak. I concur. :)
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I was kinda Tierd when I wrote it:)
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I was wondering about the J2M Raiden or the D4Y Suisei? Would these be good additions to the set?
small plug fot the B29 for the Jack and Tony to intercept :-D
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Perhaps the Betty wouldnt be the best bomber. Dont forget the nick name American pilots gave it in the Solomons; "The One-Shot Lighter"
Just a thought.
S!
Ridge
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Is that an Escape Pod with 2 droids ejecting from that bomber?
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LOL. More like the nose cone. Notice the gunner bailing out just above the cockpit...
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I say if they add the late war Japanese plane the US should get this baby