Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Habu on February 03, 2003, 02:57:08 PM
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The concept of a unified Europe is new. So new in fact that it is very hard for such a group of diverse and different cultures to define what exactly they all have in common. In fact it is easier to see what they don't have in common, and the further along the Europeans get in their project of integration, the more apparent these differences become. It is all right to generally agree in the principal of unification, but as the gritty details are worked out sometimes the only common ground that can be found is not in defining what Europe is, but what it is not. And as France and Germany like to point out lately, it is not the same as the United States.
But why the US bashing? In the process of unifying Europe is being racked with difficulties. A constitutional convention, begun last year to replace the EU's various founding treaties with a single document is floundering as no consensus can be arrived at. Even its two main international economic policies engagement with the third world and free trade, are being undercut by agriculture subsides and protectionism. There is no common foreign policy.
In domestic policy France is about to openly flout the rule that forbids countries that have adopted the Euro from running a large deficit.
In light of all the trouble Europe is having trying to be Europe, the current tense relationship with the United States, typified by its criticism of American policy towards Iraq, can be understood.
Slowing economies, institutional confusion, and politically aloof elitists have paved the way for xenophobic parties (most of which loathe the EU itself) to score victories in recent years in Austria, France, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands.
It is the attempt to defuse this growing threat without addressing its own problems that the European political class has switched the question from "What's is wrong with Europe?" to "What is wrong in America?" This is a common tactic that is used extensively in the third world to deflect criticism of domestic governments. What is surprising is that it is not being used by a major western power.
Europe's criticism of American policies is not always a bad thing. The US deserves and needs to have scrutiny of its policy's. Europe can function much like an opposition political party moderating some of America's more extreme views, if it were acting for the right reasons.
However an opposition must do more than criticize--it must also present an alternative. What's the European alternative security policy? What is their policy on Iraq? What is their stand on respect for human rights? If it is the same as the UN's then you know they have none.
Until Europe can demonstrate that it stands for something positive and coherent, its routine opposition to the United States will be recognized for what it is: cynical political calculation. So take what Europe says with a grain of salt. When you see France and Germany proposing a credible solution to the Iraqi situation then you will know that they are acting out of a morally justifiable reason. But that ain't happening now.
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more lines in your post than I want to translate
The truth is : we just want to piss you :D
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I do find your analyse far from being complete ...
Did you notice that in France as in Germany position the subject was the lack of proof given by the US ?
I bet that as soon as GWB show some conclusive proof USA will be back by German and French like in 1990.
Only a mouton (sheep ?) like Tony Blair and some can follow USA only using their "Faith" (read $$$$) in USA.
If you can have a UN decision like the one which started UN intervention in Korea we will do your part of the job (like we did in Korea too).
Otherwise you are alone with your ass-licker.
btw when I see a friend about to make an error I do all that i can to change is mind ... it's our role in this story if you confuse tat with American-bashing you're just plain wrong.
Actually US public opinion look to be pro war ... what will happen when you will see the 1st coffin coming back from gulf ?
You will give them a diddlying medal and a "hero" status ?
You will kill father son friend mother and so on just because you are "war addicted" ? what a pity :(.
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Europe can function much like an opposition political party moderating some of America's more extreme views, if it were acting for the right reasons.
And you are surprised to see Euros on this board getting touchy..., right... what a surprise.
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Only a mouton (sheep ?) like Tony Blair and some can follow USA only using their "Faith" (read $$$$) in USA
US & UK intelligence communities have always had a "special relationship". I'm pretty sure Blair has access to a lot of data that other Euro leaders don't.
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Originally posted by Straffo
Only a mouton (sheep ?) like Tony Blair and some can follow USA only using their "Faith" (read $$$$) in USA
Actually he's not a sheep, he's a muppet and should more correctly be called "Fozzie Blair". :D
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Pak-Blair (http://clients.nefarious.co.uk/pacman/) (Warning : Completely Off-tpic) :D
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Fozzy Blair, lol.
US, UK Australia and some others have the Echelon Intelligence Supra agency - and they refuse to share info with other Euros, despite allegations of industrial espionage.
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Straffo,
We already have had the first coffins come home. We DO consider them hero's.
We also had several other coffins here a short while ago. About 2300 of them and that was placed on our doorstep. If you want to "talk" and "reason" with these folks go ahead. Just don't expect any sympathy when you find your concessions keep getting larger until you need their permission to live. Perhaps they will be satisfied running your economy and having their "security" forces "helping you".
Ask the Brits about gaining concessions. They have a bit of experiance in it.
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Sure Funked I hope it's that...
Now the problem if it's true : Imagine you're in the position of the German/French you are allied with US & UK but not considered equal(*) ?
You would be pissed in such circonstances no ?
Now if it's not that GWB (not the USA I make a subtil distinguo) will loose all credibility(**), we are waiting for the proof since what ? 6 month ?
My final word will be :
if the proof are here spank Saddam to death else "status quo" he gonna die sooner or later and his succession promise to be quite spectacular :D
(*)I would have said "thruthworthy" but I'm too tired to lookup this word in a dictionnary :rolleyes:
(**)Imagine how it would be easy for the Al-Quaida like to start a recruiting campaign after such an outcome ??
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About 2300 of them and that was placed on our doorstep. If you want to "talk" and "reason" with these folks go ahead.
So the Iraqis were behind 911. And there was me thinking this guy Bin Laden had something to do with it... I guess that's last years news.
0 Iraqis were on the Sept 11th flights.
0 evidence for links between Saddam and Al Queda (CIA and British Intelligence both confirmed this recently)
0 Iraqis found in Afghanistan, considering they has an American on the Taliban side
So what was your point again?
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The US dealt with the 9/11 terrorists. They established a link with Bin Laden and went after them in Afganistan.
The Iraq situation is the next step. Who are the rogue states that aid and abette terrorism? Who are the states most likely to give terrorists weapons capable of killing large numbers of people? (Who tried to kill George Bush). Who is the crazed psycopath that gassed his own people and who threatened to bring the whole middle east to war?
Yes Iraq is right now the second biggest target on the radar. The Taliban and Bin Laden were the biggest. Are they the last? I have a feeling if North Korea does not come round and renounce its nuclear weapons program then it will be next.
The events of 9/11 are linked to the present Iraq situation in that they opened the eyes of the US and showed it no longer had the luxury of hideing its head in the sand and ignoreing the riseing threat of rogue states and terrorists.
Now that they have taken action they are not about to stop half way.
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You gotta love this Aussie!
You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.
So, an Australian dentist wrote the following to let everyone know what an American is, so they would know when they found one.
"An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish,
German, Spanish, Polish, Russian, or Greek. An American
may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or
Pakistani, or Afghan. An American may also be a Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache or one of the many
other tribes known as native Americans.
An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or
Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims
in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is
that in America, they are free to worship as each of them chooses. An American is also free to believe in no religion.
For that, he will answer only to God, not to the government,
or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government
and for God.
An American is from the most prosperous land in the
history of the world.
The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration
of Independence, which recognizes the God-given right of
each man and woman to the pursuit of happiness.
An American is generous. Americans have helped out
just about every other nation in the world in their time
of need. When Afghanistan was overrun by
the Soviet army twenty years ago, Americans came with
arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their
country. As of the morning of September 11, 2001,
Americans had given more than any other nation to the
poor in Afghanistan.
Americans welcome the best -- the best products,
the best books, the best music, the best food, the
best athletes. But they also welcome the least.
The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty,
welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched
refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless,
tempest-tossed. These, in fact, are the people who
built America.
Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the
morning of September 11, earning a better life for
their families. I've been told that the World
Trade Center victims were from at least thirty other
countries, cultures, and first languages -- including
those that aided and abetted the terrorists.
So, you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did.
So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao, and every blood
thirsty tyrant in the history of the world. But, in doing so,
you would just be killing yourself, because Americans
are not a particular people from a particular place.
They are the embodiment of the human spirit and
freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit,
everywhere, is an American.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Straffo,
We already have had the first coffins come home. We DO consider them hero's.
We also had several other coffins here a short while ago. About 2300 of them and that was placed on our doorstep. If you want to "talk" and "reason" with these folks go ahead. Just don't expect any sympathy when you find your concessions keep getting larger until you need their permission to live. Perhaps they will be satisfied running your economy and having their "security" forces "helping you".
Ask the Brits about gaining concessions. They have a bit of experiance in it.
Warning : I'm not sure to fully undertand your post. (it's late here , I'm tired ... I should be in my bed since 1 hour now ...)
Well no that you're warned that my post will leack in the coherence departement :p
I think you confuse things (or GWB administration and the media are trying to confuse you dunno ...) I don't think Iraq as something to do with the WTC crime.
Historicly the founder of Al-Qaida were supported by a country were the local form of Islam was Wahabism a really dangerous form of Islam started at the begening of the 20th (just to a search on the web there is plenty of information availlable).
As you know the Muslim have like the christian some different "church" some are pacifist (truly !) some not ,some are very dangerous some were financiary supported by Saoudia ...
and USA will attack an enemy of Saoudia leaving this brunch of ass-hole medieval peasant continue to do their dirty bizness ... it piss me off :(
Btw from a Strategic point of view I do understand the game played by the USA : get Iraqi Oil to lower Oil cost and so kill ecomicly Saoudia (it's bad to start war with an allied :D)
But why has GWB started to use UN ?
He should have started a war on his own and this war should have been won since a long time ... a kind of politic "du fait accomplie"
Instead he idiotly choose the use UN (expecting a plebiscite I guess) but due to the way the beast work he is now prisonner of his own tactic .... he played ... he lost .
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By not supporting the UN resulution. Germany, France and the rest of the anti-american protesters have left the US with one choice. To invade Iraq and establish a regime change. If These two countries, and you are the minority in this matter, 22 countries have agreed to help, 8 in Europe, would show a strong united front then maybe, just maybe Saddem would look for exile. But he dosn't see that he has to when FRANCE and GERMANY are helping to defend him and make his case agains regime change.
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The US dealt with the 9/11 terrorists. They established a link with Bin Laden and went after them in Afganistan.
I had few reservations about the action - the link was well established/documented.
Who are the rogue states that aid and abette terrorism? Who are the states most likely to give terrorists weapons capable of killing large numbers of people?
Korea - has nuclear weapons, has a nutcase leader capable of starving millions of people to death on a whim, great links with the Terrorist Place in the Sun...
... known as Yemen. Excellent training facilities, plenty of friendly reps. Not very far from the historic...
... Sudan. Brutal civil war has destroyed any form of law and order, a great place to lie low. In the middle of darkest Africa and out of the spotlight. It even has oil reserves!
The events of 9/11 are linked to the present Iraq situation in that they opened the eyes of the US and showed it no longer had the luxury of hideing its head in the sand and ignoreing the riseing threat of rogue states and terrorists.
Rising threat? Iraq is contained and has been contained for a decade. Al Queda is a multi-national terrorist organisation with more ties in Saudi Arabia than Iraq.
Where are you from, out of interest?
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Umm hmmm Dowding. Where do you get your info?
Its well known that the 911 terrorists met with Iraqi intelligence agents in Europe. Its also well known that Al Qaeda operatives travel through Iraq on a regular basis to the training camps in the north.
Subsequently Iraq has threatened the US with immediate suicide bomber reliation on the continental US should the US attack Iraq. If this isn't an admission of links with Al Qaeda then I don't know what is.
As for the French, well its pretty well known now they are chasing oil contracts in Iraq. The Germans I believe are trying to assert their national identity after the cold war.
As for containing Iraq, yeah right, we've contained Iraq with active military operations on their borders.
What happens when Iraq becomes nuclear capable?
What happens when Iraq draws Israel into a fight?
Whats the UN gonna do? You refer to Koreas current actions but what is the UN doing there?
Frankly if I was the US I'd pull out of the UN (its the League of Nations all over again), crack down on my immigration, tighten my borders. And laugh at the middle East when the Israeli's and Iraqi's finally start turning it into a nuclear wasteland.
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Read it in the paper the other day. Also saw it on the news several times. Both the CIA and British intelligence do not support the Al Queda-Iraq link.
Training camps in Northern Iraq? I'm sorry, Vulcan, that's roadkill. Yemen, Afghanistand, Somalia and Sudan definitely - but there are no camps in northern Iraq. It would be all over the news and great ammunition for the pro-war camp. Got any sources for that out of interest?
Subsequently Iraq has threatened the US with immediate suicide bomber reliation on the continental US should the US attack Iraq.
That's not quite true. They were describing how the civilian population should act against invaders. It's not an admission of guilt.
I can believe Saddam has C and B technology - but the Al Queda thing is fishy.
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Vulcan, You may have to rethink the Iraq and Al Qaeda links.
Blair and Bush have distanced themselves from tying the 2 directly together.
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What is all this talk of USA showing proof? The burdeon of proof is not with the USA for anything here. You see, we were at war with Iraq in the early 1990s and were within days of completing overrunning the country and government and so that Iraq could end the war, the parties entered into a contract which stipulated that Iraq destroy weapons of mass destruction and show proof of their destruction. We are aware of many weapons of mass destruction that were accounted for under the agreement but Iraq has not been able to show the proof that these weapons have been destroyed. Now we seek to find where these things may be and if they've created any new weapons. But it's not the USA's burdeon to prove Iraq has anything. But since Iraq does not show proof that everything has been destroyed, that means the contract for peace has been voided which means we are back in a state of war.
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Most recent proof I believe was one of the terrorists linked to the UK arrests traveled through Iraq on several occasions to Ansar al-Islam training camps in Kurdish controlled areas. Although Iraq claims these to be 'out of its reach' in the Kurdish controlled area they happily turn a blind eye to those traveling in and out of Iraqi controlled Iraq to these camps. Ansar al-Islam is openly linked directly to Al Qaeda.
Iraq keeps Al Qaeda at arms length 'officially' for one simple reason: any direct link between Al Qaeda and Iraq would be grounds enough for the US to make a LEGAL attack (without the UNs ok).
Don't expect Saddam to wave a flag saying "I support Al Qaeda". Hes not that dumb. Thats why the Al-Qaeda+Iraq thing is SO fishy.
Dowding, go do a search on Ansar al-Islam, come back to me with an update on what you think.
Also in the statement by the Iraqi vice-president on the suicide bombers it was expressly stated that Iraq did not have weapons capable of reaching the US but it had suicide bombers (matyrs). To me it implies a lot.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Rising threat? Iraq is contained and has been contained for a decade.
Thanks to who? Who has been "containing" Iraq?
Why aren't the Iraqi's being held to the commitments they made after the Gulf War?
-Smut
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Thanks to who? Who has been "containing" Iraq?
The UK and the US, and I've supported that effort.
Why aren't the Iraqi's being held to the commitments they made after the Gulf War?
Why hasn't Israel been held to the resolutions against it over the last 40 years?
Iraq is not setting a precedent by ignoring UN resolutions.
Vulcan - I'll take a look at that when I have more time. Cheers.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Why hasn't Israel been held to the resolutions against it over the last 40 years?
Iraq is not setting a precedent by ignoring UN resolutions.
Please read my post on the UN to understand why Israel has not respected the UN resolutions.
The UN human rights commission is nearly half composed of dictatorships, and third world despotic members such as Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Cuba, Zimbabwe, etc.
Of the 59 General Assembly resolutions made during the 2001 session almost half dealt with Israel while the General Assembly remained silent of the actions of many ruthless undemocratic regimes.
Do you really think that Israel should be adhering resolutions by this tarnished institution in what is obviously a kangaroo court of inquiry?
The US should not have tried to get the UN's backing. The corrupt third world members of the UN make Olympic Figure Skating judges look fair in comparison. The US should phone every country and ask do you support us or oppose us. Keep a list and act unilaterally if necessary.
And remember those countries like Germany and France who decided to political grandstand instead of help.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Iraq is not setting a precedent by ignoring UN resolutions.
I wasn't talking about the UN, I was talking about the cease fire agreement that Iraq signed at the end of the Gulf War.
-Smut
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In November 2001, two defectors from the Iraqi intelligence services said that Iraq had used Salman Pak, a camp south of Baghdad, to train Islamist radicals in the techniques of terrorism, including training on a Boeing 707 fuselage in the desert.
Salman Pak: An Iraqi Lt. general and Captain Sabah Khodada defected from Iraq and emigrated to the US in May, 2001. In separate New York Times interviews, they described Salman Pak, a highly secret terrorist training camp south of Baghdad. The trainees were Iraqi, and non-Iraqi Arabs.
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After Iraq threw out the UN Inspectors last time, what force, what factor, what issue made them to decide to let them back in?
Now that they're back in and Blix himself says they're not getting enough cooperation, what force, what factor, what issue is causing the Iraqis to try and accomodate the concerns and issues Blix has recently raised?
What if all that needs doing gets accomplished without a shot being fired? What if just moving troops around resolved the Inspection/disarmament concerns?
How would all of you view that circumstance?
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It is difficult to understand the mind of a jerry lewis fan.
lazs
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Habu i have to admit I really really love u ... I love u babe ... so much
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Going back to the original subject 'Why Europe (mainly France though) is against the US policy on Iraq'.
You may ask why France isn't a full member of NATO.
It is true that the French do still want their exports of military hardware but so do many other countries.
I cannot remember which conflict it was, but anyone remember something about the French tipping off the enemy about US/UK strikes? Was it the Kosovo/Serbia crisis?
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Originally posted by Replicant
Going back to the original subject 'Why Europe (mainly France though) is against the US policy on Iraq'.
You may ask why France isn't a full member of NATO.
It is true that the French do still want their exports of military hardware but so do many other countries.
I cannot remember which conflict it was, but anyone remember something about the French tipping off the enemy about US/UK strikes? Was it the Kosovo/Serbia crisis?
Of course do not forget the French technicians arming the Exocet missles for the Argentina air force in the Falklands war.
Don't you just love the French. :mad:
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Hi,
Habu, I'm really glad that I know many US citizens that are not supporting your ideas or points of view, I could get a wrong picture of the USA by only reading your polemic rants.
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Originally posted by Kelly[KGN]
Hi,
Habu, I'm really glad that I know many US citizens that are not supporting your ideas or points of view, I could get a wrong picture of the USA by only reading your polemic rants.
The US is a democracy. People can support any idea they choose. I am not making up the facts in my posts about the UN, France or Germany. If you think I have posted something that is not true then please let me know.
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Hi,
does that mean everybody who isn't supporting it is ignoring the (your?) facts?
What I see here is that many people don'T agree, does that make all idiots?
Facts can always be seen from two sides oh my teacher, we don't talk about physics or math here, we talk about morality and point of view.
Btw, a couple of centuries ago it was a proven fact that the earth was flat..oh, some years later some said it's not...damn...seems to be a wrong fact.
grow up!
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hm, habu, do you always edit your postings totally after you posted them first?
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I type faster than I can spell.......I read my post and if it is full of typos then I go back and fix them.
That is why they are all edited.
I wish this BB had a built in spell checker.
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Habu, u edited the meaning of it, not the spelling...
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Originally posted by Kelly[KGN]
Hi,
does that mean everybody who isn't supporting it is ignoring the (your?) facts?
What I see here is that many people don'T agree, does that make all idiots?
Facts can always be seen from two sides oh my teacher, we don't talk about physics or math here, we talk about morality and point of view.
Btw, a couple of centuries ago it was a proven fact that the earth was flat..oh, some years later some said it's not...damn...seems to be a wrong fact.
grow up!
I am not saying that the world should support the US. I have never said that. What I have said is the reasons the US should not care what the UN thinks, as well as the reasons France and Germany are not supporting the US.
If you live in Germany you know as well as I do that my original post is totally true. Your current leader is only bashing the US to make political gains at home in advance of the upcoming elections. If that is not the case why did he make the big speaches saying he would never support a war? If he was morally opposed he could have just quietly phoned Bush and told him so.
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Hi,
why?
Because the People here demanded an official and public answer what our goverment will do, pretty simple, isn't it?
Or do you think it's a shame to say it public?
The quity phonecall you mentioned made me laugh...uh, hush, please be quite, nobody shall know we disagree.
Btw, last counts here are that 54% are against a war, 24% support it only with agreement of the UN and the other 22% agree.
Maybe it wasn't just a political trick, we think that way.
Btw, for me Stoiber's blind agreement was rather the case of catching votes than Schröder's disagreement.
But the war-supporters do of course never see it that way.
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Originally posted by lazs2
It is difficult to understand the mind of a jerry lewis fan.
lazs
He was my favorite actor, 'till I turned 11.
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Iraq falls under the catagory of "Unfinished Buisness"
Also on the list of "Unfinished Buisness"..
North Korea
Yemen
France
;)
Patience, fellas. We'll get to yah.
:D
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Originally posted by Habu
Of course do not forget the French technicians arming the Exocet missles for the Argentina air force in the Falklands war.
Don't you just love the French. :mad:
Yes Habu, some of us have lonnnnnnnnnnnng memories, perhaps the French are worried they are on 'terrorist' list, just a bit further down...
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Don't get me wrong, I'm far from pro-greenpeace. I think its a corporate scam.
But that doesn't excuse state-sanctioned terrorism.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Yes Habu, some of us have lonnnnnnnnnnnng memories, perhaps the French are worried they are on 'terrorist' list, just a bit further down...
Ahhh you see thats not terrorism...thats called A pre-emptive strike or Acting in the best interests of the nation :D
Tronsky
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Originally posted by -tronski-
Ahhh you see thats not terrorism...thats called A pre-emptive strike or Acting in the best interests of the nation :D
Tronsky
True true mate... but at least the yanks are picking on someone who's actually armed :D
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lol, Kiwi's armed then...just not now :)
Anyhow, didn't the NZ Army buy lots of lovely new LAV's from Canada?
Tronsky
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yeah, like the Green POS aren't the real terrorists. And we should have jailed that criminal Sea Shepard guy for ramming KNM Andenes.
Btw. I thought the Argentineans had to jury-rig the Exocet's during the Falklands war. I remember reading how the French withdrew their support and refused to deliver the remaining missile order (only five missiles were delivered).
Yes they withdrew thier support after it hit the papers what they were up to.
I am amazed that they can even look the British in their eyes after what they did.
Oh wait they are French. They have had lots of practice.:p
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Originally posted by Habu
Of course do not forget the French technicians arming the Exocet missles for the Argentina air force in the Falklands war.
Don't you just love the French. :mad:
roadkill ma poule ...
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Originally posted by Habu
Yes they withdrew thier support after it hit the papers what they were up to.
I am amazed that they can even look the British in their eyes after what they did.
Oh wait they are French. They have had lots of practice.:p
roadkill again
can you have a straight fact anytime ?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Iraq falls under the catagory of "Unfinished Buisness"
Also on the list of "Unfinished Buisness"..
North Korea
Yemen
France
;)
Patience, fellas. We'll get to yah.
:D
France ?
I guess you misspelled again "New Jersey"
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Funny it was all over the news here at the time.
I guess we are all just crazy North Americans who don't know anything while you French who sold them the missles are not trying to hide anything.
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yer becoming a one liner or too lazy to answer or more likely short of argument ?
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Originally posted by straffo
yer becoming a one liner or too lazy to answer or more likely short of argument ?
Ok once again I have to write like I am making a thesis to prove a very well know fact. If your argument is the French are not two faced lieing back stabbing cowards who would stab their good neighbors the British in the back then I am afraid it is you that is full of Bull toejam.
From
Air & Space Power Journal - Fall 2002
DISTRIBUTION A:
Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited.
Argentine Airpower in the Falklands War
An Operational View
Dr. James S. Corum
Snip
The pilots of the 2d Escuadrilla, trained in France in 1980–81, were fully qualified with the aircraft. However, at the time the conflict in the Falklands began, only five of the Super Etendards and five Exocet missiles had been delivered from France. The Common Market nations and NATO immediately initiated an arms embargo on Argentina, therefore halting the French shipments of planes and missiles. Throughout the conflict, the Argentine government tried desperately but unsuccessfully to obtain more Exocets on the world market. Argentina would have to fight the war with only five Etendards and Exocet missiles. Since spare parts for the Etendards were cut off by the NATO arms embargo, the FAA decided to hold one of the five fighters in reserve and use it for parts to support the remaining four aircraft.
The Argentinians had no previous experience with antiship missiles, and the Exocet was a complicated and cranky weapon. The Argentinians experienced a lot of trouble fitting the Exocet launch system and rails to the Super Etendards. In November 1981, Dassault Aviation, owned by the French government and builder of the Super Etendard, sent a team of nine of its own technicians (and some additional French Aerospatiale specialists) to work with the Argentine navy to supervise the introduction of the Etendards and Exocets. Although France complied with the NATO/ Common Market weapons embargo, the French technical team remained in Argentina and apparently continued to work on the aircraft and Exocets, successfully repairing the malfunctioning launch systems. Without the technical help and collusion from the government of France—Britain’s NATO “ally”—it is improbable that Argentina would have been able to employ its most devastating weapon.18
18 Christopher Chant, Super Etendard: Super Profile (Somerset, England: Winchmore Publishing, 1983)., 48–49.
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the French technical team remained in Argentina and apparently continued to work on the aircraft and Exocets, successfully repairing the malfunctioning launch systems. Without the technical help and collusion from the government of France—Britain’s NATO “ally”—it is improbable that Argentina would have been able to employ its most devastating weapon.18
WOW ! a conclusive proof ...
back to google : http://www.google.com
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Are French rethinking position on Iraq war? (http://www.iht.com/articles/85953.html)
PARIS With a swerve in language that acknowledges the possibility of the use force in Iraq and emphasizes Feb. 14 as a due-date for Iraqi compliance with disarmament requirements, France seems to be recalibrating its position on steps that could lead to a war.
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there, happy now ?
Hiya Saw!
Whelp... seems that France, realizing that we're gonna kick bellybutton on Iraq no matter what; have decided to be in on the ass-kickin party.
Wouldn't due to have shown that what France and the UN thinks is irrelevant to our position in regards to the use of military force in this circumstance.
Am I happy??
Sure I am. The biblicly predicted plauge of Frogs is comming to Iraq.