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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dago on February 03, 2003, 08:07:24 PM

Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 03, 2003, 08:07:24 PM
Due to work constraints and other factors, I haven't been playing AH as much as usual.  I logged on today to find the Pizza map up.  It was up the last time I played to.

I noticed players coming on the game complaining about the Pizza map being up again.  Some mumbled something about Skuzzy doing a reset and putting it right back on the pizza.  

Lets be honest here, even if you like the pizza map, you probably dont want to play it all the time.  It seems to take far and away the longest to get a reset when the pizza is up.

I would like to suggest that no map be allowed to stay up past a certain length of time.  I am thinking 24hrs, maybe even 48hrs.  If no country has reset the map within 24hr (or 48hrs) of it's appearance, then the game should give an automatic 10 minute warning and move on to the next map in the rotation.

Anyone agree this might help the map stagnation?

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Innominate on February 03, 2003, 08:20:14 PM
All "map stagnation" means is that one country hasn't been gangbanged hard enough to get a reset.
I blame the rooks for giving up thier role as lapdog to whichever team is winning.  :p
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: palef on February 03, 2003, 09:29:44 PM
The gameplay issue is that teamwork is needed to reset Pizza.

The BishKnit alliance needs to try harder!:p

palef
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: GPreddy on February 04, 2003, 07:03:50 AM
Until today the teamwork in bishopland has been a little laggish. We have been getting a lot of help from each other but there have been a lot of noobs on recently and they just dont know what to do. Then theres the "I need an m3" calls. You dont know what field they want the m3 for or where to start from.

Well today we got it together and reset pizza in less then 24hrs. So it can be done.

Bishops and well done! :D
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2003, 08:17:48 AM
the problem is that there are 3 or 5 knits that care about who wins the war now.  I wish they would go bish and we could get some resets.   It is very disturbing to see knits not getting the reset simply because the bish will "win"..... win what?  The stupid thing just hangs up on the last 3-5 fields..
lazs
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 04, 2003, 08:43:38 AM
I am all for this.  Im not a strong proponent of Pizza, but I dont want to play ANY map for the 3-4 day stretches we've been seeing from time to time.
Title: Re: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 04, 2003, 09:11:41 AM
I totally adore the Pizza map, certainly over any of the others. (WAY too small for the numbers)and I absolutely detest the map the immediately preceeds the pizza map(note I live with and deal with it without whining)but yea even I like a change of pace.
thing is, if you want to change maps. think "team" not "furball"
One thing I hear claimed in complaints about the Pizza map is  in finding a fight. LOL try attacking a base, any  seemingly undefended base for any length of time and you will find more fight then you can handle most of the time.
but in any arena. if you think more in the way of team, then in furball not only will you see more resets. but you will actually WIN more resets.

Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Due to work constraints and other factors, I haven't been playing AH as much as usual.  I logged on today to find the Pizza map up.  It was up the last time I played to.

I noticed players coming on the game complaining about the Pizza map being up again.  Some mumbled something about Skuzzy doing a reset and putting it right back on the pizza.  

Lets be honest here, even if you like the pizza map, you probably dont want to play it all the time.  It seems to take far and away the longest to get a reset when the pizza is up.

I would like to suggest that no map be allowed to stay up past a certain length of time.  I am thinking 24hrs, maybe even 48hrs.  If no country has reset the map within 24hr (or 48hrs) of it's appearance, then the game should give an automatic 10 minute warning and move on to the next map in the rotation.

Anyone agree this might help the map stagnation?

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 04, 2003, 09:19:37 AM
Thanks Saurdaukar for bringing this thread back to the topic.

I am looking for responces regarding the idea of a time limit for any one map to stay up.  Who likes the idea, who doesn't?  Any suggestions from anyone on a way to keep the game from stalling on one map.

AND, a way not put us back into a week long pizza marathon when HTC needs to reset the server.

This isnt posted as a complaint, but rather looking for a solution to something that really does bug a lot of players.


dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Mini D on February 04, 2003, 09:22:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
the problem is that there are 3 or 5 knits that care about who wins the war now.  I wish they would go bish and we could get some resets.   It is very disturbing to see knits not getting the reset simply because the bish will "win"..... win what?  The stupid thing just hangs up on the last 3-5 fields..
lazs
Bingo.  It happened 3 times on this rotation that I know of... probably more.  Both Bish and Knits did it.

MiniD
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2003, 12:04:05 PM
Ok so wouldn't it be better if we just put out the announcement that anyone who sees the "big picture" should fly for the dildo worshipers and if that didn't work maybe we could just declare the dildo worshipers the 'winner' after a set number of days say 2?
lazs
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: ALF on February 04, 2003, 12:33:39 PM
A time limitation would reduce the incentive to try for the reset (I do not think that is a good thing).  A a member of the Bucket Brigage for the past week (thats pronounced Rooks), I have been eagerly awaiting the reset.  Im not sure what the solution is, but there is a growing push for something to keep the rotation going because of the stagnation that occures sometimes.

on a side note....this thread clearly needs to be in the gameplay forum :D
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2003, 12:40:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
It is very disturbing to see knits not getting the reset simply because the bish will "win"..... win what?  lazs


For the Perks!  Just think, those 30 Fighter perks you get for a reset!  (You can earn 30 perks in two flights with a F4U-1 ;)
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 04, 2003, 12:41:30 PM
Quote
on a side note....this thread clearly needs to be in the gameplay forum


My sincerest apologies to the "proper forum patrol" members, but a lot of players dont visit that forum.

Quote
A time limitation would reduce the incentive to try for the reset


Possibly, and a good point. If the current perk points aren't enough of an incentive to win the map, maybe the perk numbers should be larger?

Either way, something to prevent map stagnation should be done.  When players are switching sides to help reset just to get off a map, you gotta know something is wrong.

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Furious on February 04, 2003, 02:26:15 PM
crap.  Does anyone remember when the maps never changed, and then only once per tour?

Now you want it once every 24 hrs.  It's just silly.


...and Lazs, no more for bish.  We got too many as it is.  I say send 'em to rooks or create another team.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 04, 2003, 02:39:56 PM
Quote
crap. Does anyone remember when the maps never changed, and then only once per tour?


Thanks for your pathetic attempt to flame.  I also remember hearing about when people listened to the radio because they didnt have televisions or computers.  You want to go back to those days?

Just because "thats how it was in the old days" doesnt mean we can't look at ways to make improvements or move forward.  Sorry, your response Furious makes me wonder if you are a dork.

The facts as I see it are:

We sometimes stagnate on a map,

A lot of players dont like certain maps, and don't like being stuck with them day after day,

Everytime HTC resets the game, we go back to a map that is the hardest and takes the longest to get a reset on.

I am just wondering if there is some way to keep things fresher, or at least keep the day to day game from getting stuck and stale on one map.

Please, if you have a good idea, suggestion or opinion about changing the map rotation offer it.  If you have nothing constructive to add, don't feel obligated to add something anyway.

thanks

dago
Title: Re: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: maxtor on February 04, 2003, 02:52:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Due to work constraints and other factors, I haven't been playing AH as much as usual.  I logged on today to find the Pizza map up.  It was up the last time I played to.

I noticed players coming on the game complaining about the Pizza map being up again.  Some mumbled something about Skuzzy doing a reset and putting it right back on the pizza.  

Lets be honest here, even if you like the pizza map, you probably dont want to play it all the time.  It seems to take far and away the longest to get a reset when the pizza is up.

I would like to suggest that no map be allowed to stay up past a certain length of time.  I am thinking 24hrs, maybe even 48hrs.  If no country has reset the map within 24hr (or 48hrs) of it's appearance, then the game should give an automatic 10 minute warning and move on to the next map in the rotation.

Anyone agree this might help the map stagnation?

dago


The "pizza" map was reset overnight the day you made this post.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: wetrat on February 04, 2003, 03:12:25 PM
72 hour limit on maps... or we can go back to having 100 rooks on at peak hours :)
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 04, 2003, 03:15:52 PM
Quote
The "pizza" map was reset overnight the day you made this post.


What does that have to do with this discussion?

That would only be the answer if I was talking about this moment.  But I am talking about day to day, week after week play.  About a problem that rises fairly often.

I never said there are no resets.  I never said we can't reset the pizza map.  I am talking about that times when a map doesnt change for a long period of time.

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: popeye on February 04, 2003, 03:25:22 PM
72 hours seems about right.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Grizzly on February 04, 2003, 05:11:16 PM
The pizza map was reset last night because the Knights allowed it. Night after night we came close to winning only to be thwarted by the Bish protecting the Rooks. Then we had the lead again only to have the arena reset back to an even pizza map for the new tour.

So last night, Instead of letting the Rooks take our bases and fighting the Bish only (as the Bish would have done), the popular sentiment was to let the Bish have it to get rid of that darn map. Certainly not all felt that way, but enough did to affect the outcome.

The Bish deserve great credit for organizing and teamwork. No doubt it took a lot of work and leadership. Kudos to them. But what of the outcome?

The Rooks seem to still have the spirit of flag capture, but lack the numbers. Likely too many choose the Bish side because they are the best.

Many Knights don't care  enough about winning resets to bother with organization and capture orientated tactics like the Bish use.

The result is what the Bish want most, domination. Of course the Knights will put up a fight, but a fight focused more on fun than efficient arena distruction.

I have an idea that can make everyone happy. Let the Bish have their 30 perks. They worked hard to get so good, so they earned them. The Knights and Rooks will just have fun fighting each other. Cod only knows the Bish aren't any fun anyway, because they don't want to fight. They just want to overpower us and grab our bases. We can have more fun at the dentist.  =o)
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: SKurj on February 04, 2003, 05:15:49 PM
72 hours sounds good to me..

If ya can't reset it in 3 days too bad
I'd think it might add incentive, then ya gotta reset in 3 days or no perks for u


SKurj
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: BNM on February 04, 2003, 06:23:03 PM
72 hours works for me. I think after 72 hrs whoever has the most fields is declared the winner, gets the perks and it's on to the next map. Not bad........
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Hammy on February 04, 2003, 06:24:20 PM
now that sounds like a good idea skurj  :)
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Mugzeee on February 04, 2003, 06:55:26 PM
Although i didnt Like the Pizza Map at first.  I have discoverd a new hope. The bomber formations in AH are best suited to attacking the Complex AH Strat Re-Supply systems.    With the Added "Zones"  This type of Bombing is being accomadated by the Rich Strat Target environment offered by the Pizza Map.  Please Hurry and develop MORE Large Maps with these "Zone" Features.
Mugzeee
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Taiaha on February 04, 2003, 09:54:36 PM
Yep, 72 hours, team with most fields gets perks, BUT, perks are minimal (10 per category, something like that).  Bump the perks up for a reset a tad.

God, how did those guys in WWII do it, stuck on the same map for four years. . .  Their combat skills were impressive but their whining obviously needed a lot of work.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 05, 2003, 01:20:41 AM
Naa I dont agree with a time limit.
 and being stuck on one map happens with all the maps from time to time not just the pizza one. the map prior to pizza we had for 4 days, Last tour same thing happened with the Isles map although that was only for 3 days LOL.what i'd really like ot see rather then a time limit is simply more maps.

Drediock
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: TheManx on February 05, 2003, 02:22:54 AM
I say just keep rotating maps as usual, and just take Pizza map out of that rotation. Maybe make a new Pizza Map arena for those people that enjoy that type of fighting.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2003, 08:10:22 AM
Just give the reset to the bish after 72 hours if no one "wins"... The bish are the only ones who care anyway and .... any small group of knights or rooks that enjoy building battling can simply convert to bish.   simple really.  We can kill them and they can kill buildings.
lazs
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 05, 2003, 11:07:18 AM
72 hr max time on map would help a lot.

Also, (Skuzzy, you listening?) when the game has to be reset, don't always force us to return to the pizza, use some imagination and move the game to a differant map, maybe at least the one that was up at the time, or the next one that was due in the rotation from the one that was up at the time.

Imagine the frustration of everyone if they had been working hard to get rid of a map like pizza, working hard for a change, have it almost there, when you reset and start them back at square one.

Enough to drive someone up the wall, and if repeated a few times, maybe away from the game.

If HTC chooses to ignore that many players hate the pizza (and many like it of course) then they should at least be understanding enough to realize we dont want to stay on it for great lengths of time, we need a change.

Some comment from anyone at HTC on this issue would be welcome.

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: RvrndMax on February 05, 2003, 01:37:49 PM
I would be curious ... *IF* :

Every map were available simultaneously....which map would have the most population .

I know this goes against AH purist thought , because it steals a page from Air Warrior ( may it rest in peace) but this might solve a few things .... a few smaller servers ( or server farms ) are sometimes cheaper to maintain than a single large one . With the population spread out over a few servers , Lag might just go away

... and everyone can fly what ever map they like , at any time . thus removing the irritating threads relating to map preference .
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: hazed- on February 05, 2003, 02:14:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Thanks for your pathetic attempt to flame.  I also remember hearing about when people listened to the radio because they didnt have televisions or computers.  You want to go back to those days?

Just because "thats how it was in the old days" doesnt mean we can't look at ways to make improvements or move forward.  Sorry, your response Furious makes me wonder if you are a dork.

The facts as I see it are:

We sometimes stagnate on a map,

A lot of players dont like certain maps, and don't like being stuck with them day after day,

Everytime HTC resets the game, we go back to a map that is the hardest and takes the longest to get a reset on.

I am just wondering if there is some way to keep things fresher, or at least keep the day to day game from getting stuck and stale on one map.

Please, if you have a good idea, suggestion or opinion about changing the map rotation offer it.  If you have nothing constructive to add, don't feel obligated to add something anyway.

thanks

dago



dago furious has a perfectly valid point if you consider for a second that SOME players  actually like a longer duration for a map. If furious is playing a map and enjoys it lasting a couple of days then hes entitled to disagree with you. consider others please.
Having said that I also agree with you personally that some maps seem to last too long(pizza+mindanao) whilst others seem to come and go in less than a day (uterus map) which basically equates to me logging on and 90% of the time finding mindanao or pizza. Your idea to limit their duration would only be fair if we all agreed on how long 'too long' is. I cant see people agreeing on that ever! :)
My opinion? anything over 2 (possibly 3) days is a tad too long.

What i suggested long ago was would it be possible to put the short maps on more often.

as it is now we have a list like:

Pizza
baltic
islands
mindanao
uterus

and it just repeats. Meaning we have a breif look at the small maps. How about we make a list like this:

Pizza
baltic
uterus
Islands
mindanao
uterus
baltics
Islands

this way we play the smaller maps 2 times for every 1 time we play pizza or mindanao. It should in theory mean we play these maps for 'roughly' the same length of time. Again though,Im sure many would disagree.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Puke on February 05, 2003, 05:02:31 PM
Dago,  I for one do not mind the Pizza Map nor do I mind that a map might actually be on the charts for a few days so I'm here to say you do not speak for me.  If you are really looking for ways to keep the game fresher, why don't you try flying something other than a Spitfire over and over and over again.

Quote
I am just wondering if there is some way to keep things fresher, or at least keep the day to day game from getting stuck and stale on one map.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 05, 2003, 05:52:44 PM
Puke said:
Quote
so I'm here to say you do not speak for me



Puke, how about we review some of my quotes in this thread:

Quote
Please, if you have a good idea, suggestion or opinion about changing the map rotation offer it.


Quote
This isnt posted as a complaint, but rather looking for a solution to something that really does bug a lot of players.


Quote
Anyone agree this might help the map stagnation?


Nowhere did I say I speak for all or speak for any.  I speak for myself.  I mention something that does bother a lot of players, this can't be denied as so many have made the complaints before, and still.

Just because a few might like the pizza map, I doubt anyone wants to play it to the exclusion of all the other maps.  I think the pizza map stays up way to long due to it's size and difficulty getting a reset on it.

The mere fact that differant countries have to agree to work together just to get the map changed should tell people something.  This game wasn't designed to have countries work together.  Players on one country working together yes, but not with another country.  Having to ally with another country not for points, but just to get a damn map changed would seem to indicate a situation needing at least a review.

I respect everyones opinion, and thats why I asked for it.  I have the right to mine, just because someone doesnt agree doesnt make me wrong.

We need a way to keep the map rotation from stalling for anything past 2 or 3 days so game strategy doesnt have to be altered.

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Puke on February 05, 2003, 08:01:49 PM
Quote
Just because a few might like the pizza map, I doubt anyone wants to play it to the exclusion of all the other maps. I think the pizza map stays up way to long due to it's size and difficulty getting a reset on it.


Who said it's to the "exclusion" of all other maps.  Again, it lasts a few days and your complaint is not shared by me...thus, I have nothing to contribute to your poll of ideas.  It should fine that I post that I disagree that there is a problem in the first place, or are you only looking for "yes-men."  If you think sitting on a map for a few days makes things get old for you, I gave you a suggestion and noted that for months you only fly the Spit9 or the Seafire and think you ought to try a new aircraft.  And here's a new idea, why not try the CT.  They have beautiful maps that are exclusive to that arena.  

Quote
I respect everyones opinion, and thats why I asked for it. I have the right to mine, just because someone doesnt agree doesnt make me wrong.

Right.  So why are you getting so defensive?  The reverse is true too, you are polling thoughts.

Quote
We need a way to keep the map rotation from stalling for anything past 2 or 3 days so game strategy doesnt have to be altered.

I strongly disagree.   I personally think it's ludicrous how quickly the maps are won.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Dago on February 05, 2003, 10:21:38 PM
Quote
It should fine that I post that I disagree that there is a problem in the first place, or are you only looking for


I apologize that I wasnt more specific.  I meant to say "that was a really stupid comment, that I dont speak for you".  I never said I spoke for anyone.  Not sure where you pulled that one from. I started this whole thing with an idea, and opened it up for discussion.  

Yes, I normally only fly the Spit.  I like it, it suits the style of fighting I like to do, but I have in fact at some point tried all of the other planes.  The big differance that you seem don't seem to grasp is, I can fly any plane at any time.  For example, I flew the hog a day or so ago.  

But,

I do not have any choice of terrain. The pizza map was and is an interesting leap forward, but not a perfect leap.  It is bland in color, and I think still a little big for the numbers.

Why do players mainly play in the MA?  Why is the CT always so low on numbers?  Because by and large, players want fast satisfaction, they want instant action.  Despite the high concept, even on the pizza map a lot of players end up in one of about 3 furballs.  Thats what most guys like.  We dont need a huge map for that.  We don't need a map that is virtually never rotated. Specially one that is visually boring as hell.

This thread is not about what one player chooses, it's about something the individual player has little control over.  It would be easy, though not too bright or farsighted to say "if you dont like the map, work on field captures to change it", but that would ignore the obvious.  Instead, just have the maps rotate occasionally on a timed basis when the gameplay has not been such as to cause a reset.

dago
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Puke on February 05, 2003, 11:20:57 PM
Dang.  I think you take "you don't speak for me" too literally and negatively.  There is nothing negative about it.  Maybe read it with a different tone.  I'm just saying that don't take what you say as representing what I say.  I oppose your problem with the maps and do not agree with you.  

I think the maps rotate too quickly, but it's clear I don't speak for you and thus we differ on this matter.

And I guess you do not like my suggestions either.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Don on February 06, 2003, 11:34:26 AM
I have to admit it was a lil disappointing to see the pizza map back :)
It seemed to me that the Rook nemesis' Bish and Nits just couldn't seem to get past their ineptness to put the Rooks away.
It was truly sorrowful last week to be down to less than 4 fields, and still manage to recapture bases. I mean what were you all doing during the daylight hours when few Rooks were up? :confused:
So Rooks get together and wipe all of you way past our borders, giving the spankings you so richly deserve, and we have the pizza  map for another 2 or 3 days. Sheesh! If yer gonna join forces then do it with some kind of style, panache and effectiveness. If not, let out a big radio call on countrywide: "come kill me pleeze!!!" LOL
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: bockko on February 06, 2003, 02:04:06 PM
Hmmm, intersting post. However, nothing will improve if we put a time limit on the map...then the base takers will post the "no purpose to the game" post. Personally, I fly for fighting the fighters. Many people enjoy the pursuit of base taking, fine by me. Many people enjoy the gv thing..fine by me (unless they kill me landing grrrr). While I dislike the many little knowitall generals (as opposed to people like grimm), the base taking serves as a rallying point for either offense or defense and imparts some intensity to the game.

If anything, perhaps adding a few more maps to the mix would be nice, but otherwise let it roll!

bockk
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: Shiva on February 06, 2003, 05:01:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bockko
Hmmm, intersting post. However, nothing will improve if we put a time limit on the map...then the base takers will post the "no purpose to the game" post.


Well, then, the solution is to impose a more subtle time limit. For example, whenever a country falls below 10 fields, a timer starts. After some predefined time is passed -- say, three hours -- if a reset has not occurred, whichevr of the other two countries has the most bases incurs, say, a 5% penalty to the reset perk award. So if the perk award were 50 points, and the Knights took the Rooks down to 9 fields, but three hours later no reset has happened, then depending on whether the Knights or Bishops had more fields, they would have their perk bonus reduced to 45. It happens again, the bonus drops to 41. Again, to 37. Assuming the Rooks are on the short end of the stick through all this, their potential reset award would still be 50 points.

This gives countries an incentive to press for the reset once they have another country on the ropes.
Title: Gameplay Issue - Map Rotation in the MA
Post by: bockko on February 06, 2003, 06:45:15 PM
wow, a new map! hitech must REALLY listen to these posts!