Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Terror on February 04, 2003, 05:39:13 PM
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How about perking the "Big Four" for about 5 perkies?
The "Big Four" being:
Spit IX
N1K2-J
La7
P-51D
Just a light PERK to see if the plane usage balances a bit...
Don't slap me too hard.... it's just an idea....
Terror
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Originally posted by Terror
How about perking the "Big Four" for about 5 perkies?
The "Big Four" being:
Spit IX
N1K2-J
La7
P-51D
Just a light PERK to see if the plane usage balances a bit...
Don't slap me too hard.... it's just an idea....
Terror
That's pretty funny, Terror. :) What's the point? Exactly where do you stop the perking process?
The typhoon is faster than any of the above but the la7 and it has 4 hispanos.
The 190d9 is faster than all but the la7 (and it's faster than the typhoon.) If the d9 has a slight E advantage, the la7 will never run the d9 down. Furthermore, the d9 iis certainly the equal (if not superior) to the pony if you're not flat on the deck.
And don't even get me started on the 109G10.
Wait!!! I have an idea. :) If you like historical matchups, go to the CT; otherwise, leave us in peace and let us fly what we want. :)
curly
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The spit9 and n1k2 should under no reason be perked. (As much as i hate the n1k2 and wish anyone who flies it would die a slow painfull death) There is simply no way to justify a price on them.
The p51d perhaps, but the p51d seems to be the bar for free planes, anything better gets perked.
The la7 is the only free plane which IMO an argument for perking it can be made.
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Fly your plane in its envelope better then the other guys fly his and hes dead. Dont matter what your flying. The big four may see a lot of usage but so what it dont make them any harder to kill. Work harder on knowing your plane and what it does best and how to use it against what your fighting. In the end will a spit out turn a FW yes every damn time. If the FW plays the spits game hes dead and DESERVES to be. If the FW uses his planes speed roll and climb the spit will die.
Its not the plane its the pilot.
Unless he just shot ME down then hes a damn lammer cheating HO shooting LA7 NIK PONY SPIT dweeb and he needs to be perked not the plane.
Just my opinion I could be wrong.
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Man, I don't find the P51 that good, is there something that I haven't encountered yet in it?
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Perking the toejam9, N1K, LA7, and AH's token ride the P-51D is just absurd from a business point of view. Have you any idea how many people would be pissed off if these planes were perked? And I'm willing to bet that many of those pissed would cancel their subscriptions to AH. Personally, I don't think the mustang or toejam9 should be perked. The LA7 and N1K should be, but considering the fact that it's 95% newbies that fly them, they're not a huge threat.
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Originally posted by wetrat
The LA7 and N1K should be, but considering the fact that it's 95% newbies that fly them, they're not a huge threat.
90% of pilots aren't a huge threat anyways, that doesn't change the potential of the aircraft. The same argument would apply to free spit14s.
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Originally posted by AKcurly
That's pretty funny, Terror. :) What's the point? Exactly where do you stop the perking process?
The typhoon is faster than any of the above but the la7 and it has 4 hispanos.
The 190d9 is faster than all but the la7 (and it's faster than the typhoon.) If the d9 has a slight E advantage, the la7 will never run the d9 down. Furthermore, the d9 iis certainly the equal (if not superior) to the pony if you're not flat on the deck.
And don't even get me started on the 109G10.
Wait!!! I have an idea. :) If you like historical matchups, go to the CT; otherwise, leave us in peace and let us fly what we want. :)
curly
I wasn't suggesting perking them because of performance, but because of usage. These four make up about 40% of the MA kills. I just thought a light perk would bring up more variety of early war planes and make the MA a bit more interesting.
And are you saying 5 perks for these rides would be too expensive? I can earn 5 perkies in 5 minutes in a P51b or F4u-1.
If you are worried about new players, give them some freebie perks when a new account is opened and let them burn them on these if they want....
Terror
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And he just said. All you will do is see a wave of Doras and Typhoons.
You will acomplish nothing but deny people their ride of choice.
If any of them approached the Chogs non perk usasge then maybe..
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Originally posted by Pongo
If any of them approached the Chogs non perk usasge then maybe..
Nothing will ever approach the chogs old usage. There are enough 'dweeb' planes available that the usage is spread out across a few of them.
I don't agree with perking them, but it is a similar problem. Instead of just seeing one dweeb-plane everywhere it's the same four or five.
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There's not much ground to perking the Spitfire.
Personally, I would like to see the late war aircrafts perked generally - La-7, P-51D, Fw190D-9, Bf109G-10, the Typhoon and the N1K-2 - at very light 3~5 perks, so the MA would be a little more prone to 1943-ish environment.
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I don't honestly think this airplane (one of the most widely used in the war) should be considered for being perked at any value.
In my opinion its ENY is actually a little low, but thats my opinion.
Looking at my stats from Tour 35 (december '02) when i had a little more freetime on my hands therefore killed time by playing more often...
Total of 849 kills to 574 deaths.
Of the kills...
Seafire - 225
P-51D - 136
Mosquito - 37
F4U-1D - 30
Hurricane MkIIC - 25
Typhoon - 22
31 as a Ship Gunner
80 in an Ostwind
Generally speaking i flew the Seafire and Hurricane in base/carrier defense situations. The P-51 was used normally as a fighter escort and attacker. Mosquito, F4U, and Typhoon used as ground attackers due to their armament and ordnance capabilities. The gv/ship gun obviously as a last ditch defense effort.
What killed me?
P-51 leads the race with 52
Spit IX next in the pack with 45
LA-7 Next (little bastages) with 38
N1K2/P-38/F6F/SpitV each with 20
D9 and G10 with 15 apiece
Ostwind rounds out with 39 (flying too dang low 'n slow)
Since then my flying style has changed (due to severe boredom with the game) but this is a decent example of complete statistics.
What can be taken is my two primary airplanes that tour, were divided in time between attack/escort mission and strictly defense situations. Tending away from basic "furballing" while trying to get things done with the squadron. Perking Spitfires and P-51's is insane as they are probably the most well known aircraft (and two of the most beautiful) airplanes and when a new pilot logs on they're going to want to fly what their hero's flew. I'm sure if you took a survey or recorded the data, P-51's are probably the most frequently flown 'first plane' by new players simply because they are familiar with them. Whether they saw one at an airshow, discovery wings channel, or just flying along (an all too rare but cherished moment none the less).
My vote is to leave the P-51 and Spit IX alone, as well as the niki (though i don't fly it) because its docile enough to handle and is well armored which suits the beginning flyer...and its not invincible (just ask RV6 when he comes up against my Delta Pony).
On another note...(note bold font, avoided the use of caps lock)
The LA-7 is a whole other story. i hate that little bastard. Perk the hell out of it. If the Spit XIV is perked then so is the LA-7 as far as i'm concerned, and I dont fly either. The LA-7 and LA-5 have a similiar relationship to the Typhoon/Tempest i believe. The first version, slightly less powerful and effective than the successor...the Typhoon was somewhat a failure during the war where the Tempest flourished. As the case should be with the younger brother LA-5, and the big brother LA-7. If you're not perking the LA-7, unperk the Tempest.
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Planes should only be perked if that particular plane has a negative effect on game play if there weren't perked, like the Me262 or Me163 (IMO the only two planes that should be perked). The Spitfire Mk IX, La7, P-51D or the N1K2, even with increased usage doesn't negatively effect the game play in the arena and any calls for them to be perked just because one person thinks that too many fly it is just plain silly. You sound like MANDOBLE.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You sound like MANDOBLE.
Ack-Ack
Was that addressed to me?
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Unperk the Chog and I bet you IT won't even achieve its old usage.
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What the "perk the 4 or 5 most popular planes" crowd never seems to realize is that there always must be 4 or 5 most popular airplanes. The current popular airplanes have pretty good parity with each other and none of them is really used all that much, so there's no need at all to perk them.
J_A_B
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Why would perking these planes lightly be such a negative thing? It seems a little variety would be a good thing, at least in my opinion. Would 3-5 perks be that un-afforadable? Do that many people not have perks to spend?
Terror
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Originally posted by Terror
How about perking the "Big Four" for about 5 perkies?
The "Big Four" being:
Spit IX
N1K2-J
La7
P-51D
Just a light PERK to see if the plane usage balances a bit...
Don't slap me too hard.... it's just an idea....
Terror
Rather than do this, just extend the perk system to the scoring side. Then you would see a lot more of the "other" planes and a lot less of these.
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why perk a plane for heavy use? I like both the 51 and spit -- 51 because it affords me the chance to live in a gang bang environment (it isnt particulary fun to fight in, but is fast). The spit is just plain fun, yet it isnt particularly survivable. The lala, with its invisible rocket assist and e-resevoir seems to be the trickiest to kill (unless I am flying it :( ) and the niki, while dangerous, is fairly easy to beat.
People fly the "big 4" because they fit a particular style of fighting. I don't feel either one of them unbalances play. I do like the idea of unperking the spit 14 though.......
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Originally posted by Terror
Why would perking these planes lightly be such a negative thing? It seems a little variety would be a good thing, at least in my opinion. Would 3-5 perks be that un-afforadable? Do that many people not have perks to spend?
Terror
Agreed, if people cant afford the measley 7-15 perks the Chog pilots spend, then they probably aren't worth their salt in those rides, anyway. if you're a good pilot, it shouldn't matter if your ride is perked or not, but the free rides excuse the pilots for giving a damn either way if they rtb or not.
The people complainig about perked rides are the ones least likely to rtb from most of their missions, anyway.
With that being said, reduce the F4U-4 Perks! :)
Gainsie
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Red Tail 444,
Here are how the numbers came out last tour for perked prop fighters, listed cheapest to most expensive:
Tour 36 numbers:
The F4U-1C costs 10 perk points
The F4U-1C has 9720 kills and has been killed 3848 times for a K/D ratio of 2.53 to 1.
The Ta152H-1 costs 20 perk points
The Ta 152H has 1067 kills and has been killed 475 times for a K/D ratio of 2.25 to 1.
The F4U-4 costs 50 perk points
The F4U-4 has 1127 kills and has been killed 402 times for a K/D ratio of 2.8 to 1.
The Spitfire Mk XIV costs 60 perk points
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 845 kills and has been killed 512 times for a K/D ratio of 1.65 to 1.
The Tempest costs 70 perk points
The Tempest has 2088 kills and has been killed 483 times for a K/D ratio of 4.32 to 1.
What perk values should these other fighters have if the F4U-4 is too expensive?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Red Tail 444,
[snip]
What perk values should these other fighters have if the F4U-4 is too expensive?
The F4U-4's only real advantage is speed... Heck, the La-7 as fast if not faster than the F4u-4 and can easily out turn it, PLUS the La-7 is free AND carries cannons!
I would put the F4u-4 at around 25-30 Perks.
Terror
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Ok I personally think the perk system is fine. If guys want to fly the so called "dweeb" [there are no dweeb planes] planes then so be it. I try to find a plane each tour and work its "kinks" out! I recently started flying the LA7 of DEATH and had three guys state....
HOW THE HELL DOES AN LA7 OUT TURN A SPIT IX?
HOW THE HELL DOES AN LA7 OUT TURN (insert plane here)?
Guys and Gals...it was mentioned before....ITS NOT THE PLANE its how its flown.
Energy management and knowledge of corner velocity AND basic ACM is the key to getting and landing kills.
Remember you can use your speed and alt to advantages....if you are in a low slow spit and I am in an CO Alt LA7 (my plane of choice last tour and this one) If you dont know how to use your plane you will get shot down. If I allow myself to get sloppy you will shoot me down.
BOTTOM LINE its the pilot and his situational awareness and skill that gets the kills NOT THE PLANE.
My 2.5 cents....:D
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Originally posted by Terror
The F4U-4's only real advantage is speed...
This isnt really true....
The f4u4's only real advantage is DECK speed, on the deck the la7 is the only free plane that can catch it(and that is only at about a 2-3mph advantage) 2000feet up though, the f4u4 fallls into a big hole.
Between about 2000 and 18000feet, the dora outruns the f4u4. The p51d does between about 4 and 14k.
It's not an exceptionally fast plane, nor does it have exceptional climb rates. It's not a bad plane, but it's on par with the free planes. It's only real advantage is that a dive to the deck can escape most planes. (Though if the deck isn't at sea level, you're in trouble) It's massive torqe makes maneuvering even trickier than the other f4u's.
The problem with perk planes in the current system is that unless they completly dominate the competition(lik the 262 and 163 do) even at a disadvantage, they're not worth flying. You WILL get bounced, you WILL run into people who will do anything to kill you.
Perk planes should be brought into some use by giving the prop perk planes standard icons, not the perk gangbang tags. Without the gangbang tags, a perk plane doesn't need to be able to outperform everything in the air to survive.
As it stands, the only way to survive in a perk plane is to never get to be at a disadvantage. If someone spots a perk plane at a disadvantage, he's going to do everything to try and bag the perk plane. Not because it's more dangerous, simply because it is a perk plane.
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And guttboy, the la7 is an exceptionally maneuverable plane. It shouldnt be able to out-turn a spit, but anything that can keep up with it, it can out turn at decent speeds. (A lot of planes can get inside an la7 by using flaps, but any smart la7 pilot would simply continue on, let you slow down, and then turn around and kill your now slow plane.)
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Well said, Innominate.
I was looking at your custom stats page. Very nice. Is there any way you could share your code? As an example of how you are gathering the data?
Thanx!
Aaron E.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Red Tail 444,
Here are how the numbers came out last tour for perked prop fighters, listed cheapest to most expensive:
Tour 36 numbers:
The F4U-1C costs 10 perk points
The F4U-1C has 9720 kills and has been killed 3848 times for a K/D ratio of 2.53 to 1.
The Ta152H-1 costs 20 perk points
The Ta 152H has 1067 kills and has been killed 475 times for a K/D ratio of 2.25 to 1.
The F4U-4 costs 50 perk points
The F4U-4 has 1127 kills and has been killed 402 times for a K/D ratio of 2.8 to 1.
The Spitfire Mk XIV costs 60 perk points
The Spitfire Mk XIV has 845 kills and has been killed 512 times for a K/D ratio of 1.65 to 1.
The Tempest costs 70 perk points
The Tempest has 2088 kills and has been killed 483 times for a K/D ratio of 4.32 to 1.
What perk values should these other fighters have if the F4U-4 is too expensive?
Ummmm....the ones I can afford! :)
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For whoever said the La7 can easily out turn the F4u4 pass me that pipe...
F4u4 doesn't suffer like the other F4's in the vert... (it can get out of its own way unlike the other f4's) with its flaps it can easily out turn the LA7.. Throw in tricks below 300mph like brakes and gear deployment and a rudder from hell and the LA7 has it hands full... (it can run... thats about it...)
Just becuase most dont know what their doing doesn't mean the plane is incapable.
trust me... The f4U4 deserves its perk...
Now should say a La7 be unperked i dont agree... ITs stats are really skewed right now do to the dweebery flying it..
put me in it , its like a g10 with no lockup and superior firepower and fuel endurance.
near unstoppable...
luckily for the main. most people worth their salt would never fly that dweebmobile.
Hence we spared the endless hoards... even wiht the deterent of being called a LA7 dweeb it still gets much use... just not hoarde status...
2 cents..
DoctorYo
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Wow, the Spitfire XIV really needs to be unperked. A 1.65 to 1 K/D ratio isn't exactly showing it as a terribly uber aircraft.
As for the perk tag suggestion fielded earlier, I wouldn't have agreed a while ago but after taking a Spit XIV out earlier thinking it was a IX and having every plane dive out of orbit to join in the severe beating of me I've changed my stance. People will in fact go to extreme measures to get the perk ride, even if it's certain the player in the perk ride has no chance of survival as it is. If I were in a 9 rather than a 14, I have no doubts that the numbers of planes in the fray for my leftovers would have been lessened considerably.
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Innominate,
I am not saying that the LA7 is not maneuverable by any means. If you re read my post you will see that I am not assuming this. What I am stating that depending on the plane you fly ANY plane..it all depends on how you use it and how you employ it in its envelope.
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Lol Manx!
You yourself tossed away 2 spit 14's just recently, not realizing what you were flying..
Think thats a big contributor to its poor K/D.. ppl flying them 1) and not realizing its not a sp9 2) flying them like a sp9
SKurj
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
F4u4 doesn't suffer like the other F4's in the vert... (it can get out of its own way unlike the other f4's) with its flaps it can easily out turn the LA7.. Throw in tricks below 300mph like brakes and gear deployment and a rudder from hell and the LA7 has it hands full... (it can run... thats about it...)
What the hell f4u4 are you flying?
The f4u4 has an acceptable climb rate, but still is not able to out-climb most planes.
At sea level it's about 3700, a few thousand feet up it drops off sharply, and is little better than the p51 or spit9. It's climb rate is workable, but nothing special.
At low speed in the f4u4, having the nose pointed up is dangerous. The plane has engine torque which seems to be second only to the spit14. (Why do some of these planes like the f4u4, spit14, etc seem to have INCREDIBLE prop torque, while others like the spit9, n1k2, and p51d have virtually none? Is it just the age of the flight model?)
For fighting in the vertical, the p51 is a far better aircraft.
Anyways against an la7, the f4u4 has ONE thing it can beat the la7 with. It cant outclimb, or run away(unless it has an e-advantage) It can get slow. It can drop it's flaps all the way and turn, and if the la7 tries to follow, it will lose.
Or if the la7 is smart, he'll level out, accellerate a bit, and now have complete control over the fight against a plane with barely enough energy to maneuver. Sure you can use a number of tricks(The gear brakes are a good one) to delay it, but every time you do you commit yourself to eventually getting killed, while also making yourself an EASY target to anyone else in the area, who by now has latched onto your perk tags and is desperatly trying to steal the kill.
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INCREDIBLE prop torque, while others like the spit9, n1k2, and p51d have virtually none? Is it just the age of the flight model?)
The F4 is extremely High on P Factor/Torque. The reason the Wings were bent is because of the size of the prop. Nicknamed the Ensign Killer...spelling sucks sorry...due to that fact.
P51 has good torque and pfactor but no where near the F4 models.
And I agree put me up on an F4 any day in the LA7...will be a good fight.
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You yourself tossed away 2 spit 14's just recently, not realizing what you were flying..
I agree Skurj, but the same could be said about other planes like the F4U's that remain similar to their unperked counterparts. But you did bring up a good point in that you need to fly perk planes very carefully in order to survive in similar environments as other planes.
My statement was to say the Spit XIV for some reason isn't any more of a threat in the arena than some of the better unperked fighters. It dosen't matter whether it's the perk tag, or performance loss....it's visibility in the MA and it's statistics just don't warrant a high perking like it's got.
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Screw it, perk EVERYTHING!:D
Log on= 2 perk points (it'll cost ya to get yer arse full o' lead)
Use of vox= 4 perkies (those annoying conversations that clog the radio's will cost ya)
CH1 banter= 10 perkies (it'll cost ya to spew yer personal political views so everyone can hear)
Bailing out= 5 perkies (screw you dweeb, walk home and pay for the priviledge)
Augering= 7 perkies (you'll pay fer ruining a perfectly good airplane!)
Rearm pad useage= 9 perkies (you'll pay ya lazy twit fer not checking in at the control tower!)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Originally posted by guttboy
The F4 is extremely High on P Factor/Torque. The reason the Wings were bent is because of the size of the prop. Nicknamed the Ensign Killer...spelling sucks sorry...due to that fact.
P51 has good torque and pfactor but no where near the F4 models.
And I agree put me up on an F4 any day in the LA7...will be a good fight.
P-Factor requires an angle between axis of rotation of the prop and velocity of the aircraft. This angle is usually very close to zero - therefore the forces due to P-factor are almost zero. Taking into account that they're even small at relatively large angles, they're unnoticable (except maybe on helicoptering Spit5s and Nikis :rolleyes: )
What you're looking for is helix shaped prop wash hitting the vertical stabilizer (f4us large props let's lot of air rotate and the vstab isn't small either - that's why it's so big there).
IIRC the Ensign Killer was the -1 (without the stall plate, that later was fitted).
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P-Factor is where the descending blade takes a "bigger bite" of air than the ascending blade. This is directly related to angle of attack, which at lower speeds and/or high G is high. This is would be a factor in the "torque" feel of a plane during heavy manuevering. (Also a contributor to the "snap" into a stall.)
The other 3 turning factors are: Torque, Slipstream, and Gyroscopic Precession.
Need to start a new thread if ya all wanna know about this stuff.
I still say lightly perking the P51d, La7, N1K2-J, and SpitIX would be a good thing for the MA. And lowering the F4u4's perk cost 20 or so points would be good also.
Terror
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There is good variety in the MA currently. Why screw it up?
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
There is good variety in the MA currently. Why screw it up?
J_A_B
Out of 65 planes, these planes have 40+% of all kills in the MA. Doesn't look like variety to me!! I would expect 10-13 planes to make up that percentage of kills, not just four.
Terror
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currently, these 4 have 20% of all kills, with an overall k/d ratio of 1.02:1, hardly an unbalancing #. There has to be a perk "line" somewhere, if we start perking fighters that actually flew in large #'s late in the war, then we will see bunches of the best fighters that flew early in the war. I don't believe it is wise to mess with the perkie system unless something gets way out of whack...but HT could perk all gv's! :D
bockk
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Originally posted by bockko
currently, these 4 have 20% of all kills, with an overall k/d ratio of 1.02:1, hardly an unbalancing #. There has to be a perk "line" somewhere, if we start perking fighters that actually flew in large #'s late in the war, then we will see bunches of the best fighters that flew early in the war. I don't believe it is wise to mess with the perkie system unless something gets way out of whack...but HT could perk all gv's! :D
bockk
So in the first 9 days of the tour, these planes having 20% of the kills does not seem like a lack of variety? So you are saying that 6% of the plane set should have 20-50% of the overall kill total? Doesn't that seems a little off to anyone else??!!
Terror
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I guess you don't remember the days in other games when 2 planes would account for 70% of total usage.
AH has the most variety of any flightsim I've yet played. Eventually, with restrictions like perks, you move beyond "variety" and just start to piss people off, especially when we're talking about famous, popular aircraft like Spit 9's and P-51D's. Some of the perked AH aircraft, like the Ta-152, are already "questionable"....hence justifying even more perkage is IMO difficult.
J_A_B
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LA7, spit9 and N1k are good candidates for light perking.
These are the only rides in AH that can B&Z and T&B with almost every other plane and do it damn well. Most of the times they do both at once.. like the n1k, the Turn & Zoom wonder.
Also the fact that it takes very little skill to actually fly these things succesfully (read: get kills, rtb not required) makes them an even better choice for the quake crowds.
The CHOG is a perfect example of such a plane. When it was THE king of the entire arena it was before its FM fix (it was too light).. easy to fly as incredibly well armed. It gets perked lightly and voila! Balance returns to the arena and has been kept out of the hands of the quake hordes ever since.
Yet you look up at the sky now... and its La7's, N1ks and spits being 90% of what you WILL encounter out there, every sortie, guaranteed.
Other planes are "faster" or "turn better" or are "better armed".. but none other is "faster" "turns better" AND is "better armed" than the huge majority of the damned planeset all in one. And this is precisely why the LA7, N1k and Spit9 shine so much & get abused so much.
So yeah, PERK THEM.
2 perks each. Cheap as hell, lets see if the quake hordes can keep upping them if they dont RTB them.
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If u perked the spitIX, la7, p51D, n1k2 you'll probably have fewer planes making up 20% of the kills. The spitIX and n1k2 crowd would fly the spitV and then p51 and la7 crowd would fly the tiffie (yes the d9 usage would up but not as much as the tiffie).
So instead of a big 4 we would then have a big 2- which would be even worse. If you want to see more variety instead of restricting planes it may be better to release some of the perk planes. If the spitXIV, f4u4 and ta152 were unperked I really wouldn't mind personally- it could even smooth out the big 4. Although the sky would probably be full of them for a couple of days it'll probably settle down after that. All 3 of these have various aircraft that are faster than them at typical MA alts. There isn't a huge LW crowd to begin with and it's unlikely that all of them will fly the ta152- i can't see it being unbalancing. There are a lot of guys that fly spits but if they think it'll be a fast spitIX they'll be mistaken- the torque will put a lot of the TnBers off. The f4u4 isn't exactly uber either, although fast on the deck a lot of the late war birds will run it down between 5-15k. It too has it's fair share of torque.
Also my fave ride is the spit IX, so nooooooooo don't perk it.:D
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Originally posted by J_A_B
I guess you don't remember the days in other games when 2 planes would account for 70% of total usage.
AH has the most variety of any flightsim I've yet played. Eventually, with restrictions like perks, you move beyond "variety" and just start to piss people off, especially when we're talking about famous, popular aircraft like Spit 9's and P-51D's. Some of the perked AH aircraft, like the Ta-152, are already "questionable"....hence justifying even more perkage is IMO difficult.
J_A_B
Is 3-5 perkies for these rides really that unaffordable? I really don't understand the resistance to a very light perk on these planes.
I also don't agree with the N1K driver going to the SpitV. It's too slow. And the P51d and the La7 going to the TYPH? I doubt it, because the TYPH does not have the turn capability of either of these planes. If they did migrate to them, they would just die more often....
And remember you don't loose the perks, unless you loose the plane....
Terror
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Terror if you perk a ride people move to the next best thing. Remove the spitIX and n1k people will flock to the spitV- the SpitV already has quite a large usage already. The SpitV would basically have SpitV + SpitIX + n1k kills altogether- it would more than double the amount of kills #2 spot would have. You think people who fly the n1k wont fly the Spit? People fly the n1k for it's turning and it's cannons not for it's speed, the closest plane to the n1k is the spitV.
It's the same for p51 and the la7- the closet plane performance wise is the tiffie. People don't fly the p51 and la7 for their turning ability so the tiffies turning ability doesn't really come into the equation (even though it's turning is about average anyway).
Even if you lightly perk the 4 main rides at 5 perks each you'll affect the majority of the game. I have 1000's of perks but the majority of people don't. The majority of people struggle to maintain a 1:1 so assuming they get .5 perks for every kill (they die for every kill so perks awarded are halved) it'll take people on average 10 flights to get to fly a cheap perk ride. Thats quite an impact.
I stand by my previous statement. If you perk the big 4 you'll only end up with a big 2.
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bah, The solution isnt to stop people from flying the dweeb rides.
It wont happen. If it does, there will be just a new set of dweeb rides. It is impossible for them not to exist. What needs to be done is, flying planes OTHER than the dweeb rides needs to be encouraged.
First, We already have the perk system in places, which with a few small changes could promote the perk-earning planes a lot more. (And yes, some ENY's need to be adjusted) The problem with the perk system as is, is that earning perks is generally more fun than using them. All of the prop perk planes are a pain in the bellybutton to fly. It's not a reward, you get punished for flying them. The prop perk planes should be a REWARD for earning the perks, NOT a punishment for using a "better" plane. The gangbang tags on them should go. (Excepting the jets/rocket, just the prop planes)
I can't speak for anyone else, but the entire reason I never fly the prop perk planes is that they all are only slightly better than an unperked cousin, and carry the tags which everyone in the area will lock onto.
If using the perk planes were as reward, and not a punishment, they would see more use, and perks would mean more than a general guage of how well your last sortie went.
Second, stats. In the current score system, it doesnt take into account what you fly at all. If you land a 5 kill sortie in an la7, it's just as good in the score system as landing 5 kills in a 109e or p40b.
Third, jabos. Several of the most used fighters are used largely because of thier heavy jabo loadout, which excludes many aircraft that simply cant carry the bombload.
My Jabo Proposal. (http://death.innomi.com/uploads/jabos.html)
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Thrila, there are alot of planes out there that are "almost" planes. Why would a La7 pilot not move to a La5? Or the N1K pilot to the Ki61? P51D drivers would probably move to the P51B, wouldn't you agree? Which comes back to my original statement of more variety.
The N1K -> SpitV ... Sure some would, but it has the one HUGE disadvatage that almost EVERY plane can run from it (Except the Hurri's.) Most people HATE when they are ran from. The N1K has enough speed to stop this from happening....(Its accelleration is outstanding...)
And .5 perks per mission?? That is because they are flying the dweeb rides that have the really LOW ENY value. Take up the F4u-1 and landing 5 perks is MUCH easier (Actually many times landing is optional and you can still earn 5+ perks). And the Hurri2c is one of the best perk earners. I've had 11 and 12 kill runs several times in it for over 25 earned perks!!! So by getting them to fly the higher ENY value planes, you are helping them earn perks.
Innominate: The TEMP is one of the prop planes that really deserves it's perk value. It is a killer second only to the Me262. It has excellent turning capability and is fastest plane up to about 15K.
Terror
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Is it time for us all to sing "Perk 'Em All!" yet?
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No need to fool with the perks. Just extend the ENY system to scoring, then you will see more diversity.
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Originally posted by Toad
Is it time for us all to sing "Perk 'Em All!" yet?
Nope, just the "Big Four".
And I do agree the ENY values for all planes need revisited, but I don't think this would change the plane usage much. People that fly these planes are not worried about earning perks, if they were they would be using higher ENY value planes.
Terror
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Originally posted by Terror
Innominate: The TEMP is one of the prop planes that really deserves it's perk value. It is a killer second only to the Me262. It has excellent turning capability and is fastest plane up to about 15K.
All of the perk planes deserve thier prices IMO. The problem isnt the price, the problem is what happens when you fly them. None of the prop perk planes have the survivability of the 262 or the 163, which can escape a bad place without much trouble. The prop perks cant do this, and have tags which make everyone who can point thier guns at you do so. To survive in them, you don't just need to be carefull, you need to be downright paranoid.
The P-51D is a far more survivable plane than the F4U-4 which slightly outperforms it. Simply because if you're in an f4u4, people will do anything to kill you. All because of the whole "I got the perk plane!!" attitude.
Perk planes should offer an advantage over the free planes, not a giant disadvantage. Why would someone BUY a plane that is going to be less fun to fly? This is the fundamental problem with perk planes.
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Well I have a secret weapon that increases my K/D ratio....
I have these special scooby-doo boxers which when I wear them doesn't matter which plane I fly, it becomes an uber-plane and I get more kills than when I wear my tighty-whities.
Too all you Perk Whiners!
I'll be damned if my shorts ever get perked!!
Cheers
Damned Nexus
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Does HTC ever post any opinions on perking airplanes? Do they have a "criteria" they use to set perk values and.or ENY values?
Terror
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Originally posted by Terror
Does HTC ever post any opinions on perking airplanes? Do they have a "criteria" they use to set perk values and.or ENY values?
I don't think there is a specific criterea, but AFAIK, the p51d is the bar above which a plane will be perked.
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Originally posted by OIO
LA7, spit9 and N1k are good candidates for light perking.
These are the only rides in AH that can B&Z and T&B with almost every other plane and do it damn well. Most of the times they do both at once.. like the n1k, the Turn & Zoom wonder.
Also the fact that it takes very little skill to actually fly these things succesfully (read: get kills, rtb not required) makes them an even better choice for the quake crowds.
The CHOG is a perfect example of such a plane. When it was THE king of the entire arena it was before its FM fix (it was too light).. easy to fly as incredibly well armed. It gets perked lightly and voila! Balance returns to the arena and has been kept out of the hands of the quake hordes ever since.
Yet you look up at the sky now... and its La7's, N1ks and spits being 90% of what you WILL encounter out there, every sortie, guaranteed.
Other planes are "faster" or "turn better" or are "better armed".. but none other is "faster" "turns better" AND is "better armed" than the huge majority of the damned planeset all in one. And this is precisely why the LA7, N1k and Spit9 shine so much & get abused so much.
So yeah, PERK THEM.
2 perks each. Cheap as hell, lets see if the quake hordes can keep upping them if they dont RTB them.
....What He said... No big deal and I say 5-7 perks, and add the typhoon and Dora to that as well. And we'll also notice the HO become less common as well.
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Then of course you'd have to go add the Yak9U and all the late war 109's and 190's. Then there would be room to suggest that the B17 and Lancasters perform a large percent of the bomber sorties, thus should be perked etc....
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ManX, it's refreshing to see your humor is not limited to one thread. Do you fear flying a perked ride?
At least you're being consistent. Happy Valentines Day, everyone.
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Not really red. I fly perked rides now and then, and don't mind losing them when I do. I could fly perked planes for a very long time before having to worry about it much. Having said that, I don't think the current perk system is all that bad or that all players are in the same situation as myself. My statement, no matter how silly it seems is an honest one. Check on B17 stats, and decide for yourself what percent of the kills it holds over other bombers. If you are to equate kills with ridership, then this would definitelly have to be perked more heavily than many of the existing perk fighters.
I don't personally think the B17 should be perked, but I don't think a mid-war plane like the Spit9 should either. I'd perk the La7 and N1k's because I don't fly them, but I think that would be how a lot of people are already saying it should be. Just because I don't like them, see too many of them, or lose to them, dosen't mean it should be perked.
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I think we can agree to disagree. I believe, and wouldnt have a problem with all of the aforementioned planes getting perked. I'm pretty new to the game (14 months) but I can also see how it's already going downhill, with the endless HO, fly till you die mentality so rampant inhere. The perk is a penalty earned for not giving a hoot about one's virtual life. With that said, does every plane need to be perked? of course not, but I for one would like to see a little strategy return to the game, and not the senseless furballing, and subsequent trash talking so prevalent in the game today.
Signing off.
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not to digress redtail, but there really isn't an endless stream of HO's. You can easily avoid them with just a little rudder and aileron. Hordes of nmy is another story, but again, as in real life, you have to pick your fights. Many people fly till they die, or my favorite one to watch, dive bomb a carrier, dying right alongside their eggs. And their is strategy, you just have to fly with the strategic thinkers (not the knowitalls). As for trash talk, it IS bad here but HT has given us squelch...I squelch ch 1 every time I log in.
What I am trying to say is that the game is NOT going downhill, and we don't need any more perking.
But HT should unperk the spit 14...after all, it only has 240 rounds of cannon!
bockk
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Gotta chime in here with the previous message. Endless headons? IT TAKES TWO! Simple as that....if you dont like them then avoid them simple as that.
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This thread has MOVED me so EMOTIONALLY!
It's definitely time.
I MUST break into song!
All together now!
"Perk 'em all!
Perk 'em all!
The large and the fast and the small.
Perk all the Nikkis and all La's too,
Perk anything that can shoot back at you!
`cause they're asking to just perk 'em all
As back to their Gruppen they crawl,
There'll be constant crying
as long as they're dying,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!
Nobody knows if the FM's are true,
So cheer up, my lads,
Perk 'em all!"
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Good one Toad!
OK NOW LETS MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
END THE MISERY ON THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D
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This tour so far. (Not counting GV kills.) The "Big Four" have approximately 30% of the total kills. I still think a light balancing effort short be applied. Even 3 perks on each of the four would help spread the usage out.
I skipped the GV count due to the overwhelming usage of the GVs due to the extremely popular "Crater City" on Trinity.
Terror
PS. Toad, nice poem. But just perk the Big Four.....
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Gawd, I hate the perk system! ALL OF IT!
Think of all the time and effort HTC spent on developing a perk-u-system, and programming the perk-u-lator to tally 'em with. (A monumental task made even more daunting since it probably required hiding HiTech's scotch due to the need for extended brainstorming!). Not to mention listening to all the pissing and moaning, followed by adjusting and refining, then re-implementing... etc... ad nausium...
Then imagine that time being spent on things like damage modelling, bugs, R&D, etc. Where "uber" planes are developed in 'Sets', 'pairs', or 'groups' of similar ac, negating the need for perks. (ie: an ME-262 is countered by it's British, or American equivalent, etc.).
Hell, I'll bet we'd gain 20 or 30% more bandwidth from not having anymore "Perk This" threads!
And right after all the scorepotatos exploded, MY perfect world would once again be spinning in greased grooves!
hehehe
S!
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So we would have an arena of Me262 vs. Meteor. No other planes would be flown. They would not be able to compete.
Terror