Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on February 05, 2003, 11:14:06 PM
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My prediction?
No.
Why?
Oil and Money.
If they don't kick in and help when push comes to shove in Iraq, when it's over the lease deals they got goin on the Southern Basra Oil fields will dissapear with the old regime. France stands to lose a heluva lot more financially by supporting Hussein and getting frozen out after he's gone than they do by backing our play and thereby earning a place at the table when the shooting stops.
No tickee, no takee.
This afternnon, their aircraft carrier set sail for the eastern Med, and they put their troops on alert.
Ain't THAT interesting. ;)
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Europeans Strive to Tighten Trade Ties with Iraq (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2002/0919threats.htm)
Written Sept/02
Last year, France ranked No. 1 among European countries doing business with Iraq, with $1.5 billion in trade, followed by Italy, with $1 billion. Among the countries that trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program, France ranked third, with $3.1 billion in trade since the program's start 1996. French trade under the program was surpassed only by Russia, with $4.3 billion, and Egypt, according to United Nations diplomats.
The French oil giant TotalFinaElf has the largest position in Iraq, with exclusive negotiating rights to develop Majnoon, a field on the Iranian border with estimated reserves of 10 billion barrels, and Bin Umar, with an estimated production potential of 440,000 barrels a day, according to oil industry executives.
The biggest deals after that were expected to go to ENI of Italy, to develop the Nassiriyah field at a cost of $1.9 billion. Moscow has a $3.5 billion, 23-year agreement with Baghdad to rehabilitate several Iraqi fields that would vastly benefit a Russian oil consortium led by LukOil, they said.
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Whelp.. the Italians hopped on board earlier this week.. and I suspect the Rooski's like the French will hem and haw for a few more days; then hop on board just like everybody else. Wouldn't do fer the froggies or the Ivans to be too damn quick to back our play.. don't play well in the circle of home opinion to be too quick to play ball with the americans. But back our play they will... or they'll not get any of the pie when it's over.
Muahahhahhaaa.. just grab 'em by the proverbial balls and their hearts and minds do follow. ;)
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at this point they shouldn't even be invited. diddly em. They'd rather support a dictator than help free the Iraqi people. Feed em fish eggs.
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I highly doubt it.
They know the US is going in despite any veto they pull, and they're going to want a say in a post-war Iraq. Additionally, if the US invades without UN approval (which it would), it weakens the UN immensly and ultimately negates this special status France has as veto power. Then France, on the world stage, becomes.... what?
As much as I like thoughtful deliberation about the upcoming war, France is acting purely out of self interest imho... and it's also this self interest which will finally put them on the side of war.
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French wouldn't want to offend anyone. They just want to do what they do best.
(http://www.raf303.org/mietla/france.jpg)
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Originally posted by Udie
at this point they shouldn't even be invited. diddly em. They'd rather support a dictator than help free the Iraqi people. Feed em fish eggs.
Awwww, isn't that nice.
You actually believe you're going in there to "free the Iraqi people."
:rolleyes:
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No, hell no. We're goin in there to do a lil self righteous indignant pissed off bellybutton kickin, change a regime, divvy up the spoils of pissin us off, stablize the region at the points of a toejam storm of sub launched tomahawks...
..and then we're gonna re-deploy to the pacific.
:D
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LOL... doesn't matter... This is Bush SR's war.. everything else is an excuse
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LOL mietla :D That is so true!
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heh right Moloch, i still wondering why the US even care what French or Germany
is doing, at the end they will attack Iraq with the UN or without.
Happy war! ;)
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Ive always found the French to be an arrogant people with not much to be arrogant about.
They also need a history lesson.
They will not veto.
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French Gov't:
(http://www.attrition.org/gallery/computing/forum/bandwagon.jpg)
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Saurdaukar - how many times have you been to France? I like both it and the French. They don't have bulllovely laws or HSE departments, and you don't get sued for stepping on someone's toes unlike the US and the UK. I've made some good friends there.
Their countryside is beautiful, their weather excellent and their wine probably the best in the world. Sure there are some arrogant fools, but you'll find that anywhere in the world.
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My comment describes most of the people of France (read - not all) - not the country itself. Quite frankly, Ive never seen such a beautiful country - and although not much of a wine drinker - I agree that French wine is generally considered the best by those in the know.
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France will eventually agree because if they do not then they will be shown to be irrelevant. The would never allow that to happen. Germany would hold back support for the war even if the war goes ahead though. They do not mind be thought of as irrelevant by the rest of the western world.
France likes to cause the US to bow and scrape before them "proving" what they already know then they can say "We held back the warmongering US until we were satisfied of the proof" as if they had anything to do with it.
The picture of France sniffing Germany's bellybutton is classic. I love it.
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Originally posted by Toad
Europeans Strive to Tighten Trade Ties with Iraq (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2002/0919threats.htm)
Written Sept/02
bbbbb...bingo
ditto for Germany
Iraq a major tradin partner for both of them so of course they don't want to upset the apple cart - that is exactly why what they have to say on the issue is irrelevant.........and our leaders know it.
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So you've met most of the people of France then, Saurdaukar? That must have been quite a task. You must have arms of steel to do all that hand-shaking.
Or are you making such a statement on the back of prejudice as the result of meeting maybe a score of French people, out of a total population of 60 million?
No matter. A similar remark concerning the US would attract a plethora of remarks involving the words 'US hater', 'anti-American', maybe even 'f**ker'. But it's ok to do that with the populations of other countries it would seem.
A far more sensible approach would be to criticise the French government. Afterall, it is they who are making the policies. Then again, if you did that with the US government, you would attract a plethora of remarks involving the words 'US hater', 'anti-American', maybe even 'f**ker'.
It's a funny old world, innit?
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I guess its REPOST TIME! :D
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Originally posted by Dowding
So you've met most of the people of France then, Saurdaukar? That must have been quite a task. You must have arms of steel to do all that hand-shaking.
Or are you making such a statement on the back of prejudice as the result of meeting maybe a score of French people, out of a total population of 60 million?
No matter. A similar remark concerning the US would attract a plethora of remarks involving the words 'US hater', 'anti-American', maybe even 'f**ker'. But it's ok to do that with the populations of other countries it would seem.
A far more sensible approach would be to criticise the French government. Afterall, it is they who are making the policies. Then again, if you did that with the US government, you would attract a plethora of remarks involving the words 'US hater', 'anti-American', maybe even 'f**ker'.
It's a funny old world, innit?
Yes, yes, yes - I have shook the hand of every Frenchman that walks (and crawls). But funnily enough - Ive never had much contact with Brits (Except for Hammy - and I dont think you want him shaping my opinion of the rest of you. I suppose its understandable, however - maybe if you had a building over six stories, you'd understand 9/11.) ;)
In the spirit of surrender, however, Ill conceed that you are indeed wise and just, and I should have directed my comments at the French government. SO! Without further ado! :::Imagine a stupid Yank giving the ol' two finger salute::: :D
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Yep, Toad has got it right. France might veto, and it's all got to do with money.
On the other hand, trading with Iraq isn't as bad as selling biological weapons to Iraq, well knowing they'll be used.
But that's a red herring. France will do what the US does; protect its national interests. And right now, they're colliding with that of the US - at least that's what the French think. I think they'll reconsider when Saddam sells some VMDs to some Algerian fundamentalists who decide to take revenge on Paris.
They're wrong here - straffo, you have a chance to show them. Don't vote for 'em if they keep this double standards BS up.
Udie wrote:
at this point they shouldn't even be invited. diddly em. They'd rather support a dictator than help free the Iraqi people. Feed em fish eggs
No, they'd rather have more inspections (i.e secure their economic interests) rather than a war, which isn't akin to backing the dictator. Their trading with Iraq is indirect support however. Then again, the US offered direct support, military intelligence and WMDs not so long ago. But on this, the US is right; either he stops his roadkill, which he won't, or he gets blown to smithereens.
Just wanted to clear this misrepresentation of the French position. Before anyone else yells 'they support a dictator', it should be noted that the US supported the same man not so long ago.
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I don't think France or the other nation's in the U.N. will veto the U.S. going in to take out Hussein. If they do, and the U.S. goes ahead without U.N. approval, then the U.N. is neutered and goes the road of the League of Nations. Even if they don't think its right, they don't care enough about Hussein to risk their voice within the U.N. becoming meaningless.
I think they are just raising objections so they can extract favors from us for their support, and so that they can play both sides of the fence depending on the outcome and who they are talking to.
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Originally posted by Lance
I don't think France or the other nation's in the U.N. will veto the U.S. going in to take out Hussein. If they do, and the U.S. goes ahead without U.N. approval, then the U.N. is neutered and goes the road of the League of Nations. Even if they don't think its right, they don't care enough about Hussein to risk their voice within the U.N. becoming meaningless.
I think they are just raising objections so they can extract favors from us for their support, and so that they can play both sides of the fence depending on the outcome and who they are talking to.
Very astute and 100% correct.
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Santa we just need a bit of knowledge from our fellow american so instead of making money with Iraq will make a lot money with China.
As you see we can make money with any barbaric country.
I sincerly hope that France will veto just to piss those French basher.
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
heh right Moloch, i still wondering why the US even care what French or Germany
is doing, at the end they will attack Iraq with the UN or without.
Happy war! ;)
Ahh we are just trying to be polite.
We really and truly dont give a rats bellybutton about what
germany and france are *not* doing.
since you asked....