Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Torquila on July 26, 2000, 01:52:00 PM
-
Who thinks this is BS?
http://www.wwiionline.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004509.html (http://www.wwiionline.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004509.html)
-
Who knows could be he states his grandfather had 76 kills and his name is georg adam of JG7
I found a Georg -Peter-Eder JG51 JG2 Jg 1 Jg26 "Kdo Nowotny" JG7 Total victories 78
10 east front 68 west front 12 with me262
36 of which were 4 engine bombers. awarded Knights Cross with Oak leaves
Now any other of the "Experten" with near 76 total victories names do not come close.
I do not know if he has made an english translation of adam is Eder?
Any one know?
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 07-26-2000).]
-
Originally posted by Torquila:
Who thinks this is BS?
I never heard about a Georg Adam German ace, less in Jg7...
So that part of the story ,IMHO is a troll.
The part about MGs blewing up planes with few impacts has few credibility too, starting from the point that the MGs were of 13mm calibre and with a little round, and not a HE one,AFAIK.
but the part about 20mm cannon rounds having devastating effects against buffs is right. A single 20mm exploding round could do an amazing ammount of damage on a B17...So much that if it was well modelled here then the hispano dweebs aboard the F4Us would whine until the end of history !!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (WAAAAAAAAAAAHHH MY HISPANO IS UNDERMODEELLLEEEEED (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) J/K (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
So, IMHO, that thread is a troll.
-
Baddawg...stats for Georg-Peter Eder
Name: EDER Georg-Peter
Rank: Major
Squadrons: Jg51,Jg2,Jg1,JG26,KdoNow, Jg7 ,EJg2
78 total kills,12kills with Me262, 572 front flights (est)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-26-2000).]
-
Ram from what source is your info? i list the most kills by Me262 as 16 by Heinz Baer
Luftwaffe Fighter Aces by Mike Spick
-
The bad 'English' almost sounds forced-intentional. Could be for real, I doubt it. But the real laugh is that he wants the sim/game to be built so that it passes his grandfathers litmus test. If it doesn't I'm sure he'll cry that the FM, cannon or damage done with the FW are all wrong..... Yet another anti-Luftwaffe conspiracy company!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
-
Must be a typo from the page where I took the info, when I looked it again I also jumped surprised...I took a look in other pages and into a Me262 book I have and they list him as having 12 kills in Me262...wich is quite impressive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I took the info from this link (its in a spanish page so I use to look there for German ace references,but still it has the info listed in english,its worth a look)... http://cipres.cec.uchile.cl/~bebustos/aces.html (http://cipres.cec.uchile.cl/~bebustos/aces.html)
Take a look at it, it has a complete list of aces and in wich books can you find references about them...
and here is a photo of Georg-Peter Eder...the guy killed 78 confirmed...but 40 probable!!!!!!...
(http://home.pacbell.net/horrido1/pics/a26.jpg)
(photo taken from http://home.pacbell.net/horrido1/posts.htm (http://home.pacbell.net/horrido1/posts.htm) ,take a look is a pretty impressive link)
Plus from 78 kills, 36 were 4-engined bombers...
Please note that in this photo has oak leaves for his Knight's Cross...and OSSI said his Opa had the Ritterkreutz (Knight's Cross)...no Oak leaves reference...
So my guess is that this Eder is not the "Georg Adam" he says...if he ever exists.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-26-2000).]
-
If my grand daddy was a nazi, I sure as hell wouldnt be braggin about it.
-
Originally posted by easymo:
If my grand daddy was a nazi, I sure as hell wouldnt be braggin about it.
Its surprising to see how many closed minded people are around here.
easymo, I dont know anything about Eder's political beliefs...but for sure I know he downed 78 planes, 36 of them were heavy bombers.
He also had 40 probable kills, that in German kill counts, that needed CERTAIN proofs of a kill to award it. So this guy, if his country had counted kills as british RAF or USAAF, would've had 118 kills.
If you are so closed minded that you cant admire a guy's skills over his personal beliefs, then you dont deserve this speech from me.
And again I dont know a s$$t about Eder's political thinking.
-
My granddaddy was in WWII.
But that doesn't mean he was a Democrat just because FDR was. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Wab
-
I talk about my grandpa all the time he was American.He has every right to talk about his Grandpa too. I agree with Ram though i don't know his political stand point so i won't comment anymore. But those kills are impressive great pilot.
-
I wonder how you might feel if one of those 76 kills had been YOUR granddaddy.
As an ex soldier my views are very simple. If another nation sanctions the killing of even one American serviceman. I say we raze the whole dam country. And salt the land before we leave.
We pay our draftdogers to handle the political stuff.
-
Originally posted by easymo:
I wonder how you might feel if one of those 76 kills had been YOUR granddaddy.
Oh ok then what do you suggest? all Germany hating France, Britain ,Russia and US because their granddads died at their hands?
Oh well...
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-26-2000).]
-
Georg-Peter Eder died 11.3.1986 in Wiesbaden.
Aint our man.
danish
PS: get lost easymo
-
>I wonder how you might feel if one of those
>76 kills had been YOUR granddaddy.
Hehe.
I wonder how I would have felt if my grandaddy had been a civilian burned to death in Dresen?
I wonder how I would have felt if my grandaddy had been a Japanese merchantman who drowned after being torpedoed by a U.S.N. Submarine without warning contrary to the 1927 London Naval Treaty which the U.S. signed.
or for that matter...
I wonder how I would have felt if my grandaddy had been a Negro brought to this country in chains and condemed to a life of slavery.
I wonder how I would have felt if my grandaddy had been butchered at Wounded Knee.
I've served my country in the military as well. I consider my self a Patriot. However I have enough education and historical perspective to realize that no race or country has a monopoly on good or evil.
I also realize that in a time of war I would prolly serve if called upon irregardless of my personal reservations concerning what ever civilian party was in power simply because my people and country asked. Maybe this guy did the same. Then agian maybe he was a flaming, rabid Nazi. I dunno.
I got no problem gut shooting him in combat as my duty. I just don't feel the need to pass moral judgment on him when I have know idea of the content of his character.
...was every serviceman who fought when his country asked in Southeast Asia a murderer because of what happened at My Lai?
<shrug>
I also think its possible to study and admire an individuals skill and ability in the military arts completely seperate from its political context. Simply as a student of military history.
<shrug>
Your milage may vary...
Wab
-
AKWabbit...<S!>
-
I make no moral objection. Every large nation on earth, at some time in history, has engaged in some form of slavery. The larger ones have destroyed lesser cultures, and peoples, as a matter of course.
IMHO. posting pictures, and stats, of one of the LOSERS. Is both inflamatory, and stupid.
-
>IMHO. posting pictures, and stats, of one
>of the LOSERS. Is both inflamatory, and
>stupid.
Although I find your opinion poorly reasoned, you are of course welcome to it.
As students of military history we are only supposed to study the careers of those who fought on our own side? Only those who were on the winning side?
You don't think the careers and stats and tactics of men like Guderian and Rommel are studied and discussed in U.S. military academies? You don’t think the careers, stats and tactics of pilots like Hartmann, Galland and others aren’t discussed?
Inflammatory? I think you better learn to relax. We are going to be discussing the careers and stats of pilots on both sides of the conflict on this bbs. You’re in for a lot of stress if that bothers you so.
And posting the picture only puts a human face on the stats which I always find interesting. Its not as easy to demonize someone that if you took them out of the uniform might pass for a co-worker or a neighbor down the street. Maybe that’s what you found inflammatory.
Regards,
Wab
-
"IMHO. posting pictures, and stats, of one of the LOSERS. Is both inflamatory, and stupid"
"As an ex soldier my views are very simple.If another nation sanctions the killing of even one American serviceman. I say we raze the whole dam country. And salt the land before we leave"
Methinks its you who has a serious brain inflamation from a stupidity overload.
Just read what you have said!. Raze an entire country just because one life was lost? Yeah that makes sense, kill millions of innocents just because they live on the "crime scene". Just WHAT kind of soldier were you? How sickening.
Read Akwabbit's post again, dictionary in hand if you need it.
*deeply disturbed by such nazi-like attitude*
-
I will admit that most of what I post is done "tounge in cheek" What the hell, its just a game. And as such. Hard to take in any serious way. But I did have a reaction to holding this clown up as an object of admiration.
Suppose the goals he fought for had been achived. Would you want you children liveing in a world like that.
-
With you 100% Easymo. Yep, just like Viet Nam vets deserved to be reviled and spit upon because they fought in a losing war. We all know the soldiers there fought that war because they were totally committed to the cause. That's what soldiers do.
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
Pyro. suppose the goals we fought for had been achived? A free and democratic South Viet Nam.
-
Wasn't Eder's Fw 190 known as "lucky 13" by USAAF bomber crews? Wonder why...
-
>Pyro. suppose the goals we fought for had
>been achived? A free and democratic South
>Viet Nam.
Hehehe I doubt that. That was the most corrupt and decadent goverment since the state of Louisiana. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Wab
-
Wab. A goal is something you strive for. Not something that exists.
And BTW. Pyro. Comparing Viet Nam vets to nazi soldiers is nothing new. I got use to that when you were still in short pants.
-
Here is an interesting piece of trivia
Georg Peter Eder is supposedly the pilot that kept filling Robert S Johnsons P47 fulla Mg because his cannons were jammed and ultimately let Johnson fly away
http://www.thehistorynet.com/MilitaryHistory/articles/0896_text.htm (http://www.thehistorynet.com/MilitaryHistory/articles/0896_text.htm)
"As Johnson tried to fly home, he caught the attention of Major Georg-Peter Eder, another Fw-190A pilot who had just recently transferred to II/JG.26. Eder's 20mm cannons were jammed, but he followed Johnson halfway across the Channel, riddling the American's plane with 7.62mm bullets until he finally ran out of ammunition. Eder then brought his Fw-190 alongside the crippled ship (close enough for Johnson to note that his adversary's eyes were brown), shook his head in disbelief that it was still in the air, then rocked his wings in salute and peeled off for home."
-
Wars, and the reasons people go there are never simplistic.
My grandfather was beheaded by the Japanese at Sandakan ... two weeks AFTER the war.
Thousands of British and Australian POW's died at Sandakan, and yet the British government still won't acknowledge what happened there.
Also, apparently 'Operation Kingfisher' was designed to free the prisoners, but MacArthur wouldn't sanction the use of allied resources in the region.
So ... who should I hate?
The Japanese? The U.S. Forces? or the Australian and British governments who turned a blind eye?
Does that mean I should also hate the people of those countries? I'm an Australian, and I've met both in the flesh and in cyber-space, people whom I admire and LIKE from all the above countries.
I feel deep sorrow for what has happened, and hope that we as human beings can communicate and learn to respect each other.
We can show this respect even now. We know nothing much about the German guy, but his record sounds impressive.
Being closed minded, and exhibiting the attitude that 'right or wrong, my country', allows small atrocities to become larger ones.
A small atrocity IMO is the attitude that easymo exhibits re: "...if a single U.S. serviceman ... we should raise the country" and when ignored eventually escalates ... a very sad and scary thing.
We all have been guilty in the past of being small minded.
I hope my children grow up in a world where successful communication is put on a premium,
and the world realises that resources of the planet is finite, and needs to be shared fairly.
This is not happening yet ... but one day, it just might.
Cheers
Yosus.
------------------
'One day, flight simulation will be so realistic, that you'll need to wear brown corduroy'
Phoenix Squadron.
-
And BTW. Pyro. Comparing Viet Nam vets to nazi soldiers is nothing new. I got use to that when you were still in short pants.
When you have to resort to using age as an argument for why you are correct... you aren't.
Give it up Easymo... if you were just joking then fine - the joke is over and you can let it go. If you are serious.. then you need to seek profesional help.
To indicate that the soldier is responsible for the action of his government shows that you know absolutely nothing about being a soldier(don't really care how much experience you cite... you've shown you didn't learn anything). If you know the actions of this specific individual belayed anything but a sense of honor.. then feel free to share that with us. If you assume he is a criminal because he was the enemy 60 years ago then you are petty at best and ignorant at worst.
AKDejaVu
2 Grandfathers in WWII - both wounded
Hold no grudge against any soldier that served in WW2 just because he served.
-
Originally posted by easymo:
And BTW. Pyro. Comparing Viet Nam vets to nazi soldiers is nothing new. I got use to that when you were still in short pants.
I know that. That's why I trolled your troll. Ironic, ain't it?
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
One last post on this.
The right to free speech is one of the most valued, by the American people. And, ironicly, I would be willing to go to war to defend your right to post this nazi,s photo. But I ask that you consider how you might feel had I posted photo,s taken in the german death camps. My reaction to people oowing and awwwing, over this guy, is exactly the same. And im exercising my right of free speech.To point out that this is BS.
-
hear is a bit from that article that Baddawg gave out
. Adolf Galland, who was a very good friend of mine and who I had known since 1949, flew the Me-262 and loved it, but he still swore by the 109, although it was still easier to shoot down.
Here Johnson says he was friend with Adolf Galland. Im a mistakin or was Adolf a German pilot...I had uncles that fought in WWII on the ground. And I am proud that that served there country. If i was a German, i would have the same respect for my German Uncles. May not see there veiws but be proud that at the time of war thay gave there life for there country. This post was not glamerizing what views the Germans had nor saying that what thay did was good. Just looking at history and learning from People that where in that realy awefull war.
------------------
VMF-212 Lancers
-
Excellent point easymo.
My opinion is that you are an idiot, and that folks like you cause wars like that.
But, that's simply my opinion, and both subject to change and nothing to shoot someone over.
So now that we've expressed our opinions, a question for the amature and not-amature historians here; would we really have any clear clue as to whether or not this Georg Adam exists? I see several vectors for confusion. His name could be recorded differently in the records. His records could have been corrupted or lost in the latter stages of the war. The kill-claim may not be official (or corrupted by a grandson who isn't precise with numbers). We may be looking at the wrong records or relying too much on secondary sources.
I work as a QA/Test manager, and see many many situations where requirements going from one cube to the next get corrupted in transmission. The process varies, is totally unpreventable, and is in the end part of why I have a job. So I have little trust for numbers or records. They are usually wrong. People pigeon-hole, skimp and generally take the easy way out (even Germans. <g> ).
I'm also a historian with a specific interest in Byzantine history. Ever try to get 'real' info on the Battle of Jabiya-Yarmuk? If you did, the first thing you'd learn is that the Romano-Byzantines called the Yarmuk river the 'Hieromyax'. Thus, to them, the Battle of Hieromyax. It gets vague from there. Lots of info on both side. Disagreeing. Or using terms that mean different things. Are copies of a copy. Both sides are dead. etc.
WWII history (which I've also studied) suffers from a wealth of 'information'. The problem is that 98% of what you (the normal Barns&Noble historian, or even the person who went to school for it) read is secondary sources; that is, one guy read the original docs an made a translation or statement. The 2% that is the original docs is still subject to all of the vagaries that make it likely that the post office does not really know where you live.
You gotta start somewhere, but really folks, before you assume that someone who claims to have been there (1st or 3rd hand) is full of crap, try to keep in mind that the people keeping the records that survived at all were not much better about it than you are at work. Except they were getting bombed.
Thog
-
Originally posted by Thog:
You gotta start somewhere, but really folks, before you assume that someone who claims to have been there (1st or 3rd hand) is full of crap, try to keep in mind that the people keeping the records that survived at all were not much better about it than you are at work. Except they were getting bombed.
Thog
Thog, while I agree with you...more or less...remember this facts:
German aces on WWII is a WELL documented info, MORE if the ace pilot survived the war. If OSSI's grandpa survived the war and told him he had 76 kills how come he doesnt appear in any list?...
I dont believe in missing documents, German Ace list is a well documented thing...so I cant simply admit someone with 76 kills dissapears from those lists.
There is a lot of things that make me doubt about OSSI's post. Not only there is no Georg Adam anywhere (and if OSSI is german, raised in germany, its quite sure to assume that his Opa conserved his GERMAN name, not an adaptation to English), but the post itself ,as Westy says, seems redacted in an "forced bad" english...
Apart of that is the fact that he quotes 13mm MGs as assasin weapons...and AFAIK they were simple AP rounds...the lighter and smaller on their calibre in aerial gunnery.
And for last when he was asked for more info on his Opa he simply said again "Georg Eder, JG7, 76Kills". nothing more. He well could've extended in some explanations, but he said nothing.
IMO that is a troll post, and there is enuf data to think it is a troll.
P.S.:Easymo, even XIII century men had better morale than you. And you call WWII german aces nazis?...
look at the mirror,maybe you'll feel a desire to break it...there is a nazi there.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-27-2000).]
-
Anyone notice that those who weren't involved, seem to harbor the most hate?
Yet those who actually fought can shake hands with their old enemy.
I come from a military family and one thing I can tell you for sure, we respect all soldiers from all countries that do their duty with honor. We are not politicians, we serve our country to which we were born.
-
OOOPS double post!
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-27-2000).]
-
Oh, BTW...
Originally posted by easymo:
Pyro. suppose the goals we fought for had been achived? A free and democratic South Viet Nam.
and
Wab. A goal is something you strive for. Not something that exists
Yeah, Easymo...just as in Chile with General Pinochet, a guy supported by USA, a man who commited crimes against the humanity (judged by them or not).
Or maybe putting General Noriega in Panama?...because that was done with US assistance...
Maybe the Nicaraguan Contra sounds in your ears as something known?
If I dont recall bad, General Batista (dictator in Cuba in 1958, if you dont know it)was liked in USA, the fact he was a dictator not a democratic president mattered quite few, isnt it???
And what about Bahia de Cochinos? hundreds of cubans launched in a disastrous operation to a certain death, or to Castro's prisons and captivity. They were losers, so why should we worry about them?...better to forget about those poor losers isnt it?...and the fact they were launched and trained by US to be killed or captured doesnt matter either, of course.
And excuse me, had US won Vietnam War, south Vietnam government would have ruled like the Communist party did, on all vietnam. NO democracy here, but a NAZI (N-A-Z-I)dictatorship regime...supported by US forces.
So, let me guess...if everyone on this world shares your opinion on hating nazi regimes or hating losing forces:
Chile people must hate US.
Panama people must hate US.
Nicaragua people must hate US.
Vietnamese people must hate US.
Cuban people must hate US.
Not to talk about Uruguay and Argentina dictatorships supported by CIA...
Open your eyes ,easymo. You have them tight closed.
-
I know Ossi is from the eastern part of germany. So it would be normal he has big problems with english because they learned russian as the 2nd language in school and not english like we in our western part.
Can't say more about him.
Easymo, your postings are showing very clear what an short minded political idiot you are.
You may want to contact -bobn- over there in Warbirds. Seems you both are brothers in mind (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Lem
-
OSSI just put this link on WWIIOL board:
http://www.stormbirds.com/werknummer/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&WerkNummer=&Model=&Factory=&Date=&Unit=JG+7&Pilot=georg+adam&Factory_Code=&Unit_Code=&Callsign=&References=& keyword=&sb=---&so=ascend&mh=25&view_records=Search
Seems the link is too long to fit into UBB code...to access it simply copy and paste it...the URL works fine.(of course it is the part between http:// and (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) not incliding them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
That link lists a Me262 lost when piloted by Georg Adam...the callsign of the plane was "Red 13"...is that the "lucky 13"?
All this is VERY strage...I dont want to put BS on OSSI's word and I am VERY interested...but still if Major Eder died in 1986...how come he CAN test WWIIOL???
Dunno...really I dont believe that Georg-Peter Eder is that "Georg Adam"...but that links and the "red 13" callsign...
weird
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-27-2000).]
-
This thread has gotten way outa hand. It started off about a pilot in WWII who was still alive and able to tell some facts about his flying experience and was quickly turn into a BS political arena!!!!!
I have great admiration for pilots from both Axis & Allied sides who at 18 to 20 years of age had to jump into the cockpit of an aircraft for the sole purpose of taking another plane outa the sky. This was not there choice but the choice of there respective Goverments. I am pretty damn sure that they would have rather been out gettin drunk & doing what most of us had done as teenagers.
The fact that there are still a few pilots still around to relate stories & other Aircraft info facinates me to no end.
You guys have managed to take this small fact and turn it into a political argument.
I am very dissapointed in the lot of you!
Dog out.........
-
Wardog, you're right ... to a point (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Peope are political creatures, no one can change that, and when someone makes a comment that is coloured by extreme prejudice, we should speak up against it ... if that is our belief.
However, I too am fascinated by the deeds of men and women in conflict ... which ironically happens when the talking and the politiking stop (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
I think people learn from each other, and that happens even on this BBS. It is through talking through these issues that eventually some form of tolerance might come to light.
In my view, this is as important as finding out the details pertaining to Georg Peter Eder.
Respectfully
Yosus
------------------
'One day, flight simulation will be so realistic, that you'll need to wear brown corduroy'
Phoenix Squadron.
-
Oh and Btw folks .. ADAM is a common german name.. so why whould someone called EDER (another common name) change that to ADAM or vice versa ..
DW6
-
Gentlemen,
Maybe his grandfather exagerated? Proud men with strong egos are prone to exageration. I'm not saying this is the case, but the old man may have done just that to build himself up in the eyes of his grandchild. To OSSI , he is a hero and this is what the old man wanted. Just a posability.
Vati
-
OSSI just sent me some pics of his Granddad..
Damnit fer sure he had a RitterKreutz!!
I dont know what to say...a Knights's Cross in the neck of a pilot means he is an ace...but I dont see him in any list!...
I am starting to believe him,tho. This, fer sure is no troll.
The photos are up in the WWIIol forum
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-27-2000).]
-
So every German who wore feldgrau is a Nazi? hmm remind me to relate that fact to my Opa when I get where he went,pretty sure it was up.
Just a few easily dismissed facts FYI,
Nazi meant National Socialist Party a politcal organization much like democrats,republicans,Labour,Etc,etc,ad nausem
One could be a serving member of the German military without joining the Nazi party
My Opa was a 50 something reservist NCO who fought in the first world war, who was recalled to active duty in '43
I am in the Inactive Ready Reserve of the United States Army, while I think that Bill Clinton is without a doubt the lowest form of life since protozoa, if recalled to duty today, I would in fact, go.
Why? it's simple Duty,Honor,Country
They use different words in different militaries around the world and through time, but it all boils down to the old,"Here lies a soldier of Rome, who did his duty,Honor him"
If anyone had accused my Opa of being a nazi, I'm pretty sure the lovable old guy would have strangled them to death on the spot.
If you cannot see that soldiers do as soldiers do, then you are beyond hope, totally lost to the stupid notions of ignorance and intolerence, a shinig example of the nation we have become,not the one we once were.
There will always be a wall, time will tell if there are any left with the courage to stand upon it.
------------------
pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
-
Hmmm still think there is something fishy about this.
A Georg Adam is presented as having 76 confirmed kills, and the Knights Cross.Pictures are shown with KC + Oakleaves, and apparently younger with KC.
Still he is not listed in "Die Ritterkreutztraeger der Luftwaffe 1939-1945" - the standart bible.Plus as apex points out he is not on the very thourough "Fighter Pilot 'Ace' List".
In short: no.
danish
-
easymo,
since you know about Georg Adam so much,
there are more of those you call it "Loosers" out there.
Try this link: http://www.411.playnet.com/brownstigler.html (http://www.411.playnet.com/brownstigler.html)
Gh0stFT
-
Maybe, danish...
BUt I cant believe that someone send those photos to be posted only because a troll...
anyway, yes I am,too,surprised that no Georg Adam is listed in the Knight cross receivers nor in the Aces lists...
Dunno...
Gh0stFT...wonderful link and story...
Hope we all here learn the lesson from this "brothers".
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 07-27-2000).]