Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on February 09, 2003, 12:22:59 PM

Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Vulcan on February 09, 2003, 12:22:59 PM: "Blix said the Iraqis had handed over documents on "specific, high-profile unresolved issues" including anthrax, the chemical agent VX, and missiles. He said U.N. experts in New York would examine the documents Monday and Tuesday. "

Why weren't these documents in previous disclosures. If the Russians and French veto now then the UN is a sham and the French/Russians are playing buttboys for Saddam.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: krazyhorse on February 09, 2003, 12:54:26 PM: hmm could be Frances reason for no war, be they might be key suppliers???:eek:
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: bounder on February 09, 2003, 01:26:54 PM: Has anyone heard of the 'Self Righteous Brothers' - a brilliant skit by Harry Enfield.

I am reminded of them a lot on this BBS, sat in the Pub fuming about something that hasn't happened at all, but declaring oh so woeful consequences if it ever were to.

Best Harry Enfield Voice:

"OI! France! No! Much I respect your contribution to culture, philosophy and science, not to mention cuisine and fashion, pulling out your veto like that and flopping on the table is WELL OUT OF ORDER! Take it back right NOW or I'll give you a SMACK! "
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: StSanta on February 09, 2003, 01:31:11 PM: Heh, the Iraqis had turned over everything they said.

The fact that they have more documents to turn over now is proof enough of their tricks.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Maverick on February 09, 2003, 02:04:41 PM: Anyone who thinks saddumb is going to turn over everything is extrememly naive. Why should he start now??? He's going to take this all the way to the end game in hopes of, or purchase of, a veto in the UN. If the U.S. is constrained by that veto then he wins. He gets to stay in power and keep on with what he is doing.

I would imahgine that he is very carefully watching the Arab responses to this whole situation. As long as they oppose any actions against him it amounts to a tacit support of his regime. If he can curry additional favor and influence he is closer to achieving the goal of being the single most important Arab figure in that part of the world. If he can unify the Arab or Muslim world behind him he becomes the defacto leader of that faction and gains additional power and "face". At that point he will have accomplished a tacit control of the majority of the worlds petroleum supplies and thereby the worlds economy.

There won't be any part of the globe he can't affect at that point. This lil dirt ball is too interconnected ecomically for any nation to escape impact. it really IS a small world after all.....
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Hangtime on February 09, 2003, 03:07:35 PM: oh, gee, thanks mav..

now 'its a small world after all' is stuck in my brain again.

rat bastard.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Udie on February 09, 2003, 03:43:08 PM: This has been his M.O. for the past 12 years. Why should it change now when it's worked for that long. Don't give an inch until you have to then only give a 1/2 inch. Rince and repeat....
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Vulcan on February 09, 2003, 04:05:11 PM: Yup absolutely true Udie.

However Iraq was required to provide a detailed document to the UN of its disarmament and WMD programmes.

Iraq stated this document was the be all and end of all of its WMD data. Iraq itself drew a line in the sand and said this is where we're at. Now they want to redraw that line.

I think this is the first time such an official document from Iraq has been contradicted by its own statements within a month.

I found the evidence presented by Powell to the UN a bit lacking in depth. IMHO the US should be leaping all over this, as I believe these new statements point to Iraq lying and therefore breeching the UN resolution which required them to make that original statement filed last month.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Ripsnort on February 10, 2003, 07:38:11 AM: Guys, it doesn't matter what Saddumb turns over at this point. The US is going in with or without UN approval. "The game is over".
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Eagler on February 10, 2003, 08:13:54 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Guys, it doesn't matter what Saddumb turns over at this point. The US is going in with or without UN approval. "The game is over".

and we will be the "bad guy"
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 10, 2003, 08:30:55 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
and we will be the "bad guy"

You expected something different?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Ripsnort on February 10, 2003, 08:34:41 AM: In any human social structure, the guy at the top of the ladder is always deemed the bad guy, regardless of what "good" he does for you.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: lazs2 on February 10, 2003, 08:45:53 AM: Of course he won't turn over "everything"... that's why we made it the condition to avoiding war..

Who care anyhow? so long as unleaded premium stays under 2 bucks a gallon.
lazs
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Ripsnort on February 10, 2003, 08:58:16 AM: Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Of course he won't turn over "everything"... that's why we made it the condition to avoiding war..

Who care anyhow? so long as unleaded premium stays under 2 bucks a gallon.
lazs

I saw it for $1.82 this week-end...:eek:
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 09:01:20 AM: Gas prices going up fast. $2 a gallon may be just around the corner.

It sure looks like an invasion of Iraq is imminent. The question I have is what happens if Sadaam succesfully flees and hides? If we can't/don't find him, how long will we have to maintain a large force there to prevent his return and retaking power? Or, will the Iraqi people be so glad to be out from under his thumb, as purported, that there's no way he can come back?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Siaf__csf on February 10, 2003, 09:06:39 AM: OOh teh horror!

Euro's have been paying $4+ / gallon for years.. $2 is dirt cheap. Maybe that would be a good place to gain up the budget deficit.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Eagler on February 10, 2003, 09:09:57 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
I saw it for $1.82 this week-end...:eek:

same here ... unheard of in these parts
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Ripsnort on February 10, 2003, 09:13:34 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
OOh teh horror!

Euro's have been paying $4+ / gallon for years.. $2 is dirt cheap.

Only because of your rediculous tax structure that your forefathers allowed.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Dowding on February 10, 2003, 09:15:02 AM: Quote
The question I have is what happens if Sadaam succesfully flees and hides?

Then he's probably gone to spend some time with Bin Laden, because the US et al couldn't find him either.

Then again, they'd hate each other's guts, so I doubt it.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 09:15:37 AM: The US government operated in the red for decades, means little. Don't worry yourself about it.

Of course gas is cheaper for us in the US since we produce most of our own.

Comparing consumer prices is really apples and oranges since our economies are not the same. For example; by how much is health care subsidized by the average European government?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 09:18:46 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Then he's probably gone to spend some time with Bin Laden, because the US et al couldn't find him either.

Then again, they'd hate each other's guts, so I doubt it.

We haven't stopped looking either but we may not find him as long as he stays in a hole. Then again, he is neutralized as long as he's in that hole.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Dowding on February 10, 2003, 09:25:24 AM: To date Bin Laden hasn't committed any terrorism directly - he gets people to do it for him. I should think he still does that from whichever cave he inhabits.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 09:31:33 AM: Dowding, what terrorism has OBL inflicted on the US since 9/11?

I never suggested he strapped bombs to his own body.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Dowding on February 10, 2003, 09:42:28 AM: Bali bombing (I know that wasn't on US soil, but a lot of foreigners were killed), anthrax attacks, the shoe-bomber freak passed through European safe-houses. There's been plenty of arrests across Europe (well over 150 I think), so who knows how many 'missions' were foiled.

If he can send a tape to a TV station post-Bali, I'm sure he can communicate with his followers.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 10:15:04 AM: I think you're really reaching there Dowding, you give him too much credit.

Back on topic, committees rarely acomplish anything. Time for the US and anyone esle willing to do what must be done. The rest should just stay out of the way.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Dowding on February 10, 2003, 10:29:02 AM: At the expense of the NATO alliance? Is that really a wise thing to do?

It seems to me that when two parties sacrifice something worthwhile at the altar of their own individual causes, both parties should carry the blame for the consequences.

NATO is the bastion of Western democracy. Without it, the world becomes a much dangerous place. Saddam Hussein does not justify its destruction, which ever side of the fence you reside.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 10:43:32 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
At the expense of the NATO alliance? Is that really a wise thing to do?

It seems to me that when two parties sacrifice something worthwhile at the altar of their own individual causes, both parties should carry the blame for the consequences.

NATO is the bastion of Western democracy. Without it, the world becomes a much dangerous place. Saddam Hussein does not justify its destruction, which ever side of the fence you reside.

NATO was developed to counter the growing Soviet/Communist threat, as I'm sure you know. Perhaps NATO has outlived it's purpose if not usefulness.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Ripsnort on February 10, 2003, 10:46:22 AM: Maybe it can find usefulness in countering the Extremist Muslim Fundamentalist threat?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 10, 2003, 10:52:59 AM: Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Maybe it can find usefulness in countering the Extremist Muslim Fundamentalist threat?

Not in this day and age. Soviets were "evil." Muslims are just "misunderstood."
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: lord dolf vader on February 10, 2003, 10:55:19 AM: Maybe it can find usefulness in countering the Extremist conservative Christian Fundamentalist threat?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: AKIron on February 10, 2003, 11:00:37 AM: Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
Maybe it can find usefulness in countering the Extremist conservative Christian Fundamentalist threat?

Yeah, those damn suicide Christian bombers, bombing all those buses and nightclubs. Wait, maybe it's just the baby killing factories they bomb?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Dowding on February 10, 2003, 11:48:52 AM: Quote
Soviets were "evil." Muslims are just "misunderstood."

It must be terrible not to live in a black and white world.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: StSanta on February 10, 2003, 12:38:51 PM: Iron, shooting doctors isn't particularly nice.

Nor is torturing people believed to be witches.
Or killing thy neighbor in the Balkans.
Or crusading.
Or blowing up thy fellow Christians in Northern Ireland.

Just saying - every religion has its nutters, Christianity included.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Siaf__csf on February 10, 2003, 12:52:01 PM: Quote
Only because of your rediculous tax structure that your forefathers allowed.

Lol Ripsnort if you can call 15 years forefathers.

Just 10 years ago the gas was 50% cheaper. Then the enviromental taxes came. You know, the stuff your governement doesn't take part in to save enviroment.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 10, 2003, 12:58:19 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
It must be terrible not to live in a black and white world.

Unbearable. I curse the day that people other than those I agree with came forth with opinions.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: ccvi on February 10, 2003, 01:12:59 PM: Quote
Originally posted by StSanta
Iron, shooting doctors isn't particularly nice.

Nor is torturing people believed to be witches.
Or killing thy neighbor in the Balkans.
Or crusading.
Or blowing up thy fellow Christians in Northern Ireland.

Just saying - every religion has its nutters, Christianity included.

Getting a big crusade going and driving both jews and muslems out of jerusalem might create some peace in that region. At least, they would stop hitting eachother for a while.

And as many US troops are already in that region, it could safe lot's of transfere costs if it is done right next to rolling over iraq.
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: krazyhorse on February 10, 2003, 01:16:22 PM: SIAF you also have to realise that the eruopean gallon is also different than the US gallon
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: Ripsnort on February 10, 2003, 01:30:42 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Lol Ripsnort if you can call 15 years forefathers.

Just 10 years ago the gas was 50% cheaper. Then the enviromental taxes came. You know, the stuff your governement doesn't take part in to save enviroment.

http://www.epa.gov/

Ehhh, come again?
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: straffo on February 10, 2003, 02:41:11 PM: Quote
Originally posted by krazyhorse
SIAF you also have to realise that the eruopean gallon is also different than the US gallon

well ... We call that "liter" :p
Title: Finally the proof we've been waiting for
Post by: ccvi on February 10, 2003, 03:38:12 PM: That "liter" gallon is just more than 1$ (or 1 Euro) here ;)