Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GtoRA2 on February 12, 2003, 01:59:55 PM
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Ok say a terrorist group sets of a dirty bomb or releases nerve gas, in a U.S. City, it kills 50,000 Americans.
50,000 Americans.
What then, does all the squabbling in the UN stop, will all the "its all about oil or a U.S. conspiracy" people wake up? Do all the countries in the world, that do not support terrorism stop and think they could be next?
When is the world going to realize this is more then a minor threat, and that terrorists need to be hunted and killed, like the dogs they are.
We need to be utterly ruthless and kill them all, to make terrorism so a bad choice people do not do it anymore...
Will it happen? Thoughts?
It is just a mater of time before they killl more..
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They will say, "It's sad, but America brought it on herself. Maybe if you weren't so arrogant these peace-loving Muslims wouldn't have been driven to such desperate acts".
Do you even have to ask?
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ok for those of you who haven't been paying attention we can go through this 1 more time. there have been no proven ties between 9/11 and Iraq. most if not all of the terrorists were citizens of our allies in the gulf. attacking Iraq to stop attacks like 9/11 is a lot like burning down the house of the guy liveing to the left of you because the guy living to the right is making your life hell.
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Unfortunatley, they will kill more. They will have attacks that succeed.
Let me pose a question.
Here it is, 2006 and we're in American Utopia. We have NO dependance on foreign oil, and we do not bother with anything or anyone else in the world, aside from our one true ally, the UK.
Would there still be terrorists trying to strike at us?
You bet your sweet bellybutton there would. Bin Laden said it himself, the attacks will be conducted unless the US adopts Islam as its national faith, and repays the arab world for all the oil we've stolen over the years.
Does he really believe this would ever happen? No one is this insane. So there's nothing we can do to stop terrorism except to hunt them down at every corner. Destroy them, and the regimes that harbor and arm them, and never let them have a moments peace.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
ok for those of you who haven't been paying attention we can go through this 1 more time. there have been no proven ties between 9/11 and Iraq. most if not all of the terrorists were citizens of our allies in the gulf. attacking Iraq to stop attacks like 9/11 is a lot like burning down the house of the guy liveing to the left of you because the guy living to the right is making your life hell.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Hussein regime has been paying $25,000 rewards to the families of sucessful homicide bombers in Israel. He's sponsoring terrorism. Israel is an ally. It's no different than if the suicide bomber struck London.
The man sponsors global terrorism. No one can prove he had a hand in 9/11, but I doubt anyone would be surprised if he did.
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I've said it before..
Americans are not war-mongers. We're slow to rile, and in fact internationaly it would seem that it's great sport to kidnap americans, rape our women, lie to us, steal from us, default loan after loan.. we do nothing.
Bomb us.. 'sneak attack' us by any means.. we get pissed.
Time after time, we've had to get up from the table and go deal with the jokers and dick smokers that think 'hey.. america is weak.."
It just ain't a good idea to piss us off.
Since Sept 11th, we've been pissed. Slowly, inexolerably we've been gettin our ducks in rows, slowly burning with anger, waiting...
We've watched the developments in Europe with intrest. We're discovering who our freiends are.. who's really intrested in eliminating terror, who's being obstructionist, who's supplying whom with what.
If we get slapped with a chemical, biological or dirty nuclear attack we will no doubt leave large glowing craters where we feel the blame belongs.
"Overwhelming retaliation" are the words Washington has used.
I believe those words..
I support them.
I hope they get 'em all.
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What makes you think that the U.N. gives two toejams about the U.S.?
France and Germany will probably draft a short resolution and send us the bill. That's about as much help as I'd expect out of them.
Originally posted by GtoRA2
50,000 Americans.
What then, does all the squabbling in the UN stop
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Forget IRAQ!! Forget about all the BS politics right now.
Change it to an English, German, or French city. Or even maybe a Russian city.
Make it 5 cities, one in each place, when will the civilized world realize terrorism is a real threat to everyone and forget about the BS politics behind this all and take a unified action..
DO NOT MENTION OR THINK ABOUT IRAQ, My question has nothing to do with it or current politics!
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Hopefully, those 50,000 americans will include the UN General assembly which sits where?
1st Ave and 29th Street, NEW YORK CITY USA, My hometown.
Kick 'em the diddly out. They've become a dog with no teeth. Let them set up shop in Somalia.
Hang said it best:
"Overwhelming retaliation".
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1st Ave and 29th Street, NEW YORK CITY USA, My hometown.
And I'm 47 miles downwind.
Kick 'em the diddly out. They've become a dog with no teeth. Let them set up shop in Somalia.
Amen, brother.
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Originally posted by ra
They will say, "It's sad, but America brought it on herself. Maybe if you weren't so arrogant these peace-loving Muslims wouldn't have been driven to such desperate acts".
Do you even have to ask?
SHACK!(thks funked)
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something to think about.....
imagine its august 11, 2001. A month before 9/11 we find information about the impending attack. America mobilizes and attacks Afghanistan to thwart the attack. Imagine the outrage the world community would have if that would have happened. The world would be screaming that there was no proof and only weak connections.
Now America is acting and the world is screaming.....hmmm.
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Exactly what Dnil & RA have said - that would be the worlds hand wringing response ...
Exactly what Hangtime stated - would be ours.........with this admin anyway.
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Whats our responce when it is not us? What if a Nuke goes off in london?
Doe we say "damn sorry guys, it's your own fault" Or do we step up to the plate and say ok, now they Pay and eridicate terrorism?
This is not just a threat to us, all the western nations should be VERY worried about this.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Forget IRAQ!! Forget about all the BS politics right now.
Change it to an English, German, or French city. Or even maybe a Russian city.
Make it 5 cities, one in each place, when will the civilized world realize terrorism is a real threat to everyone and forget about the BS politics behind this all and take a unified action..
DO NOT MENTION OR THINK ABOUT IRAQ, My question has nothing to do with it or current politics!
if you think EVERYONE would jump on the bandwagon, even after 5 cities are gone, you are sadly mistaken ...
if that happened, you wouldn't have to worry long because ww3 would be right around the block as someone tried to take advantage of the situation .. ie NK or CHina to name two..
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You think so Eagler?
You think there is no hope of the world seeing terrorism for what it is and standing against it?
Doesn't that just make you want to shake your head in despair? The U.S. cant stop it alone.
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The U.S. cant stop it alone.
Yes we can.
It'd be pretty messy.
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Part of the solution to this problem is to create an alternate energy source that replaces oil. Without oil, the SNs would be left with nothing but sand and camels.
:cool:
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Imagine that this happens and then imagine that those say something like this and then imagine that this group react like that and then imagine blah blah blah...Wouldn't it be a shame?????!!!
Geeez guys, some of you need an ice cold shower...
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Geeez guys, some of you need an ice cold shower...
Wow.. yer right. Question... are those REAL showers, or the gas kind?
Another Question.. your government, a NATO signatory, has now twice elected to not support military action against Saddam.
How do you feel personally?
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A 'dirty bomb' would probably kill about 20 people...maybe 50. Dirty bombs are high on 'terror' but low on lethality.
Nerve gas...depends on what type and how and where it's released. But 50,000 is a very high #. Remember - some was released on a Tokyo subway - in a subway car - surprisingly few fatalities.
I'm not commenting on 'what would happen' per your post here...just saying '50,000' would require a nuclear fission weapon or some really, really nasty bio weapon and even then the CDC is very alert for bio type weapons and is getting 'more alert' (with regards to spotting transmission vectors) on a weekly basis. There's alot of smart doctors at the CDC.
Mike/wulfie
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God help them if they bombed anywhere in GB.
Now if they bombed France, that would be a different story entirely.
I'm fairly certain that many countries feel the same about the U.S.
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Whats our responce when it is not us? What if a Nuke goes off in london?
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Ok say a terrorist group sets of a dirty bomb or releases nerve gas, in a U.S. City, it kills 50,000 Americans.
50,000 Americans.
What then, does all the squabbling in the UN stop, will all the "its all about oil or a U.S. conspiracy" people wake up? Do all the countries in the world, that do not support terrorism stop and think they could be next?
When is the world going to realize this is more then a minor threat, and that terrorists need to be hunted and killed, like the dogs they are.
We need to be utterly ruthless and kill them all, to make terrorism so a bad choice people do not do it anymore...
Will it happen? Thoughts?
It is just a mater of time before they killl more..
The trouble with the "kill them all" way of going about it is it will ensure much more fanatical terrorists wanting to eliminate more Americans. I believe the possibility is very strong that we'll suffer tremendous losses in future terrorist attacks against Americans because we'll be creating those very terrorists.
The questions we should be asking and answering are these:
1) What have we done, are doing, will do that cause those to hate us so much to sacrifice their own lives in order to try to kill us? (Check our own history)
2) What can we do to prevent that very fanatical mindset?
Prevention is the best policy. BTW if you truly think that they hate us because of jealousy of our freedoms and way of life then you've lost the war.
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The next major attack will most likley be in Europe somewhere. There are many more cells of the bad guys within Europe, look how many they have caught in the past few months.
What will happen when it happens in Paris or Munich?
They will run to us for help, and we will help them because thats what we do.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Ok say a terrorist group sets of a dirty bomb or releases nerve gas, in a U.S. City, it kills 50,000 Americans.
50,000 Americans.
What then, does all the squabbling in the UN stop, will all the "its all about oil or a U.S. conspiracy" people wake up? Do all the countries in the world, that do not support terrorism stop and think they could be next?
When is the world going to realize this is more then a minor threat, and that terrorists need to be hunted and killed, like the dogs they are.
We need to be utterly ruthless and kill them all, to make terrorism so a bad choice people do not do it anymore...
Will it happen? Thoughts?
It is just a mater of time before they killl more..
OK - this isn't about Iraq, this sin;t about politics per se, we're talking about the next terrorist atrocity.
Ever hear of 'trickle down'. Well it works in the world of mass destructive weapons. Once only US had atomic weapons, then russia, china france UK (Security council). Now india, pakistan, NK, israel, and others.
So basically, as we spend billions of quid developing new and more sophisticated strategic weapons, we can pretty much guarantee that within 50-60 years every hothead fanatic will have access to them too.
It will happen if there are enough people with grudges (however misplaced) against Europe and the West from whom the most violent and thoughtless can be recruited for yet more unspeakable acts of terror.
Terrorism is as old as humanity, it's the means that change.
As the IRA said to Margaret Thatcher after the Brighton Bombing...
"We only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky always."
What happens after? Well it all depends on whether it is evenpossible to ascertain who did 'it'. And even then, leaving glowing holes in the earth all over, say, the middle east, won't bring it to an end, merely intensify the fanaticism of the perpetrators, wherever they may be hiding.
Intelligence is one part of the equation. Good intelligence is the best weapon of all, sometimes it can avoid you ever having to fire a shot.
But to try and lessen the chances of it happening, we need to seriously rethink our attitude to the rest of the world that lies outside the Euro/Anglophone western democratic block.
We haven't always been unpopular and hated enough to inspire terrorism, but our actions in various places have done much to foster an environment where terrorism can prosper.
And until we deal with causes, the symptoms won't go away. They just become more acute.
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what will we do?
Lets see I'd warn everyone, if I remember my U.S. army hand signals, hands over eyes indicate atomic detonation. This way everyone will know to run, duck and cover.
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1. Find out who's responsible.
2. Show evidence to UN.
3. Listen to the French wail.
4. Go do what we gotta do.
Bounder.. nice piece. I enjoyed that. I suspect you and I will both agree that untill we pop the pimple on the mideasts bellybutton (israel) ain't anybody here or over there gonna be sitting real comfortably in crowded places.
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Well said Bounder.
I think there should be 'overwhelming' attention thrown at the Israel situation. Get the bastards on both sides around a table with a gun to their heads and tell them we're going nuke the entire region, including Israel and the Palestinians, unless they agree to a compromise settlement involving a *genuine* Palestinian State and an Arab recognised Israel.
Oh, and find the nearest cliff and push both Shraon and Arafat off it.
But of course, all of this is fantasy. It will never happen. And the Israeli Troubles will continue to be an advertisement for anti-Western extremists.
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The entire thread was worth reading for the last posts
Bounder, Hangtime, Dowding.
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it isn’t about Israel
it isn’t about the US and her policies
it is about "HATE" .. the current level of man's enlightenment & spiritual consciousness..
as long as man can find hate in his heart, he'll find an excuse/reason to express it and a target to aim it at...
some ppl are only "HAPPY" when they "HATE"
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Originally posted by bounder
But to try and lessen the chances of it happening, we need to seriously rethink our attitude to the rest of the world that lies outside the Euro/Anglophone western democratic block.
Well, I disagree. I think the problem lies more outside the Euro/US western democratic block.
Take a look at the Taliban and their schools. Take a look at what the Palestinians are teaching their kids right now. Or the Saudis, or teh Libyans, or the Iranians...
As long as these idiots keep teaching hate and martyrdom to their kids, there will be new terrorists. To shift the blame for this onto us in the west or in Israel is just as wrong as shifting the blame to a rape victim because she was wearing sexy clothes. It solves the wrong problem.
Our way of life will always be a threat to a moslem fundamentalist, simply because moslem kids want to play with Barbies or listen to Britney Spears too. We threaten their way of life without us even realizing it.
The problem is not US foreign policy or Israel foreign policy, that is just a convenient catalyst for the extremists "look at the bad Israelis, doing this or that to the Palestinians" while in fact the rest of the arab would could not care less about the plight of the Palestinians...as long as they stay outside their own borders. Or "look at the bad Americans supporting the bad Israelis" we must hate them/kill them now now now.
The problem lays deeper than that. It is our way of life that scares the moslem fundamentalists, and it is the fact that our way of life attracts young soon-to-be-moslem fundamentalists.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Well said Bounder.
I think there should be 'overwhelming' attention thrown at the Israel situation. Get the bastards on both sides around a table with a gun to their heads and tell them we're going nuke the entire region, including Israel and the Palestinians, unless they agree to a compromise settlement involving a *genuine* Palestinian State and an Arab recognised Israel.
Oh, and find the nearest cliff and push both Shraon and Arafat off it.
But of course, all of this is fantasy. It will never happen. And the Israeli Troubles will continue to be an advertisement for anti-Western extremists.
Dowding, Bin Laden never even mentioned the Palestinians until after 9-11. YES, that problem needs fixing, but to tie all Islamic terrorist to that problem is just plain wrong.
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I'm sorry but you're wrong, Krusher. The main issue with most fundamentalist Muslim's is the Israel situation, and specifically continued American backing for that State. It's the reason they quote most often and it's the biggest grievance.
Rightly or wrongly, the whole region is a mile-high neon sign with "Look at this American-backed aggression killing women and children of Islam" emblazoned on it lurid scarlet writing. The fundamentalist nutcases go crazy over it, and the moderate muslims also see it as a great injustice. Consequently, moderate opinion hardens, and recruitment for groups like Hamas and, more globally, Al Queda increases.
While Sharon keeps telling the Palestinians "We will take your land, your water and your livelihoods", the Palestinians will respond with suicide attacks, supported by a despicable Palestinian authority. In turn, while the suicide attacks continue, Sharon gains more support for his strong-arm tactics, turning more Palestinians into martyrs for the 'cause'. There never will be a resolution until this cycle is broken. The huge blood letting will never come to a conclusion, and as time passes it becomes more ingrained into the pyche of both protagonists.
The last suggestion for a Palestinian State was a joke. It didn't address water rights (a big sticking point), it still restricted movement within the State itself between Israeli controlled zones. The continued expansion of Israeli settlements into Palestinian inhabited land just cannot continue if any peaceful resolution is to be sought.
I don't hold much hope, to be honest.
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LOL
I think he is right, we need to address the Israel, Palestine problem.
I think hortland is somewhat right also, but in a smaller way, once the big problem of Israel is gone, the whole barby and culture problem will seem small and ridicules.
I do not think western culture needs to change, that is like blaming a raped girl for her clothes, but we really should try and clean up our back yard.
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We need to move the french over to what is now israel and move the people from what is now israel over to where france is.
Then we can let the middle east be in peace.
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Originally posted by Kanth
We need to move the french over to what is now israel and move the people from what is now israel over to where france is.
Then we can let the middle east be in peace.
BRILLIANT!!!
ROFL :D
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Let's play out a few scenarios.
If the US was hit by WMDs delivered by a terrorist, I suspect beside retaiatory strikes with WMDs, we'd see people of Middle Eastern origin being denied access to the US and those already there either put under surveillance or interned. There'll be much wailing.
In the end though, the vast majority of Americans aren't Muslims and are very interested in keeping on living. If there are no people of Middle Eastern descent on American street, it'd be easy to spot the terrorist who's illegally there.
Anyway, US nukes some place. Or many places, since terrorists aren't tied to nations exclusively. New terrorists are born from the loss of loved ones to horrible radiation wounds. More bombs go off. Western world gets tougher.
Economy starts to stumble. Large areas in the US become cotaminated by dirty bombs. Economy stagnate totally.
Former relatively wealthy western people experience food shortages. It grows increasingly worse, as agriculture is hit hard by the financially bad times.
Soon, people will kill each other for food.
Mad Max IX, coming to a cinema near you :D
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Hangtime that was beautiful! I agree 100%
Originally posted by Hangtime
I've said it before..
Americans are not war-mongers. We're slow to rile, and in fact internationaly it would seem that it's great sport to kidnap americans, rape our women, lie to us, steal from us, default loan after loan.. we do nothing.
Bomb us.. 'sneak attack' us by any means.. we get pissed.
Time after time, we've had to get up from the table and go deal with the jokers and dick smokers that think 'hey.. america is weak.."
It just ain't a good idea to piss us off.
Since Sept 11th, we've been pissed. Slowly, inexolerably we've been gettin our ducks in rows, slowly burning with anger, waiting...
We've watched the developments in Europe with intrest. We're discovering who our freiends are.. who's really intrested in eliminating terror, who's being obstructionist, who's supplying whom with what.
If we get slapped with a chemical, biological or dirty nuclear attack we will no doubt leave large glowing craters where we feel the blame belongs.
"Overwhelming retaliation" are the words Washington has used.
I believe those words..
I support them.
I hope they get 'em all.
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Originally posted by Krusher
Dowding, Bin Laden never even mentioned the Palestinians until after 9-11. YES, that problem needs fixing, but to tie all Islamic terrorist to that problem is just plain wrong.
Sorry to disagree but here's a link to an interview with Bin Laden (May '98)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html)