Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Voss on October 06, 2001, 02:45:00 AM
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I think the latest version has porked the game to the FUBAR level.
HTC has never said a word about the easier then hell method of fleet elimination. Suicide dweebs have ruined the fleet.
Now we have towns at every field. WAY to easy to capture stuff. Worse, you can take off with nothing but a goon overhead, and die in your own ack. The field is up 100%, but you're dead! Too GAMEY HT!
In a game where cooperation is SO hard to come by, cooperation amongst countrymen is even more important now. The only way to get that is with massive numbers, from what I can tell. It ain't gonna happen.
I could probably get used to it. I might even stick around. BUT, I would like to hear what plans HTC has for this game. If it's staying like it is... I don't know. It seems to me HTC supports the fight and die concept. I will never enter a flight sim with that attitude.
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I think its a good update, but in a way, I feel a gamey ness too it all also :confused:
Idunno what to really say.
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Yesterday we went for a city strike. It was a joke. I realized I was destroying big buildings with just the Mosquito's 4x7mm :)
Something has still to be fixed, I guess.
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I don't think they porked the game. I think they changed the stratagy that we all called for. You have to remember that we've been useing the same strat since 1.03. Now it won't be so easy to sneak bases or to Jabo everything with one F4U-C. I say if it get us thinking and working together again, then good for you HTC. However, some of the choices for art are questionable.
BTW i think the houses and buildings in the town are just mostly for show.
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Originally posted by FDisk:
However, some of the choices for art are questionable.
I'm curious - what do you mean by this?
Also, perhaps the "fight and die/suicide is acceptable" mindset could be changed if we got a much higher Perk reward for returning to base alive? Long way to go to get to 200 perks!
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I think the ack in the cities and the city buildings should be made tougher. The buildings can be taken out with a few shots of .50 cal mg
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"questionable art" meaning bad art... I didn't like the trees.
I don't know if those building in the city do anything...
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I think the field capture we have now is better than the old one since now the carbombing and last minute spawn banzai fighters to strafe goons routine is gone.
It is much easier to capture fields now though, but you folks have to bear in mind that goons have to parachute the troops, as landing between the trees is very hazardous.
I SUGGEST the current system would be better if:
Towns affected the rebuild time of the base they are next to (just as cities affect global rebuild time). Cities would affect the rebuild time of the towns.
Put a VH and a map room inside the town.
Make towns twice as big (town size would increase depending on size of airfield).
Put a map room on the opposite side of the airfield (opposite to where the town is that is). Protect that map room with .50 cal acks and 2 mannable 37mm's. Put the Airfield VH be INSIDE the airfield, on the opposite side of where the town is. That way it will protect the airfield map room.
This way, the enemy will have to capture a field AND the town. If they capture the town then the enemy field its next to WONT rebuild unless its resupplied by players in goons or m3's. If the enemy captures the field but you still hold the town, you will be able to prevent that field from rebuilding as long as you hold the town, AND your VH inside the town will allow your side to counterattack using GV's. This, by the way, introduces the much lacking ground war into AH
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tac, that sounds like a very good idea.
constuctively looking to improve a situation might be a better move then being critical.
although i've noticed that the new strat system just accelerates what happened before. now you have more 'back and forth' action and i think it's more high paced.
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Dang Voss? Give em a break, HTC been slaving over this version for months, and you basically calling all their hard work toejam?
And bad art? imo the artwork in this game is excellent, when I first started playing I was like WOW? Holy toejame, WOW at the art, clouds etc. I still have the occasional WOW too
New version of any software will have probs, bugs, things that need to be changed and I'm sure they will be (cept the N1K). Been 1 day only, relax.
:p
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Yeah,give em a chance,itll all be sorted out,to me,what we have now is a lotta fun,its only been out a couple of days,give em a break!! :)
(http://www.501squadron.co.uk/501recruit4.jpg)
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Don'tr understand what voss was sayong about UFOs and goons and troops and stuff - but seems a good release. AH is fun - but lets keep those stupid jets under control huh? Been down that 262 trail of woe in AW, WB and now lets see how AH handles it.
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something that DEFINETELY has to go is this crap with the AI ack having high caliber guns.
With the current system, ALL acks come up on the whoopee field the instant a train or sneak m3 resupplies it. That bullcrap. Have people on vulch duty only to have the gv slip NEAR the field (not IN it) , we cant see it since the icons are hidden and all the sudden WHAM all the acks are up and all those attacking that field fall like flies in 10 seconds.
GET RID of the singlepingkill ack. Replace it with .50's and let the PLAYER man the 37mm's. AI is the WORST possible thing ANY game can trust with powerful weapons. It only creates dependency on the AI. Hell, last night a Ta152 was RUNNING from my mossie, he ran STRAIGHT to his ack, without even trying to fight. He passed d4.0 to the right of SIX of his friends (with 8k alt adv) and didnt even fly to them to get help (and he was outrunning me, something he easily could have done).
Instead he went straight to the only GUARANTEED thing that would save his ass. The AI. And sure enough, the thing shooting at me through hangars and through the hill, had to break off, the 152 grew some balls then and came after me, out-sciscored it and he went STRAIGHT to his ack AGAIN.
I can understand RUNNING if the pilot can't handle a fight, but running to AI is simply NOT acceptable. For that matter I could as well be playing EVERQUEST. Its moronic to have people depending on AI for anything, it makes an MP game screws the very REASON for playing an multi-PLAYER game.
HT please do something about this.
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My hat's off to HTC...finest WWII Combat flightsim going. Great support too. :)
Thorns
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Hey, it was late when I posted that, and I had just returned from the heat of 10:1's for hours at a time (not to mention Creamo's B.S.). Relax.
What I meant was:
The capture system has me confused. There seems to be an imbalance in game play with regards to captures. Once the ack is down it is nearly impossible to DEFEND the field, because once the field is capped you can't launch without geting vulched and GV's can't make it to the town in time.
Mindanao seems like a very weird place to have roads, towns, cities, railroads and more depots then you can count. It's not WWII anymore for crying out load! The WWII aspect of this game is gone, except for the presence of period aircraft and vehicles.
The instant rebuild of the ack used to be nice, upon accomplishing a capture. What I don't like now is how you can launch and then die instantly upon a successful capture by the opposition. Why defend? You can't make it to the town and if ack pops up you die.
So, the only recourse is to hunt. I can handle that, but the entire reward system of this game implies team cooperation. You will only get that when you have superior numbers.
I am more then willing to wait for HTC to get things adjusted. What I am saying is that the current system does not seem to be optimum, somehow.
AND the suicidal dweebs on the fleet issue need to be considered. I thought it might be wise to allow the fleet controller to prohibit early launches, thus preventing any premature attackers from giving the fleet's presence away. Then, I remembered (was reminded) how Booky likes to CHEAT and come over to reclaim the Rook fleet by radioing its position. Perhaps, there is a solution to that as well. I don't know. I know THAT upsets me too.
I have come to use the fleets a lot myself. Recently, I have taken the fleets over many times to prevent dweebs from driving them willy-nilly about the map on useless missions. As of 1.08 I can no longer use more then a single fleet at a time. However, I look on the ship control menu and there's the same guy controlling two fleets simultaneously. Is this a bug? Then, tonight, whilst attempting to defend one fleet, I find the rear gunner position occupied when I need it the most. It's not firing. I turn the fleet, so as to make use of the front AAA. The attacker not only does not release his eggs (sees me turning I suppose), but leaves the sector entirely. I leave too. When I see he returns, I go back to the fleet. All AAA positions are occupied. No one is firing. I turn the ship. The attacker leaves the sector. This time I stay. The attacker returns, guns never fire, I turn the ship, and it sinks anyway. New tactic? I don't know...
I have enjoyed the new aircraft. The Hurricane seems to be a great addition. I love seeing those Mossie's beatin' it down low! But, something has taken the fun away. It's a challenge, it's great fun at times... I just don't know, yet, what to suggest...
I disagree with TAC though, I think the power of the ack is better. Preventing those resupplies is an issue to deal with. I just wish defending had an up side (some potential to defending anyway).
Finally,
Great release HTC! Man what a job! (applause) :)
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]
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You want to keep the AI killing you with 1 ping?
Wouldnt it be better to have 3 times the amount of ack guns in a field, but have them fire a single .50 MG? Anyone getting near such a concentration of lead will be in serious trouble, not guaranteed death. Have a field be defended with 12 osties and 10 m16's , see how your chances are astronomically increased at NOT getting killed 95% of times you make a pass. Why? Its NOT AI.
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its just too accurate. i can't do attack runs in a 38. one of the best attack plane is useless because of deadly accurate ack and totally friggin porked dmg model. i weave and single pings get a wing or engine, i dive at 450knots and bam, single ping does my wing/engine, i stay up and pass over and bam, single ping dos my wing/engine.. it's totally ridiculous. i lost a wing in a mossie(another 1 pinger) in a steep curved dive. wtf??
you guys ever tried to swing a mounted hvy machine gun at a moving target?? there are several factors in this action. tracking a moving target(a hummvee with a sled, for instance) alone takes 1000's upon 1000's of round to get right. and thats at 25 mph.. this doesn't even take into consideration your lead trajectory. a mounted 50 cal on a fast action support frigate, deadstop, will not be able to track an enemy fighter doing 300 mph on the deck. its not possible. at 1000 yards up, yeah.. but not low and weaving. the fact is, a person would spend more time fighting the weapon, just to try to get a trajectory at all, than he would focusing on a good lead for a shot.
you got ack that hits with deadly accuracy, targets moving hundreds of miles an hour!!! cmon--this is so unrealistic its pathetic.
i've been there and done it. BM knittle, fast action group, support--LST 1193, small boat squadron, little creek, virginia.
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I think 1.08 is a pretty good version.the new planes are great.The idea of the maproom in the city with 3 extra acks is a good idea and should have made the field harder to take but for some reason doesn't.
Bombing the nme ordinance at fields are a problem.If you take ammo barracks fuel down,they come back up in a couple of minutes with resupply which makes strat bombing useless.
I looked for specific targets at the depot and could not find any so I guess you have to flatten the depot to put it out of business.
So it seems like the role of strat bombing has been diminished to a point of why bother except for hangers and such.Unless I am missing something and if I am, feel free to give me a clue.
ET
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Whirl, From an eight-thousand foot start I can nail the ack three out-of-four times with rockets. From a fourteen-thousand foot start above the target I can egg acks with a level bomber, or dive bomb them without taking a hit. Any one of the American fighters is capable of this.
Your concept of diving into the acks is brave, but stupid. I liken it to the concept of suicidal CV killers. Quit doing it or get used to dying. Weakening the acks to a point where a fighter can wade in and gun the acks, vultch, and kill assets (all in one pass) would make the ack useless to the point of the ridiculous. Set up your attack wisely and you will survive.
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Originally posted by Voss:
Then, tonight, whilst attempting to defend one fleet, I find the rear gunner position occupied when I need it the most. It's not firing. I turn the fleet, so as to make use of the front AAA. The attacker not only does not release his eggs (sees me turning I suppose), but leaves the sector entirely. I leave too. When I see he returns, I go back to the fleet. All AAA positions are occupied. No one is firing. I turn the ship. The attacker leaves the sector. This time I stay. The attacker returns, guns never fire, I turn the ship, and it sinks anyway. New tactic? I don't know...
I don't think I understand you Voss. On one hand, you are saying that this new version requires a lot of teamwork, but then you say finding it is near impossible.
Now you are suggesting that enough of the enemy are giving up 12 hours of time just to sit in CV guns to prevent you from defending it while yet another takes the time to fly a bomber to it and sink it?
It sounds ridiculous to me. But if there is that kind of teamwork, maybe you should find out who those guys are and join up.
Midnight - CO
412th FS Home Page
(http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj/GIFs/Squadsig.gif)
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Whirl check out this page: http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/stories.htm (http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/stories.htm)
2/10 Tempests survive one pass on an airfield at 450kias. Now do you really think your lone 38 is gonna do better?
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I agree with you Voss on the feel of the game at the moment, seems kinda uncoordinated and less compact if you know what I mean. IMO it was more fun when the focus of the capture was field oriented, at the moment field defense and attack are secondary to the capture and in many cases can be bypassed entirely. Another thing which I find strange and may possibly be a bug is the ability to spawn an m3 30 seconds from a city with all ack up and still make the capture. The city ack does not fire at gv's, at least they didn't today when I made the capture.
I love the tree, new planes, railways n convoys, but I don't like the new capture system. The old one was great and i hope HTC decide to reimplement it with citys providing a secondery objective only.
Another thing which I think definitly needs to change is the perk points for rail and convoy. I killed 2 mossies and an ME262 in a hurricane the other day, died and got 2.0 perk points. While others take a mossie to an undefended sector and strafe trains and get 40-60 perks per sortie on totally vulnerable targets with no risk to themselves. I won't do this because I feel it reduces the effectiveness of the perk system, but I know a lot of others are doing it and might explain the large numbers of perk planes flying around these days.
Regards to super uber star wars ack, it sucks
chow :D
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Voss, Vulcan, your both right... and i'm not wrong. i understand your concepts.
understand mine-- target solution from a mounted hvy machine gun on a pivot, in the "fog of war," is damn near impossible. i could understand if their we're 50 HMG's all firing into the sky, but 4 or 5 always landing a critical hit??
i'm talking development, your talking gameplay tact. yes Voss, but it is quite fun to swoop from 10k and roll into a base;^/
Vulcan, 6 aaab's vs 40(the only real number listed i could find in article) is a major friggin difference. 6 could barely fill the sky with the lead to stop dive bombers. 40 on the other hand.. all 20's and 37's too.. that didn't even include the 88's or the .50's being fired--heh. you need to get a better article for argument then this.
oh btw--i don't vulch--i at least letem get airborne and get a little bit o' E;^/
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: whirl ]
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just to balance my whine about 38 fm and ack accuracy: i've been flyin online for 7 years and offline longer. this is the best game, ever, for combat simulation vs. real opponents.
i'm continually astounded by the detailed environment and will base my computer upgrades on this environment. the flight models by far are better than 95% of the existing games around-there is much care in their research and development.
the variety of craft surpases any game playable to date. ground vehicles, air vehicles and water surface vehicles included.
the price, well after a month, i can say i'd pay more to enjoy it.
the community has developed well. i'm not sure if this is from the influx of airwarriors, but never-the-less, it's a good place to call "home."
i'm not a technician(as in, naming every plane from every production year since flights inception.) nor can i tell you every acm or advanced acm listed. i've probably used 'em though.
i may even be an bellybutton alot.. it's really just the "ace" mentality-- my 38 will beat any other plane in flight, H2H. period. that doesn't mean i don't like the people. i just like to win. if i'm wrong, i'll admit it. i'll tell a person good fight; if they beat me H2H.
i enjoy the pilot banter and consider "squelching" a cowardly act(especially if ya announce it on the open channel i.e. squelching "so and so".)
i try not to whine much on the country or open channel-- sometimes it just comes out before i can check myself. for every whine i've ever let pass my lips, there's been 10 i haven't. so you guys and gals, well, you can accept my apology in advance or not.
i will gladly invest in higher grade computer components when i can no longer fly and enjoy the "environment" with my present equipment.
i see the direction HT's heading here and applaud him for it.
<S> all, Cmdr.Nomad(3rd-ew)
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: whirl ]
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I agree with Tac on the idea of makeing the town and base separate. After all thats what I thought they were doing in first place. This is way too easy to capture fields, but I think it should be easy to capture the town. Just make them sepatarate, and use the town to supply the base, and city/depot to supply towns.
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Whirl whats 40/10? IE the number of flaks/attackers. Thats 4:1. Less than the AH 6:1. Read it weep sonny... find some better maths for your argument :D
Plus those were Tempests doing 470kias!!!
Second, what was that dude that manned the guns in Pearl Harbour (real and movie). How many a/c did he shoot down? Wasn't he a cook untrained on Mg's let alone Mg's into a/c?
I actually find most 37mm human gunners more lethal in AH than the AI guys. I've also completely de-acked a field in a tiffie, 3 passes, 1 up, 1 back, 1 for VH ack.
So, for my argument I have historical evidence supporting flak accuracy, I also have evidence that the ack in AH can be evaded.
Pay up!
Originally posted by whirl:
Vulcan, 6 aaab's vs 40(the only real number listed i could find in article) is a major friggin difference. 6 could barely fill the sky with the lead to stop dive bombers. 40 on the other hand.. all 20's and 37's too.. that didn't even include the 88's or the .50's being fired--heh. you need to get a better article for argument then this.
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: whirl ]
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IMHO this new strat model is a considerable improvement in terms of game philosophy.
Placing more emphasis on logistics and their delivery to towns which support fields provides a far more varied yet IMHO realistic approach to the role of aircraft in a war environment.
I am sure there are yet more changes required to bring the MA into better balance.
I am also sure that HTC have many "in hand"
Some suggestions I might wish for......
1)Towns are too easy to destroy (heavier duty buildings please to make it harder to straffe the ack)
2)Towns should have local vehicle spawn points accessed from the field VH.
3)2 goons (20 troops) required to capture a town (force some team work)and its field.
4)Regen (town and field)is entirely subject to resupply by convoy or player supply drops. (No auto regen) (meaning if you take a field with out a secure supply route it does not regen at all unless you supply it your self)
5)Once we have launchable heavy buffs please fix the bombing model (via serious bomb drift and sighting inaccuracies) so they have to carpet bomb (at medium to higher alts)instead of picking off individual targets with pin point accuracy.
6)add more strat stuff (bridges, marine convoys etc)
Tilt
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Originally posted by ET:
I think 1.08 is a pretty good version.the new planes are great.The idea of the maproom in the city with 3 extra acks is a good idea and should have made the field harder to take but for some reason doesn't.
Bombing the nme ordinance at fields are a problem.If you take ammo barracks fuel down,they come back up in a couple of minutes with resupply which makes strat bombing useless.
I looked for specific targets at the depot and could not find any so I guess you have to flatten the depot to put it out of business.
So it seems like the role of strat bombing has been diminished to a point of why bother except for hangers and such.Unless I am missing something and if I am, feel free to give me a clue.
ET
Everything is in TEAMWORK. It was this way before 1.08 came and its even more important now. When you are taking fields then there are 2 ways.
1. Sneak and grab - this is fast and easy and with 1.08 its a child's play because you have only 3 acks to kill and you are GO for drop. But sneaks are only possible when the other side does not pay attention to what is going on. So if they do not care they should lose the field.
2. The hard and more complex way - you need a group of ORGANISED and COOPERATING people for it. Some of them take out VH and ack on the field. Others take care of town and another few planes go little away from the field patroling for any possible convoys ib for field resupply and looking for enemy C47s trying to sneak cargo to the damaged base. When the enemy is not stupid and manages to cooperate at least at some level then geting the field with the new strat system is more complex and more enjoyable than before (just my opinion)
I agree that since 1.08 is out the gameplay became more 'dynamic' since the fields are changing ownership really fast but I think that the new strat system is not yet finished so I would better wait with comments at least for one or two more patches...
;)
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Originally posted by Voss:
HTC has never said a word about the easier then hell method of fleet elimination. Suicide dweebs have ruined the fleet.
One more thingy! Yes suicide attacks suck and I dont like them. When I go for fleet fishing Im doing it with the idea of coming back as much alive as possible (at least few cells) so I am not one of those who try to dive attack the CV with loaded fighterplanes hoping to be able to drop before that sucking unrealistic 1 ping high caliber AI ack kills them... I just take my B26 climb to 10k and drop on the CV from this relatively safe position... It woks for me almost everytime...
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Good comments, all.
Here's my gripes, go easy on me :)
The ack seems to be incredibly accurate again, and I know my hrricaine got popped while evading through the hills. I suspect it was THRU the hill but since I didnt see the shot coming, I can only suspect. But from other attacks I've made on the cities, using our oragami IL-2, the ack is once again juiced. I can't put my finger on what's wrong, is it too large a caliber, or just too accurate...but the 1 ping deaths are vastly more persitent than ever.
Add to this the ground vehicles are screwed up, the M8 bounces everywhere and if a GV comes near a tree or touches the city, you die. So, the fun with GVs has pretty much ceased for me.
Plus these fluff'n trees. Getting a loaded bomber out of any of these bases is amazingly risky. I wouldn't mind the trees if they 1) Looked real, not like cartoonish 2-d paper cut outs (ala 'southpark' animation) or 2) if they were spaced apart. I mean, check your local airport, if there are trees in the flight path, down they go. I'm told the tree issue is going to be resolved but they still look awful. The Mindaiano terrain is gorgeous, to ruin it with these ugly trees is a real disservice. I'm no Picaso but can't we find something better than oragami~looking things?
Oh and the Pork Points.
Buffs bomb hangars, fields and such and get 1 perk point or so. Some fella in a fighter flies out and about, hammers a train (that doesnt shoot back) and gets gazillions of perks. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
And one further, I don't understand why all of these bugs slipped through. With all of us drooling for 1.08, I'm sure HTC had all kinds of beta testers to draw on. I'm just in awe (head banging on desk) with some of these bugs. No one noticed trees at the end of every runway? No one drove the M8 around and noticed it bounced all over the place? Maybe I'm being fussy since I work for a software firm and know what we go through to develop our product. I'm not going to be rude and suggest how HTC should develop their software, but from a customer stand point, my satisfaction has been effected. While I love the game overall, I really think a lot of these bugs could have been prevented. Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, but I feel better having aired that.
Hopefully Patch 2 resolves a lot of the issues in this thread.
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Im not going to jump in and start hammering on the "new game". im new to AH and i dont really have a right to gripe, ill let you vets do all that.
Besides, its very early in the stages of the release ive been a online gamer for many many years and i know these things come in waves. There will be updates and fixes for all things that need be.
One thing i will say is that i would like to see more "flak" hits and less direct shell hit, the idea of flak wasnt a direct hit but to be hit buy the flak that comes off the shell when it explodes. So far i have taken nothing but sustained hits that blow off large(inportant) portions of my AC.
I can handle some fragments hitting my craft when i fly over, thats realality when raiding a enemy base, but not every shot 100% on the money killing whole fleets of planes on impact.
Make the Flak, FLAK and not a cannon round.
[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]
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vulcan, thats 40 aaa's vs 6 aaa's. 40 would fill the sky with lead. 6 won't. thats cute, take the exception to the rule as an example? heh. i'm not going to argue with you about it then. suffice it to say, 40+ aab's will create quite a net for attack planes to avoid. 6 won't, period.
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We can't put 40aaa's up but a field in Aces should be just as tough a proposition therefore our 6 should shoot like them 40 +)
SKurj
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Originally posted by Midnight:
I don't think I understand you Voss. On one hand, ...
Now you are suggesting that enough of the enemy are giving up 12 hours of time just to sit in CV guns to prevent you from defending it while yet another takes the time to fly a bomber to it and sink it?
I don't know what made you think I said 12 hours, no! Think of it like this; they switched to Bishop just before logging out for the night. By the time they sleep eight hours, pet the dog, play with the wife, and have a good meal, they can log back in and defect home. I think certain operations need to be unavailable to recent defectees... like fleets, tuning private, etc.
At least, last night I was able to keep the fleets on station. I never have understood what makes people zig-zag a fleet all over the map, but it ain't happening on my shift! :D
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Hey, it was late when I posted that, and I had just returned from the heat of 10:1's for hours at a time (not to mention Creamo's B.S.).
Don't start a pissin match with me Toss. You went on for an hour how AH sucked, was FUBAR, 1,08 ruined everything, people were kamakazing your CV, you were going to quit, log out in disgust, and on and on and on. It was so bad it's the first time I EVER heard Mitsu actually make fun of someone, you.
I told you to go log out and cry a river like a popsicle or something similiar because the Green Channel doesn't need all that anti-AH crying.
Carry on.
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Err LePaul, crying cause 1.08 has a few minor bugs, many that you mentioned now have been fixed btw, after all the screaming and crying for HTC to release 1.08 asap is kinda stupid. If you work for a software company then you should realise that with mass distribution on thousands of individual machines running different hardware and software combinations that bugs will pop up which did'nt manifest themselves on your test machines. Just common sense m8.
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Originally posted by Tilt:
[QB]IMHO this new strat model is a considerable improvement in terms of game philosophy.
Placing more emphasis on logistics and their delivery to towns which support fields provides a far more varied yet IMHO realistic approach to the role of aircraft in a war environment.
Tilt:
I tend to agree and, without going into a long argument here, I recall another flight sim which caused it's own demise (IMO) by doing away with the strat system in favor of pleasing the masses. Strat made it interesting, and gave the side with fewer numbers an opportunity to make a dent in the enemies.
The MA now is just one huge gangbang day in and day out. The side which is getting ganged is having no fun, while the gangers (read vuchers) are having a ball.
With strat effects, the side with fewer numbers can use stealth, and provide an atmosphere of uncertainty, even to the sides with 82 plus players..."where and what are they gonna hit next? And how will we get hurt?" A sufficient alternative IMO, to the usual and commonplace gang banging which, to everyone on the side that is getting ganged would offer a way they can do something and compete. Right now they are merely targets for dweebs padding their stats :)
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<sniff, sniff> I smell a squeak.
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MadBirdCZ
Thanks for the comeback.I'm still looking for a role a strat buff can do to help his country.In 1.07 if your country was trying to take a base,you could kill the ord.at nearest nme base and keep them from helping target base.Now when you kill stuff,its back up before you land.
Today I tried killing the ack at a radar factory and some of the buildings.I did.I landed and took a fighter to knock out the rest of it.Ten minute turn around.When I got back to the radar factory,everything,ack included,was back up.The resupply seems to be way overdone and I see the role of bombers diminished in the game as it stands now.
With that and the palm trees which kill GVs like they were made out of paper,I feel the game has more of a slant toward furballing instead of strategy.Don't try to take a M16 out at night with nme in the area.
However I know it will get straightened out in time so I am not complaining but just giving you my point of view on what I think needs work.Thats what this forum is for.
ET
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Originally posted by Voss:
I don't know what made you think I said 12 hours, no! Think of it like this; they switched to Bishop just before logging out for the night. By the time they sleep eight hours, pet the dog, play with the wife, and have a good meal, they can log back in and defect home. I think certain operations need to be unavailable to recent defectees... like fleets, tuning private, etc.
ROFLMAO!
Even so, you are still suggesting that enough players are getting together, jumping sides and manning guns just to stop anyone else from defending the fleet. Even if they were to do it just before they logged off for the night.
LOL.. Now that is true dedication to teamwork and the country's eforts.
Hell.. when I am loggin off, I don't give a rat's bellybutton what happens in the arena, as I know that whatever it is, I won't see it and it will all be different the next time I log in anyway.
The whole theory you are implying is like terrorist tactics. Players willing to waste their virtual lives and time and never see the outcome... :p
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I liked Voss' first post more. Oh no, please don't quit...
:rolleyes:
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I liked it more when he stared into his computer monitor and "sniffed a squeak."
I told him to take off his panties while playing.
It was a bad idea.
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Neither of you interest me, so stop trying to be my squeak.
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Originally posted by Midnight:
ROFLMAO!
The whole theory you are implying is like terrorist tactics. Players willing to waste their virtual lives and time and never see the outcome... :p
Why should that surprise you? I have already stated that one individual (who is usually ranked at the top of you rooks) defected to do the same thing. I never really said that I knew rooks had defected to do this. I merely said I know Booky did this once, and asked you to think of it from a certain perspective. Given, that one man has done this, I recommend something be done to stop it from being repeated.
No one loses a life when the CV goes down, unless they are launching, or a suicidal moron dives into the ack to guarantee a hit. It just takes a few minutes more to take down the CV WITHOUT dying. Finding the CV is the hard part only when someone moves it to another area.
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]
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I dont know what is bad about the new strat system.
Field captures are easier and thats very good. Now u dot need a 10+ people army to take a field from 2-3 defenders.
1st time me and 2 squaddies could take some fields in a few sneak raids. Was big fun.
And now u actually need to defend ur scenes. u now can rely on the AI AA to save the field till a lone suicider decides to up and fight.
But still the 1 man field def is possible.
Ask urchin and lazer. They were together working on 26 with 1 or 2 buffs and a C47 helping em.
When i swooped in with my G10, i got lazer. forced one of the buffs to crash (still wondering how), turned and turned with urchin till i found their C47 and got it.
But that was no suicide def.
I saw that 26 was underpressure when i was on a long way trip behind the nme lines in the G10. I climbed to 10K and headed to 26, constantly scanninf for C47s. When i arrived at the base 26, C47 had yet not arrived. so i kept the guys busy and waited till i could bust the C47
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I just wanted to point something out:
Lots of folks are pointing out that it would be better to have more ack that was less accurate. Think framerate. You CAN'T have more ack. Don't you think HT has thought about that? Of course he has. For framerate reasons we need a relatively small # of AAA guns firing over a field. The only way to balance the small number and still make it tough enough to capture a base is to make the acks we have more accurate and/or more damaging.
It's easy to suggest more acks that are more realistic... but it's not so easy to implement. If it was that easy, you can bet HT would have done it by now.
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$14.95/month.
Let it go.
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Voss, if you don't like AH then why dont you make your own sim?
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Couldn't resist jochen? :rolleyes:
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It seems to me HTC supports the fight and die concept.
<shrugs> So what. All I can think of is what you said to me in the beta forums just a short time ago (regarding external sounds in flight) "It's a game! :rolleyes: "
Westy
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Originally posted by Zygote:
Err LePaul, crying cause 1.08 has a few minor bugs, many that you mentioned now have been fixed btw, after all the screaming and crying for HTC to release 1.08 asap is kinda stupid. If you work for a software company then you should realise that with mass distribution on thousands of individual machines running different hardware and software combinations that bugs will pop up which did'nt manifest themselves on your test machines. Just common sense m8.
I couldn't disagree more, since the bugs that were so rampant effected all configurations....re-read what was mentioned...the trees, 1 ping ack, etc...these things effect all systems, not just some and not the other.
I dunno, I just hold I higher standard in regards to the software we make. We wouldn't release software, no matter how anxious the public was for it, without thorough testing. Its one thing to hurry up and get it out, its another to wait an extra day/week/whatever and make sure there isn't anything blatantly mesed up. 1.08 seems like it was shoved out the door to beat the con.
Overall, its a nice release and I havent installed Patch 2 yet, figured I'd let the servers quiet down a bit before diving in. I just pains me to see such a nice update marred by some really stupid, easy-to-find bugs.
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LePaul, we never "shove" any release out the door. We release a new version when we feel it is ready, and it is definitely not determined by how anxious players get. It was very possible that 1.08 would have not gone out before the con.
We are only human, so for you to expect that a release is to be abosulutely bug free with every new version is ridiculous. Now matter how stable you may believe a software to be, more often than not, it will have a few bugs. Given the enormity and work put into this release, I thinks it's gone rather well. It wouldn't have gone so well without the beta testers <S>. Don't worry, all will be well in the land of AH. ;)
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Wow... Great Thread...
I agree totally with Tac and Whirl...
One shot ack is ridiculous... at least make it where your AC can sustain a couple of hits... I understand the necessity of having a few acks be powerful enough to represent more than the actual number on the field... But C'mon... Fly 2 sectors to a base... one ping and your tail rips off...(yes I fly the P-38) or a wing... One shot gets both engines??? That is extreme...
Tilt is right on the Money !!!
The city buildings are too soft... The more Strats the better... With strong strategic elements, the game provides a platform for all players... The player that doesn't have an Ubber Puter can work at buffing or ground attack... Those that do have the latest state of the art machines can concentrate on H2H air combat... This game is filled with all kinds of people with all kinds of likes and dis-likes... My particular preferences are more in line with what Tilt was saying... I like organized missions with strategic importance... I am going to have to stay with Ground Attack until I can upgrade my system, since the release of 1.08... But I am excited about doing just that... This game is awsome...
The best I have ever played... I have been playing WW2 Flight sims for 6 years now...(Unfortunately I still suk as a fighter joc)
AH is undoubtedly the Best of the Best...
All AH Needs, Are Player Designed and Run Scenarios Then AH will have reached Perfection...
My hats off to HT... keep the strats coming.
BOOT
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
LePaul, we never "shove" any release out the door. We release a new version when we feel it is ready, and it is definitely not determined by how anxious players get. It was very possible that 1.08 would have not gone out before the con.
We are only human, so for you to expect that a release is to be abosulutely bug free with every new version is ridiculous. Now matter how stable you may believe a software to be, more often than not, it will have a few bugs. Given the enormity and work put into this release, I thinks it's gone rather well. It wouldn't have gone so well without the beta testers <S>. Don't worry, all will be well in the land of AH. ;)
Good to hear.
Bugs, like toejam, happen. I was just disappointed at what *seemed* obvious to me. I appreciate your response and hope you understand my opinion(s). Glad things are getting fixed.
Now can you fix Tac's P-38? :)
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Quite frankly I don't understand your opinon LePaul. Thowing stones at other devlopers ( which this insn't your first time) is in bad taist, and Smacks of elitissm.
Your opinion in no way takes into account the different needs of software based on it's industry.
Btw lets take your tree example. We beta tested the clutter. Did you see even one post of trees at the end of the runway beeing a problem?
That was with at least 300 people testing it.
Now if you would wrather us take 6 months to a year for releases, and 1 month to release a bug patch, we could play it your way.
I would wrather continue with the methods we currently use.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech:
Quite frankly I don't understand your opinon LePaul. Thowing stones at other devlopers ( which this insn't your first time) is in bad taist, and Smacks of elitissm.
We're going to disagree a lot, so we can either make this thread really long, so all the cheerleaders can throw their 2 cents in, or we can take it to private email. Its completely up to you.
Call it elistist, bad taste (note the spelling, thank you) or whatever. Every company does things their own way. As a customer of your program/service, I have just as much a right to cry foul at what I feel are incredibly assinine problems. Customers, like it or not, are allowed to complain. You can shrug it off, accept it, or, entertain a discussion on why I feel that way.
You claim elitism, I say bull feathers. Again, we can mud wrestle here or in private email.
Your opinion in no way takes into account the different needs of software based on it's industry.
I think quality testing is essential in any application sold to the public.
Btw lets take your tree example. We beta tested the clutter. Did you see even one post of trees at the end of the runway beeing a problem?
That was with at least 300 people testing it.
Yes, I saw lots of people posting about trees at the end of the runway being a problem. In the General Discussion and Bugs areas. However, you fixed that in patch 2. If I'm so out of line, and you had 300 people claim no problem, why'd you fix it? :) Ah ha, so perhaps it was an overlooked issue?
Now if you would wrather us take 6 months to a year for releases, and 1 month to release a bug patch, we could play it your way.
I would wrather continue with the methods we currently use.
Oh sure, rile up the community will ya. Your development cycle is completely up to you. I enjoy the new updates like all your other customers.
Its the testing before the product hits the public I question. And again, we can ram heads on that in private email, if you are up to it, and/or care to discuss our differing views in a respectful manner.
Again, overall I enjoy the game. There are just some issues, like 1.08s release, I find maddening. If you want, again, we can chat privtely.
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: LePaul ]
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1.08 is a good drastic update, the only thing that does stink in a way, is the fact that an ENTIRE airfield can be taken with less than a third of previous efforts.
Also the Frame rate has gone down noticably, and the graphical advances, from what I have seen implemented (comparitivly speaking of other sims) should not have done anything to bring on such a noticable difference.
PIII 800EB
512meg 133 cas ram
Visiontek Geforce 3 64meg
Abit SA6
1024x768@32
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Ahhhh, come on LePaul. I am a software developer too, and I can say categorically that 3D games are much tougher to debug than any other application around.
The plethora of hardware/software configurations out in the real world make it impossible to thoroughly test any 3D game.
Trying to find a bug almost requires matching the system configuration the bug is reported on.
You can look at code all day long and you might see the bug, then again, you might not. Debugging a 3D game is a bear, as you cannot do it as a full screen dedicated app, it has to be run as a windowed app, which can fix an anomaly that would only show up in full screen mode.
Maybe you know all that, I do not know as I do not pretend to know what you develope. I do know HTC does not knowingly ship thier product with bugs.
Online games are just a bugger to debug. I will say they do fix things in a timely manner, whether they are bugs or adjustments in the game, they do get them done pretty fast.
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You think 3D games are bad, try being a analyst for a CADD/CAM application that designs both commercial and military aircraft! To date, no fewer than 17,000 "bug reports" in this latest version since 1994. :)
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Originally posted by Jochen:
Voss, if you don't like AH...
I obviously LIKE AH, or I wouldn't be here EVERYDAY, nor making suggestions on how to make things even better (IMHO).
You either don't post under your flying handle, or don't fly here at all, so you will be ignored!
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Ignore mode on :D
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Ignore mode Off :D
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I've never used bug free software.
I've never used software that released patches to make the software bug free that actually made the software bug free.
I think some people need to take a reality pill.
-SW
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LePaul, you misunderstood what HT said..... he said with 300 beta testers, they never complained about the trees. After we had a release, it was brought to our attention, so we fixed it...... rather quickly I might add.
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I've never used bug free software.
I've never used software that released patches to make the software bug free that actually made the software bug free.
I think some people need to take a reality pill.
-SW
That's about the most realistic post I've seen on that matter...
I personally think, that even with all the things that are "wrong" with the new version, it's STILL the best sim/game out there, and it makes me as happy as a pimple faced sheep farmer in West Virginia. :p
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Natedog: Great!
I'm all for seeing it tweaked, I'm simply puzzled at the "anomalies" we saw at release. That's all.
Moan n groan all you want, I maintain my opinion some of these "undocumented features" were rather silly.
I'm not expecting perfection, but surely someone rolled a buff during development and whacked a tree or two?
Bah, nevermind, they wouldn't confess anyways :D
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LePaul:
I dunno, I just hold I higher standard in regards to the software we make. We wouldn't release software, no matter how anxious the public was for it, without thorough testing. Its one thing to hurry up and get it out, its another to wait an extra day/week/whatever and make sure there isn't anything blatantly mesed up. 1.08 seems like it was shoved out the door to beat the con.
If this isn't a statement of we are way better than you I don't know what is.
It implies we suck at our jobs. It is an attack and insult to every person at this company. It implies we don't care about our product or company. It is so far overboard that it does require a response.
As for testing, why do you think we did 14 beta versions, it was to take care of the major issuses.
I also seem to rember you in the beta process complaining that we didn't do anything to help you get the beta version to run. You do know that in a beta processes it's not the developers job to get people to be able to run the beta, but wrather the beta testers job to just report what dosn't work? I would assume a long time developer like you would understand this.
btw exatly what type of code and systems do you write or design?
HiTech
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Last time LePaul went off like this I believe he quit in tears...
SKurj
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Wrong (again) Skurj
Well HiTech, call it what you want. I'm not going to turn this thread into a bash and for you to play the victim. Nice try.
As I said, if you wanna have a colorful debate in this matter, drop me an email. I'm not going to defend my position, and the countless cheerleaders that will want to spout their 2 cents here in the public forum since the matter is between you and I.
You're doing all the implying here, and painting me with a broad brush that isn't true.
If you don't wanna chat about it, that's fine. Ain't seen an email from ya yet so I assume you aren't seriously interested in my point of view and merely want to harp on with conjectures, then have at.
What I write, code and develop isn't the point of discussion. The testing process, which is part of what I do at my full time job, was what I was discussing. This isn't "my code is better than yours" kinda stuff. Nice try.
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Originally posted by LePaul:
Well HiTech, call it what you want. I'm not going to turn this thread into a bash
Too late, you already did that.
What software do you make/test? I'm willing to bet I could find bugs in it.
EDIT: And while I'm here, I want to show something to you:
"I couldn't disagree more, since the bugs that were so rampant effected all configurations....re-read what was mentioned...the trees, 1 ping ack, etc...these things effect all systems, not just some and not the other."
I'm not so sure you test software after reading this line. "BUGS" are problems with the software. The Trees, well hell, those worked just fine. I beta tested the version when trees were added. Worked like trees, looked like trees- I believe they were supposed to be trees! 1 Ping ack, well man... you are just on a roll here. There are different kinds of ack at a field. From .50cal to 88mm. There are 20mm and 40mm guns down there on the field- and those are what are doing the 1 ping kills. Now don't tell me a Flakpanzer hasn't taken you out with 1 ping?!?!
Those were the only two things you mentioned, and as I stated they are not bugs. They did what they were supposed to do.
-SW
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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Sorry guys don't want to fan the flames but this struck me as really funny...
Originally posted by LePaul:
Call it elistist, bad taste (note the spelling, thank you) or whatever.
Anyone ever spell elitist with more than one s?
"Pot to kettle, you're black, over."
I don't think any of us can claim to be perfect spellers or typists around here. ;)
P.S. I think 1.08 is great. Just refine the inst-a-death trees, okay? :cool:
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Just when I think you can't be a bigger twit Lepaul, you prove me wrong again.
bowser
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Yawn, whatever. Pig pile on me, it seems.
Put your poms poms in a neat pile before you jump in :D
The point of the thread has been thrown aside. My point was that the bugs we saw with the initial release were pretty much in your face. That's it. All my point is is this: WHy'd that release get out the door like that? <shrug> Instead, its bash me for this and that. Great, whatever. But my thought is with so many folks testing this thing, I find it laughable no one noticed trees sitting on the end of every runway, resets on base captures, etc....that's all!
But rather than respond to that, I'm asked "What do I code" and "Let's see your programming", etc etc. So let's accuse the accuser kinda thing. That's silly. So whatever...I'm sorry I asked the obvious to the disapporval of the blowhards.
If I hated Aces High, I wouldn't be in here or playing every night, much less paying for a friend's subscription since I've told him such great things about the program.
But hey, everyone likes a villian....guess that's me.
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the only thing i hafta say here is that the trees didn't make it into the betas from what I could understand. They were in the 1st release of 1.08.
either way, problem with them is fixed now so it's kinda a moot point.
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Originally posted by LePaul:
But rather than respond to that, I'm asked "What do I code" and "Let's see your programming", etc etc. So let's accuse the accuser kinda thing. That's silly.
LePaul.. you were asked about your software for a very good reason. You tell us your public released program and we will try it out. If we find bugs or problems with it, well, then you have no good reason to squeak at HTC, as your own product may be flawed.
OTOH, if your softwae is perfect, then you can consider yourself a guru of sorts.
Either way, You should really stop calling the Trees bugs. They aren't. I think the trees were randomly placed by software. None showed up where they sholdn't have, like IN the runway. It was an oversight to allow them to be close to the runway, not a bug.
If the AA is bugged, it isn't for 1 ping kills. It is for being able to shoot down fast moving A/C at extreme range yet not be able to hit a slow moving A/C right on top of it. That is a bug.
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yeah so take that lepaul you bastard! <hops on mandatory flame bandwagon>
lol - i would think a bomber guy would be cooing with glee at all the new targets!
what's with the tree problem? maybe if they were spruce or larch? is it a palm thing bd? - come pal, admit it.... it is isn't it....something about the sight of a palm tree just makes you insane huh -
:D :D :D
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I think it's worth mentioning that HTC only has 6 people in the whole company. There is really no way they can bug test their software to the point that it is perfect with so few people available for testing within a reasonable timeframe. I'm sure that the beta eliminated a lot of the bugs, but there were many that would have been impossible to see with the 1.07 engine. I.e reset after field capture - 1.08 would have needed to be out to spot that one. It's also worth mentioning that the trees could be turned off in the betas, and they weren't as tall, so the bomber issue (which has been fixed in short order) doesn't really surprise me.
Yes, there is a FPS hit which IMO might be a bug. (It's not present on my system unless you exceed the altitude at which the clutter disappears and then descend. After that there is a 10 - 20 fps hit. ) I'm waiting to see what the future patches will do. As for the trees they look funny to me too; perhaps if there were a variety of tree shapes it randomly choose from it would look better? Yes the fields are very easy to capture, but judging by the readme this was the opposite of what was intended, so maybe a future patch will make a change in this regard.
My personal opinion on the subject is that in general the initial releases of most new versions of AH have had some bugs. Within a day or two HTC has always made the game at least stable and then in the next couple weeks almost all of the minor bugs and quirks were fixed. I personally find that after the final patch for a version is out that AH is probably the most stable game I've seen. :) Bugs really do go hand in hand with 3d games, but what sets HTC apart is the rapid release of patches to fix issues as quickly as possible.
What it really boils down to is 1.08 is not finished people. Give HTC time to patch it before jumping all over them. :) (I'm not saying that was LePaul's intention, but the connotation of his posts could perhaps be taken as such.)
As for insulting someones spelling skills, that's pretty low IMO. :( Personally I've found as an engineer that as more math knowledge comes in, spelling skills go out just as fast... :D
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I think LePaul is Bill Gates!!!! Watch him HT!!!!
Naw too Pompous <- noote speeling
lol
lool
loooooooooooool
BTW I once wrote a flawless tic tac toe program in TC 2.0. Yeeeerrrsh, incredible aint it.
:D
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LePaul....tsk tsk.
Ya know, one sign of success in business is to have choice in who you do business with and who you do not.
A certain individual at HTC is aware of my opinion regarding unproductive, maliced, ignorant(unaware of the facts) and unnecessary posting on this board.
As I have told him many times before, for those who offer nothing other than Whining and a poor attitude, I would push the button and send you on down the road!
For you to whine about and criticize this effort by HTC while paying only $14.95/month to play this sim, begs the following...
What in the world is wrong with you and how must you react to others you do business with when the cost of goods or services might exceed $14.95?
PUSH THE BUTTON!!!
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Moose, they were in the final beta version.
LePaul, I'm not cheerleading. Of course, if I'm cheerleading- then you are simply whining.
Either way, I pointed out how you were incorrect in your presumptions and am told I'm waving pom-poms. Well, whatever makes you feel better.
Lets see, 2 days later all of your so-called obvious bugs are non-existent.
Oh I see, you couldn't play your half-baked strat game over the weekend and thus you came here looking for sympothy.
-SW
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Fish, I believe one of the new tree types is a Larch. ;) You will see them on the sfma terrain.
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I found the current update to be just fine, and much more bug free than most major software releases in the modern (post Win 95) world of computer gaming. What notable bugs (and oversights) that existed were fixed quickly.
Frame rates? Get used to it here and anywhere else short of online bingo. Or play 2d AW (for a few months more at least) on a P1 system.
Trees? A good start towards the day when we can have an actual "forest" layer.
New Strat? Let's see what happens. The universally old base grab concept (pop the flak, vulch the field and grab a goon) became lame as far as I was concerend when AW moved away from the central neutral bases concept a number of years ago. Hell, find a way to some of the non base capture strat models that have been proposed here and I will cheer. Frankly, has the game really changed all that much in a fundamental level? We'll have to see how the trains and convoys develop.
HTC is at least a company that is actually interested in its product quality as opposed to some of its competitors (and most all game software for that matter). You get the impression that HTC won't pump a load of crap out to try and make a short term buck because some investment group told them to release it or else.
ME262 -- the sky is falling, we're doomed, it sucks, elitist vulchers, blah blah blah... Hey, I kinda like the added excitement of seeing one around and wouldn't mind seeing more perk rides in the MA.
Isn't it time to put these issues aside and start squeaking about the Hurricane roll rate and control response :)
RHA RAH RAH (pom poms waving in the wind)! WTG HTC -- keep it up. Or, just cash out to an EA type company and let the complainers see how bad it can get.
Charon
[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
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If the AA is bugged, it isn't for 1 ping kills. It is for being able to shoot down fast moving A/C at extreme range yet not be able to hit a slow moving A/C right on top of it. That is a bug.
this is good..
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Heh I'm using proggie which costs few hundred thousand dollars but IMHO its nothing but a pile of crap.
SAP R/3 anyone ?
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Where was I moaning or groaning? I was just trying to help the situation by explaining something. I'm not saying no one ever hit a tree, they just never told us...... and when the public hit a tree, and told us about it....... we fixed it.
<kicks the dead horse a few more times>
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
Fish, I believe one of the new tree types is a Larch. ;) You will see them on the sfma terrain.
<click>
this is a larch
<click>
this is a larch
<click>
fan of the monty pythons too ? ;)
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me like game. it gud
xBAT
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My Hat's off to HTC...finest WWII combat flightsim going. Great support too :D
And, I think I'll just go write some 3D code, oh wait...I think I'll go fly instead, the code is much too easy...hehe :D
Thorns
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,,,,,,,,And now no 1 the Larch,,,,,,the Larch
,,,,,,,,And now no 2 the Larch,,,,,,the Larch
etc etc etc etc,,,,,,
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First off: Well done HTC team for bringing 1.08 to the Flt Sim Community. It looks like a great deal of work went into it and came out pretty stable. Thank you for the Mossie and Hurricane in particular. That Mossie feels sooooooo real, and I have been in one!
Cheese and wine Section: My imagination bubble bursts everytime I appraoch an enemy field!! :( Despite high speed evasives, even at considerable distance, those acks hit and the aircraft falls apart...to be hit again and again....WOW!! even Phalanx systems would love this! This is 1939-45!
Cheerleading Section: LePaul, don't be a pompous , patronising twit, you give developers a bad name! FYI I was a Software Tester for the FAA/CAA Air Traffic Control system still in operation in the UK and USA. We still used to find bugs despite the very successful software service it has provided down the many years. Credit to HTC... a very slick update system, small, frequent and fast to give us, the community a great simulation game.
Ramjet
249 Sqdn RAF "Gold Coast"
Command HQ
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You either don't post under your flying handle, or don't fly here at all, so you will be ignored!
I am posting under my flying handle and I have flown in AH but I have been on vacation for few months.
You therefore must find betters reasons to ignore me.