Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dowding on February 15, 2003, 12:26:47 PM
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They reckon a million people were in the capital, exercising their democratic right.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38825000/jpg/_38825847_march1300.jpg)
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38825000/jpg/_38825863_march7300.jpg)
(http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1126832.jpg)
(http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1126873.jpg)
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I salute them for exercising their right to be heard.
When Neville Chamberlain returned from Munich on September 30 1938, he was driven straight from Heston aerodrome to Buckingham Palace - where, by royal invitation, he stood alongside the King and Queen on the balcony to acknowledge the cheers of the crowd.
Any data on how big that crowd was?
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Saddam is surely packing his bags now that he's seen that!
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I salute them too. Many had never marched for anything before, and there were a lot of veterans of all wars, including WW2 there.
The police say 750,000 and the organisers say over a million.
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Dont they feel even the slightest bit odd while they are essentially protesting in favor of the continued brutal rule of Saddam Hussein?
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Perhaps you ought to ask the Iraqi dissidents who were also marching.
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peace in our time
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At least 500000 are marching in Berlin against a war against Iraq.
Because of the bad weather only 100000 were expected.
Also members of the german government took part in this demonstration in Berlin.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Perhaps you ought to ask the Iraqi dissidents who were also marching.
probably not this guy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,895397,00.html
... And why I will not
I write this to protest against all those people who oppose the war against Saddam Hussein, or as they call it, the "war against Iraq". I am an Iraqi doctor, I worked in the Iraqi army for six years during Iraq-Iran war and four months during Gulf war. All my family still live in Iraq. I am an Arab Sunni, not Kurdish or Shia. I am an ordinary Iraqi not involved with the Iraqi opposition outside Iraq.
I am so frustrated by the appalling views of most of the British people, media and politicians. I want to say to all these people who are against the possible war, that if you think by doing so you are serving the interests of Iraqi people or saving them, you are not. You are effectively saving Saddam. You are depriving the Iraqi people of probably their last real chance get rid of him and to get out of this dark era in their history
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With us or...
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I hear a million opponents of Saddam were protesting, in their unmarked graves also :(
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On the one hand, its a wonderful and amazing thing.
On the other, it is a terribly shameful and truly damaging event.
No matter what price is paid for the freedom to peacefully demonstrate, there never seems to be a shortage of people
who through absolute ignorance and neglect, abuse that right.
I am certain that the horrific regime in power in Iraq is deeply moved, comforted and given aid by the displays of support taking place in the free world today.
I only wish these people would take their peaceful marches directly to Saddam in Iraq instead of forcing the wise and brave to suffer their display of obvious malcontent and resentful disrespect.
Shame.
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Krusher.
Thank you!
Many people the world over are with you in support despite this massive display of ignorance and cowardice. The Iraqi people are todays occupied France.
How sad and pitifull it is that France and Germany, and to a far lessor extent (but still disturbing) England, serve the role as spoilers in the liberation of another great people, the Iraqis -who through no true fault of their own find themselves occupied by a brutal dictator. It is truly amazing. How many American servicemen are buried in these three countries?
The free world is heaped in shame today.
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What I find so unbelievably stupid is that most of the demonstrators actually think they are demonstrating "against war" and not "for Saddam"...for some unknown reason they fail to understand that that is the exact same thing.
It is a disgrace.
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Saddam is smoking a big fat cigar laughing his bellybutton off right now...
S! Krusher (this will be misspelled) but I'd like to tell all the pro-saddam marchers tel has sthese and arie fiek....
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Democracy is a beautiful thing, to be cherished not despised. Shame is reserved for those who fail to understand this and seek to villify or suppress those who exercise their right to express their beliefs. This freedom of expression is the lifeblood of any free society and the crucial responsibilty of all it's members to uphold and defend.
kbman
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Proud i got my bellybutton outa bed to join that great event :)
Saddam Hussein is an awfull amazinhunk and world needs to resist him, no doubt, but bush-fire administration abuse UN and Nato for their very own interests.
Their politics are wrong and shorteyed and i don't want a war on Iraq in my name.
Regards Blitz
Iraq isn't theathening USA in any way
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So you know more about that than the US do you Blitz?
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Bye bye war.
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Originally posted by blitz
Proud i got my bellybutton outa bed to join that great event :)
Saddam Hussein is an awfull amazinhunk and world needs to resist him, no doubt, but bush-fire administration abuse UN and Nato for their very own interests.
Their politics are wrong and shorteyed and i don't want a war on Iraq in my name.
Regards Blitz
Iraq isn't theathening USA in any way
How exactly do we resit him if we cannot go to war?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
How exactly do we resit him cannot go to war?
The strategie behind this bush iraq thing is to get war back as a normal part of politics .
I hate that. It's evil.
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
The strategie behind this bush iraq thing is to get war back as a normal part of politics .
I hate that. It's evil.
Regards Blitz
And who told you that?
Or just forget that and answer my initial question, how to deal withb Saddam with no real threat to him of war?
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Kbman,
You fail to mention the responsibility that comes with freedom.
The responsibility not to support things or people which threaten
the very liberty which enables the right to protest in the first place.
These people are supporting Saddam by proxy. How ironic it is.
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800.000 in Madrid
1.250.000 in Barcelona
hundreds of thousands elsewhere across Spain
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Originally posted by takeda
800.000 in Madrid
1.250.000 in Barcelona
hundreds of thousands elsewhere across Spain
Welcome to the party :)
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
Welcome to the party :)
Regards Blitz
And thats really what it is. A big mindless social event for weak insecure people who have absloutely no idea about what is going on.
You still havent answerd my question about how to deal with Saddam. toejam I bet you dont even care about stopping him as long as there is no "WAR" "in my name". To yo dealing with Saddam hussein cobsists of empty statements something like - " oh yea Saddam is like totally a bad guy and we should resist him but no war!".
But of course I dont think this is odd comming from you blitz, a guy who thinks mass murderers like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro are just misunderstood good guys.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And thats really what it is. A big mindless social event for weak insecure people who have absloutely no idea about what is going on.
As opposed to war, which is a big mindless social event for weak insecure people who have absolutely no idea about what is going on, but are heavily armed. ;)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
And who told you that?
It's the way bush warmongers try desperately to find the slightest proof that could be used to justify a war that is decided long ago in pentagon.
Regards Blitz
Just say NO
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Yeager,
I did no such thing. I specifically refered to that responsibilty in all it's subtleties and manifestations. You make the fallacious connection between expression of one's belief that this war is unjustified and support for Saddam. That position limits that responsibilty to support for your belief that it is justified. I place no constraints or limits on that right and responsiblity whatsoever.
kbman
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So you are saying the US military is running the government now.....
But Blitz how does the uncomfortable fact that your dear all-powerful UN resolutions dating back to 1991 or so, let alone the most recent Resulution 1441, clearly state there should be severe military consequences if Iraq breaches the surrender agreement and hinders the disarmament process?
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Originally posted by kbman
Yeager,
I did no such thing. I specifically refered to that responsibilty in all it's subtleties and manifestations. You make the fallacious connection between expression of one's belief that this war is unjustified and support for Saddam. blab blaa blaaa
kbman
Amazing all those fancy words and it still comes out sounding like nonsense........
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So you are saying the US military is running the government now.....
But Blitz how does the uncomfortable fact that your dear all-powerful UN resolutions dating back to 1991 or so, let alone the most recent Resulution 1441, clearly state there should be severe military consequences if Iraq breaches the surrender agreement and hinders the disarmament process?
Heck, looks to me like you really love to see the military in action,sittin in front of ya tv, watchin CNN real videos .
Ever thought about young american guys gona die there?
Might only a few hundreds of them to die too with a lot of iraqis but i hate to gonna see a single american boy die there at all for a bad thing.
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
Heck, looks to me like you really love to see the military in action,sittin in front of ya tv, watchin CNN real videos .
Ever thought about young american guys gona die there?
Might only a few hundreds of them to die too with a lot of iraqis but i hate to gonna see a single american boy die there at all for a bad thing.
Regards Blitz
The Americans are willing to accept the chance they may be killed and that some will be killed in order to fight for a just cause.
That is what makes America and its soldiers great.
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We had millions opposed here in the USA to getting involved in WWI. Millions more opposed getting involved again in 1940.. the overwhelming majority of americans opposed Roosevelt's planned support of the British circa 1940-1941. They called it Roosevelts War, and very vocally prevented his leading america into that fight then.. to the point that he almost was oustered for lend-lease.
There was no direct threat to america in 1916 or 1940.
What would europe be like today if we didn't put on the cowboy hat and ride to the rescue?
Foolish Europe.. you cannot escape history; yet you refuse to embrace it's lessons.
I weep for the species.
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Habu,
You seem to have a problem treating anyone who disagrees with you respectfully. That is your choice and burden to bear. It's only nonsense if you don't understand it. I have expressed no opinion for or against the war in Iraq, only a belief in the fundamental right of people to express theirs. That is why we all love our freedom and why anyone would lay their lives on the line to protect that right. Simple enough?
kbman
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I'm against the war against Iraq. I'm against that some of our military will die pursuing a corrupt result. We go in and kill Saddam. We install another dictator only this time this dictator is very US business friendly. This new dictator will still not be for freedom and democracy (oh, he'll make the right speaches and so forth, but there will not be freedom of the press, free speech, unions, democratic voting). Many Iraqis (both military and innocent civillians) will die in this war.
War should be the very last option when all else has failed. Sadaam never was, is not, won't be a real threat to the US. He was our ally.
Now for those of you that want to have war, I'll gladly approve of my tax dollars funding of your trip to Iraq. You're all so brave with war as long as you don't have to go and do the fighting. (that's okay though as that's one thing our current administration has in common with you chicken hawks).
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Ever thought about young american guys gona die there?
Every waking moment it seems.
It disturbs me deeply.
It disturbs each and every one of the protestors I've seen on TV too.
So why am I a proponet of military action in Iraq?
The price of appeasment in 1939 ran to 43 million lives.
Can we afford to appease saddam or his ilk?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
We had millions opposed here in the USA to getting involved in WWI. Millions more opposed getting involved again in 1940.. the overwhelming majority of americans opposed Roosevelt's planned support of the British circa 1940-1941. They called it Roosevelts War, and very vocally prevented his leading america into that fight then.. to the point that he almost was oustered for lend-lease.
There was no direct threat to america in 1916 or 1940.
What would europe be like today if we didn't put on the cowboy hat and ride to the rescue?
Foolish Europe.. you cannot escape history; yet you refuse to embrace it's lessons.
I weep for the species.
Ahoi hang,
thats right . And ya had millions in America goin on the streets to end a mindless war in Vietnam which costs the life of 60000 young americans , hit the life of a whole generation and brought the druggs into your cities just for nothin...., and even if ya won that useless war it had been for nothin at all.
Regards Blitz
USA isn't threatened by Iraq in any way and Iraq ist a world war .
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Originally posted by kbman
Habu,
You seem to have a problem treating anyone who disagrees with you respectfully. That is your choice and burden to bear. It's only nonsense if you don't understand it. I have expressed no opinion for or against the war in Iraq, only a belief in the fundamental right of people to express theirs. That is why we all love our freedom and why anyone would lay their lives on the line to protect that right. Simple enough?
kbman
No. This is simple. Protest against the US making Iraq live up to the UN resolutions and you are in fact protesting in favor of Iraq and its present government.
Leave Iraq alone means leave Saddam alone. Leave him free to brutalize his people. To kill them. To aquire WMD. To give money to the families of bombers. To support terrorism.
Funny I could not sleep at night if I supported that stand. I wonder how you do?
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Originally posted by blitz
Ahoi hang,
thats right . And ya had millions in America goin on the streets to end a mindless war in Vietnam which costs the life of 60000 young americans just for nothin....
Regards Blitz
The US learned allot from Vietnam and since Vietnam. Which is why they will never lose a war like that again. In Vietnam it was the politicians calling the shots in battle. Now it is the military.
If Vietnam had been fought with the intention of winning it then the US would have. To do so would have entailed facing down the USSR and China though. Since the US politicians were not willing to do that they should have committed to the war. If they had done that they would have won. By not doing it they allowed the Viet Cong to humiliate them.
As I said they learned by their mistakes. There is no half way in war. You are either in 100% or not at all.
Which is precisely why the regime of Saddam Hussein is doomed if the US attack.
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USA isn't threatened by Iraq in any way
Blitz, I strongly disagree. That is the central issue.. and it's why we are going to war this time. It ain't to pull YOUR fat outta the fryer this time.. it's a pre-emptive attack on a supporter of AQ, Hammas and other terrorist/ fundamentalist groups, and a known possesor and manufacturer of WMD.
We've demonstrated to our satisfaction that a clear threat is posed by saddam and his regime. Demonstrate refuting evidence.. show me credible links that debunk the CIA and State Department evidence as displayed by Colin Powell on Feb 5 at the UN and I will grab a sign and join the protests.
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In 1940 – 42, the ‘America First Committee’ influenced public opinion through publications and speeches and within a year the organization had 450 local chapters and over 800,000 members, when the US population was on the order of 140 million.
An excerpt from one of their statements:
“In his speech on September 11, 1941, President Roosevelt informed the nation that, without consultation with, or approval by, the Congress of the United States, he had ordered our naval and air patrols to clear all German and Italian warships from any waters considered vital to American defense, and had, in effect, ordered our armed forces to "shoot on sight." . . .
His asserted justification for this sudden move, admittedly involving danger of involvement in a "shooting war," arose out of the sinking of three merchant ships and attacks on two American warships....
[The] important criticisms of the President's speech are these: 1) shooting war is not justified; 2) it circumvents the spirit of the Neutrality Act and the Lease-Lend law; 3) the doctrine which the President calls "freedom of the seas" is really "freedom to aid one country at war without interference from that country's enemies"; 4) it takes the war-making power away from Congress.[/b]
Examination of the circumstances under which occurred the attacks upon American ships cited by the President, demonstrates clearly that they fail utterly to justify participation in a "shooting war."
The three merchant ships were the Robin Moor, the Steel Seafarer and the Sessa. The Robin Moor was sunk in the South Atlantic while carrying contraband to British South Africa, a country at war.... The Steel Seafarer was sunk without loss of life in the Red Sea, some 12,000 miles from the United States, while carrying war supplies for Britain, a country at war....”
Printed in a newsletter, 23 September 1941
A few months after this statement, they issued another statement, expressing full support for the war effort.
I wonder what changed their minds?
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I realised how misguided the marchers were when, passing the news stands this morning, I saw the Daily Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/) with a picture of a very ill Iraqi boy on the front page. The mirror claimed that this boy was one reason not to go to war with Iraq. And I could not help thinking that Saddam has killed thousands like him - by starvation - by the way he has dealt with sanctions imposed against him because of his own bellicose behaviour.
The demonstrators/marchers have a very limited field of view. The last anti-military demonstration of this kind that I remember was that of the "Peace Wimmin" who demonstrated outside the airbase at USAF Greenham Common in the mid 1980s against Cruise Missile deployment. They wanted Britain to scrap all nuclear weapons - in the HOPE that Russia would do the same!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: That's like advising people not to lock their doors at night, in the HOPE that burglars will turn over a new leaf... :confused:
The demonstrators/marchers are well meaning people - just like the Greenham Common Peace Wimmin, but do not have a complete grasp of the situation. I believe that more Iraqi lives will be saved if action is taken against Saddam, than would be lost if he retains power. That is my belief. The job should have been finished the first time, but the Unilateral Nannies put a stop to it.
Now the only embarrassing thing is that it would be nice if we had more data linking Saddam to al qaeda. But we have to look back in history to Libya/Gaddaffi. He openly voiced his disdain for the west, and his support for terror. He was dealt with in 1986. People say that Saddam poses no threat to the USA or the rest of the world. To that, I add my considered one word reply: BOLLOCKS. Just because Saddam is not in a position to launch an offensive against the US/western world does not mean that he is not sympathetic to that cause. I believe he would sell his weapons, so far "unaccounted for" to anti-US terror groups. And make no mistake: If they are anti US, they are likely anti the rest of the western world.
So
No-one *likes* war. No-one *likes* the dentist's drill. And we take precautions to avoid it. On occasion, things don't go as we had hoped, and a tooth needs attention. The dentist's drill is far more preferable to the decay and agonising toothache that would otherwise follow. (Sorry, my analogy bin is running low)
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No-one *likes* war. No-one *likes* the dentist's drill. And we take precautions to avoid it. On occasion, things don't go as we had hoped, and a tooth needs attention. The dentist's drill is far more preferable to the decay and agonising toothache that would otherwise follow. (Sorry, my analogy bin is running low)
ROFL beetle!
Yer anology strikes home. Just lost two teeth in the dentists chair thursday. Agony. Blinding agony. The pain that precceded it (years of it) finally drove me into the madmans chair. He was a saudi, by the way. ;)
Anyway.. got the first good nights sleep I've had in over a year last night.. finally free of the grinding pain thats been racking me. The momentary agony of the dentist vs no more pain today... good trade. shoulda done it sooner. Fear kept me outta the chair.. pain drove me to it at last.
Moral of the story? I have no idea. ;) I AM m looking forward to pain-free living now...
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Blitz, I strongly disagree. That is the central issue.. and it's why we are going to war this time. It ain't to pull YOUR fat outta the fryer this time.. it's a pre-emptive attack on a supporter of AQ, Hammas and other terrorist/ fundamentalist groups, and a known possesor and manufacturer of WMD.
We've demonstrated to our satisfaction that a clear threat is posed by saddam and his regime. Demonstrate refuting evidence.. show me credible links that debunk the CIA and State Department evidence as displayed by Colin Powell on Feb 5 at the UN and I will grab a sign and join the protests.
Sorry hang,
would love to do but most is reading on newspapers here.
When Collin Powell held his speech at UN he used (among others) a brit paper which was later uncovered to be copied from a 10year old work of a britich studend.
Tells me some.....
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by Rasker
I hear a million opponents of Saddam were protesting, in their unmarked graves also :(
Oh come on, theres whole lot of human right issues to deal in africa and south america..
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Originally posted by beet1e
I realised how misguided the marchers were when, passing the news stands this morning, I saw the Daily Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/) with a picture of a very ill Iraqi boy on the front page. The mirror claimed that this boy was one reason not to go to war with Iraq. And I could not help thinking that Saddam has killed thousands like him - by starvation - by the way he has dealt with sanctions imposed against him because of his own bellicose behaviour.
The demonstrators/marchers have a very limited field of view. The last anti-military demonstration of this kind that I remember was that of the "Peace Wimmin" who demonstrated outside the airbase at USAF Greenham Common in the mid 1980s against Cruise Missile deployment. They wanted Britain to scrap all nuclear weapons - in the HOPE that Russia would do the same!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: That's like advising people not to lock their doors at night, in the HOPE that burglars will turn over a new leaf... :confused:
The demonstrators/marchers are well meaning people - just like the Greenham Common Peace Wimmin, but do not have a complete grasp of the situation. I believe that more Iraqi lives will be saved if action is taken against Saddam, than would be lost if he retains power. That is my belief. The job should have been finished the first time, but the Unilateral Nannies put a stop to it.
Now the only embarrassing thing is that it would be nice if we had more data linking Saddam to al qaeda. But we have to look back in history to Libya/Gaddaffi. He openly voiced his disdain for the west, and his support for terror. He was dealt with in 1986. People say that Saddam poses no threat to the USA or the rest of the world. To that, I add my considered one word reply: BOLLOCKS. Just because Saddam is not in a position to launch an offensive against the US/western world does not mean that he is not sympathetic to that cause. I believe he would sell his weapons, so far "unaccounted for" to anti-US terror groups. And make no mistake: If they are anti US, they are likely anti the rest of the western world.
So
No-one *likes* war. No-one *likes* the dentist's drill. And we take precautions to avoid it. On occasion, things don't go as we had hoped, and a tooth needs attention. The dentist's drill is far more preferable to the decay and agonising toothache that would otherwise follow. (Sorry, my analogy bin is running low)
Ahoi beetle,
it's the embargo that causes iraque children to die.
Weapons, high technology parts ok but to cause a famine was a crime just like bombin german cities to eternity in WW2.
Regards Blitz
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When Collin Powell held his speech at UN he used (among others) a brit paper which was later uncovered to be copied from a 10year old work of a britich studend.
I've heard this several times now. Have not seen it verified. Please do show me a link to this story.. I'd very much like to see what british student is providing 10 year old background material the CIA and State dept considers appropriate to present to the UN as evidence concerning the present state of Iraqi WMD development, the current recent presence of AQ operatives in baghdad, the current existence of an AQ camp in NE iraq, etc. Does this brit student have access to last months sattelite imagry, back in 1992? Did this Brit student brief the State Dept on current Iraq/AQ/Hammas connections?
Dammit.. I'm nauseated by how fast folks like you are to run out in the streets with your hair on fire to oppose the US.. but just what in hell is it REALLY your basing this decision upon??
I suspect that you and your friends are just parroting your yellow press and not checking for yourselves the veracity of the information you parrot! What source is your newspaper quoting!!!???
Show me data! Show me links to this 'proof' that powell is full of toejam!
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was a crime just like bombin german cities to eternity in WW2.
Ah. The crux, isin't it.. be honest. The reason your presence in the anti-us demonstration is to pay us back for dresden?
*ding*
Dresden was the price paid for your nation starting that damn war, Blitz. We ain't fighting WWII anymore.. why are you? You sicken me.. it's ok to bash the average american for pointing at the 'ungrateful treacherous french'.. but you waste not a moment to point at the american bombing of europe as the crime of the century. Clue, Blitz.. yer nation earned every diddlyin bomb dropped on it.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Oh come on, theres whole lot of human right issues to deal in africa and south america..
So it's best we do nothing about any of them? Don't start on any one of them unless we can "fix" them all at the same time?
Well, we could all wring our hands and say "tsk, tsk" and stuff like that, I guess.
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whoa guys, the text I posted below the LINK was of an Iraqi Doctor not myself.. sorry for the misunderstanding.
check out the link for the full text..
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I've heard this several times now. Have not seen it verified. Please do show me a link to this story.. I'd very much like to see what british student is providing 10 year old background material the CIA and State dept considers appropriate to present to the UN as evidence concerning the present state of Iraqi WMD development, the current recent presence of AQ operatives in baghdad, the current existence of an AQ camp in NE iraq, etc. Does this brit student have access to last months sattelite imagry, back in 1992? Did this Brit student brief the State Dept on current Iraq/AQ/Hammas connections?
Dammit.. I'm nauseated by how fast folks like you are to run out in the streets with your hair on fire to oppose the US.. but just what in hell is it REALLY your basing this decision upon??
I suspect that you and your friends are just parroting your yellow press and not checking for yourselves the veracity of the information you parrot! What source is your newspaper quoting!!!???
Ahoi hang,
no need to get personal.
do your search alone it's http://www.tagesspiegel.de/
and that's a soft conservative paper, readin it for 20 years now.
No yellow press readin here , belivin them is like belivin these cia peeps.
Regards Blitz
Show me data! Show me links to this 'proof' that powell is full of toejam!
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Krusher is not Iraqi. He lifted that from the link he posted.
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I cannot read german. please post a link to the story, not the newspaper itself. I can have the story translated.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by blitz
Heck, looks to me like you really love to see the military in action,sittin in front of ya tv, watchin CNN real videos .
Ever thought about young american guys gona die there?
Might only a few hundreds of them to die too with a lot of iraqis but i hate to gonna see a single american boy die there at all for a bad thing.
Regards Blitz
They way I see it, better a few hundred young military men who voluntered and go forward willingly with enthusiasm than 10,000 innocent men women children grandfathers grandmothers aunts and uncles scared to death dying agonizing inhuman deaths to gases or biological agents spread by fanatical muslim extremists bent on punishing the evil US of A.
Ask a US postal worker how they feel? Anthrax is a bad way to go. How is nerve gas I wonder.
If you think Saddam would sell his stores to radicals your nuts. He would/will/has given them away freely and probably paid the shipping charges.
I think everyone should have the right to protest and demonstrate, but these people are just showing there ignorance of the issues.
Yes! NO MORE WAR! In a perfect world...of which we are in short supply.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Ah. The crux, isin't it.. be honest. The reason your presence in the anti-us demonstration is to pay us back for dresden?
*ding*
Dresden was the price paid for your nation starting that damn war, Blitz. We ain't fighting WWII anymore.. why are you? You sicken me.. it's ok to bash the average american for pointing at the 'ungrateful treacherous french'.. but you waste not a moment to point at the american bombing of europe as the crime of the century. Clue, Blitz.. yer nation earned every diddlyin bomb dropped on it.
Ahoi hang,
wasn't the crime of the century , was just a warcrime like shootin german pilots that bailed out but that were at least soldiers....
Hell, Nazi germany started that crap on coventry, london, warschau and many others but its nethertheless a warcrime, and ya know that very well.
Regards Blitz
USA is threathened by Iraq in no way.
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Hangtime, you remember that dossier on Iraq the British government posted a couple of months ago that supposedly was eye-opening and cutting and a reason why Saddam should be tackled? It was lifted from a thesis by some American-Iraqi student, typos and all.
BBC story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2741737.stm)
Detailed comparison (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2736149.stm)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
I cannot read german. please post a link to the story, not the newspaper itself. I can have the story translated.
Thanks.
Ok, ill try to find that. but give me time till tommorrow, plse.
Thx blitz
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Originally posted by Dowding
Hangtime, you remember that dossier on Iraq the British government posted a couple of months ago that supposedly was eye-opening and cutting and a reason why Saddam should be tackled? It was lifted from a thesis by some American-Iraqi student, typos and all.
BBC story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2741737.stm)
Detailed comparison (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2736149.stm)
Thx dowding.
Hate that full text search on german newspapers with bad searchin engine :)
Regards
Blitz
See you on next demonstration now hang?
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USA is threathened by Iraq in no way.
Here we go again..
Since you refuse to show me your evidence; here's mine. Refute it!
Salient points only, from Powells address Feb 5
AND READ IT FER CRISSAKES!
Zarqawi, a Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialities and one of the specialties of this camp is poisons. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqaqi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp. And this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.
(Picture of camp shown.)
The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch — image a pinch of salt — less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote, there is no cure. It is fatal.
Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq. But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization, Ansar al-Islam, that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000 this agent offered al Qaeda safe haven in the region. After we swept al Qaeda from Afghanistan, some of its members accepted this safe haven. They remain there today.
Zarqawi's activities are not confined to this small corner of north east Iraq. He traveled to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, staying in the capital of Iraq for two months while he recuperated to fight another day.
During this stay, nearly two dozen extremists converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there. These Al Qaeda affiliates, based in Baghdad, now coordinate the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for his network, and they've now been operating freely in the capital for more than eight months.
Iraqi officials deny accusations of ties with al Qaeda. These denials are simply not credible. Last year an al Qaeda associate bragged that the situation in Iraq was, quote, "good," that Baghdad could be transited quickly.
What Brit student produced this information?? Dammit Blitz.. did you ever read the transcript or see the address.. what in the transcript above don't you get?
Ok.. as to WMD, and what Saddam is doing with it RIGHT NOW>> :
How do I know that? How can I say that? Let me give you a closer look. Look at the image on the left. On the left is a close- up of one of the four chemical bunkers. The two arrows indicate the presence of sure signs that the bunkers are storing chemical munitions. The arrow at the top that says security points to a facility that is the signature item for this kind of bunker. Inside that facility are special guards and special equipment to monitor any leakage that might come out of the bunker.
(shows sattelite imagry to UN Council)
The truck you also see is a signature item. It's a decontamination vehicle in case something goes wrong.
This is characteristic of those four bunkers. The special security facility and the decontamination vehicle will be in the area, if not at any one of them or one of the other, it is moving around those four, and it moves as it needed to move, as people are working in the different bunkers.
Now look at the picture on the right. You are now looking at two of those sanitized bunkers. The signature vehicles are gone, the tents are gone, it's been cleaned up, and it was done on the 22nd of December, as the U.N. inspection team is arriving, and you can see the inspection vehicles arriving in the lower portion of the picture on the right.
The bunkers are clean when the inspectors get there. They found nothing.
Saddam's got 'em, he's hiding them.. and despite the fact we ain't on the metric system 2 + 2 still equals 4 in the USA.. He's got WMD, and he's got terrorists connections. He's a gawddamned threat of the highest order to this nation!!
STOP TELLIN ME HE'S NO THREAT TO THE USA UNLESS YOU CAN POST PROOF THAT REFUTES WHATS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS!!
(http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/wtc911.jpg)
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Imagine if Americans cared so much about the freedom of the people in their central american puppet states. Where demonstrations have been routinely answered with torture and death squads.
But those are "good" torturers.
If the US will condone shuch acts for the sake of a bannana crop..what will they do for a big chunk of the earths oil.
If Sadam was willing to play US ball. He would still be a neccesary evil..And have the suppor of the US and its press.But since he is not. 100s of thousands of Iraqis must die to oust him.
That is all this is about. Not freedom. Not any threat to the US. But US control of that oil.
Its just how the world and people work. We make weapons to use them to get what we want.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Imagine if Americans cared so much about the freedom of the people in their central american puppet states. Where demonstrations have been routinely answered with torture and death squads.
But those are "good" torturers.
If the US will condone shuch acts for the sake of a bannana crop..what will they do for a big chunk of the earths oil.
If Sadam was willing to play US ball. He would still be a neccesary evil..And have the suppor of the US and its press.But since he is not. 100s of thousands of Iraqis must die to oust him.
That is all this is about. Not freedom. Not any threat to the US. But US control of that oil.
Its just how the world and people work. We make weapons to use them to get what we want.
You hit the nail at the top.
Amen
Regards Blitz
Iraq is threathening USA in no way, it's just plain redicuolous but Saudi Arabia whith all their hitchhikers joining WTC massacra ....but whait,these democrats are our allies...
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Thank you Dowding!!
Been scrolling thru it.. interesting... but none of it seems to be included anywhere in Powells address.
Did I miss something?
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Not any threat to the US. But US control of that oil.
roadkill x2 pongo. If we wanted oil, we can steal it from you and mexico a hell of a lot easier than we can steal it from Iraq.
Aside from anti-us retoric, you got some FACTS to offer?
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Pongo, which are "our" South American "puppet states"?
Second question, what exactly are we making them do? What strings are we pulling to get which reaction?
Lastly, how would CANADA get rid of the repressive regimes in South America? I know you folks don't believe in force, so how would you do it?
Thanks.
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Originally posted by blitz
Ahoi beetle,
it's the embargo that causes iraque children to die.Regards Blitz
No No No No NO................ During tonight's Ch4 news, Tony Benn (liberal/lefty pacifist) came face to face with the pro-war Iraqi woman. He said what you said - the santions were what was killing the children.
And the Iraqi woman interrupted Tony Benn, and said "No, it's not the sanctions that are killing Iraqis. It's SADDAM that's doing the killing" Stick that in your curved pipe and smoke it! Hehe, no need - we will discuss this over 6 beers out of your beer cooler at the Eurocon. :):)
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Originally posted by beet1e
No No No No NO................ During tonight's Ch4 news, Tony Benn (liberal/lefty pacifist) came face to face with the pro-war Iraqi woman. He said what you said - the santions were what was killing the children.
And the Iraqi woman interrupted Tony Benn, and said "No, it's not the sanctions that are killing Iraqis. It's SADDAM that's doing the killing" Stick that in your curved pipe and smoke it! Hehe, no need - we will discuss this over 6 beers out of your beer cooler at the Eurocon. :):)
Ahoi beetle,
a few days ago i read a statement by a german civil servant who was workin for Un tryin to keep that embargo up.
He did it from 1998 till 2000 than dismissed, because he saw what that embargo did to iraq people.
Regards Blitz
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The embargo did not work Blitz, because Germany And France decided to circumvent it by propping up saddam with arms for oil.
Prove me wrong.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
The embargo did not work Blitz, because Germany And France decided to circumvent it by propping up saddam with arms for oil.
Prove me wrong.
Not sure what ya refering to hang.
Plese give me time period and event, plse.
Regards Blitz
btw I'm not thinkin Germany or France is any better than USA.
Got no idea why we against war all of a sudden.
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Blitz, you openly supported Saddam Hussein today. You used your right to demonstrate in support of a man who would have you tortured and killed for doing the same in his country.
You demonstrated a severe disrespect and contempt towards all people in uniform in all free nations who have volunteered to protect your right to excercise that very freedom.
Hows it feel?
Are there any people of Germany who have any sense of debt to the freedom they enjoyed today?
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Originally posted by Yeager
Blitz, you openly supported Saddam Hussein today. You used your right to demonstrate in support of a man who would have you tortured and killed for doing the same in his country.
You demonstrated a severe disrespect and contempt towards all people in uniform in all free nations who have volunteered to protect your right to excercise that very freedom.
Hows it feel?
Are there any people of Germany who have any sense of debt to the freedom they enjoyed today?
Ahoi yeager,
i don't have any special respect for people in uniforms.
Have great respect for people in uniform who don't hand over their heads at the entrance of the barracks, tho.
Civilians in uniforms who keep thinkin although in arms.
There are no targets, it's people you are destroyin , better get rid of.'My officer told me to...'
Regards Blitz
Remember a documentation on american women who wanted to be a soldier. Cammera team joined them over some month. Called ' Women Soldiers'
Wasn't that nice, they tried to break people.
At the very end of that documentation an officer, responcible for them new cadets, sittin alone in an room is ask by the crew if he can love at all and this folk just said:' Can't,lost it in Vietnam'.
Nearly cried for him, it's a shame.
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Originally posted by blitz
i don't have any special respect for people in uniforms.
Hmm
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Hmm
Ya caught me :D
Talkin of people in uniforms with arms except policemen. :)
Regards Blitz
America is threathened by Iraq in no way.
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Blitz is treatened with a brain in no way.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Blitz is treatened with a brain in no way.
That was under your dignity , sorry Sir.
Regards Blitz
America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's rediculous.
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Tossin a Columbine documentary or a sexually crippled vietnam vet at me as a reason for anything pissed me off.
I stand corrected.
"Blitz is threathened by a brain in no way, it's rediculous"
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Tossin a Columbine documentary or a sexually crippled vietnam vet at me as a reason for anything pissed me off.
I stand corrected.
"Blitz is threathened by a brain in no way, it's rediculous"
Looks more to me as ya gettin old, hang, just wantin the world devided into the 'The good and the Bad'. , as in the 'ol days, was great, eh? We, the fighters for democracy against the 'Red Hordes' If it onlywas that simple.
Regards Blitz
America isn't threathened by Iraq in any way
btw. vietnam vets at Berlin Anti iraq war looked very vivid to me, no need to fight them as brainless monsters, thought they were german till they began to talk.
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Blitz you are a degenerate. You despise western soldiers, "people in uniform - with guns" but you count Che
Guevara and Fidel Castro among your heros.
Shameful! Shameful! Shameful! Shameful!
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Blitz you are a degenerate. You despise western soldiers, "people in uniform - with guns" but you count Che
Guevara and Fidel Castro among your heros.
Shameful! Shameful! Shameful! Shameful!
Gruen, it is always nice to meet ya.
Regards Blitz
America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous.
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Thats nice but why not just ahead and explain why you have npo respect for western soldiers in uniform while you count brutal military henchmen and dictators like Guevara and Castro among your heros? Seems to me liked them because they are communists.
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Originally posted by kbman
Habu,
You seem to have a problem treating anyone who disagrees with you respectfully. That is your choice and burden to bear. It's only nonsense if you don't understand it. I have expressed no opinion for or against the war in Iraq, only a belief in the fundamental right of people to express theirs. That is why we all love our freedom and why anyone would lay their lives on the line to protect that right. Simple enough?
kbman
Welcome to the O'Club where all issues are either black or white.
Grey is not tolerated.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats nice but why not just ahead and explain why you have npo respect for western soldiers in uniform while you count brutal military henchmen and dictators like Guevara and Castro among your heros? Seems to me liked them because they are communists.
Alright, enough of Gruen bla,bla , time to go to bed in 'Ol europe'.
Looks like we at least not as rusty as Mr. Rumpelfeld thought ;)
Regards Blitz
America is threathened in no way by Iraq, altough i got not the slightest doubt that this war will happen as planned long ago in pentagon.
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Originally posted by blitz
it's the embargo that causes iraque children to die.
The U.N. allows him to sell enough oil to feed his population. If children or others are starving, the fault can only be his. During the chaos of his coming defeat, I hope his own population can catch him without any of his 2,500 bodyguards around
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blitz,
What does your name mean?
How did the term "blitz" come about?
What was going on when that word was on everyone's lips?
How did the world get to that point?
Do you think that history repeats itself?
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
blitz,
What does your name mean?
How did the term "blitz" come about?
What was going on when that word was on everyone's lips?
How did the world get to that point?
Do you think that history repeats itself?
eskimo
Bet ya tell me, you're the teacher right ?
Regards Blitz
America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous.
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Originally posted by Toad
Lastly, how would CANADA get rid of the repressive regimes in South America? I know you folks don't believe in force, so how would you do it?
Thanks.
Send in the CIA.
Oops, they screwed up Venezuela.