Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on February 15, 2003, 02:12:29 PM
-
Ok leftist degenerates since military action is out of the question for you, nore anti-war protests, tell me how many more UN resolutions are required to deal with Saddam?
-
When he ties with Israel we start talking
-
Originally posted by takeda
When he ties with Israel we start talking
And how many times has Israel used chemical weapons on the Palestinians? So start talking amazinhunk.
-
Steve.. you have a sharp mind, excellent arguments, valid points.
all lost when you drop into personal invectives.
I need your help.. we need your help. But the good you do is lost with the bitter rejoinders, earned or not.
-
My dear Steve, lobbing a Hellfire into a crowded market is so much more humane and nicer than suffocating people with mustard gas...
How many dead Iraquis does it take to keep fuel under 2$?
NEJ TILL KRIG MOT IRAK. INGET SVENSKT STÖD TILL USA:S KRIG!
-
Takeda, if we wanted oil, we'd invade canada and mexico.
Get a clue.. this ain't about americas thirst for oil.. in fact, the oil considerations are purely eupropean in nature.. the multi*billion dollar leases held by France and Germany, paper signed by Saddam is the prime motivation for French and german reticience.
They've placed their finacial considerations in Iraq as holding far more weight than americas war on terror.
It's the cost of gas in YOUR tank.. not mine, thats at stake here.
-
Originally posted by takeda
My dear Steve, lobbing a Hellfire into a crowded market is so much more humane and nicer than suffocating people with mustard gas...
How many dead Iraquis does it take to keep fuel under 2$?
NEJ TILL KRIG MOT IRAK. INGET SVENSKT STÖD TILL USA:S KRIG!
Oh I see takeda. You think the war is coming because of the price of oil? Why don't you read this article and you will understand better.
Charles Krauthammer
From the Feb. 17, 2003 issue of TIME magazine
War in Iraq is coming. The demonstrators shout, "No blood for oil!" In his State of the Union address, President Bush declares, "We exercise power without conquest, and we sacrifice for the liberty of strangers." Which is it? Well, it ain't for oil. And it is for more than liberty.
What the demonstrators, who have the historical memory of a gnat, don't understand is that, on the contrary, oil is why America kept its distance from the region for so long. Ever since Franklin Roosevelt made alliance with Saudi Arabia, the U.S. chose to leave the Arab world to its own political and social devices so long as it remained a reasonably friendly petrol station. The arrangement lasted a very long time. Had Sept. 11 never happened, it would have lasted longer.
Sept. 11 brought home a terrible truth. It revealed a mortal enemy, even more fanatical than the vanquished scourges of the 20th century (fascism and communism), lying this time in the bosom of the Arab world. It was temporarily housed in Afghanistan, but it was not Afghan. It has non-Arab Islamic adherents, but it is not pan-Islamic. It does not speak for all Arabs, but it does speak to Arab frustrations, failures and fantasies, what Fouad Ajami has called "the dream palace of the Arabs."
Neglect, it turned out, had a price, a terrible price. After World War II, America pressed for democratic reform in Germany and Japan and throughout Western Europe and Asia. It succeeded. Democracy put down roots. Yet two regions remained exempt from this democratizing impulse: Africa, because of its chaos and lack of strategic assets; and the Middle East, because of its oil and apparent benignity.
Sept. 11 forever abolished the notion of benignity. It revealed an Arab world that had resisted modernization and democracy — and become home to the most virulent anti-Americanism on the planet. And that hatred threatens the most catastrophic consequences. Maybe not from Saddam, maybe not even from al-Qaeda. Maybe only from their emulators and successors. The players may change, but the blow will come.
Hence the awful realization: preventing the next Sept. 11 will require America to engage the Arab world the way it engaged Europe and Asia a half-century ago. Totally. We have long recoiled from such an undertaking. For decades, we tried a far more modest approach to the Arab world. It had three parts:
--Pacification: buying off and subsidizing corrupt governments.
--Policing: dealing with terrorism as a form of crime, not war.
--Patrolling: maintaining a balance of power in the region principally through an offshore naval presence.
After Sept. 11, the old offshore, hands-off, see-no-evil policy will not suffice. We now understand the cost of that abdication. It leaves a critical part of the world insulated and isolated — and incubating terrible enemies and terrible weapons.
Hence Iraq. This is about more than the terrible weapons. It is about reconstituting a terrorized society. A de-Saddamized Iraq with a decent government could revolutionize the region. It would provide friendly basing not just for the outward projection of American power but also for the outward projection of democratic and modernizing ideas, which is why the Administration plans an 18-month occupation for a civil and political reconstruction unlike any since postwar Germany and Japan. If we succeed, the effect on the region would be enormous, encouraging democrats and modernizers — and threatening despots and troglodytes — in neighboring Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria and beyond. To do this, however, America must give up patrolling from over the horizon. It must come ashore.
Americans don't like that. They do not hunger for exotic lands. America is perhaps the only hegemonic power in history in constant search of "exit strategies." But Sept. 11 taught that what the U.S. needs in the Arab world is not an exit strategy but an entry strategy. Iraq is the beckoning door.
The Arabs fully understand this historic shift from containment to construction. They see that pan-Arab reformation is the deepest meaning of an American entry into Iraq. That is why the Arab League so strenuously opposes the intervention. The rulers of the 22 Arab states — not a single one freely elected — understand that Iraq is only the beginning and that reformation ultimately spells their end. Not a happy prospect for them, but a real hope for their long-repressed peoples — and for those threatened by the chaos and fanaticism bred in that cauldron of repression.
Reformation and reconstruction of an alien culture are a daunting task. Risky and, yes, arrogant. Which is why there is no great desire in America to undertake such a mission. Before 9/11, no one would have seriously even proposed it. After 9/11, we dare not shrink from it. America is coming ashore.
Charles Krauthammer
From the Feb. 17, 2003 issue of TIME magazine
-
a "hellfire" is a anit-tank weapon, not some thing to shoot into a market place,
a small point, the jews only shoot back after a sucide bombing.
saddam only needs enough resolutions to hold out untill jan 2005 when queen hillery takes over the white house, then saddam can relax and wellcome the new US ambassador to iraq , bill clinton
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Ok leftist degenerates since military action is out of the question for you, nore anti-war protests, tell me how many more UN resolutions are required to deal with Saddam?
UN Resolutions on Iraq
678 - which authorized member states to use all means necessary to ensure Iraq complied with earlier demands to withdraw its forces from where they were located on 1 August 1990
687, which reaffirmed the need to be assured of Iraq’s peaceful intentions in the light of its unlawful invasion and occupation of Kuwait and prohibited Iraq from manufacturing or using weapons of mass destruction, was adopted by the Security Council.
688, which demanded Iraq immediately end repression of its civilian population
1441 - the latest one to be ignored
only one has been complied with... pssst guess what... it took a war to get that one
-
Krauthammer:
The rulers of the 22 Arab states — not a single one freely elected — understand that Iraq is only the beginning and that reformation ultimately spells their end.
That is a "shack".
-
"the jews only shoot back after a sucide bombing"
im still laughin at that one lol so wrong its funny
habu was that quote from time or young facists digest lol. simply sophistic propaganda based on nothing but justification after the fact.
-
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
"the jews only shoot back after a sucide bombing"
im still laughin at that one lol so wrong its funny
habu was that quote from time or young facists digest lol. simply sophistic propaganda based on nothing but justification after the fact.
I have quite a few more articles that you could read if you are interested. But you are not. Everyone who does not think like you is a "facist" I see.
I think that article hit the nail on the head quite accurately. BTW I should explain. I have lived in a couple of Muslim states for many years in the late 80's early 90's. I have worked for a French company. I have worked in the Oil industry. My opinions are based on what I learned in my travels. The majority of the population of many of those states are being treated like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed a diet of toejam.
Obviously that approach has not worked, for many reasons. When Saudi Arabia is the source of the majority of the terrorists in the Sept 11 attacks you have to wonder what this new generation of middle eastern youths is being taught.
Pacification, policing and patrolling has been a failure as a policy, and as the author states "after Sept. 11, the old offshore, hands-off, see-no-evil policy will not suffice. We now understand the cost of that abdication. It leaves a critical part of the world insulated and isolated — and incubating terrible enemies and terrible weapons."
What you don't see is that your opinion as a German or a Frenchman or other European does not really matter. You are not the target, the US is. And therefore you can protest and scream and stamp your feet and call the Americans all the names you want. They will do what they have to do and if your country does not go along with them then all you will do is weaken NATO and the UN and the relationship you have with the US.
There are many governments that recognize the threat these countries pose and they value their relationship with the US enough to stand along side them in this time of need.
I am glad that the US is realizing that France and Germany are not the staunch allies that the general population in the US has thought. I saw it years ago. The French in particular love to piss all over the US. It is great that Americans are seeing this clearly now.
Keep on protesting if you feel better doing it. I am not a fascist and what you think makes no difference. The US has tried your approach for the past 30 years and it does not work. And now they realize this. Sept 11th was the wakeup call.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
Steve.. you have a sharp mind, excellent arguments, valid points.
all lost when you drop into personal invectives.
I need your help.. we need your help. But the good you do is lost with the bitter rejoinders, earned or not.
Hang, you are of cource completely correct. It seems I loose my temper with some of the fellas and their ideas here too easy. Anyway, I'll stop the language now, thanks for letting me know.
-
Originally posted by john9001
a small point, the jews only shoot back after a sucide bombing.
a big point, the palestinians only commit suicide bombings after being occupied.
-
Originally posted by Thud
a big point, the palestinians only commit suicide bombings after being occupied.
And the Israelis only occupied the West bank after being attacked twice by the arabs.
-
True, but except for the Golan they took everything out of their own initiative.