Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on February 16, 2003, 09:25:32 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/16/sprj.irq.protests/index.html
Death to Amreeka!
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Just think how many human shields that could be........hmmm.
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Yes millions. Maybe Saddam could pile their would be corpses so high atop every single Iraqi "Baby Milk Plant" that they would become invulnerable to all US air attack. :D
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War Protestor Degenerates
Some of those 'degenerates' were war veterans.
Some of those 'degenerates' were WW2 veterans.
One of those 'degenerates' was a Para who fought at Arhem.
I'd stand shoulder to shoulder with that particular 'degenerate' any day of the week.
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Good for you! Timothy McVeigh was a veteran too...
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Of course, I see the light now! This decorated war hero who fought against the Nazis in some of the bloodiest engagements in a very hard war is equivalent to some American white-trash nutjob fond of killing women and children!
Just what planet are you on?
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You brought up the war veterans thing... Just pointing out that vets can have awful political ideas.
Interesting though how you were so quick to attack him as "white-trash" - if he was black would you have called him a cupcake so boldly?
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And, how many VETS aren't protesting?
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Originally posted by Monk
And, how many VETS aren't protesting?
rg that - the media doesn't want to put them on the tube
how many want this hand wringing to end so they can get in there, do their jobs and get home to their love ones
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Err, I am kinda uninformed here, didn't read the papers or watched the news.
Why exactly Iraq has to be attacked/invaded whatever ?
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Another thing, how old is This "Vet", is he thinking clearly.
I mean did the people that took him along tell him that the Americans are going to massacre women and children, or did they tell him they are going to remove a person as bad Hitler.
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There were many vets there of all ages and political views. They had a part of the march that was devoted to them. The vets I saw fought in WW2 to the last Gulf war.
And look, for diddly's sake, no-one at these rallies think America (and the UK) is going there to massacre civilians.
Jesus, it's not anti-American to disagree.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Jesus, it's not anti-American to disagree.
I'm disturbed, quite frankly, at how often this fact is lost on some of the members of this forum. Protest and disagreement are as American as apple pie. There's nothing more American, in my opinion, than organizing and demonstrating in support of or against some issue or policy.
Regardless of my thoughts about the merits of the positions taken by the anti-war protestors, I'd defend to my death their right to express their views. There's nothing anti-American about it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Would you defend to the death the right of any Iraqi to express his views too?
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Would you defend to the death the right of any Iraqi to express his views too?
Ah, I see someone has attempted to lump me in with those whose rights to protest I'm defending. Don't construe my support for free expression with support for the views expressed.
Let's turn the question around and ask... what would Saddam think of millions of people protesting against his regime? I bet he'd find it anti-Iraqi.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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DMF no one said these folks cant "protest" but demonizing the "opposition" has been apart of America as well.
Reading some of the placards that these "protesters" carried through out the world show they arent above the very things we see some post on this board.
One could say this type of polarization is as American as apple pie. From the very 1st political dissagreement to the present.
So go ahead and excersize your right to free expression, but be prepared that if you stand up to speak someone maybe prepared to "bash you in the mouth" (verbally ofcourse) so you dont stand up again. As a matter of fact its the guy who keeps standing up who shows the most character.
So those like gruen who label these folks as "War Protestor Degenerates" are full filling their duty as good Americans.
;)
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the problem lies in the fact its one-side ..
media eats it up
you can't have a "war rally"
fact is more ppl support this govs actions/plan with iraq than oppose it, just those that oppose get face time on the tube....
funny thing is, not funny really, if the US just stood back and did nothing and wmd were used in the near future, the US would be blamed for NOT acting .. dam if we do, dam if we don't
peace is a wonderful thing, when it doesn't work, war will.. that is where we are at now. We gave peace a chance, please step aside and let us finish what peace couldn't.
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Originally posted by Eagler
the problem lies in the fact its one-side ..
media eats it up
you can't have a "war rally"
Why not?
1 guy did in london. Slightly outnumbered though.
Some placards you wont see
"Screw the UN, invade now"
"Bombs, not Jobs."
"Blood for Oil"
I mean, people feel strongly enough right?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/16/sprj.irq.protests/index.html
Death to Amreeka!
out of that article
Jackson, a veteran U.S. civil-rights activist, warned that if a U.S.-led coalition attacks Iraq without the blessing of the United Nations, "we'll lose the moral authority to challenge China not to attack Taiwan, or Pakistan, India, or India, Pakistan."
He really believes chinas morals are keeping them from attacking?
Jesse never has had a brain.
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lol Bounder
Eagler, you might have a majority support in your country, but definitely not over here. Only 10% support a war that has no UN mandate.
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Jeebus Christ, I will volunteer for the Army and run over those hippie protestors with a tank myself!
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Originally posted by Dowding
lol Bounder
Eagler, you might have a majority support in your country, but definitely not over here. Only 10% support a war that has no UN mandate.
Basing that on an opinion poll then?
The problem with public opinion is that it shifts extremely much within short timeframes. The problem with opinion polls is you can control the answer by formulating the question.
I guarantee you that I could formulate a question, without lying or fabricating anything, to the UK public that would have the opposite numbers i e 90-10 in favour of war.
There is a reason we dont have elections every week you know.
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That's based on many different opinion polls from many sources. Of course, you have to take them with a pinch of salt... but...
... I'd agree with them. No-one I know wants to see a war without UN mandate. It has been quite surprising.
You don't live here, Hortlund, you have no appreciation for the depth of feeling over this in my part of the world. Don't be so judge-mental.
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Originally posted by Dowding
That's based on many different opinion polls from many sources. Of course, you have to take them with a pinch of salt... but...
... I'd agree with them. No-one I know wants to see a war without UN mandate. It has been quite surprising.
You don't live here, Hortlund, you have no appreciation for the depth of feeling over this in my part of the world. Don't be so judge-mental.
You will excuse me if I disregard your personal opinons as ...personal opinions.
Your part of the world? Europe huh? Hmm..now where am I living...
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What's with the stuttering comprehension skills, Hortlund?
In my original post, I was talking about how 10% of the UK population (i.e. people from the UK) support war without UN backing. Guess what, when I'm talking about 'here', I just might be referring to the UK once again! Fancy that!
You will excuse me if I disregard your personal opinons as ...personal opinions.
So you disregard the personal opinions of the British public no matter what they are? Why exactly are you discussing them then?
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What Im trying to say is this:
1) I dont trust the polls claiming that only 10% support a war without a new resolution. I think the questions can be formulated in a way that dictates the answer. Basing foreign policy on ppinion polls is *really* dumb.
2) Your personal opinions are just that, and since opinions are like amazinhunks...well you get the idea.
3) There is no such thing as one personal opinion of the British public. 8 million inhabitants in London = 8 million different personal opinions. Your attempt to interpret the public opinion and the "personal opinions of the british public" is ludicrous at best. Prove that you are right without citing opinion polls...good luck.
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Grasping at straws, I see. Who ever said anything about setting foreign policy solely by public opinion?
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Originally posted by davidpt40
Jeebus Christ, I will volunteer for the Army and run over those hippie protestors with a tank myself!
David PT40, you seem to be at odds with the fine founding principles of your great country.
Running protestors over in tanks is what the US is fighting against, not for, surely?
Fighting for peace, democracy, the freedom of expression and the right to self determination surely?
Or is the US fighting for the right to quell dissent and public disaproval with tanks and soldiers? I don't believe you.
Maybe you'd feel more at home in the Chinese Red Army, where you really would get the opportunity to run protestors over in tanks.
And who the hell is Jeebus Christ? Some forgotten half brother?
"blessed are the cheesemakers"...
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Grasping at straws, I see. Who ever said anything about setting foreign policy solely by public opinion?
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Well, you seem very keen on motivating your pacifist anti war stance with arguments like "90% of all Brits oppose war", or "only 10% support war without UN backing" etc... make up your mind.
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Oh dear, my pigeon-holing legal-eagle friend (pun might be intended), I think you'll find I'm not a pacifist. But I believe war has to fought on the right grounds and from a strong position. That is not possible at the moment.
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And look, for diddly's sake, no-one at these rallies think America (and the UK) is going there to massacre civilians.
wrong. At least one couple in the rally at our town thinks that.
"I think it's an out-of-sight/out- of-mind kind of thing," Newman said. "I don't think people really think about how brutal a thing war is."
His wife, Justine, added: "I think everybody would be out on this corner right now if we saw firsthand bombs dropping on people's houses."
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They truly believe that the military is going there to deliberately target civilians? Are you sure of that?
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dunno what they believe, only see what they say.
Our bombs are pretty damn accurate nowadays. For a bomb to fall on people's houses, that pretty much has to be intentional. Whether or not that's what they know or believe, I can't tell you. Maybe they only know about WWII bombings and think that's standard fare for the 21st century airstrike.
Do you know how many people's houses were hit by bombs in 1991? I don't.
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Well, there was that bunker was taken out in Baghdad killing a fair few, but most of the fighting was in the desert away from the population.
This war is going to be different. It's going to involve street fighting, and there are no smart bombs to do the dirty work in such conditions. Can you imagine the carnage in the streets of Basra or Baghdad as the Allied forces fight from building to building against the Iraqis? There are going to be civilian casualties, and they could be very extensive.
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How idiotic can you get?
Did you reactionary wind-up dolls ever consider what the opposite of free protest might look like?
Do ya think the world would be a better place without freedom of dissent? (I'd put a rolleyes here, but Animal would think less of me...)
ahhhhh WTH!
:rolleyes:
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Take step back and look Grunherz.... it's people like you that are letting Osma-bin-blah get his merry way.... this is what that SOB wants! He wants the US to goto war and tank our economey,
he wants warmongers to repeat Iraqi propoganda ... you realize you just repeated what an Iraqi newspaper was writeing....
He wants us to pass things like the Patriot act I & II
He wants to make us everything we've fought not to be.
Wake up now or it might be too late.
from a Boulder, CO paper:
"We're about to go to war with a country that hasn't fired a shot at us or anyone else. Our war plan calls for us to "shock and awe" Iraq by smashing 800 cruise missiles into Baghdad in the first 48 hours. That's one every four minutes night and day.
During the last Gulf War, we killed 13,000 civilians directly and another 70,000 died in the aftermath from no water, no food, no electricity, no medical care, etc. I'd like to get rid of Saddam Hussein myself, but how many lives is it worth? And do they get to vote on it?"
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Originally posted by midnight Target
How idiotic can you get?
Did you reactionary wind-up dolls ever consider what the opposite of free protest might look like?
Do ya think the world would be a better place without freedom of dissent? (I'd put a rolleyes here, but Animal would think less of me...)
ahhhhh WTH!
:rolleyes:
Are you saying that it's great to protest but not ok to protest the protest?
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Originally posted by AKIron
Are you saying that it's great to protest but not ok to protest the protest?
hehe..
only if I can protest the protesting of the protest.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Only 10% support a war that has no UN mandate.
I'm afraid I'm in that 10%, after the pig's ear the UN made last time, and how badly they let down the anti-Saddam activists, who were thrown to the dogs.
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Im going to organize a Pro-War March on Washington - whos with me?
(Think the media will cover it?)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Im going to organize a Pro-War March on Washington - whos with me?
(Think the media will cover it?)
Sure, bigtime :D
Regards Blitz