Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on February 17, 2003, 08:07:25 AM
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I say with a democrat admin in the same situation, the turn outs would have been smaller at home here in America.
Mark me in the camp that it was "Anti-Bush", globally speaking too.
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a little bit of of all three.
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hehe, corrected just as you posted.
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Oh absolutely Anti-Bush, they hate him like nothing else. Nothing unnerves the gutless Euro chattering inteligensia than a plain spoken, down to earth american leader with a strong sense of purpose and a will to carry it out. That man is esentially foreign to them and they hate him. Moreover they look down upon him as lacking in intelligence and kindness, which of course merely reflects their trumped up arrogant sense of intellecual superiority and moral rationality - however these are only masks for their truer, deeper, more profound, and ultimately fundemental resentment rising from a sense of impotence to and dependence on american power.
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Or was it pro Iraqi weaponized anthrax ?
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Another rant, Grunherz? Based around roadkill and self-comforting fallacies, as per usual.
You'll find that the people on the British demos came from all walks of life, and of all political persuasions. War veterans, working class, middle class, bringing along their families, people who'd never protested against anything before. You tell me, Grunherz, what brings all these people together? These are people who go from day to day, paying for the house and car and getting on with their lives - they don't have an "arrogant sense of intellecual superiority and moral rationality". That makes me chuckle, you hysterical buffoon.
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Originally posted by Dowding
You tell me, Grunherz, what brings all these people together?
I'm guessing "Global economy threatened with the threat of a Gulf War 2" is what bonds them. At the end of all trails is the mighty Dollar (Euro in your case).
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I say with a democrat admin in the same situation, the turn outs would have been smaller at home here in America.
Mark me in the camp that it was "Anti-Bush", globally speaking too.
Ahoi Rips,
can only speak of Berlin demonstration.Standing at side of the march for about an hour i sah many thousand posters, all was anti bush politic not Anti -America.
Read in the newspaper though, that NPD ( National Democratische Partei Deutschlands = Neo Nazies, who deny Holocaust, and hate America for bein in the Anti-Hitler Coalition) wanted their people to join the march but nobody of them showed up. Better for them as they would have been beated up pretty good :D
Regards Blitz
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So Blitz, why did they call it an "Anti-war" protest? It wasn't...it was "Anti-administration protest". Why not just call it what it was?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm guessing "Global economy threatened with the threat of a Gulf War 2" is what bonds them. At the end of all trails is the mighty Dollar (Euro in your case).
Ahoi Rips,
could have been very easy for us to join the party and get a big piece of the cake.
Instead w'll probably see a lot of economical problems( and german economy is very weak for quite some time now) because bush administration is mad on us. That's the truth.
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
So Blitz, why did they call it an "Anti-war" protest? It wasn't...it was "Anti-administration protest". Why not just call it what it was?
Ahoi rips,
because europe thinking is very differend than America's after two horrible World Wars.
We can't stand that arrogant attitude and behaviour bush administration is showin for about a year when it comes to Iraq war.
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
Ahoi Rips,
could have been very easy for us to join the party and get a big part of the cake.
Instead w'll probably see a lot of economical problems because bush administration is mad on us. That's the truth.
Regards Blitz
Blitz, global economies are already reeling since 9/11...but at least you'll have an "identifiable" enemy to blame it on from here on out (Bush).
I'm betting your perspective would be different if there were a Socialist democrat doing the same thing.
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Protesters in USA - anti-Bush
Protesters elsewhere - anti-USA.
IMHO
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Blitz, global economies are already reeling since 9/11...but at least you'll have an "identifiable" enemy to blame it on from here on out (Bush).
I'm betting your perspective would be different if there were a Socialist democrat doing the same thing.
Nobody is blaming bush for our economy weakness,
its mostly because Germany has horrible costs on east Germany for 10 years now after the communists ruined it all there.
Regards Blitz
Tony is your friend , not mine.
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Originally posted by blitz
Ahoi Rips,
could have been very easy for us to join the party and get a big part of the cake.
Regards Blitz
I might add Blitz, that Germany has repeatedly said it opposes war and will not sanction any new U.N. resolution legitimising the use of force, but a joint declaration it made with France and Russia last week noted military action could not be ruled out.
Be aware of that.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I might add Blitz, that Germany has repeatedly said it opposes war and will not sanction any new U.N. resolution legitimising the use of force, but a joint declaration it made with France and Russia last week noted military action could not be ruled out.
Be aware of that.
I'm not very confident how foolish and clumsy Gerhard Schroeder( never liked him anyways) acted in the last months but bush and his crew aren't any better, and that's for nearly a year now ;)
Regards Blitz
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So Grunherz, what is the opposite of intelligentsia?
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I'll say a little of all the above.
I this type of protests, like in the anti-global ones there are many components, and is too easy to generalize.
A generalization can satisfy a professional hater like Grun or Hort, but not someone that ask himself questions.
So, there are "anti-war", "anti-this-war", "anti-bush", "anti-USA", anti-anything", "let's-have-fun", "I-dont-know-why-but-i-protest", and so on... :)
In Rome they amounted 3 million people. Almost.
A big number, anyway... a record afaik.
They are all dumb idjots commi gay studmuffingot sobs??
I dont know, I dont know them personally.
But they disagree, and have the right to express it, and maybe this was the only way they had to do it, since the media (all of them in Berlusconi's hands) here are ALL pro-war.
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Thats a good point, I think 3/4 were, what I would call "Profi" protesters.
They protest against anything.
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It's hardly just anti-Bush ... he's just the figure head of this twisted ... orginaztion. I'm more like an anti-2-party-goverment kind of guy .... which I've been long before Bush was in office. I just can't trust the Democratic/Republican state. I know too much history.
Go be happy in your fear, nourish it .. one day it will be a Brave New World. That's the cost of "safety"
Let us not throw the first punch...
Oh ya, frist time I protested was Sat. and it was about the war
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Just curious, how many of you think the Protest turn out would have been the same if this was Bosnia, and Bosnia had hidden oil capacity as Iraq does, and it was the Clinton admin?
I, for one, think there would not have been any protests.
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I seem to recall a great deal of anti-war protest occurring during a particular Democratic administration.
I think these were anti-war / anti-Bush policy protests.
I also happen to think the protesters are wrong... go figure huh?
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could you imagine clinton going to war without the support of the UN? or even popular support for that matter? bush is an idiot and i for one dont trust him, but then he isnt really the one in charge. just like reagan wasnt.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I seem to recall a great deal of anti-war protest occurring during a particular Democratic administration.
I think these were anti-war / anti-Bush policy protests.
I also happen to think the protesters are wrong... go figure huh?
Well, here's what gets me... I think the protestors REASONS are wrong..they think its oil, they think its power, they don't believe that the people in Iraq suffer from this regrime(yet 99% of all U.S. Iraqi's will tell you differently). I have no problem with the freedom to demonstrate, just have a good foundation of why you protest. They say "I'm against war" yet they demonstrate against the US foreign policy saying we want power and oil...(shakes head).
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
but then he isnt really the one in charge. just like reagan wasnt.
But Clinton WAS?
Incidently, I don't believe we should go to war without UN approval either..but then again, if we go in alone and find WMD, who's gonna look like an idiot?
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Originally posted by Dowding
Another rant, Grunherz? Based around roadkill and self-comforting fallacies, as per usual.
You'll find that the people on the British demos came from all walks of life, and of all political persuasions. War veterans, working class, middle class, bringing along their families, people who'd never protested against anything before. You tell me, Grunherz, what brings all these people together? These are people who go from day to day, paying for the house and car and getting on with their lives - they don't have an "arrogant sense of intellecual superiority and moral rationality". That makes me chuckle, you hysterical buffoon.
That is an accurate discription of the Australian protesters last weekend, but no-one calls us gutless?
Must be a special anti-euro thing.
Tronsky
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There was a poll result here in Spain today regarding why were people demonstrating (more than 3 million here in Spain).
Most people (like 85% or so) didn't believe that demonstrating against Bush Jr's intent to go to war meant going against the USA.
Most people were against the idea of war being the only solution and didn't want the involvement of Spain in this war unless there was a UN resolution stating the necessity of a military action.
IMO, no one (perhaps a very small minority) is against the USA here.
Daniel
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No, I dont think there where any Anti-American demonstrators. There where only anti US-Government demonstrators and I salute them. Why?
Cause I dont like ANY instance that tries to force his opinion upon someone. This is a kind of dictatorship and as a german i hate dictatorship. All the foreign policy diplomatic culture was lost as Mr. Bush and his vassels where elected.
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Originally posted by Duedel
No, I dont think there where any Anti-American demonstrators. There where only anti US-Government demonstrators and I salute them. Why?
Cause I dont like ANY instance that tries to force his opinion upon someone. This is a kind of dictatorship and as a german i hate dictatorship. All the foreign policy diplomatic culture was lost as Mr. Bush and his vassels where elected.
So, what about Saddam, Dictator in the worse sense, with weapons he wants to use/sell on us via terrorists...
Ya pay now, or ya pay later...but the "bill" ain't gonna disappear..
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Yeah Rip there u have a valid point. Thats was one negative thing. The demonstrators totally focussed on the US government and forgot Mr. Hussein.
I would have them much more if they had seen both sides.
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The thing about the protestors is that if the CIA, MI6, or Mosad (sp?) could kill/capture Saddam without going to war, I'm pretty sure most (me included) would definitely be very happy.
Bear in mind that many demonstrators were iraqis who would pay anything to be able to go back to their country...
Daniel
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
could you imagine clinton going to war without the support of the UN? or even popular support for that matter? bush is an idiot and i for one dont trust him, but then he isnt really the one in charge. just like reagan wasnt.
Get your facts straight ya putz....Bosnia ring a bell? Humanitarian effort ring a bell?
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
There was a poll result here in Spain today regarding why were people demonstrating (more than 3 million here in Spain).
Most people (like 85% or so) didn't believe that demonstrating against Bush Jr's intent to go to war meant going against the USA.
Most people were against the idea of war being the only solution and didn't want the involvement of Spain in this war unless there was a UN resolution stating the necessity of a military action.
IMO, no one (perhaps a very small minority) is against the USA here.
Daniel
Is the only solution 12 more years of ignored resolutions? The UN talks a good game....talk is cheap. It's ok for more Americans to die while you carry signs.
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Originally posted by Duedel
No, I dont think there where any Anti-American demonstrators. There where only anti US-Government demonstrators and I salute them. Why?
Cause I dont like ANY instance that tries to force his opinion upon someone. This is a kind of dictatorship and as a german i hate dictatorship. All the foreign policy diplomatic culture was lost as Mr. Bush and his vassels where elected.
Foreign policy diplomatic culture? Oh, is that where we all stand around and kiss each others rear ends and everything stays the same? Is that the land of no tough choices?
There's a time and a place for diplomacy. This is not the time nor the place.
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last i checked bosnia was supported by nato,un, and had popular support.
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The thing about the protestors is that if the CIA, MI6, or Mosad (sp?) could kill/capture Saddam without going to war, I'm pretty sure most (me included) would definitely be very happy. -Cyrano
Wouldn't that be great. I'd love it if it could be this way. And maybe it can, though I won't hold my breath. But it would have to be a few more than just Saddam.
Did the USA get rid of that law (or whatever you call it) put in place by G Ford where we can't go after heads-of-state?
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This is what we do to anti-AMERICAN protestors in this country. ;)
(http://members.tccoa.com/bigscott/Cougie/Hondog.jpg)
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In the case of Spain, the protests were pathelicaly politized and became "Anti-Our president", "Anti-Bush" and, sadly, no protests "Anti-Sadam". The protests were focused on both, Aznar and Bush, not on americans.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
This is what we do to anti-AMERICAN protestors in this country. ;)
if it's not a joke I'm very affraid of the state of democratia and freedom of though in USA :(
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Originally posted by straffo
if it's not a joke I'm very affraid of the state of democratia and freedom of though in USA :(
Straffo quit being a shrecking drama queen.
You should be more concerned with Chiraq and his banishment of the new EU members from the summit in Brussels. What was it he said? They must be punished for their illoyalty? They missed a great opportunity to shut up? FFS that is the most arrogant shrecking BS I have ever heard from a political leader.
What little respect I had left for the french vanished when I saw that on tv last night...combined with his arrogant smile.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
What little respect I had left for the french vanished when I saw that on tv last night...combined with his arrogant smile.
After spending megabit of bandwith bashing french citizen and country you expect me to trust you ?
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Originally posted by straffo
After spending megabit of bandwith bashing french citizen and country you expect me to trust you ?
Dude, what ever I or anyone has ever said about the French...
after last night you earned it.
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So in america every american is a walking talking george bush clone, and in sweden everyone is liable to what Gerhard Lauck might say if he gets on TV news.
Yeah, like in france everyone loves Chirac.
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Who the he** is "Gerhard Lauck"?
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NSDAP/AO ?
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Originally posted by moot
NSDAP/AO ?
huh?
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Ok you don't know that guy, Mikael Jansson?
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Originally posted by Naso
A generalization can satisfy a professional hater like Grun or Hort, but not someone that ask himself questions.
A professional hater incapable of asking himself questions?
I have yet to see you argue a point successfully Naso..is that the reason for the personal attacks?
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Originally posted by moot
Ok you don't know that guy, Mikael Jansson?
wtf are you on drugs?
We have almost 9 million inhabitants you know...so you'll have to excuse me if I dont know them all.
Maybe you had a point to all this...?
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Yeah I had a point but if you need a magnifying glass to see it it's probably like you said once about not being explainable if needed asked.
The first sentence was the same point as the second sentence which paraphrased it into swedish context, as the first one paraphrased a french context.
Gerhard Lauck was(~95 or sth)/is leader of some swedish NS party, somewhat like Mikael Jansson who's SD party made something like 1% of the votes over there.
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Originally posted by Rude
Foreign policy diplomatic culture? Oh, is that where we all stand around and kiss each others rear ends and everything stays the same? Is that the land of no tough choices?
There's a time and a place for diplomacy. This is not the time nor the place.
So u think its time for what? War? A war where no one can tell what'll happen after it? Rude do u really think u can tell when its time for war or diplomacy?
If the UN say yes than u can have ur war. But until than i would suggest the USA calm down and dont act like a big imperialist. Cause that may cause hate arround the world and i guess thats not what u want.
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But until than i would suggest the USA calm down and dont act like a big imperialist. Cause that may cause hate arround the world and i guess thats not what u want.
then you are told:
Nothing unnerves the gutless Euro chattering inteligensia than a plain spoken, down to earth american leader with a strong sense of purpose and a will to carry it out. That man is esentially foreign to them and they hate him. Moreover they look down upon him as lacking in intelligence and kindness, which of course merely reflects their trumped up arrogant sense of intellecual superiority and moral rationality - however these are only masks for their truer, deeper, more profound, and ultimately fundemental resentment rising from a sense of impotence to and dependence on american power.
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Originally posted by moot
Yeah I had a point but if you need a magnifying glass to see it it's probably like you said once about not being explainable if needed asked.
The first sentence was the same point as the second sentence which paraphrased it into swedish context, as the first one paraphrased a french context.
Gerhard Lauck was(~95 or sth)/is leader of some swedish NS party, somewhat like Mikael Jansson who's SD party made something like 1% of the votes over there.
wow...you know more about Swedish extreme right organizations than I do.
Anyway, I think there is a difference between saying all Swedes are like some neo nazi who has less than 0.05% popular support, and saying all French are like Chiraq who has something like 80-90% popular support in this issue.
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1) those % numbers are from opinion polls, no comment needed on this.
2) even if they opt (not prefer) to give "voice" to Chirac it doesn't mean they wouldnt give their voice to another if there was one. remember the last french presidentials weren't exactly a choice after the first turn, nor a real poll of the whole population when you look at the vote distribution and >importantly abstention numbers at the first turn.
and edit btw the guy got not .05 but 1% of voices.
edit of the edit: anyway the point wasn't numbers but putting french population in the same bag as chirac // americans in the same bag as Bush ( -> burning JWBush effigies in protests) // putting a leader as perfect representation of all the country's people.
edit of the edit of the edit: the real point of 2) was originally that even if you give "support" in an opinion poll it also doesn't show anything but a forced yes or no.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
This is what we do to anti-AMERICAN protestors in this country. ;)
(http://members.tccoa.com/bigscott/Cougie/Hondog.jpg)
Bash their cars, beat 'em up, hang 'em if nothing other helped.
That's what i call the right of free speech.
Regards Blitz
America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Who the he** is "Gerhard Lauck"?
Gerry Lauck is an american Nazi guy spending all his time to deny Holocaust and sending his nazi propaganda material to europe neo nazi scum. Livin in Nebraska if i recall it right.
Regards Blitz