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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: najdorf on February 17, 2003, 10:09:55 AM

Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: najdorf on February 17, 2003, 10:09:55 AM
I don't know if this is a generally accepted fact in the game or if I am simply off kilter on this but recently I've been flying the La5 and have notice that it really seems to own the P-51.

I have about 6 or 7 kills of the P51 in this plane and have only been killed once and that was against multiple 51's.  The La5 seems to have more speed, at least on wep and better maneuverability.  P51 always tries to run, by the time he figures out he's not outrunning me he tries to maneuver.  I just wait till he goes into a flat turn and poof, no more P51.

Only problem with this ride is long distance shooting, P51 has much better guns.  No point in shooting anything farther out than D325 at least for me.

Anyway, what do I know, I'm just a stupid trial lawyer spending time at work talking about a game in which I'm a member of a Japanese squadron who likes to fly Russian planes in his spare time to kill American planes.  Somebody sue my parents, God I'm screwed up!
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Ghosth on February 17, 2003, 10:16:39 AM
Your in good company sir!

Love the russian planes myself.

Personally I had 2 uncles who were bombed (BB California in pearl) or shot at & wounded (Army engineer corp running a D6 Catipillar on several islands in pacific.)

Meantime when I discovered WWII online flight sims I turned into a zeke fanatic for 4 years.

Everyones a little crazy now & then  :)
Title: Re: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Fariz on February 17, 2003, 10:39:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf
The La5 seems to have more speed, at least on wep and better maneuverabilit


You sure you fly la5, not la7? :) La5 is slower that p51s at any alt, unless p51 low, heavy and out of wep.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: GunnerCAF on February 17, 2003, 10:57:24 AM
Welcome to the club :)

The P51 is a bad plane to be in at low alt with low energy.  The LA5 and LA7 come up to speed quickly and are fast at low alt.  I like the LA7 for low alt fighting.

If the P51 keeps his energy high when diving in on low LA7s, he stands a good chance of pulling away.

Gunner
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: najdorf on February 17, 2003, 10:59:29 AM
P51 is 9 miles per hour faster on the deck.  I've been diving on 51's that have just come out of dive and are trying to extend away from furball.  I come in with high speed and slight alt advantage.  I usually catch up to them before the speed difference makes a difference.

I think most of the P51 drivers expect to pull away quickly when they see the La5 icon and panick when it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 17, 2003, 11:42:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf

Anyway, what do I know, I'm just a stupid trial lawyer spending time at work talking about a game in which I'm a member of a Japanese squadron who likes to fly Russian planes in his spare time to kill American planes.  Somebody sue my parents, God I'm screwed up!


LOL - you are not alone, sir!  :D

(just wait until you start hanging up posters of aircraft in your office)
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: SKurj on February 17, 2003, 11:50:44 AM
Well take yer la5 over 20k and fight a 51 +)



SKurj
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Shane on February 17, 2003, 11:57:59 AM
or run into a p51 driver who actually knows how to handle the p51 slow.

:D
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: najdorf on February 17, 2003, 12:51:13 PM
Most likely end to that would be me fertilizing the countryside.  But I prefer to fight the inept and live.
Title: Re: Re: La5 vs. P51
Post by: slimm50 on February 17, 2003, 12:51:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
(just wait until you start hanging up posters of aircraft in your office)

You mean like this?
(http://kepha.ns2000.net/webs/W0210101/upload/planewall.jpg)
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Ouch on February 17, 2003, 01:05:01 PM
Yeah, but I bet I have more models i my office than you do!

6 P-38's
2 F4U
1 P-61
1 Liberator
1 P-51
1 Spit
1 Zero
1 ME262
1 Tiger
1 Stug
1 unknown german AFV
2 Katyuskas(Sp?  russian rocket trucks)
3 F14 tomcats
~8 soldiers

Ouch out.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: slimm50 on February 17, 2003, 01:44:38 PM
Ouch, you prolly do, but I showed only 1 wall. The other 3 are covered, as well...then there's the computer room in my house, with it's obligatory posters, and, of course, the plastic models suspended by monofiliment from the ceiling.:D
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: poopster on February 17, 2003, 02:13:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by slimm50
the plastic models suspended by monofiliment from the ceiling.:D


Hehe, my livingroom has the 1/16th Corsair, P38, Mustang and the 109 from Ultimate along with a Tiger Tank and the Huey whistling toejam can..

Atop my computer I have Dragons 12 inch "little nazis" and officer and a machine gunner..

And in the top of my "lawyers" bookcase :) I have my Ultimate tiny-winie nazis
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid14/p62ab01bbba81bbb3fee5f8a9eea5205e/fddcfe67.jpg)

Never can have too many little nazis :D

[edit] and this thread has been officially hijacked[/edit]
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: wetrat on February 17, 2003, 02:15:45 PM
P51 > La5
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: MotorOil on February 17, 2003, 02:22:03 PM
La5 is a match for the 51.  I have many 51 kills in my La5.  Like any plane in a dive, you can catch a 51, if he's forced to move you can out turn a 51.

La5 is an underestimated plane, it accelerates fast, holds speed not too bad and can turn well.  Drawbacks are the low armament.  You need to be close to be effective and there isn't enough ammo to spray and pray for very long.  I use this plane for defensive purposes.  Great dogfighter at low alts.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: BNM on February 17, 2003, 02:26:43 PM
La-5 is a good ride. If the P-51 is flown correctly tho, the La-5 is toast plain and simple.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Steve on February 17, 2003, 03:15:49 PM
Naj,
Congrats, first of all, on your successes :)   .
Escaping an la5 while flying a pony at high speed  is remarkably easy.  If you're fast and on my 6, a simple aggressive break turn  approaching 90 degrees will cause you too bleed off mucho E as you try to follow, and then you will fall behind as I make my escape.  If you don't have help in the area and I feel like killing you, I'll  use my high speed manueverability to work to a snap or 6 shot and put you down..all the while maintaining enough E to break off if I see ya have help coming.  The pony that tries to simply extend straight from a closing foe is passing up on the pony's best attribute: high speed handling. If you were in an la7.. it's a different ball game.. try to get you slow as possible.. but if you have one of those rare, talented la7 sticks on your 6(while in a pony)... anyone's chance of survival under the aforementioned circumstances is less than good.
BTW Naj, I checked this tour's numbers to see if my pony had met your la5.  P51D:2 ,  LA5: 0

!
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: WldThing on February 17, 2003, 03:33:50 PM
Quote
Escaping an la5 while flying a pony at high speed is remarkably easy.


Why run?

P-51 Running is for wimps that dont think they can handle the La5 either low or high.  Sticking around will teach every 51 pilot out there what a P-51 can do.

Quote
The pony that tries to simply extend straight from a closing foe is passing up on the pony's best attribute: high speed handling


High speed handling if you want your wings torn away from your plane.  The best thing that the P-51 has is Low Speed Handling IMO.

My 2 cents..
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Urchin on February 17, 2003, 03:37:11 PM
P-51 will entirely own a La5 or an La7 in a stallfight.  Best thing the La-X can do is keep the fight in the vertical- superior acceleration translates into better vertical performance.  You try to flat turn or scissor with a P-51 in an La-X, the P-51 should win easily.  That said, the pilot has to know that the P-51 can actually stallfight, most don't.
Title: Re: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Jackal1 on February 17, 2003, 03:42:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by najdorf

Anyway, what do I know, I'm just a stupid trial lawyer spending time at work talking about a game in which I'm a member of a Japanese squadron who likes to fly Russian planes in his spare time to kill American planes.  Somebody sue my parents, God I'm screwed up! [/B]


Yea, your right! Being a trial lawyer is screwed up. Seek help now while you still have a chance.:D
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Steve on February 17, 2003, 03:53:40 PM
Wldthing, as I implied, I'd leave an la5 if he had help with him or on they way.  If I could get him without being bounced, I'd stick around and kill him...I never said or implied that I'd run... merely that I could if I wanted to.  And as far as high speed handling.. well through trial and error... I've learned the 51's tolerances and can now do those high speed ACM's without ripping(mostly hehehe).  Other planes that compress(g10 i.e) or have big radials on their nose(la5) simply can't hang with a fast pony, as I know you are well aware of.  Urch, I love stall fightin the pony... I've learned that this ALMOST always catches your opponent off guard, cut in and force a stall fight... you usually have a surprised opponent...Unfortunately a stall fighting pony is high on the target of opportunity list so I avoid knife fighting in crowds.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: maxtor on February 17, 2003, 04:14:27 PM
I don't fly any of these planes But aside from the personal impressions, there are the overall numbers:

La-5FN 2111 kills 1891 death 1.12 k/d
P-51B 1430 kills 1313 deaths 1.09 k/d
P-51D 16409 kills 17568 death 0.93 k/d

and

The P-51D has 134 kills and has been killed 181 times against the La-5FN.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Steve on February 17, 2003, 04:23:50 PM
Max, numbers don't lie...but one could argue that every noob/jabo dweeb climbs in a pony first off and gets his feet wet. That argument aside... I feel that the p51D is used far more in attack runs than the la5 and that this DOES skew the numbers some. I'm sure there are some very good la5 pilots out there.  Just for the sake of argument... let's assume I have attained the level of "average" p51d pilot.  for the same time that you have quoted kill comparisons of the la5 and ponies, my p51d: 4, LA5:0
My point is opinion only, and not meant to sound combative: your average p51 pilot should beat your average la5 pilot.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: WldThing on February 17, 2003, 04:41:11 PM
So your saying that you would engage a lone P-51 in the MA?
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Steve on February 17, 2003, 04:51:25 PM
I would..unless I could come up with a better way to create his demise.  As an example, I had high P51  and friends trail me out of an area where I had been roping low bogies. Shortly, everyone but the 51 dropped off.. he trailed me for several sectors, high on my 6.  I had a squaddie vector over and engage him.  It took both of us to kill him as he was a very skilled p51 stick. in fact, he was so good that I had to come within inches of giving him a shot on my climbing 6 to get him killed by my wingie. Had I not had this option, I probably would have at least engaged him long enough to determine if I could get the better of him,  considering my inferior E state.  If it turned out that I was unable to overcome this, I'd probably look for a way out.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: WldThing on February 17, 2003, 04:56:21 PM
I believe the P-51 was at your alt, he was not higher.  You wouldnt have the inferior E state if the P-51 had been higher than you.

Quote
Had I not had this option, I probably would have at least engaged him long enough to determine if I could get the better of him, considering my inferior E state. If it turned out that I was unable to overcome this, I'd probably look for a way out.


I dont see a point where you have to have an advantage over someone to actually kill them.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: poopster on February 17, 2003, 06:02:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WldThing
So your saying that you would engage a lone P-51 in the MA?


I'll engage ANYBODY alone in the MA regardless of altitude.

Steve can attest to that.

Good shot that Steve dude..

I lose some, win some others..

Good fights though, that's why I'm here :)

When you suck down that high guy and kill'um it gives me a woodie..
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Karnak on February 17, 2003, 06:02:59 PM
najdorf,

Try the Yak-9U.  That thing dominates P-51s in my experience.  It does a good job on La-7s as well.:D

There was one day that Keyapaha and I were fighting over the lake on Mindano and I bagged 9 P-51s in two flights for no losses.  And it was all easy.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Steve on February 17, 2003, 06:04:38 PM
I never said I had to have the advantage. But if dragging an opponent to a teammate is the most expeditious means available, why not?  Are you saying you never use teammates, never set them up for shots?  In the scenario I mentioned, it was the most efficient way to kill the bad guy. I was carrying several pelts, and had marginally low ammo. My odds of defeating him with help were much greater than beating his E superior plane 1v1. I guess if you are trying to lead me down a path where you can jump on me for running or not fighting 1v1 on other's terms all the time, you can stop here.. go ahead.. call me a runner. If I were truly a runner... I'd have a much higher K/D.  Your opinion of me may be somewhat different, but I do not engage only when I have the advantage.  And yes.. if the other pony was higher, I would have been at an inferior E state.  If the pony was coalt, I would have had to reverse to engage, and thus  I would have also been at an inferior E state.  Most people, once they determine they are going to lose a fight, try to disengage to either re-merge or escape....just about everyone.  
We are a bit off topic here so I'll repeat: I think the average p51 will, more often than not, defeat the average la5.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: TheManx on February 17, 2003, 06:10:17 PM
P51 should win at either advantage or disadvantage. 1 on 1, it's just the better plane. The pilots are what sometimes give the Pony a bad name, as there are a lot out there who don't really know what it's capable of.
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: aknimitz on February 17, 2003, 06:14:01 PM
Below 10K, I'll take the La5. Above 10K, I'll take the P51 :)

Nim
Title: La5 vs. P51
Post by: Thorns on February 17, 2003, 09:02:15 PM
Hmm, it's been said, "it's not all plane, and it's not all pilot."

Someone who knows his plane, and the weakness of his opponent, I'll put my money on him.

I love my pony.  I use to fly only Russian planes with the squad I was with.  Try a rolling scissors on that ol' La5, get him on the back side of a roll, dump the flaps, hit the wep, he flys in front, and bye bye potato drinker.  :D

Thorns