Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on October 06, 2001, 07:04:00 PM
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Tour 20 Fighter Stats (http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Tour20/Tour20.htm)
The Fighter Vs Fighter and % stats are on the last 3 pages.
Sorry it took so long to get out, but when HTC does something as inconsiderate as release 6 new planes... I have to make adjustments.
AKDejaVu
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As Always your effort is greatly appreicated! :D
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WTG DejaVu, S!
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WTG FW-190 flyers!!
FW-190A-5 has kill/death ratio of 1.4! :)
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LOL OMG the SpitV is getting soo much use.
Its utterly amazing that the worst and least competitive vs contemporary enemy (109F and 190A) of all Spit models gets so much use.
Boy oh boy that tell a lot about AH style turn fighting prevalence. And its a late 1941 model to boot. :)
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Can we have an admission by those that told us that the perk system would not encourage a more varied arena,or that it wouldnt encourage the use of older models, that they were WRONG?
hmmm i very much doubt it.
Remember the 'Why perk my f4uc!' and the 'I love the f4uc and now i cant fly it' crap?
while we said you can still fly it and that it needed to be controlled so that its use falls more in line with other models.
Well check the stats out.
It sure looks to me as if its worked.8 perks seems to have been a good estimate doesnt it.
<S> AKDV for another good stat page.
[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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Hmm... 2 planes account for almost 30% of all usage and that's variety? Look at all the planes that are used in the 2% range, is that variety to you? do you feel better being beaten by a hogC if it is rare? I conceed that planes that don't belong in the arena like the 262 are "better" if they are very rare but they it still sucks if your the one who is unlucky enough to have to dodge one. A planes ability is slightly diminished if people can't afford to fly it much and get good in it. other than that... a wolf in amongst the sheep is allways unfair.
Certainly, any number of systems would be better than the idiotic perk system?
lazs
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Hmm... 2 planes account for almost 30% of all usage and that's variety?
And this is the fault of the perk system how lazs? Jeez bud... quit your fricking squeaking. The only real way to lessen the % of the top aircraft is to introduce more aircraft period. Wether perked or unperked, it promotes variety. Unfortunately, it also means that some aircraft will be used even less.
Look at the stats and check out the dominance of the perked planes. They are barely used at all... but they are there if people want them. And if people hate to see them so much then why the hell do the stop whatever they are doing to engage them in 10:1 battles. Truth be told, you hate to see them because you know everyone else loves it. It disrupts the type of fun that you want to have because people act downright stupid when they see them. Of course, you'd word it like that but then you'd have to admit being a field general yourself. Not really wanting to admit telling people what to do... just coming here and criticizing it in general.
Its getting very old lazs.
AKDejaVu
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Spot on AKDV.Laz , What a perfect oppertunity to say 'ok the stats show mch more usage of different models' but you deny what the stats show! look at how much the 109f4,the spit5 and 202 have been used this tour.I cant remember the last time my stats showed a 109f4 kill but ive seen them this time round.
Yes 2 planes are dominating a little but thats still better than 1 and thats IS still more varied than 1.Laz do you struggle in the maths class? I know all those little coloured bricks you have to stack can really be a squeak, especially when they fall down and you have to start again :D
Just take a second to compare the amount of use the 109f4,spit5,202,zero and the f4ud( :)) have had this tour compared to much earlier when we had no perk system or since the f4uc got perked.
I think i have seen and fought a much more varied enemy myself.there was hardly a time i fought the 109f4 before the perk system was started but last 2 tours ive fought 8 or so.
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didn't see the 190a8 listed in fighter v fighter chart but was easy to figure out.
wtg dejavu
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didn't see the 190a8 listed in fighter v fighter chart but was easy to figure out.
It's there... right between the c.205 and Ki-61.
AKDejaVu
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Excellent Work!
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Great job and thank you as always Deja :)
btw, you still doing the top 10 killers and K/D ratio stats? always looked forward to seeing who made the top 10. Thanks again man <S>
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Actually, although I'm a big one to squeak about the lack of diversity in the MA- I gotta agree with Deja here. I really do think it is getting a tad more 'diverse' as time goes on, and it will only get better as HTC adds new planes. I don't see (in the future) most of these new planes getting a whole lot of use (except maybe the Mossie), but they give people more choices. I've taken up flying the F4 as a hobby (lol), it is a nice little plane. Slower than hell and totally outmatched by the SpitIX, but still pretty nice.
I've given up trying to browbeat people into 'diversifying' the MA, now I'm trying to do it myself.
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<S> AKDJV. Great Work, love the page tabs!
--------------------
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
56th Firebirds "Fighter" Squadron RAF.
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/56sig.gif)
[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: Gremlin ]
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Great presentation! How's it done? (is that Excell-XP or something?)
Will you be updating the "Top killers" page?, that seems to have died after tour 18.
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It's simple enough deja. I would like a little more parity without perking everything on down to the spit one or buffallo when they come out. Either way.. the perk system itself is neither cause nor cure for the problem.
The problem is mixing late or uber planes in with lesser planes. The problem is also... How do we introduce early war planes? It seems the set is stuck... painted itself into a corner.
Now... If never having early war planes in the arena is ok with you then I guess you have a point. If two planes being used allmost thirty percent of the time is fine with you then I guess it is working. If most planes being used 2% of the time is a good thing to you... If some planes that are used very rarely have the highest K/D ratio and that seems ok to you...
If all that is considerd "working" to you then we will never understand each other. Still...
I'm curious... how would you introduce planes like the P40 and the Spit one in the current arena and perk system? A person could choose a P51, hellcat, corsair, nik, spit9 or a P40 for the same cost... He would certainly see all those other planes in the arena if he chose the P40. some may choose the P40 out of perversity but it would be a rare person who did well and that same person would do better in something else.
Allso... I have no idea how you think... it is obvious that you have none about how I think. As for me being a "general" and telling people what to fly..... LOL, well.... yes.. I would tell people that they couldn't fly jets against prop planes and that they couldn't fly P51's against P40's or hurri ones. Sorry... I want a level (or as level as possible) a playing field. making unfair fights rare does not make them any more fair.... just more rare.
I want the most parity and variety I can get.. Is that too difficult for you to understand?
lazs
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The f6f stats are totaly off due to me flying it prodomitly, if i would choose another plane it would more than likely sore to the top of the K:d ratio list.. :D
but im going to continue to fly it, so better luck next tour f6f pilots lol
*Edit stupid smileys!*
[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]
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"And this is the fault of the perk system how lazs? Jeez bud... quit your fricking squeaking. The only real way to lessen the % of the top aircraft is to introduce more aircraft period. Wether perked or unperked, it promotes variety. Unfortunately, it also means that some aircraft will be used even less."
That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard you say. How would that work? You mean every plane that is used one half of one percent takes that much away from the two or 3 planes that are used more than i/3 of the time? Well.... I don't consider killing some lameo who happens to choose the wrong plane for one reason or another, to be "variety" but..... even if it is considered "variety" in your opinion.... What would you do about parity? That certainly isn't parity. Being able to choose a plane that is severly outmatched by the average arena plane is no choice at all.
lazs
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btw, you still doing the top 10 killers and K/D ratio stats? always looked forward to seeing who made the top 10. Thanks again man <S>
The Top 10 stats will return.. they are just on hold until some things can be worked out with HTC. It seems my querries were causing a bit of a hit on their server and I don't want that to happen. Unfortunately, they've been a tad bit busy with 1.08 and the upcoming con. I think things may start rolling after that... or at least I'm going to wait till then to chat with HiTech again.
As for you Laz...
What you want is for everyone in the arena to be replaced with you. That way everyone will fly what you want them to fly and the way you want them to fly. This will make life for you that much more enjoyable.
That is the only way you are going to get any kind of parity AND selection. The perk system was introduced as a means to allow high-end aircraft without them dominating the arena. Would you say that has worked so far Lazs? I believe it has.
The rest is simply human nature. Take it or leave it... just don't come here and squeak about it every day with the same old VERY tired argument.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by hazed-:
Can we have an admission by those that told us that the perk system would not encourage a more varied arena,or that it wouldnt encourage the use of older models, that they were WRONG?
hmmm i very much doubt it.
Remember the 'Why perk my f4uc!' and the 'I love the f4uc and now i cant fly it' crap?
while we said you can still fly it and that it needed to be controlled so that its use falls more in line with other models.
Well check the stats out.
It sure looks to me as if its worked.8 perks seems to have been a good estimate doesnt it.
<S> AKDV for another good stat page.
[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
hazed,
Do you think they don't fly it because they are afraid to lose the points, or because it makes everyone else magneticly drawn to kill the Perk birds, or perhaps because they don't have enough time to develop the skill required to pad their perk account.
Personally, my best K/D ratio has always been in the C Hog and tour 20 is a great example of that.
4/1 in that beautiful bird, and I don't fly very cautiously!
It's just a shame that a Tempest driver (which I wish I could be) falls victim to that big bellybutton TEMP (IM A PERK, COME GET ME) banner that it tows around the arena. Same holds true for the Ta152, Ar234, etc.
I am 110% against the perk system.
I see it like this: You have the money to support your favorite car (Lets say a Ferrari). So you buy it, insure it, liscense it, and put it in the garage because you are only alowed to drive it if you earn enough positive driving points.
You MUST earn these points because the last 1,000 Ferrari owners have been caught exceding the posted speed limits more often than any other car on the road.
The perk system just doesn't do a fair job of simulating realism.
Viper
BTW, Great Job Deja!
[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: Sky Viper ]
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LOL Perks help.
NOT!!!
Check this out: LINK (http://www.siteviper.com/stats/KtoD20.htm)
I did a quick sort on the fighter data for Tour 20. Descending order by K/D+1 ratio.
The perk fighters occupy the top 3 slots for all the fighters!!!
LOL
Viper
[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: Sky Viper ]
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Shouldnt they have the best K:d though Viper?
they are perked just for that reason, and for historical value. I think the over all ratios only show more that they need perked, what if there were only 40 kills 10 deaths in a 152? thats 4:1 sounds good but you got the SpitIX with 1400 kills 600 deaths(example).. Much larger area for error.
Of course the superior air craft should have a better K:d ratio, better air craft for one and they got better pilots at the stick normaly, until i hop in a F4C and ruin the numbers. :cool:
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good work AKDejaVu
I love these stats
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Uh, Viper, that's to be expected. Most people won't fly perk planes in a stupid fashion (but I will). And they're such inherently macho planes they wwill get a lot of kills. So what? Did anybody expect to see a perk fighter with a K/D of under 1?
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Originally posted by Am0n:
Shouldnt they have the best K:d though Viper?
they are perked just for that reason, and for historical value. I think the over all ratios only show more that they need perked, what if there were only 40 kills 10 deaths in a 152? thats 4:1 sounds good but you got the SpitIX with 1400 kills 600 deaths(example).. Much larger area for error.
Of course the superior air craft should have a better K:d ratio, better air craft for one and they got better pilots at the stick normaly, until i hop in a F4C and ruin the numbers. :cool:
Yes, they should have the best K/D, because they are the "Best" planes.
You have a twisted sense of logic in my POV...You say that the overal K/D ratio shows a need for perk, but then you say that a superior fighter should be superior. Make up your mind!
Should it be a superior fighter, or should it be a piece to set on the mantel and coo over?
And Dinger,
I will fly them stupid too! :)
That doesn't change the fact that my best K/D is in the -C ;)
I say that if it's macho, then let it be macho!
Don't force the whines to go from "That C Hog" to "That Ubber Nik" to "That Master Mossy" to whatever is next.
No matter how you try to control it, the whines will come. And since the majority of whiners (like myself) are not the best pilots, you are only punishing the weak by taking the best weapons out of our hands.
I think it's up to the pilot to know his plane and his opponent's plane, and fly accordingly! (and whine a little if the server lags either to death) :)
I don't have a problem taking a Typh into a fight and losing, but a Tempest, I can't go near a fight unless I want to be gang banged.
THAT is not right!
Viper
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Originally posted by Sky Viper:
You have a twisted sense of logic in my POV...You say that the overal K/D ratio shows a need for perk, but then you say that a superior fighter should be superior.
HUH!? Come again??
What dosent make sense about :
Originally posted by Am0n:
Of course the superior air craft should have a better K:d ratio, better air craft for one and they got better pilots at the stick normaly, until i hop in a F4C and ruin the numbers. :cool:
Go back to your post about the "top 3 K:d ratios" being the perked planes.
Lets just replace the word "superior" with "perked" and put more laman terms and see if it makes sense..
Of course the perked air craft should have a better K:d ratio, it is a better air craft for one, and they normaly have better pilots at the stick.
What doesnt make sense about that?
What ever that toejam is your smoking, the rule is "puff puff give", your messing up the rotation. :p
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"As for you Laz...
What you want is for everyone in the arena to be replaced with you. That way everyone will fly what you want them to fly and the way you want them to fly. This will make life for you that much more enjoyable.
That is the only way you are going to get any kind of parity AND selection. The perk system was introduced as a means to allow high-end aircraft without them dominating the arena. Would you say that has worked so far Lazs? I believe it has.
The rest is simply human nature. Take it or leave it... just don't come here and squeak about it every day with the same old VERY tired argument.
AKDejaVu "
Geeze... I never thought much of u deja but I never thought you were both pompus AND untruthful..
Show me where I ever said that I wanted everyone to fly any certain plane. You have no Idea of what I want and I honestly resent the fact that a pompus blowhard like you would pretend to know of some secret agenda i may have... Don't I say enough (and quite clearly I think) for you to not have to read between the lines? Even a cursory look at my posts would show that you have no clue as to what I want so keep that bull to yourself.
You claim that the idea behind the idiotic perk system was to keep a few planes from dominating the arena... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you mean that they will be used less and/or account for a lower percent of the kills in the arena. If this is what you are talking about.... you are correct... That is the case. If yu mean that they are less effective when someone uses one then no... They are still top killers. Wolves among the sheep. the perk system has done nothing to make them fair in the arena. A person who takes up a perk ride has a 2-4 times as good a chance of killing as a person who takes up say a -1d Hog or Hellcat.... Rare is not fair. they ryme but they have different meanings. How can you claim that the perk system has added parity? It is laughable that you would even suggest it.
So... if you can make the high end planes expensive enough and stigmitize em enough and make em the object of scorn and the target of everyone that sees em then the perk system will work? Yet... they still account for the highest K/D ratios in the game? How ya gonna "perk" that out of em?
Plus.... I have still not seen how you would introduce early war planes into the current arena by using perks. And, I don't know about anyone else but i would be interested in just what you consider to be my "same old tired arguement".
lazs
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speaking of pompus.. here comes lazs
I didn't quote you saying that you wanted people to fly specific aircraft for a reason lazs... you never typed it.
here's what you do say:
We need parity in the MA
I don't like when people ruin my fun
I think this is fun
I put this to you lazs.. you need everyone to do exactly what you want them to do in order for you to have your definition of fun. You are unwilling to change the way you do things because in that would mean comprimising your absolute definition of fun.
By doing this, you insult virtually everyone that isn't doing what you deem to be supporting of your ultra fun utopia. You insult perk points <though perked planes play a miniscule role in the ma> and bombers and frequently used aircraft. Did you ever stop to think that behind every one of your idiotic labels there is a pilot flying the plane?
Aircraft don't make the MA what it is today. Perk points don't make the MA what it is today. Bombers don't make the MA what it is today. The pilots do. When you go on your incessant tears in regards to the current status of the MA... think about who you are tearing apart.
Most others grasp this very simple concept lazs. Until figure it out, I guess I'll always be pompus in your eyes.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Am0n:
Go back to your post about the "top 3 K:d ratios" being the perked planes.
Lets just replace the word "superior" with "perked" and put more laman terms and see if it makes sense..
Of course the perked air craft should have a better K:d ratio, it is a better air craft for one, and they normaly have better pilots at the stick.
What doesnt make sense about that?
What ever that toejam is your smoking, the rule is "puff puff give", your messing up the rotation. :p
Perhaps the "Shit someone is smoking" is the problem.
Personally, I have never smoked toejam; or anything illegal for that matter. <Scouts Honor>
What doesn't make sense is your saying that a Superior(ok perked) Aircraft should be perked.
Try to think outside the "make it fair" box.
If a Zeke (hypothetical) is the most superior plane, then let it be! Don't try to dwindle it's success because it kills better and more often than any other plane!
That's like saying you can't use the "Free Parking" spot on that popular Board Game because it produces to much cash flow.
Hey, it's there, it's correctly modeled, Leave it alone and let it fly!
The perk system is the result of two things: whining losers that got beat up by lesser pilots like myself, and the lesser notion that we need some historical representation of production numbers.
Well, I agree 100% with part 2 of that, but our current perk system makes a mockery of history by placing superior aircraft under arrest (metaphorically speaking).
The biggest problem is that this system keeps playing to the whine. First it was the C Hog, then the N1K2, now what, the Mosiquito?
Systems always grow and they always get out of control. The whine NEVER goes away.
Hell, I may not be so opposed to the current system if perk planes didn't have to tow around those banners (Icons) that identify them as point pin'atas. I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't take every chance I can to complain about it either.
I would rather see no perks at all.
I'm all for, FLY WHAT YOU LIKE, WHEN YOU LIKE.
Viper
<shakes head disgustedly> Smoking toejam...hmmph!
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Sky Viper,
Nobody is "dwindling success" for any of the aircraft. The aircraft will be successful regardless.. that's why they are perked. There is one thing that is a constant in the arena... any outstanding aircraft will be predominant.
HTC perks because they feel a planes existance <unperked> would be unbalancing... or in the case of the F4u-1C... proved itself to be unbalancing. Its that simple.
I side benifit is that perk points can be dangled as a carrot in front of people to entice them to use the less effective aircraft. This has worked somewhat... but it hasn't done much to disuade them from using the more effective planes <N1K2, Spitfire and so on>.
Basically... it is not the great equalizer for the MA... but it not a negative impact to the MA. Most people seem to criticize it because it doesn't do all the things they want it to... without acknowledging that it does do what it was intended to do.
AKDejaVu
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Sky Viper - you ever wondered why theres only one free parking spot on the board?
think about it huh
:rolleyes:
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deja said... "here's what you do say:
We need parity in the MA
I don't like when people ruin my fun
I think this is fun"
Well now... that's a little more representitive. "we need parity in the MA" Well.... yeah. sorry if I hurt the feelings of some "pilot" who is just trying to have fun by having a huge unfair advantage or by gaming a part of "strat" that is FUBAR lopsided"... Gee, I guess calling him an attention starved no talent dweeb is accurate but .... Unkind?
"I don't like it when people ruin my fun" well gee.... no, don't guess hardly anyone does but.... I really HATE it when the guy uses a loophole to do it. Look... If you could read and comprhend or, more likely, if you bothered to, you would note a common thread in what I post.
I want variety and parity and I think the perk system makes a mockery of that. A pale imitation of both.
parity is not making all the unfair advantages more rare. Parity is not allowing the best pilts to club the worst by also having the most untouchable ac.. Parity is not allowing a couple of people to have a huge affect on the play ("ruin my fun") of many by using less effort and talent than any other sector of the MA populace or elements (fluffers).
Variety is not putting every plane in WWII in the same arena and then pricing them at different rates so that the best cheap plane or two see 30% of the usage and most others are down in the 1 or 2% usage rate. Variety is not having all mid/late war planes with no chance of having early war planes.
Early, mid and late war planes don't mix well. Even our zeke is an armored late war plane with self sealing tanks and it get's slaughtered in the arena. It wouldn't even be used half as much if it werent cv capable either... A spit one or hurri one or mig one etc. would be a joke... we just don't see em being modeled. The most important planes of WWII are being cast asside BECAUSE of the perk system. Or, more to the point, the direction the perk system is takng us. Faster and faster planes.
"I think this is fun".... meaningless but untruthfull nonetheless. You may be able to drag that combination of words out of all I have ever said but I doubt even that. I think you pulled it out of your bellybutton or it's something you think and you have attributed it to me.
clear enough for ya?
Oh, and somehow I still didn't quite get the gist of your explanation of how the perk sytem was gonna work with early war planes?
lazs
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
HTC perks because they feel a planes existance <unperked> would be unbalancing... or in the case of the F4u-1C... proved itself to be unbalancing. Its that simple.
I side benifit is that perk points can be dangled as a carrot in front of people to entice them to use the less effective aircraft. This has worked somewhat... but it hasn't done much to disuade them from using the more effective planes <N1K2, Spitfire and so on>.
Basically... it is not the great equalizer for the MA... but it not a negative impact to the MA. Most people seem to criticize it because it doesn't do all the things they want it to... without acknowledging that it does do what it was intended to do.
AKDejaVu
"BALANCE" is the problem. By trying to balance the arena, the perk system has caused an unbalanced condition.
If you want to take a Tempest into a heavy fight area, you can't. Well, unless you intend to have 90% of that fight focus on you!
THAT is wrong!
Perks aside, most pilots concentrate on the closest/easiest kills. Good pilots will use their SA to concentrate on the enemy who is the biggest threat. With Perks in place, both of these concepts go out the window.
Just last night, I died in a fight because 3 point hungry dweebs broke off a fight and went after Glasses in his Ta152. He wasn't even a threat! THAT SUCKS!!! That is NOT ballance, that is a NEGATIVE IMPACT!
Viper
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viper you cant fly a tempest because everyone wil chase you?. Just like everyone chased glasses? making hard for you to get kills in and easier for you to die in?
well go check temp/ta152 k/d they get kills and way more then they die. Now imagine the same plane with everyone flying it with no regard to losing his perks. Things damn sure will be balanced everyone in 262s temp and f4u-4s.
Sounds like your a bit to uptight to fly a perk. A temp in ah is as untouchable as a 262 flown right. What is there 5 perk planes all relatively recent additions to AH. You flew AH well before perks and you couldn't fly a temp what is it your missing out on?
60 perks aren't hard to get and it wont kill you if you lose 60. You can fly what you want you just gotta be able to pay for it.
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Originally posted by Zygote:
Sky Viper - you ever wondered why theres only one free parking spot on the board?
think about it huh
:rolleyes:
Because the chance at a "Windfall" is slim but real.
<shrug> Not much thought needed for that one.
That square was added to the game to give players a chance to stay alive and continue having fun with friends.
Perks do the opposite. They deny the "lesser" players(in some cases, unlucky players due to poor connects) the chance to fly the better planes.
The system does not add fairness to gameplay, it takes it away and even adds a disadvantage by making the "Perk" plane tow it's own "Kill me" banner.
It would be very cool to see more Tempests fly into furballs, but that's not gonna happen because they are a death trap under the current system.
Viper
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laz the best pilots dont necessarily earn the most perks.
Perk points aren't just an accumulation of kills.
You can have far fewer kills and far less time flying online if you fly planes with a high eny value and go after planes with the lowest and get a ton of perks.
for example I had a 10 kill sortie in a g2 and outa that 9 were nikis 27.xxx perk points in about an hour or so.
The problem fer new guys is while they are learning ah the gravitate to the planes they can get the easy kills in. Which is fine . But even if they kill 10 planes and rtb it will take umm a week to get 30 perks. Then they whine how wrong the perk system is.
I have no opinion about the current perk system other then to laugh at those who complain that how "unfair" it is. Its 5 planes relatively rare ones at that.
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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Originally posted by Wotan:
viper you cant fly a tempest because everyone wil chase you?. Just like everyone chased glasses? making hard for you to get kills in and easier for you to die in?
well go check temp/ta152 k/d they get kills and way more then they die.
As it was already pointed out, that is because only the better pilots fly them, and they fly to survive. You don't see them in furballs having fun, you see them way above or way faster than the rest, picking off smokers and slow turning aircraft.
Now imagine the same plane with everyone flying it with no regard to losing his perks. Things damn sure will be balanced everyone in 262s temp and f4u-4s.
YEPPER! Power where it belongs! That is what we all did prior to the perk system. Hell prior to the whines about the C Hog dominating the arena.
Sounds like your a bit to uptight to fly a perk.
LMAO...No, not at all! In fact, check my stats the last 3 tours, you will find I fly them and do well.
I just don't want to be the center of attention unless it's because I'm out flying everyone around me. Temp/262/Ar234 flags make you the center of attention whether you can fly them right or not.
A temp in ah is as untouchable as a 262 flown right. What is there 5 perk planes all relatively recent additions to AH. You flew AH well before perks and you couldn't fly a temp what is it your missing out on?
I'm missing out on being able to fly the Tempest the way I can fly the Spit or 109. I don't get attention in non perk birds unless I deserve it.
In the Tempest, a huge majority of dweebs will try to get you and leave the rest of the fighters alone.
I'm also missing out on getting to kill them because they are so rare. ;)
60 perks aren't hard to get and it wont kill you if you lose 60. You can fly what you want you just gotta be able to pay for it.
Yep.
I get the points, I spend the points. I just know I don't have to spend as many in the C Hog as I do in a tempest. Not because it has a lower value, but because when you see F4U, you don't know if it's a perk bird or not.
Everything else, including the Hog -4 has a built in flag in it's ICON.
I think MLB should make Barry Bonds use a Little League Bat since he obviously can hit better than everyone else. ;)
Viper
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Most others grasp this very simple concept lazs. Until figure it out, I guess I'll always be pompus in your eyes.
AKDejaVu
yep AKDV.
Laz after reading what you wrote on parity etc I did get what you meant and to a certain extent you are correct. But it doesnt hold up against an arena full of people who ALL want DIFFERENT things!.
We see complaints from people that perk planes are hunted? Well wake up brother what do you think would happen if 3 or 4 p51s saw a lone me262 in a bad position in WW2? they would vulch its bellybutton off.
The perk system has its flaws its true, but its being adjusted right now and the people saying its failed are being selfish in one way or another.Either they wont accept being made to fly lesser planes because of lack of points or they complain when someone does collect the perks and then flies well in those perked planes and get good K/ds.
So what DO you want? you want to be able to fly tempests all day and kill all those lovely lesser planes? WELL WAKE UP! if the tempest/me262/ta152/f4u-4 werent perked THAT IS ALL YOU WOULD EVER SEE!!!!
no more 202/spit5/109f/zeros/etc etc. ok yes some would fly them but the majority would be flying super rides.The free perk night proved it.Fun for what?????? 20 minutes?
PLEASE people give it a chance.
I think the only answer is very low costs but a dynamic perk system.As one type of aircraft starts to flood the arena they start to score less then finally they cost perks.Use them more and the price rises.
whether this is possible i very much doubt because it would be tricky to implement so HTC does it by hand.Ok they may get it wrong but i appreciate the INTENTION they have.
Laz and others i think clearly understand the cocept here but dont want it to succeed! I just dont understand you guys.
So this tour the spits are everywhere with the niks? give em a 'small' perk value until their use falls.
I think the days when the f4uc was everywhere really spoiled my enjoyment of AH and i considered quiting several times because the MA did not resemble a WW2 air fight at all! f4ucs vs f4ucs got REAL dull.
it was given what i think was maybe a tad too hi a perk value of 8. I think 5 would have been just as effective and would have reduced any aircrafts overuse.
BUT it MUST be EXCESSIVE overuse, not popularity.We need that balance and i dont envy HTC the task of tracking all the numbers.
Laz lets just take a moment to explain what we want the MA to be, you too AKDV.
Me? I want a WW2 like action game.I want to pick a german plane and fight american and RAF stuff.Then take a US plane and fight jap stuff.I want to fly the really rare stuff but i dont want to see an arena flooded with them.I want to fight EVERY aircraft without any 'AIDS' eg bomber guns.And I WANT TARGETS :D varied and fun targets that effect the game and are harder to hit the for the greater effect on the game they have.I dont want to constantly furball although i do love them.sometimes i take long sorties or go buff hunting etc.I love the varied choices.
I dont have 1000s of perks, 200 odd as a matter of fact so I dont agree with this elitist perk crap.Seems to me those with high numbers of perks are a bit more crazy in those perks and take bigger risks.fester has lost 1000 perks in a week having fun in an me262 at 10k and under, and hes not alone, read the boards for the cries of pilots losing hundreds lol :)
All i request is that we compromise with each other.Laz you want this fighter only type arena with areas of different era planes i believe? no perks etc?
well whats to stop me in my free me262 flying over to the 1940 area and raping every plane i see?just doesnt hold up.
are we going to have ERA barriers?
limitation of distance flown or something?
begins to sound more 'limiting' than the perks system!.
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That was mean, I editted it.
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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Did anyone notice that n1k is leading the chute shooting table?
139 chutes.
the bastards! :)
Bozon
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That's not chute shooting... that's the total it was killed by a chute. Chute shooting is no longer tracked as far as I can see.
AKDejaVu
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Great job on the stats!
Can't believe an argument arises from such nice work! :)
I fly the 109F4 alot. I haven't burned a perk point yet. Probably never will. I still believe in the system though, and IMHO it is a good idea. I flew the 262 on free night. It was OK, but I'm a piston/prop man and dont need that jet stuff!
Such an enjoyable simulation!
:)
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Got one word for u guys, Leviathn, grab any of your "perk planes" and fight his 1941 spit.
Shamus
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<<<I want to pick a german plane and fight american and RAF stuff.Then take a US plane and fight jap stuff.>>> - Hazed
This is where I have hope for the CT. For a few weeks it may be early PTO aircraft only and then switch to late war ETO and then to whatever else can be thought of. I think it might prove interesting just having a large map of ocean and each country starts out with a set number of CV and battlegroups in a war of CV attrition. Then the MA can be anything it wants to be....
Until then, the MA is not fair to all and there may be no way to make it fair to all. Someone above made comment to killing 9 aircraft in a row and quickly racking up perk points as if it's the norm. I'll argue that this is incredibly atypical and most have trouble getting more than one kill per sortie if they are not dealing with a negative K/D ratio as it is. The accumulation of perk points and thus the availability of the perk planes is not equal to all. I personally do not know the answer to this. Limiting the most lethal or most often used aircraft to only a certain number in the air at a time per country makes access fair and based on first-come first-serve, but I can see problems with that already that I'll not even go into and be clear I do not suggest this at this time.
I do not know the future of AH, but being a fan of early-war aircraft I'm concerned with not being able to fly Wildcats and P-40s in the MA. Yeah sure, they'll be available to fly but what's the point when you'll be an incredible minority in the arena and dead before the first turn? A N1K2 is to a P40 what an ME262 is to a N1K2. We either put in place a system to limit the superior aircraft so that the early war aircraft are available (and yeah, just shoot down 9 aircraft in your Wildcat to get the perks to fly what you want) or we won't perk the Spits and N1Ks thereby making Wildcats and Warhawks deathtraps and a very aggravating ride. It's a no win situation, I think. I'm waiting for the CT to mature!
One last point... perk planes are sought/hunted just as much as the easy-kills are sought/hunted.
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wotan... U are correct. The best pilots don't allways get the most points but it is a good general rule. If said pilots
are flying low perk gaining planes, for short hours per tour, getting high K/D and low total kills... they may not be as good as they think they are tho. The guys who live on line get a lot of perks but mediocre pilots like me wh fly an average amount in an average plane get a lot of perks too. But who cares? Some, as you say, are not suited to fly perks. I don't fly em and have thusands of perks built up. I don't enjoy the advantage that the PLANE gave me. That is the "fair" part.
Hazed... the perk system can work on paper if "working" means that yu will see each plane a like amont of time. It is simply a matter of assigning perk points to each plane according to it's USE. This is not my idea of fair "working" this is merely mental masterbation and an arena devoid of real fairness. An arena that has spit ones and 262's is a joke. What? You don't think we need early war planes? Well then... maybe in a late war only arena the perk system will work. I hate the idea of allied vs axis... there never was much of a time period where there was parity and variety is totally gone with such a setup. let the MA be nationless. I do not wish re-enact WWII... I read the book. I know how each part of it comes out and why. Being a windsheild is no more atractive to me than being the bug. I want to play a game. A game needs some rules that enforce parity. A game that I play a lot needs variety. The DIRECTION that perk points have taken us is wrong.... it has destroyed parity and variety.
Oh well.... I have posted my thoughts on a modified RPS or, better yet, an "area" arena for the MA many times so I believe I can say that i don't criticise without ffering some solution. I know that HTC feels that eventually we will have enough player base to have several arenas but.....
Maybe I will just post the whole thing in detail and get out of this thread. I was not the one who hijacked it tho hazed. I responded to you and then deja.
lazs
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Viper
Smoking "shit" is not illegal, but stupid.
I was refering to smoking grass. (pot, weed, what ever you want to call it) Have a since of humor bud i was joking with you.
Originally posted by Sky Viper:
What doesn't make sense is your saying that a Superior(ok perked) Aircraft should be perked.
Originally posted by Sky Viper:
LOL Perks help.
NOT!!!
Check this out:
I did a quick sort on the fighter data for Tour 20. Descending order by K/D+1 ratio.
The perk fighters occupy the top 3 slots for all the fighters!!!
LOL
Viper
[ 10-08-2001: Message edited by: Sky Viper ]
I wasnt arguing over what should and shouldnt (if anything) be perked, i was pointing out that showing kill to death ratios isnt a good way to argue if perking is effective in controling who is "owning" the arena.
As i said, perked air craft should have good k/d ratios, you got a better air craft and better pilots flying them. Less sorties, less people taking off from bases under attack and other scenerios that you would want to put a costly air craft in.
If you want to prove the perk system doesnt work you would want to show that they have 10x more kills and are flown more than any other air craft, which isnt the case.
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The perk system is to balance usage, not to make any planes less effective. I say Perk the N1K to drop it's usage a bit. Just a small perk. Say 5 pts. Most people who "must" fly a N1K would still fly it and 5 perks are easy to earn.
My $.02!
Terror