Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TimRas on February 18, 2003, 01:03:08 AM
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Why the P-51's are called 'Runstangs' ? I have played this immersive game now about week, and so far have not met a single P-51 who has declined to fight. But I have now seen twice a Fw-190 who simply fled. First I tried to chase Wulf with Niki about 10-15 mins, both about same alt, but he just evaded :mad:
Second time I was tailchasing (probably) D-9 on the deck with La-7 about 15mins. He managed to keep same distance (even with WEP on) until I ran out of fuel.
I think this is a great game of fly and fight. Are some people content with just flying and enjoying the scenery ? :confused:
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Many pilots are content living long enough to enjoy the scenery. No point in fighting a fight you won't win.
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It takes alot of experience in a virtual Fw 190 (any kind) to have the confidence to reverse on something like a N1K or La-7 that is chasing you. It takes a long time to get the feel of a virtual Fw 190 'down enough' to where you can fly at the edge of stall thru several maneuvers without spinning out, stalling, etc.
So, in short, be prepared to not have Fw 190s reverse into a 1 on 1 vs. your La-7 or N1K some times. They don't reverse because they think they will get shot down (they are probably right in most cases). The other thing to think about - were you alone? Or were you chasing them with 3 or 4 'friendlies' 1000-3000 above and behind you.
You've played a week. At a certain point everyone decides to see how well they can land their kills for awhile (nothing wrong with just fighting I was that way for a long time, and still am depending upon my mood).
Mike/wulfie
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Originally posted by TimRas
Why the P-51's are called 'Runstangs' ? I have played this immersive game now about week, and so far have not met a single P-51 who has declined to fight. But I have now seen twice a Fw-190 who simply fled.
please use appropriate terminology when referring to hunstangs, aka run90's.
:D
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After admitting to flying an la7, your right to complain about people running has been revoked. Please move along.
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In both cases it was pure one-on-one, no friendlies or enemies anywhere in sight. At least in the first case he could have used BnZ tactics quite safely ( I certainly would have tried that in his place). And in the second case the guy at least had ammo, trying to strafe my chute after I bailed when run out of gas.
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WTG 190 :D
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Originally posted by Innominate
After admitting to flying an la7, your right to complain about people running has been revoked. Please move along.
And a niki. Fly a 190 and then talk.
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You chose to fly a slow TnB plane - this is the price you have to pay.
Frustrating the spitV/zekes/niks is a great joy :)
Bozon
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The La-7 is not a slow TnB plane. It's a high speed BnZer in my experience.
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Originally posted by TimRas
Second time I was tailchasing (probably) D-9 on the deck with La-7 about 15mins. He managed to keep same distance (even with WEP on) until I ran out of fuel.
Mmm. Sounds familiar... Is your handle wcmd by any chance?
Gatso
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Originally posted by TimRas
Why the P-51's are called 'Runstangs' ? I have played this immersive game now about week, and so far have not met a single P-51 who has declined to fight. But I have now seen twice a Fw-190 who simply fled. First I tried to chase Wulf with Niki about 10-15 mins, both about same alt, but he just evaded :mad:
Second time I was tailchasing (probably) D-9 on the deck with La-7 about 15mins. He managed to keep same distance (even with WEP on) until I ran out of fuel.
I think this is a great game of fly and fight. Are some people content with just flying and enjoying the scenery ? :confused:
You'll find a lot of players that just run in the P-51, even when they hold the advantage, either in altitude or energy, just like you'll see a lot do the same in the La7 and Focke-Wulf.
I personally think the runners are a bunch of skill-less dweebs with no balls. It's not that I expect an E fighter to turn with my P-38, it's that I just expect the eunich in the running plane to fight period, especially if they have the advantage. Nothing makes me poke more fun at anyone than seeing some dweeb with an advantage grow timid and run.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by TimRas
In both cases it was pure one-on-one, no friendlies or enemies anywhere in sight. At least in the first case he could have used BnZ tactics quite safely ( I certainly would have tried that in his place). And in the second case the guy at least had ammo, trying to strafe my chute after I bailed when run out of gas.
YOU fly the 190 then come back with your report.
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Originally posted by wulfie
It takes alot of experience in a virtual Fw 190 (any kind) to have the confidence to reverse on something like a N1K or La-7 that is chasing you. It takes a long time to get the feel of a virtual Fw 190 'down enough' to where you can fly at the edge of stall thru several maneuvers without spinning out, stalling, etc.
Its not so hard. I just grab an A8 and kill'em with an HO at the first merge.
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Its kinda funny how people that labeled the P-51 as a "runstangs" can so easily justify the same strategy in a 190.
-Dive on engaged target
-Egress
-Climb
-Repeat
Note.. the climbing and the diving are optional. Sometimes you just fly really fast on the deck, below ack, and straff the runway.
One day, I hung out over a base that was under attack for some time. I'd wait for a 190 to come in flying down the runway and then try to egress... I'd dive on him with an F6F-5. I killed the same pilot 7 times in a row... always as he straffed the runway. That pilot is in the top 10 of all-time kills in a 190.
MiniD
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Try flying a p47 Tim...The enemy planes always seem to come back for the fight.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Try flying a p47 Tim...The enemy planes always seem to come back for the fight.
LOL! I know that's right... :D
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Originally posted by gofaster
Its not so hard. I just grab an A8 and kill'em with an HO at the first merge.
Until you run into someone that knows a little ACM and easily avoids your HO and shoots you down with ease because all you do is maneuver for the HO. Another easy kill for those with some knowledge of ACM.
ack-ack
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Not sure what people think of my 190 tactics but I will run if I have to against a La-7 until I am sure it will be a 1-1 and then progress into fast to slow scissors. If I see the pilot won't bite there really is no problem out running him after that. Only way you can turn with a la-7 is the first turn low and slow and your on his 6 around 250-300.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
Try flying a p47 Tim...The enemy planes always seem to come back for the fight.
I have tried P-47 too (like 190 and most of the other planes). Are there anybody successful with it (as a fighter) ? It has poor climb, acceleration, mediocre top speed at low alt and turns like a dump truck at low speeds. And when you try to get speed by diving, you have to trim it to get out of it if ( like 109). Even as attacker there are better alternatives IMO.
TimRas (handle the same).
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Its kinda funny how people that labeled the P-51 as a "runstangs" can so easily justify the same strategy in a 190.
Simple.
Hunstangs don't travel in hoardes, carry 2000 lbs load and 6 HVARs, make a dive from 20k, wreck bases in a lemming rush and go home.
Given the same qualities, runstangs have much better multiple purpose capablities, and they are also higher in fame. Thus, all sorts of dorks fly it in massive numbers, where their concept of 'dogfight' is make a 500mph gun-blazing pass and run straight home after that.
It's the sheer numbers of them flying around that gives reason to the people for their cynicism.
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I run all the time when I up a 190. Hey when you think about it that's what they were DESIGNED to do ... evade Ponies and kill bombers. If I get something as dangerous as a Lala on my six ... I run like a kid being chased by Michael J. The trick is to reverse the chase when the other guy gives up and turns back to his preferred furball, offering you a snapshot at him.
Hey ... I suckered a Niki last night, could that have been you? He dove in on my10 o'clock and I just did an inverted spilt-S and ran, dragging him for another friendly who promptly shot him down a minute later.
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Go fly a real plane then try again TimRas, ;)
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Originally posted by akak
You'll find a lot of players that just run in the P-51, even when they hold the advantage, either in altitude or energy, just like you'll see a lot do the same in the La7 and Focke-Wulf.
I personally think the runners are a bunch of skill-less dweebs with no balls. It's not that I expect an E fighter to turn with my P-38, it's that I just expect the eunich in the running plane to fight period, especially if they have the advantage. Nothing makes me poke more fun at anyone than seeing some dweeb with an advantage grow timid and run.
Ack-Ack
Heh ... 38's are my favourite prey in both the 190 and the 109, second only to the F4U. You won't see me running from you ... at least not for any lenght of time. ;)
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109's and 190's are my favorite prey in an f4u;)
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Hey Sixpence!
If you're a F4U stick that likes to tangle with LW, let's do a little 1:1, what do you say? Would be fun no matter who wins! :)
Btw. is your in-game handle Sixpence also? (sorry if you're an Uberpilot I should have known about, I'm just terrible with names. ;))
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Originally posted by TimRas
I have tried P-47 too (like 190 and most of the other planes). Are there anybody successful with it (as a fighter) ? It has poor climb, acceleration, mediocre top speed at low alt and turns like a dump truck at low speeds. And when you try to get speed by diving, you have to trim it to get out of it if ( like 109). Even as attacker there are better alternatives IMO.
TimRas (handle the same).
Tim,try %25 gas with drop tank,6 mgs low ammo in p47....It climbs ok,accelerates good,very good top speed and turns inside every E plane and with good flap usage 109s and la7's...I like it cause evryone thinks its an easy kill till you sucker them in..Muhaha!
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TimRas:
Have a go with Frenchy or Ammo or Strange or even Sancho and I think you will be a bit more impressed with the Jug. You need to really learn the plane to extract all you can, I'm still trying and have a long way to go. I watch my squad mates and am amazed by what they can do with the Jug.
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I have tried P-47 too (like 190 and most of the other planes). Are there anybody successful with it (as a fighter) ? It has poor climb, acceleration, mediocre top speed at low alt and turns like a dump truck at low speeds. And when you try to get speed by diving, you have to trim it to get out of it if ( like 109). Even as attacker there are better alternatives IMO.
TimRas (handle the same).
You haven't met Frenchy yet then.... lol
Him and his wingy make you shake your head in the tower 2 minutes later everytime :)
NwBie
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Originally posted by TimRas
I have tried P-47 too (like 190 and most of the other planes). Are there anybody successful with it (as a fighter) ?
TimRas (handle the same).
You betcha! Check in with the 56th FG sometime, they are the true P-47 experts. My squad’s planes for February are the P-47 and Typhoon. Neither is renowned for their dogfighting ability, yet both pack a huge wallop. My squad is running up terrific kills stats with these two aircraft. I find that flying the Jug requires greater aggressiveness than most aircraft. This largely due to the fact that you really can’t afford to waste any opportunity or advantage when flying the Thunderbolt, especially below 15,000 feet. I’m really enjoying taking on anything with the P-47 having learned enough to fly it effectively. No, you can’t stallfight with Spits and N1K2s, but you can rock and roll with Doras, Mustangs, Corsairs, Tiffies and late model 109s. As for those turnfighters mentioned above, just get some alt and fall on ‘em like a house. :D
As Ammo and Frenchy routinely demonstrate, a well-flown Jug can clean house.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by TimRas
I have tried P-47 too (like 190 and most of the other planes). Are there anybody successful with it (as a fighter) ? It has poor climb, acceleration, mediocre top speed at low alt and turns like a dump truck at low speeds. And when you try to get speed by diving, you have to trim it to get out of it if ( like 109). Even as attacker there are better alternatives IMO.
TimRas (handle the same).
This game has excellent statisctic- and lets you see some of them.
This a good one for overall plane performance (http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/totalstats.php)
This is a good one to look up individual performance in particular planes (http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/personalstats.php)
HTC has a few links too (http://www.hitechcreations.com/scores/mainscores.html)
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I guess you can say I'm an advantage fighter. I've been flying the 190A-8 this tour and I will run if the advantage isn't there. I've dragged many a plane to their death as those who fly around me can testify to. I'd rather drag a guy to his death by another friendly than risk doggin it into a bad position. The defensive capabilities of the 190 are limited to a few moves. Scissors work great, but if the opposition doesn't bite you're in trouble. Generally I'll use b&z tactics and keep the plane above 200mph where it flies best.
As for the P47, you can tell right away if the jug driver knows what he's doing or not. I won't give up my advantage to those planes, especially if I can guess who's flying them;) I'll stay away from those 56th guys (you guys rock) unless I have the advantage. I won't allow them a shot at me, it's only way to stay alive. Force them to play my tactics where I get the kill every time (mostly).:)
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On a side note 190's when I see them they die rather easily.
28 kills versus 2 deaths to 190's this tour.
163 kills in D9 and 9 deaths (6 deaths due to ack and gv's)
48 kills 4 deaths in Ta-152
25 kills 4 deaths in 190A5
7 kills 2 deaths in 190A8 (lowest kills for this plane for me in a tour in a year)
7 kills 1 death in 190F8 (same for above)
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You need to watch out for WideWing in a SBD as I have seen him kick some butt with it.
"Ya just gots to know your limitations" as Clint once said
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I guess you can say I'm an advantage fighter. I've been flying the 190A-8 this tour and I will run if the advantage isn't there. I've dragged many a plane to their death as those who fly around me can testify to. I'd rather drag a guy to his death by another friendly than risk doggin it into a bad position. The defensive capabilities of the 190 are limited to a few moves. Scissors work great, but if the opposition doesn't bite you're in trouble. Generally I'll use b&z tactics and keep the plane above 200mph where it flies best.
As for the P47, you can tell right away if the jug driver knows what he's doing or not. I won't give up my advantage to those planes, especially if I can guess who's flying them;) I'll stay away from those 56th guys (you guys rock) unless I have the advantage. I won't allow them a shot at me, it's only way to stay alive. Force them to play my tactics where I get the kill every time (mostly).:)
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Originally posted by Scootter
You need to watch out for WideWing in a SBD as I have seen him kick some butt with it.
"Ya just gots to know your limitations" as Clint once said
Lolololol....
If you really want to observe an artist at work, watch Nath flying a D3A1 Val amongst a swarm of fighters. Invariably, he will land 3 or 4 kills flying a 230 mph dive bomber armed with only two little 7.7mm popguns.
The general rule to be learned is never underestimate ANYTHING with guns... ;)
My regards,
Widewing
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P47's, all of them but specially the D11 can turn on a dime even with 75% fuel load and full ammo. One or two nothces of flaps and yer set for a nice turn fight. It accelerates like a devil in a dive but climbs poorly, like a 190 A8 in the climb.
Why does everybody complain about it saying it sucks as a turn fighter?
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TimRas try to fly a 202; noone will run from you:D
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Originally posted by stegor
TimRas try to fly a 202; noone will run from you:D
And after a good 10 second burst, lighting the target like a christmass tree and finally blowing at least one part off that sucker, there comes a friendly typhie or p51 tard pings the already dead plane just a little so he gets the kill and you get the assist... And still, I love to fly the 202 :D
And Tim, try to fly a plane not a NIK or la7...