Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on February 18, 2003, 09:11:46 PM
-
SHAPE News Summary & Analysis 10 February 2003 (http://www.nato.int/shape/news/2003/02/s030210.htm)
NATO
Members of the U.S. delegation who took part in a security conference in Munich at the weekend said the United States is contemplating radically changing the nature of its military presence in Europe, moving from a “garrison” system of big, heavily staffed Cold War-era bases to a more expeditionary posture in which troops would be deployed to the continent on a rotational basis, writes the Washington Post.
According to the newspaper, several members of the delegation spoke enthusiastically at the briefing they were given by Gen. Jones on his preliminary thoughts about possible ways to overhaul the U.S. military presence in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. They reportedly said they expect a permanent U.S. military presence to be cut from the current level of about 100,000 personnel, most of them Army.
Rather, they said, Gen. Jones and other top Defense Department officials are contemplating something more akin to the U.S. troop presence in Kuwait, where tanks, trucks and other military gear are stored, with troops flying in to exercise or deploy with it.
The article quotes Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), one of those briefed by Gen. Jones, saying Gen. Jones “envisions a transition to bases with pre-positioned equipment and skeleton crews.” A Senate staff member who attended the briefing is also quoted saying Gen. Jones raised the possibility of the U.S. securing access to a new base in Eastern Europe through which it would rotate troops on training missions.
The newspaper stresses that if implemented, the change would be one of the biggest in the history of U.S. military bases in Europe. Even discussing the shift sends the signal in Europe that the United States is ready to match changes in the Alliance’s political structure with changes in its military structure, notes the article.
The New York Times, Feb. 9, reported that Congressional officials who were briefed on the proposal said Gen. Jones is considering a plan to scale back the presence of U.S. troops in Germany in favor of lighter, more mobile units that could jump from country to country on a moment’s notice.
The plan, which appears to be in the early phases of development, grows out of Gen. Jones’ experience as commandant of the Marine Corps, where he championed the idea of having bare-boned “lily pad” bases scattered around the world, rather than having U.S. forces tied down to a few sprawling bases, the article said. It expected, however, that the idea is sure to be contentious for two reasons: Any talk of pulling U.S. forces out of Germany, no matter how preliminary, is sure to heighten the impression that Germany and the United States are further pulling apart. Second, Gen. Jones’ idea would impose a major cultural change on the Army, effectively asking it to behave more like the Marine Corps.
The newspaper insisted that while Gen. Jones’ proposal might appear to grow out of recent German-American tensions, Pentagon planners have been searching for ways to restructure American forces in Europe, and particularly Germany, since the Cold War ended.
Based on the U.S. media reports, France’s AFP writes: “The United States is studying changing its military presence to become more mobile instead of relying on the large bases currently housed there. The idea, recently presented to U.S. lawmakers by the new commander of U.S. forces in Europe, Gen. Jones, would be designed to adapt the U.S. presence from its current Cold War structure.”
-
Sunday February 16, 2003
The Observer
America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war against Iraq. The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation between the two countries - moves that could cost the Germans billions of euros.
The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - is designed 'to harm' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's 'treachery'.
The hawks believe that making an example of Germany will force other countries heavily dependent on US trade to think twice about standing up to America in future.
This follows weeks of increasingly angry exchanges between Rumsfeld and Germany, in which at one point he taunted Germany and France for being an irrelevant part of 'old Europe'.
Now Rumsfeld has decided to go further by unilaterally imposing the Pentagon's sanctions on a country already in the throes of economic problems.
'We are doing this for one reason only: to harm the German economy,' one source told The Observer last week.
'Our troops contribute many millions of dollars. Why should we continue to support a country which has treated Nato and the protection we provided for decades with such incredible contempt?'
Another Pentagon source said: 'The aim is to hit German trade and commerce. It is not just about taking out the troops and equipment; it is also about cancelling commercial contracts and defence-related arrangements.'
The Pentagon plan - and the language expressed by officials close to Rumsfeld - has horrified State Department officials, who believe that bullying other countries to follow the US line will further exacerbate anti-Americanism and alienate those European countries that might support a United Nations resolution authorising a war.
German industry earns billions of euros every year from supporting the US Army Europe which, although reduced from its Cold War heights, still totals 42,000 troops and 785 tanks - almost three times as many as the British Army owns. Many of these soldiers and their fighting equipment, including Apache helicopters, have already been sent to the Gulf.
German industry is heavily involved in supporting the US presence. Among the defence companies which stand to lose out are missile-maker Diehl, aerospace and defence giant EADS Deutschland, armaments maker Rheinmetall and vehicle maker Krauss-Maffei Wegmann.
There is also a US Air Force contingent of about 15,000 service people with bases at Bitburg, Frankfurt-am-Main and neighbouring Ramstein, where the commander doubles as part of the Nato command. This force includes nearly 60 F-16 fighter-bombers and a squadron of A-10 tank-buster aircraft.
Rumsfeld and his staff have made no attempt to hide their fury at Schröder's 'treachery and ineptitude' over Iraq. Last week Schröder leaked to reporters a Franco-German plan for avoiding war by increasing the number of UN weapons inspectors before informing his American counterparts.
'After this, Germany is finished as a serious power,' one of the sources added. 'This is simply not the way to conduct diplomacy at a moment of international crisis.' One diplomatic source said Rumsfeld was 'furious at Germany. He is a bruiser and it looks as though he means to do it'.
Under these plans, the US would move its troops in Europe eastwards to countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic and the Baltic states, all of which have strongly supported America's line against Saddam Hussein. It is likely that the overall size of the deployment would be reduced, as the US military changes its priorities for a long-term and disparate engagement with international terrorism.
Although Rumsfeld had already been considering a redeployment of US troops around the world after a war in Iraq to save money and respond to new threats, the plans now under consideration go far beyond what had been discussed.
It is likely that future years will see a sharp increase in the proportion of special forces troops able to deploy rapidly across the globe.
Germany would suffer considerable financial loss if US forces were withdrawn from the country.
The bases provide jobs for local people as everything from administrators to cleaners, and are huge customers for dairy products and bread.
America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war against Iraq.
The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation between the two countries - moves that could cost the Germans billions of euros.
The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Donald Rumsfeld - is designed 'to harm' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's 'treachery'.
Chimpys chickenhawks believe that making an example of Germany will force other countries heavily dependent on US trade to think twice about standing up to America in future.
How dare Germany have an opinion?
What do they think they are - some kind of sovereign nation?
-
Freedom has its price.
Everyone knows how the US does its trade, this has been so for the last 50 years, if they think otherwise they're fools.
Its the same in business, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.
-
So the USA has no right to redistribute it's military assests as it sees fit?
Maybe you should be the US secretary of everything weazel - you always seem to have the right solution to every single question.
-
Weazel, you're dropping into childishness again. I did apprecate the post you made that was written like an adult.
It may or may not be attributable to retribution against Germany's stand.
But let me ask you this: If the US is going to keep forces in Europe, would it be better to keep them in a country supportive of US goals and actions or in a country that is not supportive? Simply from a tactical view, I mean. Do you want to base in a country that you can't count on?
Basically, do you yourself do business with people that don't like you when you have the option of going somewhere else?
Bottom line though is if they do go to "lily pads" and cut the number of troops way back........ as I hope they will as a first step in getting all the troops home...... it would be the same if it's done in Poland or Germany. And any cutback is going to be tossed about as "retribution".
On my end, any cutback and return of US soldiers from overseas is cause for a huge celebration. Period.
-
Gee.... nice try on spinning it.
If I had my way ALL American troops would be brought home ASAP.
Not because I want to "punish" another country like Rumsfield does, but because sending our boys off to die for the ignorance and greed of white trash like George W. Bush and his corporate cronies is unacceptable to me.
What Rummys proposing is just another example of how ignorant and petty the current regime is.
-
Theres only one thing worse than a politician...
Someone whos not a politician but tries to use their same retarded trains of thought.
-
actually, it would behove the US to reposition it's base european base structure further east... I hear the Poles and the Latvians have invited us to invest in some really excellent real-estate all set up for military training operations that have been recently vacated.
-
Along those same lines....
I'm not sure why there'd need to be a base in Germany anymore. It's no longer on the "front", wherever that is now...
-
how dare the USA withdraw it's agressor army of ocupation from germany
-
So weazel, the day after he makes fun of the Repubs for increasing the size of government, is now making fun of them for trying to eliminate a pork barrel program for Germany?
-
Toad, I swear Preon posted that same article a week or two ago. Lemme go see if I can dig that thread up...
edit: found the thread.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78456&referrerid=4678 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78456&referrerid=4678)
-
As long as Americans don't set up a base in Aalborg.
We had yank ships here a year ago. It resulted in men arriving at the local meat market later than 23.00 (it'scommon to go out late and stay out all night here) having trouble finding likeable matresses.
I went out early :D
-
Originally posted by Vulcan
Theres only one thing worse than a politician...
Someone whos not a politician but tries to use their same retarded trains of thought.
You've noticed this too. What do you think drives this phenomena ? I'm talking about people who listen to talk radio, have politica buzzword bumerstickers on their cars, Identify themseslves as members of political parties even though it's not their occupation, a hobby I guess. And they like to throw around adverbs like conservative and liberal, you know what I mean . What do you think is their motivation ?
-
The "observer"? isn't that a hangout for low I.Q types?
lazs
-
Originally posted by weazel
Sunday February 16, 2003
The Observer
Chimpys chickenhawks believe that making an example of Germany will force other countries heavily dependent on US trade to think twice about standing up to America in future.
How dare Germany have an opinion?
What do they think they are - some kind of sovereign nation?
It's time to count our true friends....perhaps your friends are fair weathered Weazel....mine are not....thats why I can count my TRUE friends on one hand.
-
Originally posted by funkedup
So weazel, the day after he makes fun of the Repubs for increasing the size of government, is now making fun of them for trying to eliminate a pork barrel program for Germany?
Don't bother...when you show Weazel the hipocracy or give a valid arguement, he either starts calling you names or runs like a little girl.
-
Yep thats right.....since Reagan saved the world theres no need to have them there anymore.
Who's calling people names Brian?
-
It's not a straw man, it's just pointing out that you were contradicting yourself. Or am I wrong in reading your previous post to mean that you were opposed to Repubs increasing the size of the government, or am I wrong in reading your post here to indicate that you are opposed to Repubs decreasing the size of the military?
-
*Gasp*
You mean that countries like Germany and France who have allowed their militaries to decay to the point of near uselessness over the past 20 years, while spending all their funds on social programs and depending on the US to protect them (and called us many nasty names all the while), might actually have to defend themselves?
You... You... American Cowboy bullies !!!! :p
Allies support one another, and work together. If you dont' want to work with us, fine. Thats within their rights. But don't STILL expect all the goodies. You can't have it both ways.
-
oh my.....hmmm...this is turning out to be a.....HUH!!!!....american inside political thread
I'm outta here...that way----------------------------------------------->>>