Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: muckmaw on February 19, 2003, 11:17:48 AM
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Not mine! Are you insane?
I volunteer at the Cradle of Aviation Museam on Long Island, and we have alot of people working there that are obviously into WWII era aircraft. This one guy, Eric said he was looking for a good game, so I gave him the AH sales pitch, and the web address.
2 weeks later, I run into Eric. He's hooked on WWIIOL. My reply...are you nuts? Did you try Aces High?
His response: "Yeah I tried it but the graphics such. They're still using polygons (I think was the word he used)."
I tried to explain to him how there is so much more to a game than eye candy, and that AH was getting an overhaul this year, etc. No convincing this guy.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, although it does not matter to those already addicted, for some people, eye candy is the initial attraction that gets them into the game, and learn the finer points of it.
Side note, my wife came home last night and was watching me in a dogfight. She knows nothing about computers. We went downstairs and were watching Discovery Wings. The AH commercial comes on and I tell her, that's the game I play. She says, "The graphics are kinda weak, are'nt they?"
I just rolled my eyes, and did not go into the sales pitch.
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Out of all the online sims I'd rate AH a close second to WBIII with WW2OL a distant fourth after Fighter Ace 3.5. WBIII has nice detailed models and undulating terrain but to me the textures used in AH look far better than the ones used in WBIII. I find the graphics engine of WW2OL looks very aged compared to the others. Graphics are not everything though but I still rate WW2OL behind AH and WBIII, some like it but it's just not for me
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Maybe I'm confused then. He said WWII online, and I said, that game is so buggy. He said it was'nt. So either we;re talking about 2 different games, or they fixed it to some extent.
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If only ToD would be launched with a ground war. Ohhh Boy!
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There aro those who think graphics is the no 1 thing and those who appreciate gameplay before eye-candy.
I rather have the gameplay than graphics :)
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Originally posted by BlauK
There aro those who think graphics is the no 1 thing and those who appreciate gameplay before eye-candy.
I rather have the gameplay than graphics :)
I like both, but I don't like graphics that are going to make my computer obsolete, I like to get at least a couple years out of a chip before I'm forced to upgrade.
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Isnt AH2 coming out late this year? I'm sure it will be some steps ahead of WB3 as far as graphic is concerned. Well, I hope :)
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"Yeah I tried it but the graphics such. They're still using polygons ..."
ROFLMAO! Yeah, what is every other 3D game in existence using....magic jellybeans?! That's got to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard.
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Originally posted by Barney Fife
ROFLMAO! Yeah, what is every other 3D game in existence using....magic jellybeans?! That's got to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard.
Just a ignorant statement that meant he could see the polygons that make up the larger shapes. As opposed to smaller polygons that cannot be distinguished from the larger object.
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I wonder what resolution he was running in. With my new PC, I am running 1024x768 instead of 800x600 and AH looks 100% better.
What graphics engine DOESN'T use polygons anyway? What else is there?
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damn dude i want to see that magic jelly bean game. is that like cell shadeing?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I like both, but I don't like graphics that are going to make my computer obsolete, I like to get at least a couple years out of a chip before I'm forced to upgrade.
HEAR!!! HEAR!!!!
I agree 100%
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I guess most of AH`s "lacking" graphics is due to limitations imposed by the target platform.
Bump the polycount up, decrease the LOD bias, increase texture resolution - tadaaa....
I dunno HT, did you develop the engine yourselves or buy it ? If the latter is the case, why not just buy a new one ;)
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muckmaw
where in NY do you live, I live in Huntington currently.
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You cant loose anything you never had. So people prefer other games. They will have reasons or make them up to explain their preference.
To make conclusions based on a single individual is meaningless.
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I live in Franklin Square, Nassau County.
My senior partner here at the firm lives on Hampton Hill Court, in Huntington. I'm out there more frequently than I would like.
You should drop by the museum on a Sunday. I'll give you the grand tour. If you come by when it warms up, I'll take you into the restoration hangar and show you the fully restored F-14, A-10, A-6, F-84, and F-105.
And of course, theres the warbirds we already have on display...P-47, F4F, F3F, TBM, F6F...etc.
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Originally posted by Batz
You cant loose anything you never had. So people prefer other games. They will have reasons or make them up to explain their preference.
To make conclusions based on a single individual is meaningless.
No conclusions. Just making an observation. I'm not complaining. I feel sorry for the guy that misses out on all this just because of the Aesthetic beauty, or lack there of. I guess you could say the same about ugly chicks.
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That would be great muck, this Sunday doesn't look good but perhaps in a week and a half. I havent been to the museum yet, I know shocking isnt it.
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Sure, sounds good.
I'm in the "Jet Age".
Just look for the maniac in full flight gear.
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I just plan on walking into the place and start yelling muckmaw at the top of my lungs. hehe
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I just saw a post on the WWII Online forums about Aces High. It was frustrating not being able to reply to it.
The jist of his post was saying that Aces High's Damage model was a joke. Then he went on to say, and I quote
Now, that being said, I can't wait for the Rats to finish the damage model they have in the works.
Holy cow. How can you praise a damage model that isn't even finished? Sure I believe it will be a great damage model in the future, but it is anything but that now.
I think I'll stick with a fully functional solid product, and not something half finished in every regards.
I'm so glad I stumbled on to Aces High.
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Sad part is....they'd know who you are talking about.
Seriously, ust go to the entrance to the gallery and tell the kid there your there to see Joe Pizzo. He'll point you in the right direction.
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So, the eye candy doesn't impress someone from the X-Box generation...
...if someone doesn't subscribe for the reason above then trying to explain the real merits of the game to them would be futile.
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Guys, have you played the GAME Battlefield 1942?
I nearly fell out of my tree when I finally worked out how to fly the aircraft. The graphics are SO good and smooth (GF4-4400, Duron 1.2GHZ with only 100mhz bus, 384meg 133 ram).
HTC have very wisely committed to a graphics overhall IMO.
I re-subscribed to AH about 9 months due to the gameplay and sim developement. It was a major re-adjustment to go back to the 'old style' graphics engine. In fact the graphics nearly kept me away. (please note, Im not talking about the 'art', the art is fine, but a 256x256 texture is nothing compared to 512x512 or 1024)
However when all is said and done, the most important item is the fidelity of the flight model, which I was more than happy with compared to the competition.
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Please do not discount offhand that potential customers may dismiss AH because it looks 'old'. For every 1 person you hear about, another 99 will have the same opinon.
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i don t know, I think the graphics of the planes are better in ah than in either wb or wwiiol. The only part that sucks big floppy dd is the ground. It is impossible to determine distance, or anything like that. The only fun I had in wwiiol was whiping along the hills and roads watching the trees fly by (they recently upgraded the ground textures so they look even better now).
Damage model? Read the forums at wwiiol, even the rats admit it is completely hosed.
WBs have cool hit animations now, but everything else looks like crap.
As for you lazy guys still using the over priced 486 you bought in the mid 90s. Get a clue and a savings account. Computers are cheap. The fact that I dont get to see cool ground effects and hit animation is all your fault, well pisses me off.
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Let's face it :) We're living in a rapidly developing age.
For most of the young people who would soon to be AH customers, their definition of "gameplay" includes "visual quality". In short, no matter how much fun the game itself would provide, it is meaningless to them if the visual sensation is lacking.
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If only AH devotes more time into better lighting effects/tone for the graphic engine in overall, and makes it possible to use textures higher than 256x256, it'd be really something. The 3D modelling, IMO, is excellent.
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...and that's not entirely unreasonable.
Would you play Aces High if it had the graphics from the first version of Flight Simulator (written by Sub Logic) for the Apple ][ or the original PC?
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neXT had a great little flight sim included.
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Its amazing how big a difference the terrain makes. If you compare Kanttori's FinRus to some of the other maps, AH looks like another game. GV fights on FinRus remind me of OFP. :)
That said, I do think WW2OL is the best looking online sim. Its *great* to do road reconnaisance, skimming the road, below the tree tops, flying through villages at 300mph. At high altitude the limitations of the WW2OL engine are evident, the "fog barrel" is much smaller than in AH.
I'm running 1600x1200@32bit, 2xAA, all settings maxed out. The higher settings you use, the more clear the differences between the games are.
Camo
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Originally posted by Walker42
I just saw a post on the WWII Online forums about Aces High. It was frustrating not being able to reply to it.
The jist of his post was saying that Aces High's Damage model was a joke. Then he went on to say, and I quote
Holy cow. How can you praise a damage model that isn't even finished? Sure I believe it will be a great damage model in the future, but it is anything but that now.
I think I'll stick with a fully functional solid product, and not something half finished in every regards.
I'm so glad I stumbled on to Aces High.
Does WW2OL even visually model damage? I remember when you couldn't even see hit sprites on the plane you were firing at and no visual clues to the damage you inflicted. Just some black smoke and then BOOM, kind of like AW's old visual damage model.
Ack-Ack
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no it still doesnt model damage.
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It's funny how far the double stantards are brought in here, lots of the arguments about WWIIOL just makes me laugh :D
Of course it's also funny how people are bringing up long ago fixed bugs to make the game look even worse for other people.
Amazing how AH community has became so enclosed during the years.
Some people in here can't even accept the fact of someones preferring WWIIOL over AH... nor an another sim for that matter.
"There can be only one true god, it is paganism to believe in existance of other gods" - AH community 2003.
I for one, prefer WWIIOL over AH due to more fulfilling experience of a complete battlefield enviroment and theres no show stopper bugs or even severe ones in my opinion (it's not like AH nor any other game would be flawless!) - so bite me.
I encourage people to play the games they like, regardless of what the others say.
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Me too also support game play against
heavy graphics.
Its simple, the very good graphics are
good only for 1-2 weeks, after you use them.
They are good only in 1 thing.
To atract people in first looking.
But the Game Play, you live with this
every day, its a way of life :) , let the
fact that many people go crazy if they need to upgrate every 6 months.
My case, i have a good system @ home, no problem with hvy graph, but i fly also
from my job with a notebook 1g ,64mb graph, 500 ram.
I already have some problems, locks, and
i have start to afraid that maby the next year it shall cant follow the development of AH.
I can upgate a home pc every
6months,
but not buy a new notebook.
With two words, i see the curent policy
of HT @ graphics as Right.
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Originally posted by Fishu
It's funny how far the double stantards are brought in here, lots of the arguments about WWIIOL just makes me laugh :D
Of course it's also funny how people are bringing up long ago fixed bugs to make the game look even worse for other people.
Amazing how AH community has became so enclosed during the years.
Some people in here can't even accept the fact of someones preferring WWIIOL over AH... nor an another sim for that matter.
"There can be only one true god, it is paganism to believe in existance of other gods" - AH community 2003.
I for one, prefer WWIIOL over AH due to more fulfilling experience of a complete battlefield enviroment and theres no show stopper bugs or even severe ones in my opinion (it's not like AH nor any other game would be flawless!) - so bite me.
I encourage people to play the games they like, regardless of what the others say.
Hmmmm, I read through the thread again after reading this, and I cant find any ranting and raving exept yours Fishu, everyone else simply stated what they did or did not like.
yer jumpin' at shadows.
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As far as
visual damage that goes to Il-2 hands down.
Player additions for the game Il-2.
Massive online Play. AH and FA
Diversity of planes. FA and Il-2
Eye candy all around Il-2 and FA
Cockpits Il-2
Ground war AH
WE can all look at every aspect and put a point value on what we like. For me I would love to see in AH Il-2's visual damage and cockpits and armament loadouts and player added skins.
I fly Ah because there is nothing out there for me that I can get everything I am looking for. If Il-2 goes to a massive online support meaning 125-150 players its a no brainer where you will find me. I say this because I love german rides not knocking AH on there selections but that's just me.
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you can reskin any ah plane or object at 1024 x 1024 and fly it offline and you will see a huge improvement in eyecandy.
However Ht has made a descision to keep the download size and the min requirements at a point to apply to a wider audience.
You cant argue that that hasnt worked. But like every other game there are certain amount of folks who appreciate the eye candy more then game play.
However ah2 is otw and we will see.
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There is no graphical damage shown in ww2ol. The damage is there tho. Graphics are based on a polygon budget that allows even Odepus's 600mhz machine to play so I doubt they will ever look standalone state of the art. Ever had a wing burn off? The fire on the wing spreads damaging the lift surfaces, so that slowly over time the FM degrades requring more opposite stick to compensate. Eventually the wing falls off and the plane spirals in. Can you see it, no. Graphical damage is a front burner item. Since the switch to dx8.1 graphics can now be improved. Little eye candy...there is a shockwave(clearish white) that will knock guys around and the concussion will kill you. I saw the shockwave from a 1k bomb dropped by a 111. Coolest thing I have seen in a while.
I have been invited back to try AH and will do so. I will enjoy it, notice some bugs, and still think I am having a good time. Figure I will be handed my hat for a while, but I have till March 15th to learn.
Yes, you are talking about two different games. WW2OL is very much improved. CRS is turning out updates as fast as possible. The 41 set is being worked on with a Spit V, Hurri II, 110C, new tank etc. There is talk of adding the Boys 55 Anti Tank gun and its German equivalent.Lots of optimizations, etc.
I wish there were a way for a free trial for newbies and returnees. You can d/l the full install for free and fly, tank etc offline. I suspect Strategy First won't let CRS have a free trail . SF will not let CRS sell Key Codes online except in Europe. So, who knows.
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I will relish any improvements of the sim we all enjoy. I run at 1600x1200 and still have great frame rates. Could AH be better? Yes, and they are working on that consistently. Fishu and his brethren need to enjoy their game and stay out of ours.
trm
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Ack-Ack,
They have 4 kinds of visual damage in WWII Online. White smoke, yellow smoke, black smoke, and fire. These are always modeled as full blown leak, or fire. No matter what the severity is.
Hardcase2,
I want you to understand I wish WWII Online the best, and hope one day it results in a product worthy of playing for me. In the mean time I want to throw out the facts on WWII Online's flight model as current.
1) No Parasitic drag. Gear down, cockpit open, no performance loss at all.
2) Aircraft fly faster inverted.
3) No Structural Damage at all. You have to hit the pilot, engine, fuel tanks, or control surfaces to bring it down. Nothing else matters.
4) No structrural limits at all. No matter how much damage that is done to your aircraft.
5) Netcode seems to loose half your Rounds. Proven to be majorly improved with the beta netcode that never went live. The bandwidth was too expensive.
6) High Speed compression of control surfaces modeled on some aircraft, not on others.
7) 64 Object biasing totally hosed. You can see 64 Objects at one time, and unfortunately the first ones dropped seem to be the Enemy Aircraft your chasing.
8) I'll think of a few things later. I haven't played since 1 Feb, but they haven't patched since then either. So all of the above still applies.
This is just the FM. Don't get me started on the Infantry model, Mystical Ordinance Server(Impossible to High Alt Bomb.), or Strategy layer. I've read numerous times from people that if it wasn't for the squad they would be gone. I've seen squads totally decimated, and Hardly any old timers are left in that game.
If Aces high would decide to model a full ground war in AH2. No matter how cheesy it was done. I believe WWII Online would be finished. Of all the people out there complaining on WWII Online forums. I wonder how many even read the AH manual?
A couple of features that are in AH, that are not in WWII Online.
1) The ability to bail out.
2) The ability to control multiple engine's individually.
3) The ability to rearm without respawning
4) Visible supply convoys, barges, and Trains
5) Damage to bases actually affect supplies, and Vehicles spawned.
6) A Navy! And it can even be controlled.
7) The ability to jump into gunner positions of A/c in flight.
8) Bombers gunners that converge firing as one.
9) Adjustable Fuel, and ammo loadouts.
10) Adjustable Convergence
11) Weekly Senerios
12) Offline Drones to practice on
13) The Combat Theater for longer senerios
14) The Main arena when you just want to blow off some steam.
15) There's more, but I'll stop there.
I played WWII Online since it has been out. I hold 2 inactive accounts to it currently. I believe if all the half finished stuff in WWII Online was finished it would be great. Unfortunately that will probably take them another 2 years or more. Probably about the same time AH3 will be out.
If you love WWII Online great, but please stop trying to pass it off as something better then AH. That's like trying to tell me your half finished kit car Cobra with no body, and no interior. Is better then my fully functional firebird.
Good Luck on WWII Online
S!
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Nice post Walker
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I too have been playing wwiiol for awhile. Which makes the comment about bugs in ah very intersting to me.
What bugs are you talking about? I knew there was a ctd thing a while ago, but that never affected my computer.
Ah has to be some of the most streamlined well thought out code ever. I have never owned a game that performs as well as it does.
Now I love the potential of wwiiol, but I am not all misty eyed about what it is now, which is buggy, slow, and hard to justify spending time in.
If you have to 'tune' your machine to get more than 30 fps than there is something fundementally wrong with it.
Also, as I stated last month when I went inactive again (had to try out the new planes and such), here is what they need to do over there at crs:
1. Include a vox (like ah, hell even aw had one)
2. Fix the view system. For everyone. As it stands now, looking around makes you feel like a guy with tunnel vision in full traction. Particularly soldiers.
3. Make the planes all behave the same. Not one plane that is immune to some parts of physics and the next one is not. Docdooms write up even spells out the fact that the only way to knock certain aircraft out of the sky is to shoot the pilot.
4. Get the game to run smoothly and not take up 512 megs of ram. It is a joke that a pentium 600 will run that game. Only if you run on wimp bellybutton graphics and stay away from the airwar.
If they fixed all of these problems I would go and try it again.
erg
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My biggest gripe about wwiiol is the kill scoring. I haven't played since the last promo so i don't know if it's been fixed or not. I just can't see the point in playing if i don't feel like i've achieved anything- i can shootdown 3 or 4 planes only to find all i got were assists on the debriefing screen. Other times I would ping a few planes and they would fly away and carry on killing. Upon landing i get awarded 3 or 4 kills, i didn't get any satisfaction because i didn't feel i deserved them. The same thing happens with tanks- I could make an enemy tank brew but only get an assist.
The 64 limit is annyoing too, however it's better than it was though. Nothing like riding on a friendly truck only to have it dissapear with you falling to the floor and the truck reappearing 30 secs later half a mile down the road LOL!:D
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Graphics isn't everything, but good ones do add to the game. But game play I think is very important. For example, Steel Beast is a great tank sims. They've done upgrades but the game had very few bugs when release. Alot of fun if your into that. But the graphics are 2d. But it has a very loyal group that plays it. They are working on Steel Beast 2 which should will have an 3d graphics engine. In other words, if you build a good game, they will come.
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You see people from time to time say "I'm leaving to play cya" and they always come back. I think that says a lot.
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no, please no, no graphics improvement, not till June...my FPS sucks as it is.
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LMAO @ Fishu.
You should see his ranting and raving at CRS in the Axis forums.
Fishu you are a two faced liar, I've seen some of your posts, especially the ones about Panhards, and aircraft balances, in the WW2OL Axis forums.
Sit down and STFU.
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Reason I fly aces high,
The pilots, most of the pilots here are nice, and use teamwork, and then there is the ability to up a big mission, and a beach invasion, oh how I miss the combat theater...
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Originally posted by Fishu
Amazing how AH community has became so enclosed during the years.
Some people in here can't even accept the fact of someones preferring WWIIOL over AH... nor an another sim for that matter.
"There can be only one true god, it is paganism to believe in existance of other gods" - AH community 2003.
Its a damed good think that this comuntiy doenst care about your opinion of the game we play or this comunity. Why not stay over there and build your own comunity and forget about this one that you have abandoned? What gain to you to post here?
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Originally posted by Pongo
Its a damed good think that this comuntiy doenst care about your opinion of the game we play or this comunity. Why not stay over there and build your own comunity and forget about this one that you have abandoned? What gain to you to post here?
You going 3rd world on us Pongo or have you taken up coding?
Possible answers:
A) See Senior
B) 1
:D
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There are 5 lift points along each wing(may be more) they are damaged, flight surfaces are damaged. Props, oil, water, hydraulics can be damaged. Fire damage spreads correctly now. You can lose flying ability by simply taking hits along the wings. There is more damage than that which is seen.
Assumption number 3 is in error.
Some leave, some arrive. Seems that the player base is growing.
The test netcode was just that, a test. They did not add bandwidth to run it. I don't think money is the problem..
assumption 5 is debateable since neither of us knows for sure.
Trilla..it at least does have trucks. Someone lagged out driving.
I have yet to see the post where someone say ww2ol is better than AH. WW2OL flight portion is still that, only a portion. Things lacking will be fixed.
HC^2
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Originally posted by Lizard3
You going 3rd world on us Pongo or have you taken up coding?
Possible answers:
A) See Senior
B) 1
:D
I is a coder..been one for over a decade.
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Originally posted by hardcase2
The test netcode was just that, a test. They did not add bandwidth to run it. I don't think money is the problem..
Actually that net-code doubled the trafic and IIRC Killer himself said it would be too expensive for CRS to use it.
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Hardcase2,
Sorry about forgetting the lift points on the wing. I don't know why I forgot them. I have limped home playing allied with half a wing missing lift.
Actually damaging them with out a 20mm cannon is very debatable. Some have put over 300 .303 rounds into a wing with no adverse effects to that wing.
If anyone wants to look up the old posts that have fallen off of the wwii Online forums. Here's the rather hard to find search page. http://www.ww2olsearch.com/ (http://www.ww2olsearch.com)
Staga's right on the money too. The Rats did verify that the beta netcode was too expensive to add to the game without increasing subscription price. Also there was a pretty big difference in the way Aircraft took damage with that netcode.
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different stroke for different folks.
there's no way to please everyone...some will gravitate to eye-candy, some want game play, some don't care as long as they can blow toejam up.
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My perfect world would be both eye-candy AND gameplay....in Virtual Reality...
With troops!....Oh real ground warfare!
I guess what I'm asking for is Everything WWIIOL promised, but did not deliver, with all the things AH has delivered.
Does that make any sense? I think I just confused myself!
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Ya, it makes sense.
Sounds to me like AH2 with some Infantry, and more ground vehicles.
Why is it every time I see a WWII Online player on here promoting WWII Online. I want to say "Please read the AH manual, and find all the things that you've been dreaming of being added to WWII Online. "
Probably, because I was in shock when I read it. I was like, "No way!", "These are features to be added SOON right?" I seriously did not believe it, and had to test them out. Then I read about AH2.