Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bockko on February 20, 2003, 11:31:36 AM
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I have flown many planes in AH. Some I love, some I find torturous to endure. Simple things like cockpit view make me avoid many high performance rides. After months of flying various planes, I started taking up the good old spitty as a stress relief. Man, what a fun plane! Worth $15 bucks a month I'd say. I see many posts that rundown the spit and its pilots.
The plane has several major weaknesses that can be expolited, so it is not indestructable, and it can't run for the hills like many other planes.
Why the angst against such a fun, fine, ammo-limited ride?
bockk
[maybe we should unperk the 14]
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Well.. lets see.. it's a dweeb plane.. it's not radial powered..under gunned.. one ping radiator blow outs..
But the list goes on.. learn to fly something more challenging.. like an F-4u
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People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims. They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive.
(http://www.raf303.org/308/pilots/spitv_zfu.jpg)
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Only inbred, skill-free losers fly Spitfires.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by funkedup
People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims. They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive.
Preach on Brother Funked.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Lol DMF i fear that hooks a little large ;)
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under gunned..
I'd trade in the MK108 30mm and both MG131 13mms for just one Hizooka as a hub cannon.
...
Generally, it is because the guns hit out pretty far than average instances in AH. Spitfires rarely have a chance to get within 300 yard ranges of faster fighters, but given enough E advantage they can outmaneuver most planes and aquire a very, very long shooting opportunity from 300 yards to as long as 800 yards. A typical engagement would be a Spitfire(or a N1K2) diving from above, getting within about 400 yards, and then sniping the target out of the sky between 400~600 yards range.
As a comparison, the I-16 type24 in IL-2 servers out-turn almost everything else, and also has good fire power - an awesome plane to fly.. but since they rarely can get within 200 meters of the target, and since it's very very rare somebody gets hit from shots further than 250 meters in IL-2, nobody complains about them. Naturally, nobody uses them unless they are limited to it as in 1942 servers where VVS choices are the Yak-1, Yak-1B, I-16s and Yak-7.
Frankly, the whinings about N1K2s and Spitfires is really about the gunnery modelling thing, not about their performance. If the A6M zero had two Ho-5 cannons, everybody would be putting the zero in the 'dweeb plane' list in AH. Alternately, if gunnery 'feel' of AH was something like IL-2, I can guarantee 100% that nobody would be complaining about Spitfires and N1K2s.
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Gunnery in Il2 may seem harder (haven't played it in ages) because the Russian and German 20mm have poor ballistics. I wonder how the hispano will fair in Il2:FB....
People whine about spits because it makes all other planes look ugly.
(http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/pics/ep120.jpg)
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the problem comes when some guys let their heads get too big, they see spit and think spit=newbie, so they don't respect it. You don't respect any plane long enough it'll come back to bite you...then they run to the bbs to post a whine and protect the ego.
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Nice pic's of a beautiful plane gents. Spits, such a fine whine it creates.
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Get out of those dweeb rides and fly something that requires skill! No skill dweebs!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Levi man, a 10 pound ham wont fit on the end of any fishing hook.. :D
Dont let the plane whiners get to you - sooner or later you learn to exploit every aircraft's weakness, which is usually the pilot.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Levi man, a 10 pound ham wont fit on the end of any fishing hook.. :D
You'd be absolutely amazed at how well it works in the MA. I can get at least a dozen people mad at me in one fell swoop there. :D
-- Todd/Leviathn
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S! Bockko
Ignore sob spitdweep-whiners. Just use ".squelsh xxx". Some of them really have their over modelled ego too deep in their ( * ).
Its too bad, because :
-HTC modeling this useless plane which history start before the WW2 and which was in operationnal use after war too.
-HTC over modeling Spit FM. Everybody knows it was "Flying coffin". "My G'papa say so!!" right...
-HTC under model all US plane FMs. IRL P51D can outdive Hale Bob. P47 can cruise warp 5 and . F6F can out turn Extra 300...
-Spit shot you down. Big deal, its just a game.
-this troll hook is very sharp and I have difficulties spit it out...
In MA Spitfire IX isa good / medium in many important areas of air combat but not the best of any. All together great combination & balance = great fighter. Bring your Spitfire IX/XIV to the 30k+ and start E-fighting with Dweep Ponys, Jugs, Doras & G10s. Its great fun up there.
YOU want more challenge, eh? STFU and start flying with mouse! Its everybodys own 15$/month.
Have nice day
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Just fun sayin "Spitdweeb" and "Lame7". ;) Been flying them both some lately and they are fun! That's what I'm here for, you?
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Not the plane himself (her??); maybe the fact that 90% of spit-riders seems to fly only for HO :p
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Because it's a very forgiving plane to fly, which is why it's a good choice for beginners and another reason why some think it takes no skill to fly one.
Those that whine about the Spitfire are the same dweebs that whine about the N1K2 and how the La7 should be perked. They are easily spotted in the MA because they are the ones that always cry out "BS!" every time they get shot down.
Ack-Ack
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people make no distinction between Spit1...5...9
all they see is "SPIT"
but when a supposed VET calls you dweeb in your spit5....makes me feel good:D
ya give alt....ya give speed.......ya kill em!!!!
response......"your a spit flyin dweeb.....ya lucky your ina dweeb plane"
they always forget very quicky that they had ALT and SPEED adv. over you:eek:
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Spits/La7 are no big thing as typically good pilots aren't flying them - pretty easy pickins unless you doing something stupid or goon hunting. I always know when I see that hard flat turn or a guy shooting from 1.5 that I got a kill just waiting to be collected.
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Beer Rat in a Spit?
(Early on, I fell for that Leviathn crap. Now I avoid all Spits on the deck flying inverted with gear down.)
HONK!
Gooss
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Apart from flying other planes for missions, I almost fly one or other of the Spits exclusively. No idea why we get the Spit dweeb, it's not as if at the first sign of trouble we can run. Most of the other planes e.g. LA7, LA5, Yaks, P51 etc etc can catch us quite easily. Although I have shot down my fair share of them.
In fact the amout of times (rarely I admit) I have got a 1 on 1 with one of the others the first thing they do when you get on their six is dive and run. So in my opinion (not worth a crap anyway) for Spit substitute LA7, P51, Yak then add the dweeb tag.....LOL.
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they dont like it because they dont see why people should have such a easy ride that almost anyone can get a kill in...
YOU want more challenge, eh? STFU and start flying with mouse!
errr the mouse is actually easier to use than a stick once your used to it...
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Originally posted by vorticon
they dont like it because they dont see why people should have such a easy ride that almost anyone can get a kill in...
[/B]
Exactly! Spits are EZ mode loser planes, just like N1Ks and Hurricanes. Get into a real plane, people!!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Spits are incredibly easy to fly and be good in... That's why people rag on them. 109's are easy to survive in (just about everyone uses them to run from fights...), but hard to actually be good in.
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Originally posted by wetrat
Spits are incredibly easy to fly and be good in... That's why people rag on them. 109's are easy to survive in (just about everyone uses them to run from fights...), but hard to actually be good in.
YEAH! 109s = takes skill. Spits = no skill.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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So if your right it's easier to get kills and get home in a Spit - don't think so. Don't have the speed to "run" outta a furball. The skill comes in getting kills and getting home without being run down by one of the many faster planes. But each to his own.
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ok so what the fu%# im a spit dweeb, yes there it is i confess, but i'm (excuse me a second) a damn good spit dweeb ( i dont usaully brag) i fly the spit 5 and when i'm on , i'm on , and thats all there is to say about that, i also fly the fw a8 and guess what i like it as well, so if i'm in a spit or an fw hey call me a dweeb i dont really give a damn , the reason your calling me that anyhow i cuz yer prettythang just got flamed by this spit dweeb;)
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If you guys want to know what plane takes skill to fly, the only one in AH that does is the P-38L. Everything else is just EZ-mode.
Ack-Ack
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Two good Spit shots :)
I stole them, washed them, cleaned them up and hung them..
The smaller of the two is expecially nice.
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Nopoop you trawling through spitoons again ?
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Frankly, the Spitfire is a superb plane.. and how gunnery and damage is dealt in AH, makes it even better(perhaps up to the point that it makes it even more successful than it was).
Also, it's the ahistorical context of the MA which brings out much frustrations among people. You do a good fight, can't run away from a La-7s, so you dodge a bit and get low, and see zillions of Spitfires oggling around like maggots swarm to a dead flesh. Usually the La-7 stops someone from running away, and the Spits and N1Ks finish them off.. a peculiar combination of 'turn' planes and 'fast' planes which make people who choose to fly other planes frustrated.
But in the historical context, I think it's more.. um.. 'relieving'. For instance, in CT arena, North African setups, the Fw190A-5 totally dominates the SpitV in a large scale, massive engagements. Also, the Bf109F-4 is outright a good match against the Mk.V, too.
Another instance is the PAC setups, where USN planes fight against JP planes.. and frankly the N1K2 is no where near a threat as it is in MA, because no other plane can catch the faster USN fighters, and make them go low and slow for them.
Thus, as long as it is the MA, the Spitfire is accepted as it is. A great, and perhaps the most successful plane to fly around.
Mr. Reginald Mitchell made one helluva plane.. !
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"People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims. They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive. "
The problem, at least in all the flight sims I've ever been a part of, is that sims tend to model the good points of many of the most famous fighters (Spitfire, P51, 190, 109) but not so many of the bad points.
For example, the Spitfire, while unsurpassed as a close in scrapper, was unable to compete in a high speed energy fight with such as the 190A. It exhibited poor maneuverability at speeds in excess of 300 mph, was slow to accelerate, had a poor dive and zoom climb, and didn't have the top speed (except for the Mk XIV) to engage/disengage at will.
The "less able" Yank fighters, on the other hand, generally maneuvered quite nicely at high speed (the P51 and P38J-L both easily outrolled the 190 at top speeds), posessed dive (and level, in the case of the P38) acceleration and zoom climbs well surpassing that of the Spitfire, and were generally fast enough to close on, or get away from, a bandit.
In these flight sims (most of them anyway), the high speed maneuverability of the Spitfire (as well as the 109) is generally much better than in real life, and since it's somewhat difficult to model dive acceleration and zoom climb independant of horsepower/weight and rate of climb, we see Spitfires that outzoom/outdive a P38L. Unfortunately, since these shortcomings in real life aren't found in the sims, these real-life "tough customer" fighters become nearly unbeatable, and matchups that would've generally turned out in favor of the faster aircraft in real life end up going the other way in a sim.
Hope this helps.
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I think Kweasa hit the nail on the head.
And I guess I'll chime in too and say that I think the Spitfire enhances any pilot's skills and is a tad easier to get kills in [edit. in the MA environment] than just about any other aircraft. And like wetrat touched on, that top speed is good for surviving and getting away from a bad situation (maybe, there's always a Spitfire around with altitude on you and he'll certainly be able to catch you), but it really doesn't help once engaged 1 v 1. In this situation, it's how well an aircraft can accelerate that is a benefit (and thus, how well it can retain or regain E) and not top speed. The Spitwad is great at this. But all this is just my opinion, I haven't flown a Spitfire in the MA in ages though I don't think things have really changed. I cannot fight a Spit 1 v 1 in my favorite rides and win, and that's why I have to snipe them when they aren't looking or gang up on them.
Leviathan, did you marry a sister or a cousin? ;)
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Originally posted by Hornet
the problem comes when some guys let their heads get too big, they see spit and think spit=newbie, so they don't respect it. You don't respect any plane long enough it'll come back to bite you
Lol, that happened to me just last week (two weeks ago?) I flew low and fast past an enemy field to see who would give chase (I was in a Yak-9U) After a sector or so, all that was left was a single spit, everyone else broke off. I turned back, and attempted to engage, but every time I would get in close, he was just out of reach. I was running low on fuel, so I... um... "extended" back to base. Turns out it was Rude in a spit V.
It was at that point that I realized that up until the point of engagemen I had just assumed that whoever was in that plane was either new, or just not very good. I mean, it was a spitfire, who chased me out away from friendly cover. I mean, I figured it'd be an easy kill, like Levi or something.
-Sik
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I fly what I feel like flyin at th moment, and I don't give a flyin rat fu#ck what anybody thinks. I die equally well in all planes:D
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As far as its performance in AH, there is no evidence that the Spitfire is modelled poorly. No more or less than any other ac in the sim.
Spitfire had fine acceleration (esp the IX and XIV), it isnt modelled faster in AH than in real life (check the #s), SpitfireIX in AH does @405 tops, at the proper alt. All the other models check out too (Mk 1, V, XIV). It DOES stiffen up on the ailerons at high speed in AH, as does the 109 in AH, as far as climb goes, again, the #s match. It had no problem performing high speed dives (unlike the P-38).
The P51 and the P-38L DO roll faster at high speeds than the 109 in AH, so Im not sure what the complaint there is. They also roll faster than a Spitfire (any version).
There is no source anywhere that indicates a P-38L could out dive a SpitfireIX. SpitfireIX is not an A6M5, and it didnt require a dive brake to control a high speed dive, neither did the 109. It might have had a slight edge in the initial dive, but it could not sustain that without compressing.
As far as "disengaging at will" the P-38L could not do that vs any of the 190 series, or the 109G-6 or 109G-10. To do that requires a COMMANDING speed advantage, ie P-40E vs Fw 190, F4U vs A6M5. 414-425mph (P-38J-L) vs 410-440mph (Fw190 and 109G-10) does not do it, not even close. As far as out diving them, no, it could not.
Spitfire F. IX rate of climb, have a look at the link, it did 20,000 ft in 6.5 minutes, compared to 7 min listed for a P-38L that I can find.
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html
Most of the poor traits are modelled in the AH fighter ac as well as the good traits.
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Originally posted by akak
If you guys want to know what plane takes skill to fly, the only one in AH that does is the P-38L. Everything else is just EZ-mode.
Ack-Ack
You're confusing 'work' with 'skill'. Real pilots fly the 109F, where you have to get inside d150 just to hit anything, and then you have to be able to stay there in order to knock anything off your target. And if you're really masochistic, fly the 109E in the MA.
But if you're REAAALLLLY good, you can try and bag a kill in the P-40B.
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This ain't rocket science. People whine/complain about dweeb planes because they need a 'crutch'. "It's not my fault I died...the other guy was flying a dweeb plane!!!". Yeah...right! Fly whatcha want and have fun. After all...that is the whole point :D.
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Originally posted by funkedup
People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims. They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive.
Yup,
Didn't Goering fly into a rage when one of his senior officers, when asked what he needed to win the Battle of Britain, replied "Spitfires"?
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"Didn't Goering fly into a rage when one of his senior officers, when asked what he needed to win the Battle of Britain, replied "Spitfires"?"
"Goering came out to our airfields in France. He was mad at us fighter pilots, because we did not give sufficient defence to our bomber squadrons against British fighters. When Herman Goering asked me what he could do about it, I replied....I want Spitfires for my wing!"
--Adolf Galland
J_A_B
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"Goering came out to our airfields in France. He was mad at us fighter pilots, because we did not give sufficient defence to our bomber squadrons against British fighters. When Herman Goering asked me what he could do about it, I replied....I want Spitfires for my wing!"
I love out of context quotes...
Now quote the next paragraph from "The First and the Last"... You know, the one where he says that this wasn't really to be taken seriously and that he felt the 109E was the superior plane.
What Galland really wanted in order to "win" were two things:
1) Drop tanks.
2) To be allowed to detach from the bomber formations.
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I'm well aware Galland wasn't serious. It's still funny though.
J_A_B
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I bet all Spit Pilots have a little box where they have to put quarters in.
U have been 109'ed !
GAME OVER blink blink blink GAME OVER
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lol
Spitdweebs :D
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Dogfightin in a heavy P47 at treetop level....now that is a fun/frustrating challenge :)
In a BZ fight or high alt fights the lame7's and spits usualy takes a nap before my 47 is toasted, so they are not that uber. Make sure you have some alt/ E advantage at all times and NOBODY can run away from you :D
Use the planes strenghts and you get some decent kills in every ride, just dont get fooled to play on the enemys terms.
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the silly hispano modeling (fixed 3 times i know of) get rid of the ability to kill effortlessly at d 1200 and spit would just be another plane.
htc knows this. ever wonder why we dont have the more common 4 hispano version of the spit 9?
two words "chog debacal". wonder how many customers left over that.
4 gun spit and it would be the no skill formula flyers ruling the arena again. sigh
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Bombadil git ur darn arse back in air. I need my Wingman back :D :D
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Get out of those dweeb rides and fly something that requires skill! No skill dweebs!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
-- Todd/Leviathn
does F4U (all models), p-51D-B, and 190 (all models) requires skill?
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A pair of super dweebywouldntgetcaughtdeadint hemflyingthingys
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Originally posted by funkedup
People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims. They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive.
(http://www.raf303.org/308/pilots/spitv_zfu.jpg)
Wonder what my K/D ratio is against spits with my Hog?:rolleyes:
Booky
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
does F4U (all models), p-51D-B, and 190 (all models) requires skill?
^
yes
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
does F4U (all models), p-51D-B, and 190 (all models) requires skill?
All the planes require skill to be successful in them. Sure there are some planes that are easier to fly and those without skill might be able to fly long enough to get to a fight but they will soon die within seconds of entering the fight, regardless if they are flying one of those so-called 'uber-no-skill-needed-to-fly' planes like the Spitfire.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
YEAH! 109s = takes skill. Spits = no skill.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Fly a 205 for a tour and keep your k/d and you're my god.
Can't say you're not a good ah pilot, but would love to run into you in a 205 instead of a spitV:D
The 'best pilot question' might be forever answered by a month long run in the 205 with an equal k/d that ya get in the spit5.
Or....ya might just have more fun fighting in a plane that has more limitations, and still kicking everyones assss.
Just a thought:D
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Originally posted by Lazerus1
Fly a 205 for a tour and keep your k/d and you're my god.
Can't say you're not a good ah pilot, but would love to run into you in a 205 instead of a spitV:D
The 'best pilot question' might be forever answered by a month long run in the 205 with an equal k/d that ya get in the spit5.
Or....ya might just have more fun fighting in a plane that has more limitations, and still kicking everyones assss.
Just a thought:D
Lazerus,Levi would be succesful no matter what he flies in.Duel him in 205 vs 205 if you don't believe me.
He flies the SpitV because he loves to turnfight.Trust me,he could BNZ all night long if he wanted to;but it bores him.
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Join the flock of spit drivers.
Treuly it's an easy mode plane.
I never lost a 1 on 1 fight in it.
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Originally posted by Sox62
Lazerus,Levi would be succesful no matter what he flies in.Duel him in 205 vs 205 if you don't believe me.
He flies the SpitV because he loves to turnfight.Trust me,he could BNZ all night long if he wanted to;but it bores him.
I have, he did, I know.
BNZ in a 205? Talking about furballing.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
I never lost a 1 on 1 fight in it.
You must have never been in a 1v1 in it then.
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Originally posted by nopoop
A pair of super dweebywouldntgetcaughtdeadint hemflyingthingys
My favorite toy this tour...... Once you figure out the proper tactics, it's awesome.