Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on February 20, 2003, 02:23:27 PM
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L'Unilateralisme
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In a fit of pique more fitting of an adolescent than a head of state, Chirac lambasted the Eastern European nations that signed a letter siding with the U.S. on Iraq, saying they had "missed a great opportunity to shut up."
He even suggested they might be blocked from joining the EU because they're refusing to toe the Franco-German line of appeasement. But if Chirac guessed the Eastern European nations, long silenced under the iron fist of Soviet control, would be cowed by his Gallic bluster, he was wrong.
"We are not joining the EU so we can sit and shut up," Czech Foreign Minister Cyril Svoboda responded to Chirac.
Romanian President Ion Iliescu replied even more tartly: "Such reproaches are totally unjustified, unwise and undemocratic."
They're not alone. Political leaders in many of the 13 countries waiting to join the EU support the U.S. in the Iraq dispute. And they're letting Mons. Chirac know.
Which really gets to the heart of the matter - who'll control the new Europe? France and Germany, humiliated by America's role as the sole remaining superpower, have tried to use the EU to expand their influence beyond their own meager powers.
France, in particular, wants to have it both ways - accusing the U.S. of "l'unilateralisme" and of being a "cowboy," while pursuing its own brand of unilateralism in the EU - trying to forge a nondemocratic socialist superstate based on Franco-German control.
If anything, those heavy-handed attempts at coercing smaller, would-be EU members to go along with their anti-Americanism have won France and Germany little but resentment.
It's pretty clear the new nations on Europe's fringes aren't keen to be pliant members of a stagnant, America-hating bureaucracy.
For them, democracy is a new adventure. They want economic growth and freedom - not the stagnation the French and German models provide. And nations like Romania, the Czech Republic and Hungary gratefully recall U.S. support in their struggle against the Soviets. They want the new Europe to have close ties with the U.S.
Sadly, the same can't be said of France and Germany, the "old Europe," as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld called them. They've taken great pains to confound U.S. efforts to dismantle Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. In doing so, both nations are guilty of blatant hypocrisy - pursuing lucrative commercial ties with Iraq, while hinting the U.S.' real obsession is oil.
Chirac and Germany's Gerhard Schroeder will reap what they sow. The EU's periphery - Eastern Europe, Italy, Spain, the U.K., Denmark and others - don't share their mistrust of America. Sixteen European nations support the U.S. on Iraq. Just three don't.
If war comes, the real loser won't be Iraq. It'll be France and Germany. Their hope of a subservient Europe of weak satellite states dancing to their tune is dead. They're isolated in the middle.
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The guy who will post this message for 10th time will have a ....sweety.
I'm so nice ... don't thank me :p
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Very interesting JBA. Seems France is loseing friends all over europe too and not just in the US.
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sweety not awarded ... you're too late ...
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straffo...if you dont have anything to say...why not just shut up?Why do you have to post something in every thread about France?
Cant you just accept the fact and move on or something? I mean its not as if you are proving people wrong, or critizising the sources, or convincing people that France is a really nice country...
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I'm still translating you long post full of valuable information.
Thanks for your inestimable contribution to this thread.
4 minutes delay before jumping on me again ?
You are running slow today ... just have another coffee
But after the WE I guess you'll be faster as you will be more fresh.
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each time you post straffo you prove people right....
your country sucks....
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David Letterman:
"France wants more evidence [of Iraqi violations]. The last time France wanted more evidence, it rolled right through France with a German flag."
Dennis Miller:
"The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq."
Jay Leno:
"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!"
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Don't worry Straffo, some of us still think you're one cool French guy. ;)
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C'est bien mon petit tu poste comme si j'en avais quelque chose à faire de ton opinion.
Tu n'imagine même pas à quel point je m'en moque...il se trouve que j'ai plein de temps libre en ce moment...
Un défenseur de le barbarie nazie n'a pas plus de valeur pour moi qu'une merde sur un trottoir.
Mon pays en peut-être a chier mais il se trouve que c'est le mien et je le défend contre certains incultes réactionnaire d'Europe ou des Etats-Unis.
De plus voyant le rationalisme appliqué d'un soi-disant petit juge suedois qui est incapable de suivre un raisonement scientifique rationnel et éprouvé je vois pas pourquoi je prendrais la peine de poster en Anglais.
Je ne prend pas la peine de poster le lien tu dois te souvenir de ce post.
Ce qui me conforte dans mon opinion c'est le soutien que j'ai eu dans la MA et par courrier de personnes qui ne s'expriment pas ici.
Débrouille toi pour le faire traduire ce message.
@Udie : don't forget your genes :D
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hmm....tres bien dit straffo.
there you are again hortland...making your witty jokes(posts) AGAIN on France.
then you ask what straffo is doin here.
hmm just to help you with his last post....
he says that he pretty much doesn't give a watermelon about your opinion anymore....he gots lots of e-mail from friends in the MA supportin em.....
hope this helps in your translation:D
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now for me to squeak at my cousin across the ocean......
La France commence a me tomber sur le nerfs mon straffo.....de plus en plus Chirac s'emmerde plus profondement dans ca propre merde....j'ai ecouter un documentaire hier soir....sur les raisons de la retissance de la France sur l'Iraq
je n'est pas aime ce que j'ai vue....mes du tous
excuse mon ecriture mon amie....mes je suis aller a l'ecole anglaise...soi patient avec moi:D
ces un chose de proteger ces interets(oil)...compagnie(ELF)....ces une autre vouloir controler L'Europe....Chirac et sur la corde raide....il va devoir s'excuser au plus petit pays qu'ils a abuser
bonne journee mon ami :cool:
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Originally posted by Hortlund
straffo...if you dont have anything to say...why not just shut up?Why do you have to post something in every thread about France?
Cant you just accept the fact and move on or something? I mean its not as if you are proving people wrong, or critizising the sources, or convincing people that France is a really nice country...
Hortland expecting SLO or Stratto to have a rational defense is like expecting a pig to toejam a gold bar.
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J'avoue que Chirac est plus que pesant sur cette histoire surtout sa sortie au sujets des pays de l'est.
D'un autre coté je trouve fabuleux qu'un pays voulant intégrer l'UE achete des avions US...
Vis à vis des US Chirac joue le même jeu que moi dans ce forum...
Une sorte de "Il vaut mieux mourir debout que vivre à genoux" et je ne peux lui donner tord.
Surtout que les US on beau jeu de nous dire qu'on les bloque alors que c'est eux-même qui on fixé les regles du jeu ...
De plus la pression constante de nos "amis" d'outre-atlantique commence à me faire chier profondément... pour prendre un exemple le week-end dernier j'ai passé 18 heures d'affilé a aider un de nos clients americain sur un de nos matériel hors-garantie...
En remerciement cette espece de [censuré] annule une commande car il n'aime pas l'attidude de la France mais ça il ne l'a dit qu'apres que l'on ait réparé le merdier que cette incroyable crétin avait causé à sa propre machine. C'est ce type d'attitude infantile et méprisante qui me hérisse le poil en aucun cas je vais me mettre à leur lécher les bottes si je suis en désaccord avec eux.
Je ne suis pas suedois moi.
C'est marrant comme cette anecdote est proche dela situation en Iraq avec un petit Sadam parvenu au pouvoir avec la bénédiction des US ... et même l'aides des US ...
Quand à ton documentaire es-tu sur qu'il était bien objectif ?
a t il parlé des dizaines de visites de Monsieur Rumsfeild du temps ou les US était du coté de Sadam ?
A-t-il parlé des interets US dans la région et de la véritable cause de l'engagement US ?
De comment une invasion de l'Iraq pourrait casser la pompe à pognon Saoudienne ?.
A il abordé le Wahabisme et l'origine des la prise de controle des Saoud sur l'Arabie Saoudite ?
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I wonder if he thinks anyone of us care enough to translate a post in French. :D
Especially when you know from his english posts what to expect.
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Can't expect anything else from a guy locating Argentina in the Gulf.
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Ils won s'enrager pourquoi vous parlez français. :)
Escusez-moi pour mon Français, il y a beaocoup de temp que je ne parle plus il, et j'ai oublie tous les mots et le riegles. :o
Salut. :)
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The fact that in all my many posts on France all you can sieze on is one typo is really quite a compliment.
:D
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unlike you habu....i try not to waste too much time finger pointing and tryin to be witty in my posts....
instead of whinning and squeakin at straffo about why this why that about France....I ASK HIS POV instead....see where i come from we call that CIVILITY...or if u prefer common sense:D
and why should i have rational defense ideas about something that is NOT mine...see I don't live in France....I live 1 hr away from the US/Canada boarder.....went many times to the states.....watch pretty much only american TV(reports...documentaries....sp ecials).....but unlike you...I also watch FRENCH tv....(reports doc...specials)
so my rational thinking is done in 2 languages...from 2 diff. perspectives(actually 3).....does that make me smarter....no not really....but it does give me a certain POV for which will be diff. then yours..
my last post in french to straffo ....I mentionned to em that France.....opss...mostly it prez...Chirac is royally gettin on my nerves.....I told em Y
He came back with a solid defense that will make me think a little harder.....but have no fear....I'll go thru his defense and pluck a french feather from his hide:D
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Originally posted by Naso
Ils won s'enrager pourquoi vous parlez français. :)
Escusez-moi pour mon Français, il y a beaocoup de temp que je ne parle plus il, et j'ai oublie tous les mots et le riegles. :o
Salut. :)
beuhh ...
C'est presque comme L'italien ;)
du moins a l'écrit :)
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Originally posted by SLO
unlike you habu....i try not to waste too much time finger pointing and tryin to be witty in my posts....
snip
so my rational thinking is done in 2 languages...from 2 diff. perspectives(actually 3).....does that make me smarter....no not really....but it does give me a certain POV for which will be diff. then yours..
my last post in french to straffo ....I mentionned to em that France.....opss...mostly it prez...Chirac is royally gettin on my nerves.....I told em Y
He came back with a solid defense that will make me think a little harder.....but have no fear....I'll go thru his defense and pluck a french feather from his hide:D
SLO I used to like France and have been there many times. I even worked for one of the French Oil companies for a while. (Good job, nice people, great pay). My beef with France is based on what I see them doing these past few years with regards to the EU, Mugabe, Iraq etc.
I sometimes think they do things just to be noticed, like a whiny spoiled child, what else would justify their actions?
The big change is that now in North American ( and many other countries in Europe I see) people (not just governments) are beginning to really hate the French because of their actions.
I am afraid that this is a real change that is not just based on their actions at the US lately. When common men on the street begin to say these things too you know that it is not healthy for the long term relationship with France and the EU and the US and the rest of the world.
Straffo just shows that people in France really do not think there is anything wrong with blackmailing the EU to let Mugabe in then turning around and claiming that England etc supported the decision. Such logic is baffling to me. Does he think everyone is stupid and would agree with such a stupid argument? I am afraid that I really think he does.
And if that is an example of the French character then it is only going to get worse for them I am sure.
You cannot have too many friends in the world today. EU countries and the US are good friends to have. I wonder what type of friends France is winning over these days by their actions? Perhaps Libya will be a good friend to them in the future when all those US tourists are no longer coming to Paris. Then France can show Paris to all their new Middle Eastern and African tourists.
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thx you for for not pointing the finger:) or bashing straffo....
I tend to agree with you as to France doin some real wierd watermelon these past times.....and I mentionned that to straffo....but don't forget France is NOT Iraq....there just defending there interest in a way I find confusing(I'm not used to seein France take such agressive stand on there POV).....
but so has the states(agressive stand)....lucky Powell(hope he runs next time around)is there cause the hawks(chenney....rums...wolfi) would be at war with everyone....I pretty much look to Powell when I watch US foreign relations....he's agressive but just....with a good read as to the mood of the UN.....
I agree that Saddam should be ousted.....but to do it WITHOUT the UN's OK is just not good in my book....many countries DEPEND on the UN to voice there opinions...if you take that away from them....chaos insuse
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You know, its hard not to laugh actually.
When straffo is confronted with some argument that he doesnt really know how to respond to (i e when even the good 'ol "I give a sweet to you"-replies wont work) he tends to either
a) start posting in french,
b) put you on his ignore list, or
c) put the entire thread on his ignore list.
Then he comes back a few minutes or hours later and post the same crap in another thread..or in the same thread. He keeps posting until he is cornered again, then he either
a) starts posting in french,
b) puts you on his ignore list, or
c) puts the entire thread on his ignore list.
Now SLO, I could not give two rats bellybutton about how many private emails he gets from his friends in the MA who supports him...I still think his defence of France is 99% BS. A few secret emails of support dont change that at all. Also one might wonder why the supporters dont want to reply in the thread but rather shoot off a secret email of support...
As for you straffo, you should make up your mind. Either you think Chiracs policy is ok, or you think that its not ok. If you go back in all the threads on Mugabe, Iraq or Economics, you will note that you are arguing both sides almost constantly. In one post you'll say "He is doing the right thing" in another post in the same thread you'll say "I dont agree with him". Then, as a compliment to this rather peculiar stance, you add a couple of insults, jokes, or unknown stuff posted in French.
ONLY A HANDFUL HERE UNDERSTANDS FRENCH AND NO ONE CAN BE BOTHERED TO RUN YOUR POSTS THROUGH BABLEFISH.
So when you post stuff in French, you might as well post random numbers instead, because to 90% of the readers here, it makes about as much sense.
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Don't you think we have bashed France enough?
How the hell do you expect Straffo to react? Then you tell him to shut up when you don't like his posts! BS Steve. If Sweden were getting the same level of vitriol you would be getting your back up too.
Hey everyone! France disagrees with us. Get over it!
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thx u target....but hortland is right in some aspects
difference is he's french....and tryin his best to type his ideas in English(while bein attacked on all fronts)....which can get real confusin at times...so i give straffo a little more lattitude....damn i get confused to sometimes....mostly its in the structuring of phrases to make others understand your ideas...
patience is a virtue hortland.....try it sometime
no offense intended
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Hey SLO.. how ya been?
:)
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SLO pour avoir mon opinion il te suffit de rechercher mes posts :)
Mais que l'on ne vienne pas me dire que Hortlund ou Habu sont des gents objectifs il suffit de regarder les threads qu'ils ont posté.
Aux dernieres nouvelles je n'ai pas commencé à les agresser ce sont eux qui on commencé a me pomper l'air.
De plus pour prendre le cas de Hortlund que pense tu de ma signature ?
Renseigne toi sur ce qui c'est passé a Oradour sur Glane et compare avec cette signature ensuite il te restera a chercher dans ce forum tout les posts ou Monsieur Hortlund exprime sa tres interessante vision de la barbarie nazie.
Quand à l'autre duestiste je pense sincerement que sa derniere copine devait être du Quebec ou de France pour que celui-ci ne fasse que dans le primaire de bas étage.
De même je m'interroge quand je vois les deux infâmes souligner le coté monstreux de Mugabé ils dormaient bien quand celui-ci ne tuait que des noirs cela ne les perturbait pas plus que ça ...
Et tout d'un coup depuis que celui-ci vient en France c'est limite si ce n'est pas nous Français qui l'avons mis au pouvoir... je sais que nous n'avons pas toujours été propres en politique étrangére mais dans ce cas précis je crois franchement que l'on y est pour rien.
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Hey Straffo check out my new sig.
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Oh really classy Straffo...
Since I saw my name in there, together with alot of words like nazi and racist, I decided to translate your post on bablefish.
You want to play it that way...fine. But you should be aware that badmouthing someone in a different language on a public forum is extremely bad manners. ESPECIALLY if you are accusing someone of being a racist without them having one chance of defending themselves.
The thing is Straffo...about your sig line...my quote. See I dont think you understand it actually. What I'm saying is that Oradur-Sur-Glane cannot be described as an allied warcrime...since the guilty ones were the Germans. Now I dont know what the history books look like in France, but in the rest of the world, Germany was not a member of the allies.
You are way over the line here Straffo. Way over the line.
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You didn't even bother to search your original post ?
Concerrning badmouthing it's the proof that babelfish can't translate anything right.
I was figuring how long it would take to someone to notice that ...
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Originally posted by straffo
You didn't even bother to search your original post ?
Why would I do that? Is there something there you think I should read? I mean its not as if I dont know or dont remember what I think about Oradur and what happened there.
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and btw when I post in French I've no effort to do and I'm more than pretty sure of the meaning of my sentences , it's also because my English is lacking.
And lastly I can use more subtility/nuances in a French post than in a English because of the "intreseque" structure of the language and this time it's English which is lacking not me.