Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Albacore on February 22, 2003, 09:23:00 AM

Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 22, 2003, 09:23:00 AM
I heard a lot of talk about possibly implementing an atomic bomb in AH II(by talk I just mean BS about how cool it would be and how it could be perked). My thinking is for the problem of blast radius and the inevitable killshooting, simply disable killshooting just for the effects of the bomb. Blast kills all enemies and all friendlies without the penalty for the offending b29. The logic being that killing your own will earn you enough scorn among your team to discourage irresponsible use of the tool. Otherwise, perked correctly, it could be a very interesting device indeed to use in missions.
Title: Nuclear Risk anyone
Post by: joeblogs on February 22, 2003, 09:38:41 AM
This would totally change the game as anyone who has played Nuclear Risk would tell you.

-Blogs
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Kirby on February 22, 2003, 04:49:37 PM
Only if a country could use it once every 10 hours, also, how would you choose who would drop it?
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: funkedup on February 22, 2003, 05:29:39 PM
I'm sure even a nuke wouldn't hurt the Porkwind's gun crew.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Squire on February 22, 2003, 05:45:15 PM
Nukes in AH is far and away the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 22, 2003, 06:44:21 PM
Thanks for that constructive opinion squire. You should appeal to the governments of the world, stating that nuclear weapons in general are far and away the dumbest thing you've ever heard of.
If you don't like the thread, keep your nose out of it.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: GRUNHERZ on February 22, 2003, 07:04:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Albacore
Thanks for that constructive opinion squire. You should appeal to the governments of the world, stating that nuclear weapons in general are far and away the dumbest thing you've ever heard of.
If you don't like the thread, keep your nose out of it.



So nobody is allowed to disagree with you?

I dont want nuclear weapons in AH either....
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 22, 2003, 07:24:48 PM
Disagreements I don't mind. Somebody saying 'it's dumb' or 'retarded' or whatnot is not constructive. If he had something convincing to say I woudn't have said a thing concerning his reply.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: ispar on February 23, 2003, 01:46:20 AM
How are we supposed to disagree constructively on a matter that is, frankly, dumb? Possibly even retarded.

It's a stupid idea. It's not nice, but it's true. What is there to construct?
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Squire on February 23, 2003, 02:33:37 AM
Nuclear bombs have no place in a flight sim that is about WW2 air combat.

They were used twice only, on 2 missions that ended the war, they would be impossible to integrate into the game properly, they have almost no historic relevence to WW2 campaigns, they would be hugely unbalancing to any side that had a few to drop.

The biggest reason is that it would turn AH into: Nuke Birds, with every dimwitt in the world getting his rocks off trying to drop one somewhere.

Its a very bad idea that would not work. I understand Janes F-18 has a hack program that enables a tac nuke as a loadout. Go fly that.

Toodles.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: WhiteHawk on February 23, 2003, 10:58:27 AM
I think v-1's and v-2's should come in AH way before nukes do.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Arlo on February 23, 2003, 11:13:01 AM
Now the question is .... how much closer is the end of time than never. ;)
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 23, 2003, 01:32:58 PM
I've actually played the f22 sim that has a ten kiloton tac nuk as a loadout option. Can't say the single weapon option really changed the game that much. Despite the plentiful opinions circulating on this subjct, nobody really has the authority to say whether or not it would work. If nuclear weapons are treated more like CVs, are controlled stricklyand given to every team on an equal level(at least at the start of the map) then it really could add something new to the game. No, I'm not envisioning fleets of little-boy equipped superfortresses going to bomb a VH. Nuclear bases could be added and used in a new, far more controlled way. Either way, since we've never seen it, there's no precedent and thus nothing really to discuss. I personally believe that Ah and games like it should embrace new and unique options and let the player decide to how to use them. That being said, it's almost always better to have more options than fewer. Also, cocnerning the limited use of nukes in WWII, let's be honest fellas. Reality of WWII and the MA don't have too much in common. Guys upping into vulched fields, divebombing Lancs, tanks exploding on contact with trees. A little controlled nuclear presance could be a viable element in this game and if nothing else, a great thing to watch from a distance. Anyway, just wanted to point out that this issue is far from cut and dried and plenty of people are on both sides of the argument.

Toodles yourself.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Squire on February 23, 2003, 03:39:48 PM
"and if nothing else, a great thing to watch from a distance"

I rest my case.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Innominate on February 23, 2003, 04:44:25 PM
Nukes are one of the things that sound 'neat', but when any real thought is given to thier addition, it's obvious there is no place for them.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: palef on February 23, 2003, 05:46:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
Nukes are one of the things that sound 'neat', but when any real thought is given to thier addition, it's obvious there is no place for them.


I can't think of a better way to get all the MAWS simultaneously :D

(Just Kidding!)

palef
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Innominate on February 23, 2003, 06:26:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by palef
I can't think of a better way to get all the MAWS simultaneously :D


Ok so there is one good use for them. :p
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: loser on February 23, 2003, 06:48:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Albacore
Thanks for that constructive opinion squire. You should appeal to the governments of the world, stating that nuclear weapons in general are far and away the dumbest thing you've ever heard of.
If you don't like the thread, keep your nose out of it.


Now that is one heck of an idea!

My take on global relations is parrellel to this way of thinking.

Some attacks your country?  A cleanly delivered "you suck!" would send the attacking country into instant retreat.

Trade barriers and tarriffs getting you down? Try a mother joke or two!

If your opponent is a woman, try calling her a squeak to all her allies behind her back.  Works every time.

In the worst case scenario, say the threat of MAD global thermonuclear war, all can be settled with a slap fight after school by the bike racks.  

Damn good thinking soldier, damn good.








:D
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Shark88 on February 23, 2003, 07:21:27 PM
the bomb "little boy" that was dropped on Hiroshima only had a blast radious of 5 miles.  It could work as a special mission or something ;)
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: M.C.202 on February 23, 2003, 09:26:01 PM
Note...This post is one half tounge-in-cheek:p  This is a warning for the humor impaired.

Humm, lets see what is and is not in the game (and production numbers are as I remember, errors may happen)
pre end-war.....line production..issued to units.....used in combat.....effected war
P40Q....(2).........no.................. ...no........................ ........no................... .no
P-51H.(500)......yes.................... yes.......................... .....no....................no
F7F.....(380)......yes.................... yes.......................... .....no....................no
F8F.....(400?)....yes....................ye s............................ ...no....................no
F80 ....(45)........yes.................. ..yes........................ .......no.................... no
B29..(2,500+)...yes....................yes ............................. ..yes...................yes
Me163.(350).....yes....................y es........................... ....yes...................no
Me262.(1,400)..yes....................yes. ............................. .yes...................yes
Ta152..(20?).....yes....................y es........................... ....yes...................no
Fat Man.(1*)......yes...................y es........................... ....yes...................yes
Little Boy.(1*)....yes...................yes ............................. ..yes...................yes
* Production was at the eight to ten per month rate at the end of the war.

"Nuclear bombs have no place in a flight sim that is about WW2 air combat."

Like the Tiger, Pkw IV, and PT boats do?

"They were used twice only, on 2 missions that ended the war,"

Both use and effect during the war.

"...they would be impossible to integrate into the game properly, they have almost no historic relevence to WW2 campaigns,"

They ended one to two years of combat in the Pacific and Far East, sounds like historic relevence to WW2 campaigns to me.

"they would be hugely unbalancing to any side that had a few to drop"

That's war for you. Sort of like killing your self to get back in the air faster or any of the other "not real" features? The only way to have true "balance" would to have one aircraft type for everone to fly.

How about if your "country" is willing to put 20% of all perk points into the "research program" from the start of a month (week, reset, tour, whatever), you get the chance to use two in the last 10% of the time period?

If not that, how about just adding the B-29. Or the P-40Q.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 23, 2003, 09:45:51 PM
This thread's getting old. Frankly, I apologize for starting it. No hard feelings I hope. Some good sushi and a nice pair of boobs is all I really want. In fact, I'll even take them over Atom bombs.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: SunKing on February 23, 2003, 10:08:05 PM
"I heard a lot of talk about possibly implementing an atomic bomb in AH "

Huh possibility ? Pyro probably got a good laugh outta this.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Squire on February 23, 2003, 11:27:46 PM
P-40Q and B-29, and a Ki-84 to go with them, that would be great.

Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Clemenza on February 24, 2003, 12:36:50 AM
I think that Nuclear weapons should only be used in a limited fashion. Whenever the Bishops are winning, a hundred megaton device is set off in the exact center of the map, accomplishing everything and nothing simultaneously. A prayer would then be said to the nuke gods and we'd move on to the next map--unless of course it's pizza, in which case all bets are off.







:D
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Pongo on February 24, 2003, 01:05:20 AM
"The logic being that killing your own will earn you enough scorn among your team to discourage irresponsible use of the tool. "


thats a classic.
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: capt. apathy on February 24, 2003, 08:47:05 AM
hey ended one to two years of combat in the Pacific and Far East,
_______________________

wouldn't 'ending combat' be a bad thing for this game/sim ?
that would be my biggest worry.
Title: Re: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Sakai on February 24, 2003, 08:47:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Albacore
I heard a lot of talk about possibly implementing an atomic bomb in AH II(by talk I just mean BS about how cool it would be and how it could be perked). My thinking is for the problem of blast radius and the inevitable killshooting, simply disable killshooting just for the effects of the bomb. Blast kills all enemies and all friendlies without the penalty for the offending b29. The logic being that killing your own will earn you enough scorn among your team to discourage irresponsible use of the tool. Otherwise, perked correctly, it could be a very interesting device indeed to use in missions.


Albacore:

I politely disagree.  We had a thread, I started it, called:

Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb

and I think I make the points well enough there.  Basically, the A-bomb represented the end of the romance of air warfare.  The idea of dogfighting, while still germane to pilots, really only exists in the days prior to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki incidents.  Given also that the arenas are too small for the use of such, you're basically talking about altering the world of AH for 2 seconds of pre-pubescent ridiculousness that has nothing in common in any real way with aerial combat.  The impact of one man in a 29 outstrips anything that we all profess to love when we get excited about a P-40, 190, Spitfire, etc.  It is therefore not relevant to this game.  

If we had a B-29/A-bomb equipped arena, I'd like these to be the last two additions to the game, after the Gloster gladiator, Cr32, CR42, Fiat Br20, Mig-3, Ju-52, Me-410, Henschel 123, LaGG-3, P-39/P-400, I-16, Ki-84, Do-17, Wellington, PBY, B-25, Cant Herone, Sunderland, Heinkell 115, He-111, P108, SM 79, Z1007, Brewster, Finnish Myrsky, Dewoitine, Petoz, Fiesler Storch, Taylor L-5, Dutch Fokkers, Helldiver, Baltimore, Grace, Betty, Nell, Lilly, Sally, Ann, Manchester, Kingfisher, Hudson, Blenheim, Stirling, Saetta, etc., etc., after every other plane, fine.  

Make the B-29 and A bomb well after all relevant ground vehicles and some just for fun have been introduced, make it after artillery and infantry, Japanese Destroyers, German VIICs (U-Boootwaffen), Italian transport planes, English armor, merchant ships for supply operations, Russian rocket launchers, and assorted coastal patrol craft of all nationalities mounting open 3"-5" guns and various caliber MG.  

Model after love is gone, romance is dead, Chivalry slain, comaraderie forsaken, and all hope is lost, for that is what the A-bomb stands for.  

In fact, only model it to have a perpetual A-Bob Arena with sides having a bunch of extremely large cities defended by 163s, Salamanders, F8s, F7s, and 262s and B-29s and A-bombs.  Play to your hearts' content, but not until the CR42 and Brewster Buffalo have had their say, and one man versus one man in honorable combat has been played to its death knell.  Something which obviates the A-bomb entirely, since that knell has not tolled, as we still pine for it as evidenced by our participation here.

Thanks for the thread,

Yours,

Sakai
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Arlo on February 24, 2003, 05:10:13 PM
What Sakai said ... what I should have said ... from Sakai's lips to HT/Pyro's ears ... make it so, ensign ... damn the torpedos ... I have but infinite lives to give for my virtual AH country.

And no retraining in TOD!

:D
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 24, 2003, 07:17:34 PM
http://users.leh.net/~kevin/jolene/htm/htm-image/jola3.shtml


I'm gonna consider this the end of the conversation
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Major_Hans on February 25, 2003, 10:04:17 PM
No skill = no fun

You have to WORK for something for it to feel good that you acomplished something.  You did it!   You won!  You prevailed!



Using a nuke is how difficult?  Fly over a base, drop a bomb more or less accurately, and leave before it lands.

There is no challenge in that.  It makes sense in the real world to have bigger weapons than the other guy to scare him from attacking you.

In  a game you want to be pitting against each other on a level playing field where there are ups and downs and a long battle.  Nukes do not do that.
Title: Re: Atomic Weapons
Post by: ramzey on February 25, 2003, 10:58:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Albacore
I heard a lot of talk about possibly implementing an atomic bomb in AH II(.


who tould u that?
u should stop talk with him, bicose he know nothing

NO ATOMIC BOMB IN AH, remember that
never

ramzey
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Albacore on February 25, 2003, 11:55:34 PM
Die Thread! Die! Die!
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Arlo on February 26, 2003, 12:15:38 AM
I just want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that adding a Spanish Civil War planeset and terrain is a much much better idea than modeling A-bombs. :D
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Shark88 on February 26, 2003, 02:02:49 PM
But it ened the war!!
Title: spanish war plane set
Post by: joeblogs on February 26, 2003, 08:39:38 PM
That would be cool. - blogs


Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
I just want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that adding a Spanish Civil War planeset and terrain is a much much better idea than modeling A-bombs. :D
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: bockko on February 26, 2003, 09:27:30 PM
Before we get atomic weapons, lets add phasers and photon torpedoes
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: wetrat on February 27, 2003, 03:09:21 PM
Anyone who would want a nuke in this game is absolutely retarded...
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: Shark88 on February 27, 2003, 03:14:06 PM
the dropping of the bombs was the most important part of the plus it is the first time an atomic weapon has been used
Title: Atomic Weapons
Post by: palef on February 27, 2003, 04:30:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bockko
Before we get atomic weapons, lets add phasers and photon torpedoes


YEAH!!! And Romulan Disruptor beams!!!!!!


And I want a light sabre for my pilot so when I bail out over an enemy field I can run through the lines of enemy aircraft and slash their tyres!!


COOOOOOOL

palef