Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: hazed- on February 22, 2003, 07:17:54 PM
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We keep seeing requests for atomic weapons which only saw use twice in WW2 but what about the other super-weapons????
I recently saw a programme about the Vengence weapons from the Germans during WW2 and i was very suprised by the numbers that were involved!!
It wasnt just one or two of these crazy rocket bombs! they fired hundreds!
The documentory mentioned the V1. The worlds first intercontinental missile which left the earths atmosphere and crashes to the ground at some 4000mph! totally unstoppable.
Many missed the mark or failed on re-entry but get this!...... At the height of their use they were firing THIRTY a day!!.
Surely if they were used so often and in such large numbers they should be perfectly ok to consider for this game?. I realise weapons like these can be unsuitable but stop a moment and consider.
If we had V1 or V2 as a perk weapon we could make it so that they can only be fired from one or two locations and require that the player who fires them has to spawn on these locations but have to wait say 10 minutes for fueling and launch sequence.
This way they would sit there totally exposed to attack.The enemy have a chance to send a specialised ground attack to stop the launches.I think this could really be fun.
As the bombs dont really cause enough damage to total a base they wouldnt upset play much.
Also their price could be so high that a single player is unlikely to afford one. Make it so a few players have to club together to buy one.
say they cost 1000 perks(or 900) and three players put in 330 perks in to build one.all 3 have to sit and watch their baby prepare for launch as others attempt to blow it up on the runway!
it could even destroy half the base if its stopped just for fun :)
whaddaya think?
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I like the idea but I thought the V2s only carried 2k of high explosive. With that payload, you'd need a pretty direct hit to do much of anything on the AH map.
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2000 poudns reentering the atmosphere at ungodly mach numbers. It did a lot more damage then a normal 2k bomb would.
The V2 would be cool but I wouldn't use it. Now V1's yes those would be cool. What about the Fritz and the other glider bombs?
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COuld V1s be multiple air-dropped from bombers? The only real problem I can see with that is dozens of stray buzz bombs flying off the map.
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oops sorry got the v1 and v2 mixxed up
the 30 a day was for the rocket based missile(V2?). the numbers for the smaller flying bomb (V1?) were more of course.
the 2000lbs of explosive wasnt that much but it did arrive at 4000mph! :) that would total pretty much any of the buldings we have. And really it would be used on strategic targets like factories or the city or the HQ id guess. These bases have a nice dense area of targets to hit.
Basically id like to see them so that
a) we could have low level rocket/bomb attacks in fighters or bombers on the fueling missiles with the SPECTACULAR explosion as we destroy it :)
b) if its the flying bomb versionn we could chase it with tempests and other fast planes and perhaps even tip the gyro like they did by flying close or even touching the wings over. A great new skill to learn and fun to try.
c) As the war comes to an end and the enemy are down to last few bases perhaps they could be allowed more missiles for less perks in order to have fun striking back even though they are about to lose.(just like the dang germans) :D
d) it would be a great perk weapon to save up for.I'd really like to have some sort of camera for the players to sit in the bomb for the ride. Not realistic maybe but it would be spectacular to watch.
e) possibilities for scenarios. ie same missions the allies tried in order to stop them.
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The V-2 did less damage than the V-1. They were travelling so fast that they were buried in the ground before the warhead went off, so made a deep but narrow crater. V-1s detonated on the surface and did far more damage to surrounding buildings.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
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Originally posted by Albacore
COuld V1s be multiple air-dropped from bombers? The only real problem I can see with that is dozens of stray buzz bombs flying off the map.
Many V-1s were launched from He 111s, but IIRC they only carried one each - and they were even less accurate than land-launched ones.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
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The V2 had a large impact as a terror weapon. It arrived and went off before you could hear it coming, and there was absolutely no warning for the populace, unlike the V1 which would trigger the air raid warning system.
Imagine a 1 ton explosion THEN the sound of it arriving well after the rubble has stopped falling.
palef
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Other special weapons could be:
Fritz X guided bomb dropped from the He177 or Do217 added with it.
12,000lb Tall Boy bomb dropped from the Lancaster.
12,000lb bomb that was basically three "Cookies" bolted together and dropped from the Lancaster.
22,000lb Grand Slam dropped from the Lancaster Mk I Special added with it.
Ohka "Baka" suicide rocket dropped from the G4M2 "Betty" added with it. (Would cost perks with no way of refunding them other than landing the G4M2 with the Ohka still attached)
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"Cruise missles and CBMs High" :rolleyes:
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Gotta admit, it'd make a fun mission for allied players in the new AH2:TOD.. Tempests chasing down V1s.. mmmm...
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I don't think I would want V1's or V2's unless their inadequacies were modelled as well (ie. almost no chance of hitting what they're aimed at). If terror were modelled in Aces High, I think it would be a great addition. But if it were done right, I can't see why something like this wouldn't be a fun thing to have.
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Originally posted by palef
The V2 had a large impact as a terror weapon. It arrived and went off before you could hear it coming, and there was absolutely no warning for the populace, unlike the V1 which would trigger the air raid warning system.
palef
I think that the V-1 had a worse effect on morale. Not only did you get the air raid sirens to get your nerves on edge, you could hear the damn things coming. The worst was when the noise stopped, because that meant that the autopilot had shut off the fuel and put the thing into a nose-dive. That was a real heart-stopper if it was close when the engine stopped...
With the V-2, OTOH, it was all over before you realised anything was happening. Still not easy on the nerves, I agree.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and Discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
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My father had a very close shave with a V1. It narrowly missed hitting the top of the hill he was on and went and descended into the town below, hitting a cinema, IIRC.
V2s and V1s might make an interesting addition to AH2, but I'd suggest that they be automated and not under player control.
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How about some 11.75" Tiny Tim Rockets for the USN.
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The A-Bombs in AH are a waste of time - no way to implement them that I can see that would be fair to all.
The V-1 has possibilities though. Listen to this and see what you think.
1. GROUND LAUNCHED VERSION:
They could be set up on the coast of a ETO set-up on fixed ramps just like the real ones were. These ramps would have a spawn time just like everything else in the AH world. This would also make another Tactical target on the board to take out and give the oposite side a chance to stop their firing. Add a couple of A/A guns like the VH.
2. AIR LANCHED VERSION:
These would be launched from a bomber once it has reached a specific alt and are in range of the target. These could be launched from any bomber field and flown to directions the other side wouldn't expect them to come from (i.e from fixed launch sites). You might perk these 1 point because they would be harder to intercept.
3. TARGETING:
No big one here - aim them just like you do the guns on a cruiser useing the mouse pointer and the map on your kneeboard. This will provide for the less than perfect accuracy of the original V-1.
4. INTERCEPTION:
Have a big value on them so if they are intercepted by air or shot down they will give some pretty good points to the shooter. You might want to set up some manable 5" or 88mm type flak guns with the proxi shells on the enemy coast so there will be a chance to intercept them before they get to target. Air intercept could be done by the Tempests till we get the Meteor.
5. SET-UP:
The easiest way to do this would most likely be to add the ramp to a regular VH. That way you would have a series of targets together as well as have extra protection available from vehicle based AA. You could put these "modified VH's" all along the coast area or at just a few select spots at your leasure. The CM's could also deactivate the V-1 if they were doing another scenario on the same map.
6. CONCLUSION:
This could provide and added intrest to the game IMO. It would give more targets to both bomb and shoot at, provide the Axis a means to hit Allied fields in leu of their bombers being inferior to the Late War Allied fighters, maybe up the number of Allied Tac & Stretigic bomber sorties flown.
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Andijg: I pretty much agree on everything you pointed out:)
How about them being perked somewhat low (bomber perks?). The reload time on the ramp would be some as well (say 5 or 10 minutes).
Targeting: pretty much as you put it, add a little error as well, and make the player decide cruising alt (because of mountains).
Once in the air, they would appear on radar. Their cruising speed was in RL a tad lower than the max speed of a Tempest and Spit XIV (maybe not our version, could be a boosted up and clipped one). Shoot them carefully, for they EXPLODE.
At night they left a long and well visible Flare from the pulse engine, so they could be intercepted in darkness as well.
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Although this has nothing to do with bringing the V1 and V2 to AH I thought it was interesting.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-Loon.htm
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To avoid detonating the potentially dangerous payload, pilots often used the wing of their aircraft to tip the buzz bombs out of level flight and send them tumbling down to the ground--which would hopefully be vacant of anything valuable. Personally, I'd like to see this tactic used in AH but it seems there might be more difficulty associated with implementing it than fun. Baka bomb is an interesting idea. It will finally allow partially shot-down morons such as myself to actually do some damage when we come augering in.
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Weren't later V1s boobytrapped to explode when tipped?
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Would make sense. Would be interesting to have both versions but not the ability to tell the difference in flight.
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V2s would re-enter the atmosphere at MACH 4-5. Most times, when they did hit their mark, they wiped out 2 square blocks of buildings in London, mostly just due to their sheer speed and the crater that left behind...
However, a V1 would be cool. I dont think 10min would be cool. Maybe 5. And they player could rotate them like field guns to point them at their target. Would require rather precise aiming if they were trying to hit a town (which would be pretty freakin cool to see impact!).
S!
F4URidge
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The use of mach speed weapons that are unstopable (even though they were used in WWII, and after all this is a WWII sim) HT might find them to powerful. If they were going to be used there should be a limit to how many are used at a time, and deffenetly perked somhow =) my 2 cents
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Originally posted by qts
Weren't later V1s boobytrapped to explode when tipped?
It was dangerous to shoot them as you more than likely will fly through or near the explosion. Germany did "release" this information to stop the pilots from tipping. When you think abou it you dont really need to put a anti tampering device in it, just say you did.
Would you want to be the one to see if that device is there?
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Hi Tony,
>The worst was when the noise stopped, because that meant that the autopilot had shut off the fuel and put the thing into a nose-dive.
Actually, the autopilot pushed the V-1 into a dive with engine running, and a deficiency of the fuel system caused the engine to stop as a result. This was not intentional and apparently, when reports about it reached the German engineers, the design was changed to avoid it.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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IIRC with the money third reich spent for developing/manufacturing V-2 missiles it could manufacture over 20.000 Bf109 fighters.
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Tks Angus, agree with some of the items you brought up as well. Some more notes to my post above:
LAUNCH ABILITY:
Agree there needs to be some kind of time limit set to keep players from just "Hoseing" these things off right and left. We need to have something like a 5 minute window. When you spawn one onto the launch ramp from the VH it will take 3 to 5 minutes (no more than 5 to keep it interesting) to fuel & ready before you can launch it. This will keep single or multiple players from jumping in and out of a position to increase the amount of V-1'ss that could be fired. Maybe you would have to take command of the ramp like you do for the task forces.
RADAR: As the V-1's usually cruised pretty high they should show plainly on radar and fighters could vector into attack or gun positions could be manned to try and shoot them down.
EYE CANDY: Of course we will HAVE to have the motor noise and the long visible jet exaust that Angus mentioned. Will make them easier to spot and intercept.
NOTES ON THE FZG-76 (V-1 Buzz Bomb):
Warhead: 1,870 lbs.
Speed: 360 mph (at Ave. Cruise Alt.), 408 mph (at 9,845ft - 3,000 meters)
Attack Cruise Altitude: 3,500 to 4,000 ft. Ave.
Range: 130 miles
Accuracy: At max range, 80% would fall in a 8 mile circle
INTERCEPTS:
Of the 9,251 fired against England - 4,621 were destroyed before making it to their target. Of the 6,551 fired against Antwerp - 2,445 were destroyed before hitting their target.
Here is a list of the top squadrons of "V-1 KILLERS": (Please note they are all Prop plane squadrons!)
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Which it didnt have pilots for. Nore fuel for.
The only way they could get a bomb to Britian was by this method.
the real battle concerning them was in taking down the launch points. Almost no one was killed hunting the missles themselves. But the campaign against the launch points was expensive to the tune of 100s if not 1000s of aircraft.
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Weren't later V1s boobytrapped to explode when tipped?
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You can check the sound of a real "Buzz Bomb" attack on London at the link below: (Turn it up LOUD)
http://www.1940.co.uk./history/sound/v1.ram
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grand slam!
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selector, we got the "mini grand slam" on the stuka :D