Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TheManx on February 23, 2003, 08:23:37 PM
-
Wow, logged in to find 700 of 700 players in the game. Game wouldn't let me in. Congrats to HTC for being so appealing that this becomes a problem, but could we get a second MA now?
-
I agree...700 is too many for most maps.
-
Yup something has to be done. I have to say I am real selfish and have been here since beta, and it pisses me off when Icant get in.
-
Please!
I find the game to be prettymuch unplayable with over 400 players. Not because of lag, but simply the sheer number of people who get compressed into such small areas.
-
Could it be just the "free till March 15" bounce in numbers?
But it will get there eventually...... so, I lean towards a 2nd MA now. As long as we can get 150+ on a small map or 300+ on the big ones, there's plenty to do.
-
Been secretly wishing for a 2nd arena ever since the AW influx of people. I find that now I don't enjoy AH as much as I used to mostly because of the huge numbers. Me and the squaddies have been visiting the CT more often, but to be quite honest, I find that sometimes the CT is too limiting, not truely a viable option for me.
-
Hmmm, maybe this is a great opportunity for a European and Pacific theater?
-
I think that paying for a service should mean you can still get into the MA (after all that is what we are paying for right?). Please open a second MA (or boot the trialers?) rather than denying subscribers access to the service they are paying for...
-
There are many arenas already. If the MA is full, why not play in Combat Theater. For me that is even more interesting (historic gameplay) but usually there are too few players in there.
IMO the correct solution is not to create more arenas, but to enlarge the existing MA (more players, bigger maps)
-
Time for a European server?
But more players = more targets :D
Lucky me that I play at times when the server isn't so overcrowded.
-
even with 600 on the small maps... most of the fields are deserted.
lazs
-
Originally posted by TimRas
There are many arenas already. If the MA is full, why not play in Combat Theater. For me that is even more interesting (historic gameplay) but usually there are too few players in there.
Then you go to the CT and give me your MA spot.
-
Definately time for a second MA. The server has probs already dealing with over 500 online. I think the European, Pacific idea is good, and also limit aircraft to only those flown in those theatres.
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Definately time for a second MA. The server has probs already dealing with over 500 online. I think the European, Pacific idea is good, and also limit aircraft to only those flown in those theatres.
so you want 675 people in Euro arena and 25 in Pac arena?
when will you all realize the pac planeset is insufficient at present to appeal to any significant number to populate such an arena?
-
Yes it is very laggy lately, while havent'been locked out yet. I don't get a connection as quick as I used to . Rubber bullets are up a bit and planes warping to hell and gone.
-
I personally dont think the map size has anything to do with the lag, but rather it is the sheer numbers of players feeding information into the server. I have seen just as much lag with the big maps as the smaller ones. Just think about 500-700 players all feeding information to the server with their:
alt, speed, ammo loadout, direction, location, the planes they see and what type of plane they are, then you engage one or more and now you have to feed, number of rounds expended, number of hits, amount of damage you see (enmy has to feed damage he sees as received).
I am by no means a network or computor wize but it sure looks like this is the problem to me.
ab8aac
out
-
Personally I like having lots of people, it gives me more targets to shoot at! The maps are plenty big enough to handle the load. My hearts go out to those paying and otherwise who could not get in. It's bad publicity to have a full server. I did not have any abnormal lag problems last night at full capacity.
Don't get me wrong, it's time for expansion. But hats off to HTC guys for great game!!!! Lovin every minute of it!!
-
Chalk up a vote for a Euro/Pac split.
-
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Chalk up a vote for a Euro/Pac split.
you honestly think the pac planeset would be appealing in it's present state?
if a 3rd (2nd is CT) arena is made, i'd rather just see it be another "MA" perhaps using a rotation of CT terrains as it'd probably be less populated. but then, that's part of the CT appeal, so, scratch that, use standard MA maps.
you'd see 500-700 in "main" MA and 100-300 in "alternate" MA.
people always go where the numbers are.
-
HTC should increase the price to say $29.95 or at least $19.95 to limit it to those who are dedicated players:)
-
I would happily pay more for warpless MA. But not if things remain as they are.
-
Player density is very much a factor concerning lag. Remember, all that data being transmitted to the server also has to be transmitted back to other players. The more players in close proximity to you the more data that must be transmitted both by the server and through your pipe.
Map size alone doesn't alleviate congestion. Players may still congregate in only a few areas. That is the reason we created multiple fronts in the Desert map. Hoping to create many smaller fights instead of a few big ones.
Originally posted by aac
I personally dont think the map size has anything to do with the lag, but rather it is the sheer numbers of players feeding information into the server. I have seen just as much lag with the big maps as the smaller ones. Just think about 500-700 players all feeding information to the server with their:
alt, speed, ammo loadout, direction, location, the planes they see and what type of plane they are, then you engage one or more and now you have to feed, number of rounds expended, number of hits, amount of damage you see (enmy has to feed damage he sees as received).
I am by no means a network or computor wize but it sure looks like this is the problem to me.
ab8aac
out
-
So we should all go out and buy T3 connections then - NOT.
Or........maybe the 2nd MA could be for DSL, cable or better connections only.
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
So we should all go out and buy T3 connections then - NOT.
Or........maybe the 2nd MA could be for DSL, cable or better connections only.
Just say no to humongous furballs.
-
But thats half the fun.....can't give up my furballs, I'll get no kills at all, lol.
-
Definately time for a second MA. The server has probs already dealing with over 500 online. I think the European, Pacific idea is good, and also limit aircraft to only those flown in those theatres.
LOL! Welcome to Air Warrior folks :)
FYI, HiTech Creation's Staff, seperate arenas and plane sets, ETO, PAC, etc worked well in Air Warrior. Granted the ETO theartre was not full to capacity all the time but there were alot of peeps playing on certain nights. In fact, they actually had 3-5 ETO arenas going at once.
Just more food for thought.
-
I'd like to see a second MA as well... tho i've wanted that for months
I am extremely dissappointed to see paying players unable to join the MA ...
SKurj
-
Originally posted by JB42
Hmmm, maybe this is a great opportunity for a European and Pacific theater?
There isnt enough Japanese planes in the plane set yet to make a Pac arena viable.
Elfie
Armageddon Pile-it
-
This sucks....log'd on to see 600 plus people in the MA..Could people even get off the ground?? Must have been a warp fest from hell..
I just leave not to bother with playing
The load on the server needs to be cut back to 400-500...700 is just too many!!!!:mad:
-
My vote ( if I actually have one ) goes to a second MA with the same maps we use now rotated as it is now by reset. The trick is never have the same map running in both MA's
-
One solution to an overloaded server, if that is the case, would be to split a map in half and run each half on a separate server.
Of course there would then be a region where planes heading toward the other half wouldn't see nearby planes approaching them but still on the other server. Unless a middle region could be negotiated between the servers in which data is shared between them.
Could even establish a dmz where no enemies are spotted until well within the boundary of the server, this would prevent an enemy from suddenly appearing at close range.
Some information could be continuously transferred between the servers such as all text communications, roster info, and radar.
Anyhow, the lag problem may not be the result of an overloaded server.
-
Either need to have the MA at 1000 working with no warpage, etc... or 2-3 MA arenas with about a 450 max. I agree that the current planeset doesn't support Euro / Pac arenas. It is a drag not being able to play now. I've gone in a couple of times at about 600-650 and the warps, lag, ghosts, rubber-bullets, etc... was a bad joke. I've gone from that to 60 people in the CT, fly around looking for a fight for an hour in some lousy plane you don't like and never fly (not fun).
Edited to add: Of course to those who keep saying they'd "Gladly pay more"..... that's just ignorant. Sheesh...
-
Quote "Anyhow, the lag problem may not be the result of an overloaded server"
Explain then why when the numbers are low the MA is virtually lag and warp free, yet as it approaches then passes 500 lags become horrendous.
They seem to be most prevalent (in an osty) with cons warping from 1.9k to 1.2k.
In aircraft most of mine consist of aircraft disappearing / reappearing and warps within the 800yd range, sometimes very wierd i.e. from 600 out to 1k+, then behind you ,then back in front etc.
This never seems to happen when the MA numbers are low, so it must be tied to MA numbers.
-
Adding a 2nd main arena makes sense to me, and I also agree that the Japanese planeset is too small for a separate PTO server.
What about splitting them by time frame? One MA could be the full planeset, while the 2nd could be just early to mid-war aircraft.
That way many of the early-war aircraft introduced in the last few releases could have a place to fly without being so incredibly outclassed by the LA-7, N1K2, and P-51s...
The Spit IX and 190A-5 could be the perked A/C....
-
Originally posted by Kev367th
Quote "Anyhow, the lag problem may not be the result of an overloaded server"
Explain then why when the numbers are low the MA is virtually lag and warp free, yet as it approaches then passes 500 lags become horrendous.
They seem to be most prevalent (in an osty) with cons warping from 1.9k to 1.2k.
In aircraft most of mine consist of aircraft disappearing / reappearing and warps within the 800yd range, sometimes very wierd i.e. from 600 out to 1k+, then behind you ,then back in front etc.
This never seems to happen when the MA numbers are low, so it must be tied to MA numbers.
When I say server I mean it literally as the computer running the server software. Without the facts I can only guess but imo it's just as likely to be the network that is being overloaded.
Furthermore, not necessarily HTCs network and Internet connection that is being overloaded but rather Individual player connections, especially dial-ups, when player concentration gets high.
-
There's plenty to do if the MA is full.. CT is quite fun. If you crybabies pull up to a Mcdonald's drive thru and see a line there, do you demand they build another right next to it? The MA has shown full what.... one night? and already you guys are screaming for more more more... spoiled brats... are you never happy?
-
Second arena would be good, would need to be a clone of the current MA, with the exception of perhaps maps in a different rotation. This would give people a choice of two terrain alternatives at any given time.
Set a trigger population in MA 1 before MA 2 would open to avoid not having enough play concentration during light usage hours.
-
Two MA's is not the answer.....bigger, cooler maps is the answer with the average distance between fields at two sectors.
-
Originally posted by Steve
If you crybabies pull up to a Mcdonald's drive thru and see a line there, do you demand they build another right next to it?
Actually i just then go somewhere else. If there were enough demographic then indeed yes someone would build another one.
-
You bet they would Maxtor, excellent point! But not after one day of the first Mcdonalds being over-loaded.
-
Originally posted by AKIron
When I say server I mean it literally as the computer running the server software. Without the facts I can only guess but imo it's just as likely to be the network that is being overloaded.
Furthermore, not necessarily HTCs network and Internet connection that is being overloaded but rather Individual player connections, especially dial-ups, when player concentration gets high.
Skuzzy says they have eliminated the server hardware as the cause. Whatever is causing it (software likely?) it doesn't happen until a lot of people are on - and it stops when enough people log off. I'm no computer super genious, but this certainly seems to be a cause and effect relationship of some sort.
-
Separate arenas--rather, the lack of separate arenas--has always been a huge weakness of AH. AH is now experiencing many of the big problems I have been predicting for years. Fixing the lag--if that's even possible--won't make all those problems diappear. The CT, while a noble cause, represents a poor alternative to the MA due to odd settings and limited choice and it appeals mainly to a special segment of players.
As for the suggestions of a "Euro" and "Pac" arena--the lack of Japanese planes set does NOT matter. Remember folks, they're talking about arenas, NOT an Allied vs Axis matchup--every side would still have all the planes. Just instead of the arena having ALL planes available, one arena would have EUROPEAN aircraft and the other would have PACIFIC ones (some exceptions apply). As noted, this idea worked fairly well in AirWarrior so there's no reason not to believe it couldn't also work well in AH. AH has the planesets and Maps already available. That is but one possibility to have two available arenas that would each maintain a unique character. There are plenty of other options available.
IMO the AH MA usually starts to crap out, both connection and gameplay-wise, after it reaches about 400-450 players. Having two MA's, each limited to 350-400 players, might be a great solution. While at first there would be problems, eventually each would develop its own character and maintain a constant population.
J_A_B
-
Rude wrote:
Two MA's is not the answer.....bigger, cooler maps is the answer with the average distance between fields at two sectors.
Rude, have you forgotten where you came from? (The assumptions is being made that you are the same Rude from Air Warrior.)
#1: Everyone squeakes about the bigger maps already.
#2: Mulitple arenas worked in Air Warrior for years, speaking of years:
#3: Aces High is what, 3 years old? Let's hope that Aces High will learn from other's mistakes AND successes.
-
WHat about Full Realism and Relaxed Realism Arenas?
I know the Vets will stay FR, and the Newer guys will learn the ropes in RR. It may buy us enough time until AH2 Comes out.
-
Originally posted by maxtor
Second arena would be good, would need to be a clone of the current MA, with the exception of perhaps maps in a different rotation. This would give people a choice of two terrain alternatives at any given time.
Set a trigger population in MA 1 before MA 2 would open to avoid not having enough play concentration during light usage hours.
hmmm the more i think about two MAs the less i think it'd work... one map would basically always be stuck on pizza...
think about it.
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
As for the suggestions of a "Euro" and "Pac" arena--the lack of Japanese planes set does NOT matter. Remember folks, they're talking about arenas, NOT an Allied vs Axis matchup--every side would still have all the planes.
J_A_B
even under this concept (and it's still what i meant about a limited japanese planeset) it'd be even more limited than the CT, simply because...
it'd be bloo planes vs bloo planes, or rather us iron v us iron, the japanese planes are so woefully overmatched in CT setups that in a MA-like option to pick, not many would actually pick a japanese ride.
thumbs down on themed dual MAs.
-
We definitely need a new arena... Skuzzy, go!
-
Gotcha....and btw, I'm not Rude from AW....I was Ice back in awdos....the real Air Warrior:)
-
not sure I understand about the "pac" and "euro" arena idea... are you guys saying you want to get rid of the current MA and repalce it with axis vs allied or are you saying that you want two more arenas that are axis vs allied, one for pac and one for euro?
I have no interest in axis vs allied only. We have pac and euro planes both in our current MA.
lazs
-
Originally posted by muckmaw
WHat about Full Realism and Relaxed Realism Arenas?
Good Lord, no. The splitting up of the community into "relaxed" and "full" realism (more like arcade and harder arcade realism) was one of the worst things to happen in Air Warrior IMO. It really fractured the community. I know that the one size fits all approach to AH has allowed me to meet countless people who flew in AW RR that I never would have met otherwise because I was a snotty FR dweeb.
Frankly, I like the idea of one main arena, though obviously it has to be able to fit everyone who wants to fly in it.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
If we had more large maps with mulitple fronts (like AKDesert) then perhaps spawn limits could be instituted. This would spread the fighting more evenly resulting in less network traffic.
By spawn limits I don't mean by type of plane but numbers only. Example; only 20 planes launched within any 10 minute period from any specific base.
-
Originally posted by Rude
Two MA's is not the answer.....bigger, cooler maps is the answer with the average distance between fields at two sectors.
We could call it "P-51s high"
-
Sounds like the perfect time fer a Korean arena!!!!!!:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by lazs2
not sure I understand about the "pac" and "euro" arena idea... are you guys saying you want to get rid of the current MA and repalce it with axis vs allied or are you saying that you want two more arenas that are axis vs allied, one for pac and one for euro?I have no interest in axis vs allied only. We have pac and euro planes both in our current MA.
lazs
noooooo.... just european and pacific "named" arenas with all planes from both theatres available to all sides in their respective theatre.
under this scenario, you'd never have any f6 v fw matchups... or ki61 vs 109f4... some planes (allied mostly) would appear in both theatres.
you'd still see same plane matchups in each theatre - especially the pac, because the japanese planeset isn't very fleshed out.
-
Originally posted by AKIron
By spawn limits I don't mean by type of plane but numbers only. Example; only 20 planes launched within any 10 minute period from any specific base.
We had this in AW--on paper it looked good but all it did was hinder the defenders that were being cornered on the map...
If you were reduced to 1 base in a particular sector you could put up 20 defenders-however the enemy in that sector may have 2 or 3 bases available to them in striking distance thus you were ganged because of arbitrary zone limitations even if you had enough pilots wanting/trying to defend.
Regarding multiple MA ‘s there could be a side-balancing problem again… I remember in AW, at times, each European Arena had 1 dominant country capable of dictating game play indefinitely.
My 2 cents.
-
The more I think about it, we might as well wait until the Mission Theater thingie in AH2.
After all, that may or may not "bleed off" enough of the player base to make this "crowded MA" discussion moot for a while.
Rather than another MA, perhaps we need another different "specialty" feature to attract players and reduce the MA load. For example, if the CT was drawing 200 or so, would we really have a problem? If the CT drew 100 and the new AH2 drew 300, would we really have a problem? What if the player base or HTC instituted a nightly "prime time Special Event" or something like that to reduce MA load. Lots of options other than another server or arena.
I'm willing to wait till AH2 to see how it plays out.
-
Originally posted by Toad
The more I think about it, we might as well wait until the Mission Theater thingie in AH2.
After all, that may or may not "bleed off" enough of the player base to make this "crowded MA" discussion moot for a while.
Rather than another MA, perhaps we need another different "specialty" feature to attract players and reduce the MA load. For example, if the CT was drawing 200 or so, would we really have a problem? If the CT drew 100 and the new AH2 drew 300, would we really have a problem? What if the player base or HTC instituted a nightly "prime time Special Event" or something like that to reduce MA load. Lots of options other than another server or arena.
I'm willing to wait till AH2 to see how it plays out.
what i find both ironic and puzzling is why all those slobbering over AH2 don't start using the CT for practice and run *missions*, not just a loose horde with zero organization and zero sense of "tactics"?
i guess it's too much effort to have to actually "think" and "plan" and the lemming masses prefer to have everything scripted out for them?
-
Shane, I'm merely waiting to see what AH2 does to MA numbers. Not longing for "misshuns", a "career" or anything like that. I don't know if I'll be interested in it or not as yet. Have to see what it actually is first.
As for the CT, my thoughts on why it draws the "numbers" that is does have been posted before.
-
my questions were just addressed to the ethersphere, toad, not you specifically.
the CT is what people make of it, just like any other arena; i just find it ironic people clamoring for ah2 when you have the concepts and tools sitting practically unused in the CT.
-
I am going to buck the trend at give the idea a 'thumbs down' Things are fine. This is what AH (WB and the old AW) is all about. My guess is that anyone blocked from entering the MA got in fairly quickly. The minute you start splitting up folks your start splitting up squads. It's the 'squad life' that really holds this thing together. The MA in WB killed squads and look at where WB is today.
Hwkeye
The Flying Zoo
-
Good Lord, no. The splitting up of the community into "relaxed" and "full" realism (more like arcade and harder arcade realism) was one of the worst things to happen in Air Warrior IMO. It really fractured the community.
Agreed.
As for the rest, bigger is better. Loggin on and see 700+ people flying together is cool. 300-400? Well, its been done. HTC has to take it to the next level.
-
For everyone commenting about the maps,
Big maps aren't the solution. The problem with our maps now, all of them, even akdesert and trinity, isnt the lack of space, but the lack of options. At any one moment there is usually only a couple of places where attacking is practical. Usually fields more than 25mph apart require a mission to capture.
The large gaps between fields channel huge numbers of players down into very small attack directions. Instead of a front line, we end up with a couple of attacks consisting of hundreds of pilots at once.
Fields need to be evenly spaced, at a maximum of 25miles, except where there is a specific reason not to. (i.e. the HQ/HQ base could be farther out than that to make it tougher to capture)
-
Originally posted by Shane
the concepts and tools sitting practically unused in the CT.
Yah, so why is that? Maybe try it for a month or two with the MA settings and see if the population goes up?
Nah, they're proving a point. We must submit. :D
-
I think it is High time HTC introduced East and West servers, even a European one if the numbers justify it. Have the game automatically log you into the lower ping server. Of course you could manually join the server of your choice. I see no real reason to keep this game on only one server in the world...
-
Hey Shane, AH doesn't have enough Japanese planes (7 total), yet AW DOS managed to do it with only 3? Heck, even AW3 only had 8 Japanese airplanes, and two of which were near-identical versions of the VAL so I don't see how AW had any huge advantage over AH in that regard. The AH planeset is in general superior to the AW plane set.
Heh heh heh
What would YOU do?
Personally I don't much care how AH divides itself up (Pac/Euro is but one alternative, there are many others), but certainly SOMETHING should be done about the problems inherent in the current MA design and the CT is a poor substitute. Same-plane matchups don't bother me. If AH were to have two different "main" arenas, then they'd need to be somehow different so each could attract a unique user base. Simply having one with small maps and one with large maps could be enough of a difference.
IMO those (not you Shane) who whine about "splitting the community" are totally off the mark. ALL of the top MMP games have split up communities. All of them--no exceptions. HTC's dogged determination to lump everyone (or almost everyone) into the single MA holds AH back far more than it helps. Those who bemoan the "split community" of AW never fail to ignore the fact that when AW had such a split community, it was a far more popular game than AH has ever been until gross corporate mismanagement and development team alienation killed it.
With the announcement of AH2 with its "mission theatre", it appears that HTC has recognized that AH needs greater variety and they'll provide it. I just wish they'd do something else in the meantime.
J_A_B
-
CT= buncha 25k dots jumpin on bunch 20k dots..yawn.
-
Those who bemoan the "split community" of AW never fail to ignore the fact that when AW had such a split community, it was a far more popular game than AH has ever been until gross corporate mismanagement and development team alienation killed it.
hmm...not to hijack this thread but there is a strong argument to be made that even as AW was cresting to its high water mark, the game had already started to rot internally. Look at the turnover at some key spots in that Kesmai team after AW4W came to AOL...once big money or rather the hint of bigger money got involved a lot of BS corporate decisions were made.
Bottom line after AOL, AW was never totally sure again if it wanted to be the best sim or just a popular mmog. Development team alienation? I'd agree with that...they're dream game and what the masses wanted were on rapidly divergent paths. Trying to be all things to everyone paralyzes development...so why deliberately create two communities looking for different things?
-
very relevant questions Hornet, especially considering the path HTC is taking.
It'll be interesting to see how it all sorts out.
J_A_B
-
Originally posted by J_A_B
What would YOU do?
J_A_B
if it were up to me, i'd simply create two identical full-planeset arenas with 400 max for starters, increasing to 500-600 if capacity required it. i'd also add a 72 hr max before any map auto resets to the next to avoid stagnation. if it's reset before 72 hrs, all the more perkies to yas.
if both started to fill out, add a 3rd, 400 max increasing to 500-600.
why 400? to make sure that both will always be fairly "crowded" for their size. splitting into theatres will only alienate the extra "euro-weenies" who got locked out of "their" arena and chose to log instead of "suffering" in a pac arena. face it, there's always, even in AW, been more an ETO crowd than Pac. even in FR when they rotated theatres, some people would simply not log in if their theatre wasn't in play.
this is all hypothetical anyway, but it'll be interesting to see how the playerbase grows bewteen now and ah2 release... at that point perhaps drop back down to 1 or 2, if needed, "MAs".
i'd leave the ct, sea, ta and da as they are.
imho, this recent influx is nice and all, and as time goes by ah will *continue* to grow, slowly but surely; the crux HTC is facing now and over the next few weeks is providing new and returning, as well as existing, players a positive experience in terms of lag in order to sustain growth and retain customers. lag is one of the biggest killers and barriers to MMPOGs.
just my .02, ymmv.