Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: midnight Target on February 24, 2003, 09:35:47 AM
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A new AIDS vaccine has been tested and failed miserably.. except for one thing.
It worked pretty well on Africans and Asians.
Go figure?
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Errr huh? Dont get it... unless those indiv tend to have a different strain of the virus than others?
Or is this a subtle troll that I have fallen for.
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Works on blacks and orientals... but not caucasions? Weird. :confused:
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1 in 9 South Africans is HIV+.
A UN report recently put AIDS at 'Genocidal' levels in parts of Africa.
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I could see this happining. We must all realize that there are subtle medical difftences between the races. I only need to point out medical conditions such as Tay-Sacs (primarily affects Jews) or the fact that black men have three times the Hypertension rate than white men to remind everyone of this.
Its not racist, its just real.
But it a start.
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The fact that a vaccine has different succes rates between different ethnological populations is not as weird as one would think.
All diseases (also infections and carcinoma) are under genetical influences. Some populations have natural immunity to certain diseases whereas other population do not react on certain treatements.
Beside the fact that the HI virus (as all other virus) comes in different mutations the developement of the disease depends greatly on the interaction between the host and the virus. A vaccination depends on how a individual reacts on it (mostly particles of the virus, or attenuated whole viruses) - I do not know how that particular vaccination works but it might depend on some factors that are better represented in named races.
Another factor might be the high infection rate in said areas. As we single out resistent bacteria with wrong antibiotic treatement nature maybe has already "produced" a human population that has built better defense mechanisms against HIV. For example a certain form of anaemia is spread widely over the african continent because it makes the carrier of that genetical disease resistent to Malaria.
I do not completely understand what Midnight is trying to point out... maybe the political effect of that study?
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makes you wonder though if JJ would be screaming if it worked the other way around ....
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Not trying to point out anything. Just a fun way to get you all to read the post.
I wonder though. Africa is probably the most lucrative point of sale for an AIDS vaccine. Is it possible that the results have been skewed to make this more marketable in Africa?
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I would imagine that if a new vaccine works better on asians and africans than it does on caucasians, it is because it is enhancing the immune systems of genotypes more resistant to AIDS.
But seriously, this vaccine has been tested in humans?
Because the only way I know of testing a vaccine in humans is to vaccinate them and then attempt to infect them.
Volunteers?
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Originally posted by bounder
Because the only way I know of testing a vaccine in humans is to vaccinate them and then attempt to infect them.
Um, you don't need to infect them. You only need to find a large, sexually active sample group, vaccinate them, and then check for infection at the end of the trial period.
We know infection rates among the general population and among groups at risk, so if the rate of infection among the sample is significantly higher or lower than that of the general population, it'll say something about the effectiveness of the vaccine.
EDIT: Also keep in mind the control group. If you randomly distribute your human subjects into a vaccine group and a placebo group, you can test difference in infection rates between the two groups. As selection to each group would occur randomly, we expect that, should the vaccine be ineffective, rates of infection between the two groups would be nearly the same.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Not trying to point out anything. Just a fun way to get you all to read the post.
I wonder though. Africa is probably the most lucrative point of sale for an AIDS vaccine. Is is possible that the results have been skewed to make this more marketable in Africa?
You're kidding right? Chances are the US will give most of it away to Africa. Or maybe you're suggesting the pharmaceutical companies will sell it to the US governement which will then give it away? Even though that is a likely scenario the governement will probably demand and get just above development cost pricing.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
and failed miserably..............
It worked pretty well
huh??
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Evolution, I get to use the E word again :)
Turns out that HIV infects the body much the same way that the bubonic plague does. Sooo, those among us who have ancestors that survived the plague have an immunological resistance to HIV .
Saw it on nova .
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Originally posted by Suave
Evolution, I get to use the E word again :)
Turns out that HIV infects the body much the same way that the bubonic plague does. Sooo, those among us who have ancestors that survived the plague have an immunological resistance to HIV .
Saw it on nova .
and our chances increase if we are not turd burglers or have sex with needle using drug addicts ... or monkeys
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That is impossible. The race is an artificial concept - there is no genetic difference between the so called "races". There is much more variation withing the "race" than between the "race" averages, etc., etc.
Only a racist would think otherwise, right? :rolleyes:
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
That is impossible. The race is an artificial concept - there is no genetic difference between the so called "races". There is much more variation withing the "race" than between the "race" averages, etc., etc.
Only a racist would think otherwise, right? :rolleyes:
miko
I was just gonna post the same idea but you beat me. :)
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I thought this thread was going to be about "why is aspirin white?". Oh well.
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Originally posted by Eagler
turd burglers
ROFL!!!!! Classic. :D
As for the US "giving away" this vaccine to African states - why would we not want to use it on the infected blacks and orientals in our country? Hell, if it works for some, thats better than none.
(Besides, how else is Phase XIV of Bush's MASTER PLAN going to work unless the population of Africa is wiped out? I smell an opportunity.) :D
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Originally posted by Eagler
makes you wonder though if JJ would be screaming if it worked the other way around ....
Eagler, since when do you care what Jimmie "JJ" Walker thinks? I mean, I know he's a funny guy and I loved him in "Good Times," but really, he's only an actor. Sheeesh.
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DYYYYYYYYNOOOMIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIITE!
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Wasn't there a drug used in Korea, that was found to cause severe symptoms in only African Americans and people of Mediterainian (sp) decent?
i thought I saw that on M.A.S.H once.
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It's not really anything about genes of people.
(in cases where it is, they dont really need the vaccine ;))
It is the virus types.
I suppose it is vaccine for HIV, not for AIDS - when you get to AIDS (the end result of HIV), theres not much vaccines which would help, unless it would be something which rebuilds the immune system.
In AIDS, patient eventually dies to some rather common disease due to lack of natural immunity, which most, if not all people has against the disease.
The HIV does have different subtypes and on different continents, there can be multiple common subtypes on the same continent.
I don't remember the subtype names or locations, but I do know that US,EU, ASia and Africa does have pretty much different subtypes and a vaccine should be developed specifially for each of them. :(
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At this point a vaccine isnt even a huge improvement. We have drugs today that can slow the effects of the disease to almost a stop. Infected people today are in little danger of premature death.
It would be nice, however, not to have to boil people before you sleep with them. Damn you flower children for ruining sex for the rest of us.
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Fishu: It's not really anything about genes of people.
...
It is the virus types.
And you know that because...?
Seriously, all I've heard on radio was that the vaccine works on asians and africans, not on viruses prevalent in asians and africans.
They might have made an error - which I doubt, but there is absolutely no reason why it may not be true.
Vaccine makes organism produce certain antibodies that block certain interactions of the virus and the cells so teh virus cannot enter teh cell or subvert it's replicating machinery. The existing intra/extra-cellular activity and composition is used for the vaccine to work.
Since it differs depending on the genes, it is possible that combination of proteins/receptors in asians and africans can be affected by the vaccine while whites lack such combination. Plain and simple.
Saurdaukar: We have drugs today that can slow the effects of the disease to almost a stop. Infected people today are in little danger of premature death.
So they can continue spreading the virus around longer. That was a good reason not to "help" Africa with those drugs - at least untill this vaccine was discovered.
miko
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Originally posted by Vipermann
Wasn't there a drug used in Korea, that was found to cause severe symptoms in only African Americans and people of Mediterainian (sp) decent?
i thought I saw that on M.A.S.H once.
If this was true then it would have to do with sickle cell anema because this is more common in african and mediterranian populations as it was an evolutionary advantage in malaria risk areas.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
It would be nice, however, not to have to boil people before you sleep with them.
I prefer alcohol to disinfect them, at least thats what I tell them.
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Do a search on gene delta 32 .
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Um, you don't need to infect them. You only need to find a large, sexually active sample group, vaccinate them, and then check for infection at the end of the trial period.
Do a little reading on the study. You'll agree with me that the sample wasn't diverse enough to draw the conclusion that it helps blacks better than whites. This vaccine is a failure so far.
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"Africa" + "buy" in the same sentence: Not likely.
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Kirin wrote:
God, you're SO sexy when you do that Kirin!
:D
Saurdakar wrote:
"We have drugs today that can slow the effects of the disease to almost a stop. Infected people today are in little danger of premature death. "
Well, this is what we THOUGHT. Unfortunately the ever resourceful virus has adapted to our efforts, and we now see T-cell degradation again. It's now again picking up its pace.
A well educated westerner who gets HIV has been either careless or caught up in the passion of the moment, or have been unlucky enough toi have a bad blood transfusion or ripped condom. It's a disease that is rather easy to prevent, but it is still sad that so many are afflicted with it.
Africa is culturally very far from the West. There's still widespread belief that having sex with a birgin can cure a man from the disease. Condoms are almost unheard of.
It'll be some time before we have a real HIV vaccine. Until then prevention is more likely to have positive results than treatment.
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Isn't there is an old guy in a pointy hat and a white robe that tells many africans that birthcontrol/condems is against the will of God as well?
Aint it sweet?
:(
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God, you're SO sexy when you do that Kirin!
Damn, I miss ya!!!
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Any disease will always be ahead of medical developement. Look at our antibiotics: their reign lasted maybe 50 years and now we already face bacteria that are resistent to every known antibiotic.
... damn - not enough time to write more... be back later
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Heehee sour... yeah... we screwed our brains out and now you kids gotta wear full body condoms. Allmost as fun as spending my kids inheratence.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Heehee sour... yeah... we screwed our brains out and now you kids gotta wear full body condoms. Allmost as fun as spending my kids inheratence.
lazs
Ahhhh..
The 70's were the best! Post sexual revolution and pre AIDS.
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Originally posted by Fishu
It's not really anything about genes of people.
(in cases where it is, they dont really need the vaccine ;))
It is the virus types.
I don’t think so. First, the apparent decreased infection rates in Asians and blacks correlated with higher antibody levels in these two groups. This would suggest these individuals had a better immune response to the vaccine. Second, most of the subjects were in the US and there is no reason to think that race would influence the viral strain within a geographic region.
If there were a racial difference in response to vaccine, it would be the first time this has ever happened (I think). So I suspect the difference is not real, but a result of post hoc evaluation of numerous factors in an attempt to find some subgroup that seemed to benefit from the vaccine. But time will tell.
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What was slightly overlooked in the study was that the different ethnic groups sited were all part of the larger sample population, i.e. - they weren't studied as a separate group. The people performing the study noticed the slightly higher correlation within those specific ethnic groups.
But, taken by themselves each ethnic group was not a sufficiently large sample to draw statistically accurate results. They will need to design and perform the same tests, specifcally to study the effect of ethnicity on the trials.
The company marketing the drug most likely wanted something positive to say in order to continue to receive funding or investors or whatever so that they may continue to function.
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Originally posted by WineMan
But, taken by themselves each ethnic group was not a sufficiently large sample to draw statistically accurate results.
What was the makeup of the studied population, and did the study follow the diversity of the population as prescibed by Affirmative Action?
:D
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OUch!!!!!
I bought 1000 shares of VaxGen (the company that makes the aidsvax) back in December, had a MD tell me he saw the early results of the study and was buying as much of the stock as he could. He never told me to buy but I figured I can get rich just like everone else right. Bought the stock at $12.00/share, sold it at $6.56/share. Oh well, live and learn.
By the way whoever said that Aids works like the plague..... Ummm Aids is a virus, the plague is a bacterial infection, completlety different. The plague poses as much of a threat today as the flu.
The people in the study that were black and asian represented less than 5% of the total number studied. A number too small to draw any conclusion from. The vaccine is dead in the water, but there are currently over 20 other aids vaccines in stage 3 clinical trials (being tested on humans), results will be coming in over the next few years. Here you go guys, find out which one is going to be the first on the market that works, buy stock, retire.....
http://www.vaxgen.com/products/AIDSV_FAQ.html
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now if they can find a way to put a dosage in a bucket of fried chicken it will cure all the black folks in the south LOL.
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Oh did you hear about the new AIDS cure?
Its called the keep it out ur arm,ass cure.
Remember if yer felling spunky u better cover that monkey.