Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BGBMAW on February 26, 2003, 02:56:56 PM

Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: BGBMAW on February 26, 2003, 02:56:56 PM
Ok..I know this thread was posted


BUT..I didnt experince its full use till joining the Ladder..

Ok..So peopl turn there engines off.. to be able to turn harder/roll faster the opposite way of the p-factor...


Can HTC make it so your engine doesnt start so quick whil in flight??


Dam ..I hate to have to now start toggling and engine on & off if im against a very good pilot who is doing the on/off thingy..


Dam there is an advantage when you turn your engine off that is for sure....

You want to roll to the rigth faster in your mustang...turn ur engine off for a sec or 2..


BiGB
xxoxo
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Dennis on February 26, 2003, 04:05:01 PM
hear, hear!

FWIW, IL2, in one of its patches, modeled a feature where if you shut your engine off in mid-flight, it can be difficult to restart --- sometimes damage prevents it from restarting at all.

I'd be interested in reading about cutting the engine as a historic dogfighting tactic.  Any good sources?

Splash1
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: buzkill on February 26, 2003, 05:14:07 PM
even euopean air war (old game)has seperate controls for each engine. I do like the way ppl squeak when you out turn thier zeke with a p38;)
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Kweassa on February 26, 2003, 06:59:25 PM
I'm skeptical about one-touch engine restarts, too.

 But I believe in a previous discussion, people have confirmed turning off the engine has no effect/advantage in maneuvering whatsoever.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: -ammo- on February 26, 2003, 09:54:54 PM
There were some folks that said they believed there was no gained advantage from toggling your engine on and off in a stall fight,  but from my experience that just isn't true.  It does give an edge to those that use it with good timing.  

Be warned, this topic created quite the stir.. and I can see why. If you see some of the hot sticks use this in duels it is awesome to watch. They don't want to lose that edge.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Octavius on February 26, 2003, 11:14:54 PM
I've never heard of killing your engine for an advantage.


How and why does this work?
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Torc on February 26, 2003, 11:17:59 PM
*Slaps Oct with a huge trout* Is reducing throttle just as dweeby as toggling engine?
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Shane on February 27, 2003, 02:14:12 AM
or even as dweeby as, say, running an engine at full throttle non-stop?


:D
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: MrLars on February 27, 2003, 04:33:13 AM
HT fixed the insta start you could get by toggeling the control on-off-on...I never used it inflight but on takeoff it would bypass the engine start routine and give full power instantly.

If there ever was any advantage it is lessened considerably now.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Octavius on February 27, 2003, 10:49:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Torc
*Slaps Oct with a huge trout* Is reducing throttle just as dweeby as toggling engine?


ow !!

lol I'm serious.  How does killing your engine give you a tighter turn?

Killing engine to bleed E faster only to instantly turn it back on is bunk IMO... (thats not what I was asking Torc :D)
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: HFMudd on February 27, 2003, 11:16:16 AM
Well, I can see that throttling down (or engine off) will allow you reduce the torque when turning counter to the prop rotation thus giving you a tighter turn.  But... I also question if the speed given up is worth it.  Would it not be better trade that speed for a bit of altitude and pull the tighter turn by rolling back down behind?
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: buzkill on February 27, 2003, 04:57:32 PM
Ok..i never kill an engine in p38, i re-mapped the way you select which engine you want to control with throttle.if i want a tighter right turn,hit the button for the right engine,drop throtte,and let the torque from the left engine pull it around.kind of a controlled flat spin(rudder helps);)
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: hblair on March 02, 2003, 11:09:44 PM
e

e


e




e





e



e!


;)
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Toad on March 03, 2003, 02:35:49 AM
I sort of doubt very many people switched off their engines in combat, put that's just a personal educated guess after talking to lots of them.

However, I have also talked to lots of pilots that have run a fuel tank dry or accidentally bumped a mag switch or something and momentarily killed the engine.

Where does this idea come from that the engine will/should break or harm it self irreparably if you momentarily shut it down and restart it?

BTW, I'm don't use engine shutdown here. I've had it done by the other guy in a fight though and it does make the scissors pretty awesome if they know what they're doing.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: MrLars on March 03, 2003, 04:58:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad

Where does this idea come from that the engine will/should break or harm it self irreparably if you momentarily shut it down and restart it?



I don't know much about A/C engines but if you run up a car engine to high RPM and then shut off the ignition and turn it back on before the engine stops you'll get a hell of an explosion in the exhaust manifold. I can imagine that in an engine that sucks a lot more fuel than a car engine the explosion in the exhaust manifold could be damaging.
 
I bet there was some testing of the effects, it would be interesting to see the data collected.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Toad on March 03, 2003, 07:43:24 AM
I've had a 450 Pratt backfire a once or twice when it was momentarily shut down and restarted. That's about it.

Didn't hurt the engine as far as anyone could tell.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Shane on March 03, 2003, 08:41:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hblair
e

e


e




e





e



e!


;)


you forgot to add...


 
.move ###

:D
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: hblair on March 03, 2003, 08:53:29 AM
No shane, they usually re-up to be shot down again. And they don't salute. ;)

Actually I rarely turn my engine off.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Shane on March 03, 2003, 08:56:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hblair
Actually I rarely turn my engine off.


dying from it cured that habit, eh?

:D
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: hblair on March 03, 2003, 10:43:11 AM
Don't remember dying from it, but if it makes you feel better we'll say I did. A lot! I died a lot! Crazy me. And I learned my lesson by golly! :D
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: Regurge on March 04, 2003, 01:24:56 AM
Last time around Midnight eventually recanted, agreeing that engine toggleing was no more advantageous than chopping throttle to idle (the advantage being to slow down quicker).

Its pretty easy to test, just set autospeed and compare decent rate with engine off and at idle. Same decent rate means same drag.

I doubt theres much if any difference in roll rate either.

I think it should be left like it is. Toggling allows people without a hotas setup to manipulate throttle just as quickly.
Title: Engine turning off-On toggle
Post by: BGBMAW on March 04, 2003, 12:27:14 PM
im not really talking about Slowing down...

Its the roll rate when in scissors that i see the biggest advantage..

Defntly a difference..but you have to be quik and precise...


BiGB
xoxo