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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on February 27, 2003, 10:46:07 AM

Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: JBA on February 27, 2003, 10:46:07 AM
Children of Maine Guard unit taunted by teachers
By Robert Stacy McCain
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


     Members of the Maine National Guard, called up to prepare for an attack on Iraq, have asserted that their children are being harassed at school by teachers who oppose the war.
 

     Guard members say their children are "coming home upset, depressed, crying," said Maj. Peter Rogers, a spokesman for the Maine National Guard. "This was based on some incidents that were happening in school, both in the classroom and on the playground."
     In an e-mail sent to the parents of one child who had complained of harassment at school, National Guard officials said they had "over 30 complaints that name schools and individual principals, teachers and guidance counselors."
     It was still not clear yesterday whether the state will discipline any of the named teachers or schools over the incidents.
     "In Maine, local superintendents make local policy for local schools," said Tammy Morrill, assistant to J. Duke Albanese, state commissioner of education.
     A "fact-gathering" process about the incidents is under way, Maj. Rogers said. The incidents involved students in elementary and middle schools, some as young as 7 years old, he said.
     "What we're hearing is that some of the educators are talking about the possible war in Iraq being unethical and that those who would fight it are unethical," Maj. Rogers said.
     The state commissioner of education has urged school officials to be more "sensitive" to military children.
     "Recently it has been brought to our attention that some school personnel ... may have been less than sensitive to children of military families regarding our continued strained relations with Iraq," Mr. Albanese wrote in a letter sent Tuesday to all superintendents and principals in Maine.
     "In some cases, parents — who are about to be deployed — have observed added stress and anxiety among their children who perceive a staff member or their peers as being insensitive to their beliefs and the potential danger to loved ones," Mr. Albanese wrote.
     The commissioner said that, while supporting "the right to discuss controversial issues," he wanted "to remind school personnel ... that the families of military personnel need our sensitivity."
     Complaints about harassment in schools first surfaced, Maj. Rogers said, after two of Maine's Army National Guard units were mobilized recently for deployment to the Middle East.
     "About a week ago, we started doing our family-assistance-center briefings," Maj. Rogers said, explaining that the centers provide support for the families of Guard troops on active duty. "In these briefings, a number of families came forward and talked about their children coming home upset, depressed, crying."
     Maj. Rogers said the state commissioner's office "has been very supportive" of the military families in responding to the complaints. "We're hoping [Mr. Albanese's letter to school officials] will end the issue," Maj. Rogers said. "We're not looking at pointing fingers or anything."
     Mr. Albanese told the Bangor Daily News that only one complaint involved classroom remarks, after the child of a Guard member became upset during a discussion of Iraq when a teaching assistant "took up the anti-war" argument.
     Other incidents, according to Mr. Albanese, involved a child who had requested to leave school early for a military-related activity and a student who was teased on a school bus because he has a parent in the military.
     Teachers across the country have tried to find proper ways to teach children about the war on terrorism. Last year, the National Education Association was criticized for posting a link to an online lesson plan for the September 11 anniversary recommending that teachers discuss "historical instances of American intolerance" so that America could avoid "repeating terrible mistakes."
     The incidents involving the children of National Guard members in Maine were "a surprise to us," Maj. Rogers said. "We are certainly hoping that none of it was done maliciously. ... We certainly value the freedom of speech and fight for it, but we hope that people would be sensitive to the kids."
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Dowding on February 27, 2003, 10:49:30 AM
Yeah, that's right - the entire population of an entire state of the US should feel guilty for the actions of a very small number.

Good thinking, Batman.

BTW, I think 'taunting' is a load of sweaty cobblers in this context. One teacher expressed her 'anti-war feelings' in a discussion about Iraq. Well, surely she's entitled to hold them and express them if asked. The actual 'taunting' was done by kids on the school bus.

"Shock Horror! Kid teased by other kids for being different!"
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Kanth on February 27, 2003, 10:51:24 AM
I think the whole Batman thing is supposed to be a secret Dowding, don't tell anyone.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 27, 2003, 10:54:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Yeah, that's right - the entire population of an entire state of the US should feel guilty for the actions of a very small number.

Good thinking, Batman.



Cripes, who pissed in your cornflakes?
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Curval on February 27, 2003, 11:01:14 AM
Dowding...people in Maine should be ashamed of their teachers is the way I read it....not that the whole state should be ashamed for being from Maine where the incident took place.  Subtle, but very big, difference.

I'm sure Jane Fonda is really proud of them though..so don't worry.:rolleyes:
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Frogm4n on February 27, 2003, 11:01:16 AM
article dosnt even say what the kids said, but it really dosnt matter. noone cared when we made fun of the fatties(and in college i still do). kids are going to pick on each other so squealing what.....wait a second! this sounds a job for the ACLU!!!!
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: -ammo- on February 27, 2003, 11:01:30 AM
I don't think so dowding. The teacher is in too influential of a position to express his/her views to young students. That is morally wrong. Compound that it a position contrary to what the government and what mainstream USA is taking.  Those teachers are out of line. They should go home and tell their spouses, friends, relatives. Go to the lounge and express their opinions to other teachers.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: AKIron on February 27, 2003, 11:01:37 AM
I don't live in Maine but I'm still ashamed.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Maverick on February 27, 2003, 11:51:25 AM
I don't live in Maine and I'm more than a bit pissed off about this. A teacher is supposed to be apolitical in the classroom.

Dowding, I suppose the entire USA should be upset because you disagree with our nation's poilicies. I don't think that is likely to happen. :rolleyes:
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: JBA on February 27, 2003, 12:06:15 PM
Dowding....
Duck...went  right over your head...
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Mini D on February 27, 2003, 12:14:01 PM
Teaching support apolitical?  LOL!

I aplaud people in Maine for bringing it up as an issue.  The people who should be ashamed are in all of the other areas where this is being done and no response is occuring.

MiniD
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: LePaul on February 27, 2003, 12:14:07 PM
Im from Maine, have been...Maine Air National Guard from 1987-1994, etc...trust me, we'll deal with em.  We seem to get all the tree-hugger's from the cities who come up here...

Hadn't heard of this locally but I work 9-5 then 6-10pm every week night.  

Thanks for the link....but don't stereotype us all.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on February 27, 2003, 12:21:31 PM
Teachers aren't allowed to express their views on controversial issues to students, atleast not in the 2 states and the nation's capitol, where I attended school(s).

As a matter of fact, teachers are there to teach the material and that's that...

Teachers can't express their views on God, or religion, or anything questionable to students... badgering students about what their parents do should be grounds for immediate dismissal without compensation and never be hired anywhere else.

If they want to talk to the parents, that's a whole other issue... but the students, you just dun fukd yourself.
-SW
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: midnight Target on February 27, 2003, 12:22:20 PM
load of crap!

Quote
Mr. Albanese told the Bangor Daily News that only one complaint involved classroom remarks, after the child of a Guard member became upset during a discussion of Iraq when a teaching assistant "took up the anti-war" argument.


Was the assistant instructed to do so? Could be. Other than this little line in the entire article NOTHING relates to the title. Yellow journalism at its finest!
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: LePaul on February 27, 2003, 12:23:46 PM
Ok, did some digging...found this...

Bangor Daily News
Military sensitivity sought in schools
Reminder to aid kids with deployed parents



Commissioner of Education J. Duke Albanese said Monday he plans to send e-mails to schools reminding them to be "sensitive" to children whose parents may be involved in the war on Iraq.Albanese said Maj. Gen. Joseph Tinkham, state adjutant general, told him Monday that the Army National Guard had received complaints from parents across the state who felt "people weren't as sensitive as they should be."


When he first heard about the complaints last week, he had been under the impression that parents were upset about teachers making anti-war statements in the classroom, Albanese said.

In fact, according to "anecdotal stories" told to him by Tinkham, the commissioner said only one complaint had to do with a classroom activity in which a child became upset after a teaching assistant "took up the anti-war" side.

Other complaints were from parents on two occasions who thought local school personnel "should have been more sensitive" when a student requested to leave early for a military-related activity and when a student was teased on a school bus because a parent was in the military.

The anecdotes were reported at family assistance centers, where relatives of deployed soldiers can get information and support.

Albanese said late Monday afternoon he would send out an advisory "reiterating the need to be sensitive to the times and to the children who might have a parent who's going to be potentially dispatched to war."

Maine teachers and schools have an "excellent track record" when it comes to supporting families, Albanese said.

"Often teachers act as surrogates ... in support of a child who's concerned about what's happening at home," he said.

Army National Guard spokesman Maj. Peter Rogers said late Monday he was pleased with the department's move.

"That's great news," he said. "I think a lot of it was probably that people weren't thinking and hopefully this will fix the problem," he said. "A lot of teachers may not have known children had parents who were deployed."

As of Friday, his department had received "no phone calls, e-mails or faxes," Albanese said. "Usually parents would come to us and let us know their concerns."

On Monday four e-mails arrived from people who had seen a television report that Maine Army National Guard officials were getting complaints from parents.

"That's not what we consider a huge response to the problem," Albanese said. "That's really minimal."

The e-mails "were about [people] wanting and encouraging us and me in particular to do something about this."

Rogers is hopeful things will be worked out.

"All we're looking for is for educators to be sensitive to the fact that we have family members in the classrooms and these kids have already suffered the trauma of having someone from their family deployed," he said.

"Everyone has the right to free speech, but if it's making kids uneasy and their separation harder, it's not something we're interested in at all."
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Mini D on February 27, 2003, 12:54:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Teachers aren't allowed to express their views on controversial issues to students, atleast not in the 2 states and the nation's capitol, where I attended school(s).

As a matter of fact, teachers are there to teach the material and that's that...

Teachers can't express their views on God, or religion, or anything questionable to students... badgering students about what their parents do should be grounds for immediate dismissal without compensation and never be hired anywhere else.

If they want to talk to the parents, that's a whole other issue... but the students, you just dun fukd yourself.
-SW
I know for a fact that there are teachers in Oregon more than happy to share political views with the class on a regular basis.

MiniD
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: AWMac on February 27, 2003, 01:09:04 PM
Quote
I know for a fact that there are teachers in Oregon more than happy to share political views with the class on a regular basis.


Bet Jane Fonda would have made an EXCELLENT teacher in Oregon.   :D

Reading,
Writing,
Arithemetic,
and
My Righteous Political Opinion :eek:

Testible Material :rolleyes:
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Sixpence on February 27, 2003, 01:09:19 PM
JAB trollin again?
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: capt. apathy on February 27, 2003, 01:12:57 PM
this is the only part I had a problem with-

_________________________
and that those who would fight it are unethical
_________________________

I see nothing wrong with teachers expressing their opinions (as long as the are expressed as opinions and not fact.  as in "I think....)

It's ok if the say they think this war is unethical, or even war in general is unethical, but it's not like we ask servicemen if they'd like to participate in this particular war.  we trust them to protect us. and they trust us to (and our system of gov't ) to make sure they aren't sent places they don't belong.

if a servicemen gets sent to fight in a war that is unethical or even just inappropriate, I'd say it's more the fault of those who didn't vote or make their feelings known politically than the fault of the guy who is just doing his job.


btw- as far as teachers not teaching anything but the proscribed curriculum. that’s sure not the way It happens around here.  2 years ago they let our highschool kids out of school early (without parental permission and gave them an excused absence) to take the bus down town to participate in a political protest.  if they believe in the issue the kid gets an excused absence if not, not.  hell they wouldn't even give my kids an excused absence when I kept them home the first half the day on 9/11 to talk about what they'd seen on TV
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Kanth on February 27, 2003, 01:16:57 PM
vouchers.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Mini D on February 27, 2003, 01:37:58 PM
I disagree with the idea of it being ok for teachers to express political views as long as they are just their oppinions.

If you present something to the class as a teacher, you are teaching them.  If you express one oppinion as being right and the other as being wrong.. then you are teaching them.

Good, bad... whatever.  Opinions and the classroom do not mix well.  That's why there is supposed to just be curriculum.

MiniD
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 27, 2003, 03:21:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
I disagree with the idea of it being ok for teachers to express political views as long as they are just their oppinions.

If you present something to the class as a teacher, you are teaching them.  If you express one oppinion as being right and the other as being wrong.. then you are teaching them.

Good, bad... whatever.  Opinions and the classroom do not mix well.  That's why there is supposed to just be curriculum.

MiniD


Agreed.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Frogm4n on February 27, 2003, 04:02:00 PM
there is nothing wrong with teachers having an opinion as long as they dont teach it as fact. I had plenty of teachers in florida let their religous views and political views slip into their teaching assignments(all right wing btw). I didnt whine about it. Of course this was high school and your not going to be influenced by some wacko nut who teach's that the trickle down theory is superior.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Hangtime on February 27, 2003, 04:33:18 PM
I lived in Main for quite a few years. Found the folks to be clannish, and even if you lived there for 40 years you'd still be refered to as 'that gent from down state'.

On the other hand, they were quick with a smile, willing to help, were not stand-offish or prudish, seemed mighty damn partotic and were for the most part completely annoyed at the Canucks.

I liked the place. I liked the people. They just can't give directions fer toejam. "yuh cain't get theyuh frum heyah..yuh gots ta go uver theyah furst."

Mainers! Go MARINERS!

And that news story is just more media hype and noise. Much adoo about nuthin.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: midnight Target on February 27, 2003, 04:34:50 PM
Rush and Dr. Laura both mentioned this on their radio shows today. I can't believe the gullibility level of some reactionary idiots.

NOTHING HAPPENED! Read the original and tell me what exactly happened?

It is a non-story for krise sakes. Go get indignant about something real would ya!
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: VAQ on February 27, 2003, 06:41:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n
noone cared when we made fun of the fatties(and in college i still do). kids are going to pick on each other so squealing what.....


"noone (sic) cared"

This one wonders how the children taunted in this way felt about it.  This one wonders how the collage-age young adults you continue to taunt feel about it.  

Weight discrimination may be the last socially accepted form of prejudice.

Unfortunately, casual prejudicial comments made by children are often allowed to “slip by.”  When children are not taught that it is wrong to foster prejudice, they may carry prejudicial attitudes into their adult lives.  Tacit acceptance of casual prejudicial remarks by children fosters discrimination and bigotry in adults.
   
Ignorance is the driving force of prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry.  

Education is the cure for ignorance.

Thank goodness you are attending college.  Hope it is a good one.  You do not want to be an idiota the rest of your life.

Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: koala on February 27, 2003, 07:28:59 PM
Quote
I see nothing wrong with teachers expressing their opinions (as long as the are expressed as opinions and not fact. as in "I think....)

:rolleyes:

So a teacher saying "I think Christianity is the one true religion and in my opinion all you kiddies that don't believe it are going to hell." is okay?

I think you're clueless.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: CptTrips on February 27, 2003, 07:45:04 PM
Exactly, what if their "opinion" was that all Jews were filth and should be rounded up and gased?  Would they be allowed to express that opinion?

They need to stick to math, english, and science.  Keep their fuking opinions to themselves.

If they can't, maybe the good citizens of Maine should put a few molotov cocktails through their dining room window to help motivate them.


Wab
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: midnight Target on February 27, 2003, 08:43:56 PM
I now understand how completely rediculous stories can lead to public outcries.

Like Kristallnacht

sad really.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Erlkonig on February 27, 2003, 08:43:56 PM
Soooo, Wabbit, when was the last time you tried arson to settle a dispute?  whoopee right-wing psychopaths.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: CptTrips on February 27, 2003, 08:59:57 PM
Quote
whoopee right-wing psychopaths


Get over it studmuffingot.

Some long hair tree hugging studmuffingot fuks with one of my kids, arson is the least of their worries.  More than likely I'd just drag them onto thier lawn in the middle of the night in front of thier family and execute them with a crowbar.

And you didn't answer my question studmuffingot.

Wab
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Airhead on February 27, 2003, 09:14:19 PM
To HELL with you liberals! If you don't agree Maine should be added to the Axis of Evil (that is France, Germany and Russia, for those of you wondering)then you are Un-American!!

(I read AKWabbit's stuff and am reminded of the tweeker rabbit in Fritz The Cat. Bizarre.)
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: CptTrips on February 27, 2003, 09:22:41 PM
Quote
Fritz The Cat


Man, you are DATING yourself. :cool:
Wab
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Airhead on February 27, 2003, 09:45:26 PM
The scene where the rabbit was all lathergic until he saw the glint of the sun on that hypodermic needle and he suddenly raced across the desert on his Harley was classic. Reminded me of vulchers rushing to a newbie. I actually paid money to see that movie at a theatre. Pathetic R Me.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: LePaul on February 27, 2003, 11:11:05 PM
Umm Airhead....Arielle and I live up here in Maine...apparently in occupied territory....plan on rescuing us?  :D

I just got home a while ago and see this made the O'Reilly Factor tonight.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Frogm4n on February 27, 2003, 11:21:45 PM
typical reactionary nutcase's going overboard
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Erlkonig on February 27, 2003, 11:40:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Get over it studmuffingot.

Some long hair tree hugging studmuffingot fuks with one of my kids, arson is the least of their worries.  More than likely I'd just drag them onto thier lawn in the middle of the night in front of thier family and execute them with a crowbar.

And you didn't answer my question studmuffingot.

Wab


Isn't there an abortion clinic you should be bombing or something?  And I believe you are way over your "studmuffingot" quotient for the day.  Please use only xenophobic, anti-French/German/Muslim deragatory terms from now on.

P.S.  :mad: :mad: :mad: I'm gonna beat your face in if I see you at the con!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
P.S.S.  Your momma! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: CptTrips on February 27, 2003, 11:44:05 PM
Typical studmuffingot Liberal apologist.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Frogm4n on February 27, 2003, 11:58:16 PM
wow your vocab is as good as mine!

"Mr. Albanese told the Bangor Daily News that only one complaint involved classroom remarks, after the child of a Guard member became upset during a discussion of Iraq when a teaching assistant "took up the anti-war" argument.

Other incidents, according to Mr. Albanese, involved a child who had requested to leave school early for a military-related activity and a student who was teased on a school bus because he has a parent in the military."


So in other words, what we've got here is one teaching assistant who may or may not have said something vaguely critical of the war effort, and a bunch of seven year olds teasing each other.

Maybe Bill O'Reilly can bring the little tykes on his show and expose them as enemies of the state.


Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: CptTrips on February 28, 2003, 12:27:44 AM
Quote
So in other words, what we've got here is one teaching assistant who may or may not have said something vaguely critical of the war effort, and a bunch of seven year olds teasing each other.


Yep, just need their names and addresses now.  

The rest will take care of itself.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Dowding on February 28, 2003, 12:28:31 AM
What a stupid thread. My original comment still stands. Non story hyped up by reactionaries to support their own particular agenda.

Yeah, it must have gone over my head JBA. I was kind of hoping you'd crow-bar Clinton into this issue somehow:

"Clinton ****** my daughter - AND he expressed feelings that run contrary to the current administration's policy towards despotic Middle Eastern states!!!! Golly-geen that Clinton!!!"

Sadly, this thread lacks that angle. It had so much potential too...
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Sandman on February 28, 2003, 12:30:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
I disagree with the idea of it being ok for teachers to express political views as long as they are just their oppinions.

If you present something to the class as a teacher, you are teaching them.  If you express one oppinion as being right and the other as being wrong.. then you are teaching them.

Good, bad... whatever.  Opinions and the classroom do not mix well.  That's why there is supposed to just be curriculum.

MiniD


Go check out the collection of history text books at the local grammar school.

They're chalk full of opinion.

The assumption that teachers don't share opinions at school is rather ridiculous. In fact, it's the key reason why I'm pulling my son out of private school next year and putting him in public school. The change in perspective is what I want. I don't even care if I agree or not. I just want my son to see an issue from more than one side.
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Frogm4n on February 28, 2003, 01:09:50 AM
wow wabbit you would have made a great SS officer
Title: Those of you in MAINE should be ashamed
Post by: Sixpence on February 28, 2003, 08:33:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Typical studmuffingot Liberal apologist.


Typical Texan?