Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on February 27, 2003, 12:00:16 PM
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Now we've got an Ambassador to Greece resigning to prostest Bush's policy on Iraq.
With all this dissension, we look like a divided nation when we should be standing as one on the brink of war.
Am I the only one who wants to say, "F*CK IRAQ, F*CK the rest of the world, F*CK the treehuggers" and pack up the troops and go home?
I mean, the hell with them all. Let's pack it in and when this Motherf*cking genocidal maniac goes on a rampage and invades Saudi, or Turkey, and starts gassing, and killing his own people, let the fu*king French deal with it.
And if one bomb goes off in an American city, let it be known, as soon as we find out who sponsored the terrorists, they're getting hit and hit hard. Not dicking around. Take the largest city and launch 50 crusie missles into it.
Oh, the terrorists used, NBC weapons? F*CK YOU, nuke the biggest city of the supporting country.
This is simply not my normal behavior, but I'm just so sick of this. All this delaying has personally cost me money. Everyday, the market is coming apart because of the uncertainty of the Iraqi situation. This is minor compared to all the lives that could be lost, but this situation is affecting everyone.
In closing, France is a bunch of miserable ingrates.
Go to hell!
Look, I know none of this make sense. Unfortunately, I am so enraged, this is all I can come up with.
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Someone please tell me I'm not insane..
Uhhh...
You're not insane.
(you did say please)
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Losing money as a case for war sounds insane to me.
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It is all about the money! Always has been.
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muckmaw, Amen.
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*Standing Ovation*
On target Muckmaw!
:D
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muckmaw have you ever considered running for President?
:D
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Go, mucmaw, go. I agree 100%.:mad:
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your insane with the rest of your errr country
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I was on the fence about the whole Iraq war thing, until it turned out that we had very little international support which means that we would have to do and pay for everything.
Is Sadam evil and needs to removed from power? Yes.
Should the US take on most of the effort and the estimated US$80,000,000,000 to get the job done? Hell no.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Motherf*cking genocidal maniac goes on a rampage and invades Saudi, or Turkey, and starts gassing, and killing his own people
Panama,Grenada....Agent Orange.
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I'd run for President, but there are a few things that would get in the way.
The US would never elect an Italian Catholic, who speaks his mind openly and honestly.
Don't get me wrong, I have great compassion for the people of the middle east, Africa, and other impoverished regions.
However, I'm tired of being a citizen of the world's policeman.
Look what happened in Somalia. We went there to help, and feed a starving nation, and how many Americans died for it?
As for the money aspect, I think you misunderstood me. My point was, even am average person like me, is being adversly affected by this inaction. Either go to war or let's go home.
And what is the problem with the Canadians? Is it the French comment or the "Level Toronto" thing in my sig?
Meanwhile, I stand by my original point. Let's bring our boys home, and let the rest of the world sort it out.
You don' t want our help? Fine. You handle it.
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Obviously Bush's reasoning isn't convincing enough for people to buy it.
It was bit different back then when Iraq invaded Kuwait, then there was a better excuse to attack it - they were the aggressors.
Now, US becoming a big time aggressor, is confusing minds.
Especially with somewhat weakling reasons to do it and Bush is not the most convincing man - hes too repeative and boring.
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sirloin, i can see how we really screwed Panama by giving them the canal,but could you explane what we did to Grenada that was so bad ?
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I hate to say it, but if Clinton (better yet, Reagan) were speaking Bush's words and had Bush's stance, Saddam would have already been dead for six months.
As much as I agree with his policy, Bush simply cant speak. Ive seen "Public Speaking 101" students do a better job than our President.
He commands no respect on the podium and cant convince anyone of the validity of his position because he comes off an an 8 year old.
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Originally posted by john9001
sirloin, i can see how we really screwed Panama by giving them the canal,but could you explane what we did to Grenada that was so bad ?
We didn't screw Panama, we screwed Colombia.
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Originally posted by AWMac
*Standing Ovation*
On target Muckmaw!
:D
Get off me!!!!!!!
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Now here's my take.
If the whole gulf war was about oil, why did we stop halfway?
If we did then, what we're planning now, we would have a puppet regime in Iraq pumping all the beautiful black stuff our way.
But we liberated Kuwait, protect Saudi, and went home. Why not finish the job and grab the oil? Maybe the original gulf war was more about stabilizing a region we depend on for our energy, rather than stealing crude.
As for President Bush, guess what....he is the president. So he's not the greatest speaker. Does that fault his leadership? FDR could'nt walk. Did that make him less potent as a President?
A leader should not be judged by the quality of sound bites he produces. If that's the case, let's elect Kasey Kasem.
Perhaps we have trouble following the man's speeches because we're so used to listening to BS, that we can't understand a person when they speak the truth.
Look, is Bush right? I don't know.
But I do know, he's the President. He gets the briefing from the NSA, CIA, etc, and knows a hell of a lot more than any of us.
Unlike many, I trust our government to act in our best interest.
If Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, or any other President was in office during this trying time, he too would have my support, be he a democrat or republican.
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we stole panama from columbia so we could create the canal. straight up and outright stole it, its pretty funny. We have no international support because we ignore the europeon requests for air pollution standards and we go around breaking and pulling out of treatys. if the bush admin would have did a little more compromiseing he might have more support in the world. instead when he delt with world politics before 9/11 he ignored his allies requests and now they ignore his.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
Meanwhile, I stand by my original point. Let's bring our boys home, and let the rest of the world sort it out.
You don' t want our help? Fine. You handle it.
The problem with your little theory is who to nuke after a terrorist attack in the US. And what possible good you think would come after such a 50 missiles-strike on for example Baghdad.
Your problem is you are thinking isolationistic in a co-dependency-economic world.
Just one example:
The average US citizen likes his car(s). He also likes to buy gas for his car as cheap as possible. There is plenty of oil out here "in the rest of the world", there are some oil in the US. But if you would try to only use US oil, your gas prizes would skyrocket. Nobody would like that...least of all mr average US citizen
(aka "mr voter"). So the US buys its oil abroad...cheap, good 'ol arabian oil.
problem #1
Everyone knows how much the US likes their cars, and thus everyone knows about the US dependency on oil. Terrorists can strike at oil fields abroad and/or pipelines or tankers taking the oil to the US. If there is a terrorist attack on some Kuweiti oil field ...who do you nuke and why?
problem #2
Suppose there is a coup in oil-supplying-nation#1 removing the US friendly government, and installing mr Islamistic fundamentalist moron as president. He cancels the oil deliveries to the US ...who do you nuke and why?
problem #3
Oil-supplying-nation#2 is run by a "semi-democratic" government. problem is Big-bad-neighbour#1 that lies right next to Oil-supplying-nation#2. Big-bad-neighbour#1 wants Oil-supplying-nation#2's oild fields. Oil-supplying-nation#2 wants the US to protect its borders..."but no nukes please...see we like our little desert, and we want to keep living in this part of the world even after an eventual war against Big-bad-neighbour#1" they say.
...how do you want to defend Oil-supplying-nation#2?
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QUOTE]Oil-supplying-nation#2 is run by a "semi-democratic" government. [/QUOTE]
heh the saudis are anything but democratic, saddam's government is more democractic then they are.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
heh the saudis are anything but democratic, saddam's government is more democractic then they are.
Who said I was talking about the Saudis? To avoid discussions like this one I was referring to some unknown nation known as "Oil-supplying-nation#2"
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Your problem is you are thinking isolationistic in a co-dependency-economic world.
Excelllent point!
You are 100% correct, but I am speaking from an overly simplistic, ego-centric, position. Of course, the nuclear situation does not make sense. However, let's talk about Pan Am 103. We traced the destruction of that aircraft back to Libya. We launched an attack and bombed a few airfields there. I don't think we did enough collateral damage, but the libyans have been quiet for sometime now.
As for the oil problem. Let's assume one of your scenarios, and oil supply is greatly reduced. Mr. and Mrs. America are paying $5.00 a gallon at the pump and they are angry. They start screaming for detroit to come up with more cars that get 100 miles to the gallon. They start screaming and protesting for the government of a country that put a man on the moon, to perfect an alternative energy source. Do you think it would get done? I do.
And who would we be hurting? The arabs? Sure. But who else? Who does not want the US to have automobiles that get great milage, or use alternative energy?
The United States oil companies, thats who.
I digress, but why do you think we don't have trollys anymore? There used to be trolly systems all over the united states. What happened to them? They were bought up by shell companies owned by Goodyear, GM, and Ford. Trollys were dismantled, somtimes haveing the tracks removed OVERNIGHT, in some cities. Why? So GM, and Ford could sell more cars, and Goodyear could sell more tires.
It's not so much the Arabs we have to worry about as it is the CEOs.
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FYI the greek are not french citizen.
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First The US has MANY allies..a Dozen Plus...So to say we are alone is Foolish and uneducated...
Who is saying no..France-Germany-China-Russia?? Please that is far from the majority...
Second---Saying we pull out and say"if you attak us we will send a BIG BOM" we are not diddlying around...To me is great..yes it cant be that easy but dam close...
What we want to do.Is tell the Gov.s' of teh world to POLICE THERE COUNTRY..If not we are going to police it for them...And they will not do well like that...
HORTLUND says...The problem with your little theory is who to nuke after a terrorist attack in the US. And what possible good you think would come after such a 50 missiles-strike on for example Baghdad.
So this says..Countries...CLEAN UP YOUR CRAP!!!..plain and simple...
BiGB
xoxo
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Muck, I owe yah a beer.
Note:
lets not invade iraq. lets bring the troops back, but let 'em stop over at Marseilles, give 'em ALL tickets to Paris for a lil 30 day R&R leave.
:D
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Could be more to this that Iraq.
Big demonstrations on the island of Cyprus today in favor of having the whole island put under Turkish rule. Turkey and Greece have been at odds over who owns the island for many years. http://www.pio.gov.cy/news/daily_update_index.html
Could Greece be pissed over the money Turkey would
receive for basing US troops have something to do with it?
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Il n'a pas dit qu'ils soient.
La grande poste n'est pas complète sans un coup aux Français
Vous comprenez.
Originally posted by straffo
FYI the greek are not french citizen.
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are there any countries that export oil that are democratic?
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Originally posted by slimm50
Go, mucmaw, go. I agree 100%.:mad:
Really? That's not what you said in this thread. (http://216.91.192.19/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80191).
FWIW, I tend to agree with Muckmaw.
Rather than this confrontational pre-emptive, beat them before they beat us country that Bush seems to want, I want the U.S. to be more of a, "You make me get out of this easy chair and I will kick your ass" kind of country.
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
are there any countries that export oil that are democratic?
Canada.
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Originally posted by Kanth
Il n'a pas dit qu'ils soient.
La grande poste n'est pas complète sans un coup aux Français
Vous comprenez.
No I don't understand.
Or is it just a "fashion victim" ? (we french are target of the day ...)
Cause if I start a thread about Greece and Insult and bash the American more than the greek will it seen as rationnal ? or Insane ?
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Rather than this confrontational pre-emptive, beat them before they beat us country that Bush seems to want, I want the U.S. to be more of a, "You make me get out of this easy chair and I will kick your ass" kind of country.
I agree!! :D :D :D
Elfie
Armageddon Pile-it
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
are there any countries that export oil that are democratic?
Norway for exemple.
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Who is saying no..France-Germany-China-Russia?? Please that is far from the majority...
Uh, China and Russia alone is like half of the population on this planet lol. :)
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Originally posted by muckmaw
...Libya. ...I don't think we did enough collateral damage, ...
It's confirmed....
You are Insane.
"10 ostaggi per ogni Tedesco ucciso.
Vogliamo che la storia si ripeta?"
10 hostages for every German Soldier killed.
We want to repeat history?
Yes Siaf, you are almost right... but they are untermensch, in someone book.
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Protesting war is nothing new. It even happened during WWII.
Les
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I want the U.S. to be more of a, "You make me get out of this easy chair and I will kick your ass" kind of country.
So you wouldn't mind seeing another 9/11 or two? How about four or five?
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Apparently, its still a split decision. If this is insanity, then so be it.
What's all this about Greece? Perhaps I misunderstood, but I did not insult Greece. I just mentioned the resignation of the Greek ambassador as another sign of how complicated this situation is.
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Big demonstrations on the island of Cyprus today in favor of having the whole island put under Turkish rule. Turkey and Greece have been at odds over who owns the island for many years.
Interesting, I always thought that Turkey invaded half of the island from Greece after which they have been living in half-war for decades.
I also thought that people were demonstrating to unite the turkish side to the greek one so that the island could join European union, of which Greece is a member of and Turkey not. Therefore it would be extremely illogical to demonstrate FOR turkish rule.
I'd be highly surprised if a country like Turkey would ever be accepted to the EU either..
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Originally posted by mjolnir
So you wouldn't mind seeing another 9/11 or two? How about four or five?
Good point MJ, wonder what it's gonna take to get him and others like him outta their "easy chair".
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Unfortunately, that's exactly what it is going to take. There hasn't yet been enough blood spilled yet; that's the bottom line.
It may strike you as odd that this is so... but it is so and you just have to accept that fact.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I'd be highly surprised if a country like Turkey would ever be accepted to the EU either..
Enh?? Whatcha getting at? Are you implying that Turkey is ok to have as a NATO partner, but not worthy of EU participation?
Why?
Just curious....
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Originally posted by Toad
Unfortunately, that's exactly what it is going to take. There hasn't yet been enough blood spilled yet; that's the bottom line.
It may strike you as odd that this is so... but it is so and you just have to accept that fact.
The Sum of All Fears
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"also thought that people were demonstrating to unite the turkish side to the greek one so that the island could join European union, of which Greece is a member of and Turkey not. Therefore it would be extremely illogical to demonstrate FOR turkish rule."
Your right, must have heard it wrong sorry. Wasn't any new links to it yesterday.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-cyprus-un0227feb27.story
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you *do* understand.
Originally posted by straffo
we french are target of the day ..
I think usually the America bashing threads begin and end bashing America.
There usually is no content in the middle.
Cause if I start a thread about Greece and Insult and bash the American more than the greek will it seen as rationnal ? or Insane ?
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
I hate to say it, but if Clinton (better yet, Reagan) were speaking Bush's words and had Bush's stance, Saddam would have already been dead for six months.
As much as I agree with his policy, Bush simply cant speak. Ive seen "Public Speaking 101" students do a better job than our President.
He commands no respect on the podium and cant convince anyone of the validity of his position because he comes off an an 8 year old.
I agree. GW Bush does not inspire me in the least. That's the Republican's fault though. They should have stood behind John McCain. I wish he were President.
I agree with muckmaw as well. Let Saddam do what he wants. After he either uses WMDs or gives them to terrorists to use, the rest of the world can come whine at us why we should come help them out of their problems.
The US is NOT the aggressor in this standoff. It has already been proven that Saddam needs to go, and there is no one that I am aware of that disagrees with that. Therefore, the world should be protesting against HIM, shouting for HIM to step down and go away.
People are too fickle. How many times did the accusations fly that the US supposedly knew 9-11 was going to happen, yet did nothing? If on 09/01/2001, the US government put a lock-down on airlines, the whole world would have accused US of being over-reactive or whatever.
What's wrong with being pro-active, rather than reactive? If everyone agrees that someday, Saddam will do something horrible again, why not stop him BEFORE it happens, rather than after?
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Originally posted by mjolnir
So you wouldn't mind seeing another 9/11 or two? How about four or five?
I don't believe our current actions will reduce the possibility of another 911. In fact, I believe that we will see an increase if we continue on this path.
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Originally posted by Midnight
What's wrong with being pro-active, rather than reactive? If everyone agrees that someday, Saddam will do something horrible again, why not stop him BEFORE it happens, rather than after?
Bingo. Not everyone agrees.
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You sound like General Mac after the korean war...
Nuke the bas-tards..........
Off topic.... Greece outlawed video games to thwart illegal gambling....
That says how primitive they are over there. Nothing against the greek people.. Ima Big fan Of Alexander the Great.
Its a shame Greece went from the most powerful nation and culture on the planet to pathetic happless haven of primates...
Food for thought....
DoctorYO
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
You sound like General Mac after the korean war...
Nuke the bas-tards..........
Off topic.... Greece outlawed video games to thwart illegal gambling....
That says how primitive they are over there. Nothing against the greek people.. Ima Big fan Of Alexander the Great.
Its a shame Greece went from the most powerful nation and culture on the planet to pathetic happless haven of primates...
Food for thought....
DoctorYO
*laughs*
In one sentence you're saying no offense to the Greek People, and in the next your calling them primates!
I think their going to take offence....:D
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Well I'd like to see the 'university' that gave Yo his doctorate LOL.
Funny stuff by someone who clearly hasn't ever even visited the country.
Hangtime: In answer to your question, human rights. They're acceptable for military co-operation but unless they do a heavy cleanup on the culture and politics, not for EU.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
This is simply not my normal behavior, but I'm just so sick of this. All this delaying has personally cost me money. Everyday, the market is coming apart because of the uncertainty of the Iraqi situation. This is minor compared to all the lives that could be lost, but this situation is affecting everyone.
Keep the uncertainty up a bit longer please. Stocks still not as too cheap as they have been too expensive some time ago, so they could still be cheaper than now.
Or go kill some people because what you have seems to be worth less - in fact it's still the same as before, just other ppls oppinions about it changed.
If you do just please let me know before you do, I need to place my orders...
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Enh?? Whatcha getting at? Are you implying that Turkey is ok to have as a NATO partner, but not worthy of EU participation?
Why?
Just curious....
1.I would say :' Kick turkey outa Nato, as they as they hitting human rights every day and yes, i don't want to see them in EU before they stop torture.'
2.The no-fly zone over iraq was established to protect the kurds. Now as Bush & Tony needs turkish bases for the war against iraq they sold kurds to the turks.
We most likely will see 2 wars now. USA/Britain versus Iraq and
Turks against northern Kurds in Iraq. Will only be a few thousand kurds more killed by turkey and not evil Saddam.
Love it
Regards Blitz
America is threathened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
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;)