Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SirLoin on February 28, 2003, 09:27:57 PM

Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: SirLoin on February 28, 2003, 09:27:57 PM
First off,I would like to say that I'm a damn good vulcher and I enjoy killing  planes on takeoff in a F4U-C...This is a valid tactic in capping and capturing bases...

Flying an "Attack" mission,killing a VH..strafing acks,blowing up town buildings and VULCHING all seem to fit the "Attack" option when you select your intention in the hanger.

However...Here is my point(idea)....If you select "Fighter" option before takeoff,your kills have to be A2A(Air to air)...A strafe of a plane rolling down the tarmac doesn't record as a kill when you waste him/her...It must be airborne.

When you land your kills in "Fighter" mode,you get a different text message...Eg.."Player XXX Shot Down 12 Enemy Planes of XXX Sqd"

When you land in "Attack" mode,you get the norm "Player XXX Landed 12 Victories of XXX Sqd".


I beleive this would add prestige and emmersion to flying fighter missions and distinguish A2A kills from Vulches.




What you guys think?

:)
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: SKurj on February 28, 2003, 11:01:50 PM
Make field Ack about 10x more effective...

Seriously


SKurj
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: NoBaddy on March 01, 2003, 12:41:51 AM
Personally, I squelch 6 when I first log in. I would rather see ground kills count as a half kill....and no I don't care about scores. But, as it is now, why would anyone on a Fighter trip risk his score to stop gv's...knowing that if he fails..it counts the same as an air to air death? For me...HT could just delete the CH6 code (and the score boards as well :D).
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: MANDOBLE on March 02, 2003, 04:14:24 AM
Implementing that would not be easy, consider that landing planes would also be affected by the rule as soon as they touch the ground. And there is little or no difference between killing a plane on the road or firing when it is just airborne and slow enough to maneouver. IMO, the main problem with the vulch fests are just the vulched pilots.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: GRUNHERZ on March 02, 2003, 12:58:59 PM
Problem we have is that vulches count as much as don A2A kills which is wrong.  However the respawn system leaves little that can be done because its not like we can strafe a fixed number of parked aircraft. People just appear out of nowhere. I'd say make it more difficult to deack a base. I can often deack an entire medium base in a Bf109G6 using only the two low velocity 13mm MG131 and stll have plently of ammo left- it's a magnitude easier with 6-8 50cals or a number of 20mm cannon.  I think we need well protected mannable quad 20mm flaks in addition to the few mannable 37mm weapons. I think its also stupid that you can kill any AI or mannable ack with just a close hit by a few rounds.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Don on March 03, 2003, 11:20:31 AM
>>I think we need well protected mannable quad 20mm flaks in addition to the few mannable 37mm weapons. I think its also stupid that you can kill any AI or mannable ack with just a close hit by a few rounds.<<

If base acks are to be effective the calibre needs to be upped, a 37mm doesn't have near the power to discourage nme a/c from coming straight in on a base. A couple of 75mm guns would suffice to make it more of a challenge to neutralize AA at a base.
Besides, the accuracy of current base acks are affected by one's connect speed etc. Hehe, why I can't hit an nme a/c at 300 yds is beyond my meager understanding.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: popeye on March 03, 2003, 11:37:50 AM
I think a quad 20mm would be more formidable than a slow firing 75mm (or the current 37mm).
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: DmdNexus on March 03, 2003, 01:35:55 PM
I agree...

I just want to know where are the bloody baloons and cables to stop the vulcing?

Additionally the scoring should take into account who has the E advantage and altitude as well as angles, and if it's 1v1 or Nv1 or NvN.

You know... it's just math! figure it out.

It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage and the score should reflect this.

Personaly... I let the guy roll down the runway and retract his gear.

You know a "sporting" chance before I blow his wing off.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Shiva on March 03, 2003, 01:46:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DmdNexus
Personaly... I let the guy roll down the runway and retract his gear.

You know a "sporting" chance before I blow his wing off.


It's called 'shooting them on the rise'...
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Red Tail 444 on March 04, 2003, 04:34:35 PM
Dont wanna get vulched, don't up from a suppressed field. Do the math.

Most of my runs are Jabo, and there's something to be said about actually diving into a base, and surviving, than taking a late model ride and cherrypicking, then running home.

maybe attack runs should count more than what they currently do. Not all of us are suicide jabos, and droppig bombs on moving GVs poses substancial risk, especially when under fire!

Want a GREAT sortie? take an F4U-4 with 100% fuel, max ordnance, jabo a base, then extend and grab alt, and fight for a bit. best all around plane in the game :)
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Vortex on March 05, 2003, 12:07:04 AM
Like NB, I squelch 6 upon entering the arena. Due to vulches, and the extreme kill numbers that people put up exploiting them (I do it too), anything represented over channel 6 is meaningless. I can't quite understand why folks get all worked up over someone landing 20 vulch kills, handing out "hurrah's" and the like. Landing 20 vulches is far less noteworthy than augering in after one good A2A fight. But I digress.

Rather than upping the hardness of ack, just lessen its respawn time considerably. Keep it down for, say, 2 minutes max. That makes things a bit more interesting.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Virage on March 05, 2003, 12:56:37 AM
I would like to see a new design that takes the focus of the game off of vulching.

Wanna hear your team howl?  Take out the last FH.  

Scoring should reflect the best players of the game, not the best vultures as it is now.  I like the idea of vulch kills not counting towards score.

For all the bad mouthing FighterAce gets, it didn't have this problem when I played it.  Ack was lethal.

What other games have successfully solved the spawn camper issue?  How can new designs be applied to AH?
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: BenDover on March 05, 2003, 02:05:21 AM
i haven't vulched anyone this tour.................wierd, but i am on rooks
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: vorticon on March 05, 2003, 01:24:17 PM
anymoron can vulch...it requires less skill than turnfighting...so really i would rather that you would get half the perks for vulches
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Steve on March 06, 2003, 04:34:24 PM
Nexus quote: It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage and the score should reflect this.

Oh my God.  That this guy hasn't been BBQ'd for this astounds me.

Am I the only one who sees this  as one of the most rediculous statements ever posted here?
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: ccvi on March 06, 2003, 05:35:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Nexus quote: It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage and the score should reflect this.

Oh my God.  That this guy hasn't been BBQ'd for this astounds me.

Am I the only one who sees this  as one of the most rediculous statements ever posted here?


Why? Something similar is already active. Shooting down earlier planes - they are at a disadvantage - scores less points.

This could be expanded by using relative E to adjust the score. It shouldn't be relative E at the moment of the kill but at the first engagement (e.g. within icon range).

This would score more points if you shoot something down that engaged you from above, OTOH it will score almost nothing if you engage something that is at 0 knots 0 GND.

edit: This would even make hunting bombers at 30k worth something. (bomber = very heavy, high altitude: very big E). Maybe mass should be considered equal for all ac though.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Steve on March 06, 2003, 07:36:47 PM
1 guy comes into icon range of 2 other planes, he is faster, a bit higher... he kills one of the guys... but since he was at an E advantage he gets  less points?  Can you imagine the server resources expended on calculating E states of relative planes as they came within icon range?

Nexus didn't say a kill should be worth more or less points anyway. he said:  It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage and the score should reflect this.

I shouldn't get credit for killin a guy because I had an advantage?  I dive though 15 enemy planes to kill a c47 about to drop troops on my base, and I should get less points, or not get credit for a kill at all?(It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage ...)

I stop an noe jabo by diving in and get less credit?  It's my fault the guy decided to fly on the deck in a heavy plane?

It's like I'm taking crazy pills.
The utter silliness of this is staggering.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: HFMudd on March 07, 2003, 09:49:06 AM
Quote
edit: This would even make hunting bombers at 30k worth something. (bomber = very heavy, high altitude: very big E). Maybe mass should be considered equal for all ac though.


You think?  If you multiply by mass then a slow Yak-9U engaging a slow P-47 at 500ft will get a bonus.  I'm not sure that is the answer you want your calculation to give.
Title: You gotta be kidding!
Post by: Gooss on March 07, 2003, 10:30:38 AM
Getting a kill requires putting the enemy at a disadvantage with the least danger to ourselves.

That may require skillful use of ACM during the fight, or SA long before the fight, or shooting the fool on the runway of a capped field.

Like the movie "Unforgiven":

"You just shot an unarmed man!"

"He should have armed himself."

Giving a bonus to "stupid" just doesn't make sense.

HONK!
Gooss
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Gypsy Baron on March 07, 2003, 11:37:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy

-SNIP-
For me...HT could just delete the CH6 code (and the score boards as well :D).



 Hear, hear!

 Now THAT's the ticket! Perhaps when AH II comes to fruition,
 the current AH version can become "scoreless", "GV-less",
 "base capturable-less"...

 And then there would be Aces HIGH...imagine THAT!

 I'd even give up driving buffs or loading external stores
 if this could be made to happen! :)
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Don on March 07, 2003, 12:44:09 PM
>>I think a quad 20mm would be more formidable than a slow firing 75mm (or the current 37mm).<<

Not if the nme fighters or buffs come in out of range of yer 20mms.
The 75mm or a nice 5 inch. gun will make a nice pattern and cover a wider area at higher alts.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: ccvi on March 07, 2003, 01:10:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
1 guy comes into icon range of 2 other planes, he is faster, a bit higher... he kills one of the guys... but since he was at an E advantage he gets  less points?  Can you imagine the server resources expended on calculating E states of relative planes as they came within icon range?


About 2 MB of data if it's implemented without using the brain, 4 multiplications and 1 addition to calculate the E - everytime two nme aircraft get closer than a certain distance, not continuously. Distance of aircraft already has to be tracked to set who's aircraft's positions are transmitted.

Quote
Nexus didn't say a kill should be worth more or less points anyway. he said:  It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage and the score should reflect this.


Nexus probably meant his post as a joke - he considered current E, not E at contact.

Quote
I shouldn't get credit for killin a guy because I had an advantage?  I dive though 15 enemy planes to kill a c47 about to drop troops on my base, and I should get less points, or not get credit for a kill at all?(It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage ...)


Sure you should get kill credit. The same way you get credit for shooting down a 109E or 202. With less points.

Though I do agree that shooting a goon near town and other heroic achivements in the war should be credited with more points.

Quote
I stop an noe jabo by diving in and get less credit?  It's my fault the guy decided to fly on the deck in a heavy plane?


Someone bounces you from high alt with high speed. After a couple of minutes you manage to take over advantage and kill him. Shouldn't you be rewarded more for doing so than shooting a low-slow con?

Quote
It's like I'm taking crazy pills.
The utter silliness of this is staggering.


Actually, I don't care what you think.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2003, 02:49:35 PM
If you didn't care, you wouldn't reply.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: ccvi on March 07, 2003, 03:58:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
If you didn't care, you wouldn't reply.


Wrong. I'm working on forcing you to care about what I think.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2003, 04:15:24 PM
Well you can stop trying to force me to care.  I already am interested in what other people think, including you.  I just think that "a kill is a kill".  Assign perk/point values to various planes... ok by me.  I'm not even sure we disagree, entirely.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Furious on March 07, 2003, 04:20:40 PM
You can make him care, but its still stupid.



F.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: ccvi on March 07, 2003, 05:22:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Well you can stop trying to force me to care.  I already am interested in what other people think, including you.  I just think that "a kill is a kill".  Assign perk/point values to various planes... ok by me.  I'm not even sure we disagree, entirely.


I think there might have been some confusion with kills and point credits. Kills are discrete values, points could be more flexible than they are now.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Steve on March 07, 2003, 06:41:25 PM
Ohhhh.. see I wasn't sure we weren't agreeing.. just not on the same page.  My only concern about the post is really: It's just not fair to get a kill when the other guy is at a disadvantage.

I guess I CAN see a valid point to giving more perks/points to a disadvantaged plane.. at first contact.   Is that doable?  I mean could the server do that?
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: bj229r on March 08, 2003, 11:07:32 AM
barrage ballons...i like that..would just slightly delay reducing the base to vulch status tho---the 5" gun like is on the cv's tho...THAT would rule..assuming it was armored as well as a panzer
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: BenDover on March 08, 2003, 12:15:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
barrage ballons...i like that..would just slightly delay reducing the base to vulch status tho---the 5" gun like is on the cv's tho...THAT would rule..assuming it was armored as well as a panzer


So you'd be able to disable them in one pass:rolleyes:
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: Vortex on March 09, 2003, 11:33:10 PM
I just don't see how one can take a vulch out of the standard "kill has been recorded" baseline. You're going to end up with a pretty complicated list of variables that need to be worked into the game.

That said, I don't think socring is the way to negate vulching. Place a cost to vulching and folks won't do it. As it is now its not too hard to de-ack a field and then off you go to vulch. Make the ack harder and more deadly and you're going the right path I think. Sure, you can still vulch. You'll die...a lot....over and over...but you can vulch!

Now your only problem is you've just made fields much harder to capture, using the current method. So you might want to just leave it well enough alone and ignore score counts entirely :).
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: DmdNexus on March 10, 2003, 01:26:14 PM
Hmmmm... my sarcasm didn't come across... hmmmm...

I thought my comments were so absurbed you guys would realize I wasn't really agreeing....

some people are rather dense.

Come on guys don't let the prop wash think for you.

Re-read my post and think - SARCASM!

Cheers,

Nexus
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: DmdNexus on March 10, 2003, 01:31:37 PM
Letting someone roll down the runway and retract their gear is not a "sporting" chance.  Hardly!

Just means they have a few more seconds before they die, and I don't waste bullets on someone popping up just to exit their plane before it blows up.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: ccvi on March 10, 2003, 01:34:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DmdNexus
Hmmmm... my sarcasm didn't come across... hmmmm...

I thought my comments were so absurbed you guys would realize I wasn't really agreeing....


Sure your sarcasm came across. Unluckily your false suggestions aren't that bad - if taking the correct variables into account.
Title: Re: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: MANDOBLE on March 10, 2003, 05:52:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
First off,I would like to say that I'm a damn good vulcher and I enjoy killing  planes on takeoff in a F4U-C...This is a valid tactic in capping and capturing bases...


BTW, I agree with you, nothing bad with that as far as the enemy is so stupid as to keep taking off from a vulched field.

What is really funny is to see the same pilot flying only for vulch sessions over and over, and, of course, flying only when vulched fields are available with heavy friendly support, even leaving the game at night time, when vulching is just a bit more difficult. You get into the game and Mr. XXX is online, you type .wingman Mr XXX and, surprise, a white dot appears in the middle of a vulched field, just in the perfect center of the base icon. You repeat the process in one more hour, where is now Mr XXX? same result, in one more day, the same result, in one more month, same result.
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: ccvi on March 10, 2003, 05:59:03 PM
Names, Mando, we want names! ;)
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: MANDOBLE on March 10, 2003, 07:23:06 PM
LOL, top secret ccvi, sorry :D
Title: Vulching and Gameplay
Post by: badbreath on March 10, 2003, 10:40:47 PM
>Now your only problem is you've just made fields much harder
>to capture, using the current method. So you might want to just
>leave it well enough alone and ignore score counts entirely

Hum, you took the words right out of my mouth.