Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: blitz on March 01, 2003, 01:40:08 PM
-
Please give more money to the turks as turkish parliament just denies american troops to use turkish bases.
This whole thing doesn't run very well.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by blitz
Please give more money to the turks as turkish parliament just denies american troops to use turkish bases.
This whole thing doesn't run very well.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
Actually parliment voted in favor, 264-250 with 19 abstentions, but the Speaker voided/over-ruled the vote, ruling that a majority of legislators present had not voted in favor. The parliment is now closed until Tuesday.
At least get your facts straight when you post your meaningless banter here.
-
Think about it. By the time this is over with Iraqi soldiers will be tired out and lining up to surrender.
YES troops are moving into Turkey! NO you can't bring troops YES you can NO you can't! . Those poor Iraqi bastiges getting run ragged.
How much you want to bet the severity of resistance will be a minimum? I don't think hardly a shot will be fired.
So much for the gazillion burning babies.
-
I think this is disgusting. I dont like the Turkish behaviour.
I mean when im pro a US only war I support the US where I can. When I'm against a US only war I dont support them. When I'm pro UN war I support UN and later US where I can, but I dont trade my country and my opinion for money, thats plain honorless.
-
Give it up blitz. I only hope your country is as completely excluded in the future development of a modernized and politically relevant middle east as you appear to want.
Face it, the middle east is the camels ass. Those people have been left behind. Partly out of their own poor choices, partly because of absolutely toejamty geography.
We got the message. The old ways are changing rapidly. Soon, royal families will look more and more like museum relics. Horrofic dictators are being eliminated as we speak. Unfortunately for our dear but recently departed friends, the Germans -all the money your country has sucked out of the US for 60 years is now going to a better cause and hopefully to a people better suited for it and far more greatful in the long run. Hopefully.
Your country has been a pissant disappointment to me and alot of others. Not all. As Amercians we cherrish the right to be wrong and many are with you my dear blitz.
I hope for the best, you want the worst. Lets bet you dont get it.
:) <--Obligitory smiley to sooth the ignorant dissenters
-
Originally posted by Yeager
. As Amercians we cherrish the right to be wrong.
All the treehuggin peacelooovers cherrish this right too, my friend.
Regards Blitz :)
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by NUKE
Actually parliment voted in favor, 264-250 with 19 abstentions, but the Speaker voided/over-ruled the vote, ruling that a majority of legislators present had not voted in favor. The parliment is now closed until Tuesday.
At least get your facts straight when you post your meaningless banter here.
Fyi, parliament wants to see another UN resolution first . (Or more money)
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Yeager Money is not the thing u can get friends with.
As u are disappointed from germany im diasppointed by the imperialistic behaviour of the US (has nothing to do with the war vs Iraq is worng or right).
And i dont see the US as a good antetype cause as i said many times beefore u dont live in a democracy u live in a plutocracy and that's something i hate like Grunherz communism.
-
Blitz and Straffo...the dynamic duo that has created more animosity towards their respective nations than any dictator could have.
-
Originally posted by Duedel
And i dont see the US as a good antetype cause as i said many times beefore u dont live in a democracy u live in a plutocracy and that's something i hate like Grunherz communism.
Uh...did you just say that you hate the US as much as Grunherz hates communism?
I think we have another PR ambassador for Germany here...
-
Its not important if the turkish parliament allows the US forces to enter Turkey for the attack against Iraq or not.
If they refuse the turkish military will act and so everything will be ready for the war against Iraq.
Also there is no doubt that the USA will attack Iraq with some auxiliary nations.
They will win easily against this battered and ridiculous iraqui forces, depose mad dog Saddam, put in a puppet regime, call it a great victory and leave the country in the same chaos like in Afghanistan. Then we will have to face the problems with the kurds against the arabs, the kurds against the turks, the shiites against the sunnites and so on.
There will also not be any deocracy in iraq as there havent been in Kuwait although it was promised there before the liberation.
And the hundred thousands of iraquis who will die in this conflict or because of the fightings follwing the great and fantastic victory are surely happy that they gave or will give their lifes for great phrases like "the war against terrorism" or "democracy in the middle east" or whatever the propaganda people will speak about.
I am normally strictly against the socialist government of Germany, have never elected another party than the CDU and I am also a member of the conservative CDU.
And although I am sure that I will never vote the socialists in future I must admit that I have respect for the socialist chancellor of Germany who is not following this idiot Bush like a little dog but trying everything to prevent a stupid and senseless war.
He will loose this political struggle - we all knows this. But by doing this fight against the pro war fanatics he is much more respectable than people who are sad because a delay of the beginning of a war.
-
remember one thing guys. Remember how Bush Sr. used the media to fool sadaam. I personaly have a hard time believing anything I'm hearing on the news about our troops. AND - Who said we need turkey anyway?
-
Hey Hortland already got ur greencard?
-
Originally posted by Duedel
Hey Hortland already got ur greencard?
Nope, dont want one either...I wouldnt trade my country for anything. There is no way I'll ever move to the US or any other nation. Simple as that.
BUT I do realize that the US are the ones defending us Euros right now, even though most of us doesnt want to see that or admit that. Heck from the looks of things, most of us euros want to pretend that there is no threat against us at all.
You, Blitz, Straffo, you are all doing your best to look the other way, pretend there is no threat, or perversly enough, you act as if the US was the threat. I have lost so much respect for you guys in these past weeks that I cannot begin telling you how much.
Because what you do is dangerous. And you probably dont even realize that. For some reason you dont want to realize that the bad guys hate us just as much as they hate the US.
Some of you personify all the worst things about Europe. Straffo is doing a he** of a job at displaying the French arrogance...but Blitz is the one taking the prize with his "Iraq is not a threat" mantra. For some reason he doesnt realize that the combination of mad dictator and biological weapons spells real danger for all of us...germs doesnt stop at borders. He also fails to realize that there are American targets in the middle of europe too, embassies, military bases, hotels...you name it. Any B or C attack against such a target would be just a big a victory for the terrorists as an attack on the continental US.
As I said, I have lost alot of respect for you guys since these discussions started on this BB, and frankly, you all just keep working your way down.
-
US does not need turkey, and after the 5 day "war" and saddam is deposed , the turks will say "what do you mean we don't get the 6 billion , we were GOING to help you"
-
OK Hortlund my last effort to tell u my peronal opinion:
There are
1. The ones that say "NO WAR" regardless of what Mr. Hussein does and the UN says
2. The ones that say "TRY TO AVOID WAR. BUT IF NO OPTIONS ARE LEFT WAR SHOULD BE THE LAST INSTANCE" (Thats my opinion)
3. The ones that say "START WAR NOW, ALL IS DONE TO AVOID IT"
The last 2 can have an interesting discussion here.
The things that really annoy me about the US government (and u) are that they dont accept different (Point 2) opinions or say that everyone that has opinion No. 2 has opinion No. 1 and is an enemy of the US (Mr. Bush: who's not with us is against us).
This is an imperialistic behaviour that can only be explained by plutocratic interests or overreaching patriotism. Both things are things I hate and yes I hate plutocracy very much cause the human being is worth nothing in it.
Edited for Mr. Nuke
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Nope, dont want one either...I wouldnt trade my country for anything. There is no way I'll ever move to the US or any other nation. Simple as that.
BUT I do realize that the US are the ones defending us Euros right now, even though most of us doesnt want to see that or admit that. Heck from the looks of things, most of us euros want to pretend that there is no threat against us at all.
You, Blitz, Straffo, you are all doing your best to look the other way, pretend there is no threat, or perversly enough, you act as if the US was the threat. I have lost so much respect for you guys in these past weeks that I cannot begin telling you how much.
Because what you do is dangerous. And you probably dont even realize that. For some reason you dont want to realize that the bad guys hate us just as much as they hate the US.
Some of you personify all the worst things about Europe. Straffo is doing a he** of a job at displaying the French arrogance...but Blitz is the one taking the prize with his "Iraq is not a threat" mantra. For some reason he doesnt realize that the combination of mad dictator and biological weapons spells real danger for all of us...germs doesnt stop at borders. He also fails to realize that there are American targets in the middle of europe too, embassies, military bases, hotels...you name it. Any B or C attack against such a target would be just a big a victory for the terrorists as an attack on the continental US.
As I said, I have lost alot of respect for you guys since these discussions started on this BB, and frankly, you all just keep working your way down.
I got no idea why we're so dangerous?????
Just 3 guys telling others what they personaly think about a war against Iraq.
Didn't noticed Straffo, Dudel and me changed history lately :D
Regards Blitz
Blitz and Straffo...the dynamic duo that has created more animosity towards their respective nations than any dictator could have.[/B]
btw Hortlund, if ya judge over a country because of the personal opions of two single folks , nobody can help ya.
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
"TRY TO AVOID WAR UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES BUT IF NECESSARY MAKE WAR" (Thats my opinion)"
That makes zero sense..... avoid war under all circumstances? That means "ALL" circumstances I assume, which translates into no war ever.
That's the problem with opinions like yours...... at what point are you willing to concede that war does become an option? Maybe another 12 years? At what point would you say war is an option?
-
Nuke Im very sorry that my english is not good enough to make u understand it. I'll edit it.
-
Duedel, Blitz...
what if the alternatives are:
a) go to war before April, or
b) wait 8 more months
You think Saddam is stalling now? What do you think will happen in late March/early April when the weather sets in effectively making any offensive operations in Iraq impossible?
Why are you acting as if there was an infinite amount of time to play with? "give the inspectors 4 more months" is the exact same thing as saying "Give Saddam at least 8 more months to do whatever he wants however he wants to do it" meanwhile, the US will have a troop deployment in place that will cost millions of dollars per day.
Get this:
We know that Saddam has Bio and Chemical weapons...we know that.
We also know that the French sold uranium to Iraq in the 80:s. Uranium that has not been accounted for.
So ok, we know that Saddam has B & C, we also know he has radioactive material.
The only two alternatives right now is
a) disarm him before April, or
b) wait 8 months.
option b btw will lead to an end to the weapons inspections simply because the US cannot afford having all those troops in place, they will have to pull out, meanwhile Saddam will know that no attack can possibly come during the summer... The inspectors, no matter how many there are, will spend another summer in Iraq chasing shadows.
Iraq has had 12 years to disarm. What makes you think another couple of months will do any difference?
-
Hortlund I'm with ya if u say Iraq is one of the most badest dictaturships in the world but its not the only one.
Its the wise the US wants to achieve its interests that makes me angry. Pressure, defamation, misinformation, egoism, imperialistic utterances all comes with an ignorance of many many things regarding the coalescence of the world (p.e. Kyoto protocol).
Furtherone besides the really good things the US has done in the past there are many bad things the US has done to gain advantage over the Soviet Union. Sometimes one could say the US now gets the payback for supporting idiots like Hussein and Laden but to say this would be (IMHO) disgusting cause many people died. Died caused by the US foreign policy and died caused by fanatic terrorists.
If it would be so easy to say: kill this Hussein and have peace.
No one can appraise what will happen in the middle east after an invasion.
I'm asking me why cant the arab nations handle this problem? Why the US want do to it so badly?
-
Originally posted by Udie
remember one thing guys. Remember how Bush Sr. used the media to fool sadaam. I personaly have a hard time believing anything I'm hearing on the news about our troops. AND - Who said we need turkey anyway?
Shhhh.... common sense is NOT allowed during Iraq discussions!!!! :mad:
Unemployment does not silly effect German economy in way any rediculous.
-
The best way to end this whole affair would have been for every free nation to support the US. That threat alone would have sent Saddam packing without any, or perhaps just a single shot being fired. Thanks to France, Russia amd Germany, Hussein sees a potentiol way out and is remaining in power. His Allies are coming to his aid in oblique ways and he is happy.
As a result Bush is going to have to force the issue and God knows what could happen next. Thanks alot you Allies. Might even get me or good friends killed because of your advanced virtues. Idiotic and mornic.
No doubt France Germany and Russia's oil business dealings with Saddam have a hell of alot more to do with this than any BS coming out of the DisUnited Nations.
To hell with France. We only liberated your sorry tail because we had to clear a path to Germany. To hell with Germany, you ungreatfull damned barbarians. Crushed you, Rebuilt your sorry sacks, protected your dumb hides from the USSR at a cost of billions and billions and many tens of thousands of lives and all we get in return is your anal grab for France.
You guys piss me off. Sucks that my countrymen ever wasted their lives on your sorry hides.
Never again.
-
Originally posted by Duedel
Hortlund I'm with ya if u say Iraq is one of the most badest dictaturships in the world but its not the only one.
Its the wise the US wants to achieve its interests that makes me angry. Pressure, defamation, misinformation, egoism, imperialistic utterances all comes with an ignorance of many many things regarding the coalescence of the world (p.e. Kyoto protocol).
Furtherone besides the really good things the US has done in the past there are many bad things the US has done to gain advantage over the Soviet Union. Sometimes one could say the US now gets the payback for supporting idiots like Hussein and Laden but to say this would be (IMHO) disgusting cause many people died. Died caused by the US foreign policy and died caused by fanatic terrorists.
If it would be so easy to say: kill this Hussein and have peace.
No one can appraise what will happen in the middle east after an invasion.
I'm asking me why cant the arab nations handle this problem? Why the US want do to it so badly?
The arab nations cant handle it. Its as simple as that. Any arab-arab war right now would create one gigantic arabian civil war. No arab leader wants that, so they are staying well clear of this one. Most Arab countries right now are pro-US...simply because it is a bad idea to be arab and anti-US right now. So they have to act US friendly. At the same time, public opinion in these nations are very hostile towards the west. So you have a situation where the leadership and the population are on collision cource in most arab nations.
Now I must ask you...why is everyone so hung up on the fact that Iraq is not the only dictatorship in the world? What is the point with that line of reasoning? I mean what are you trying to say? "There are more than one dictatorship in the world, therefore we cannot go to war against any single one of them because we cannot choose which one to take first"?
No Iraq is not the only dictatorship. It is one of the most dangerous ones however. And it is one of the few dictatorships that has the mad dictator + wmd combination (N Korea being the other one). It is also THE ONLY dictatorship where the mad dictator has used chemical and biological weapons against his enemies before. Iraq is a threat. No matter what blitz says.
So you dislike the way the US handles its policy. What about the French then? You are aware that almost everything you said about the US applies to France too...right?
"Pressure, defamation, misinformation, egoism, imperialistic utterances all comes with an ignorance of many many things..."
That could also describe China, India, Russia...heck it could describe alot of nations. Why have you singled out the US as the object of your hatred?
Same goes for the "deaths caused by US foreign policy". Although I strongly suspect you are caught in some media version of this US foreign policy. But as you say, it is truly disgusting to say stuff like that...so you really should not even hint it.
Take a look at France and Algeria. If you want to hold the US responsible for their foreign policy, you really should hold France responsible too. The current situation in Algeria is a DIRECT result of French foreign policy. So is the war in former Yugoslavia. France and Germany are the root causes behind that one (for recognizing Slovenia)...yet I dont see that many people out in the streets chanting "death to France"...You know, this list can be made just as long as your list of reasons you dislike US foreign policy...so again the question arises, why have you singled out the US as the object of your hatred?
Its absurd! Especially now when the US is carrying the entire burden of the war against terror alone...while nations like France and Germany are doing all they can to make the war tougher and more dangerous for the US. The sad part is, France and Germany are doing this out of economic reasons, and they are doing it against the nation that is protecting all of us right now. Because as I said, the terrorists see us as just as legitimate targets as the US. They are fighting against the western world, our way of life. ...and even if they didnt...Bio weapons dont stop at borders.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
The best way to end this whole affair would have been for every free nation to support the US. That threat alone would have sent Saddam packing without any, or perhaps just a single shot being fired. Thanks to France, Russia amd Germany, Hussein sees a potentiol way out and is remaining in power. His Allies are coming to his aid in oblique ways and he is happy.
As a result Bush is going to have to force the issue and God knows what could happen next. Thanks alot you Allies. Might even get me or good friends killed because of your advanced virtues. Idiotic and mornic.
No doubt France Germany and Russia's oil business dealings with Saddam have a hell of alot more to do with this than any BS coming out of the DisUnited Nations.
To hell with France. We only liberated your sorry tail because we had to clear a path to Germany. To hell with Germany, you ungreatfull damned barbarians. Crushed you, Rebuilt your sorry sacks, protected your dumb hides from the USSR at a cost of billions and billions and many tens of thousands of lives and all we get in return is your anal grab for France.
You guys piss me off. Sucks that my countrymen ever wasted their lives on your sorry hides.
Never again.
Yeager this is so pathetic it could serve as a good plot for the next speech of Mr. Rumsfeld.
-
I love these anti-US guys from Germany and France, how exactly does the US stance on Iraq concern or affect you? Why do you care what the US does in Iraq?
Are you concerned for the people of Iraq?
I'm waiting for your answers....... ready to tear you up with simple logic and basic common sense, so please answer.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Get this:
We know that Saddam has Bio and Chemical weapons...we know that.
I have no doubt about it.
Who else than the USA should know that mad dog Saddam has a large arsenal of chemical weapons?
As the man who has been the US-ambassador in Iraq until the Kuwait crisis said, the USA itself has delivered chemical weapons to Iraq so they could use them against the Iranian forces which were breaking through iraqui lines.
The 125 Thousand iranian soldiers who were killed by gas weapons died the same way as the iraqui kurds did in halabja because the kurds were defined as enemies collaborating with Iran.
So its ridiculous if the USA blame Saddam for tehe massacre on the kurdish civilians, because the gave him the weapons whoi killed these innocents.
When Iran tried to get a protest and sanctions through the UN it was the veto of the USA who prevented that Iraq was blamed for using chemical weapons - which is forbidden by the Geneva-protocol.
But its also a fact that today no direct neighbor of Iraq fears Saddam. Syria, Iran, Saudia Arabia and Turkey met in Ankara to discuss how the US-attack could be prevented.
A war will be a great danger for the region. There is no doubt that Saddam will we wiped out - but what comes next ?
The iraqui Kurds, Shiites and Sunnites are ready for a civil war.
The Turks are ready to intervene in northern iraq to "help the turkish minority against kurdish terrorism".
Iran is ready to intervene in order to secure the most holy shiite places which are in Iraq.
The arabs are ready to fight the non-arab nations - like Iran or Turkey.
Afghanistan is a good example how a so called victory could fail. Today Afghanistan is in the same chaos as in the last decades an there is no hope for this country for a very long time.
The same will happen in Iraq. It will get the same democracy which was promised in the propaganda-phase to Kuwait.
Simply none.
So its good that so many nations and people oppose the war which will nevertheless come.
-
Originally posted by Yeager
The best way to end this whole affair would have been for every free nation to support the US. That threat alone would have sent Saddam packing without any, or perhaps just a single shot being fired. Thanks to France, Russia amd Germany, Hussein sees a potentiol way out and is remaining in power. His Allies are coming to his aid in oblique ways and he is happy.
As a result Bush is going to have to force the issue and God knows what could happen next. Thanks alot you Allies. Might even get me or good friends killed because of your advanced virtues. Idiotic and mornic.
No doubt France Germany and Russia's oil business dealings with Saddam have a hell of alot more to do with this than any BS coming out of the DisUnited Nations.
To hell with France. We only liberated your sorry tail because we had to clear a path to Germany. To hell with Germany, you ungreatfull damned barbarians. Crushed you, Rebuilt your sorry sacks, protected your dumb hides from the USSR at a cost of billions and billions and many tens of thousands of lives and all we get in return is your anal grab for France.
You guys piss me off. Sucks that my countrymen ever wasted their lives on your sorry hides.
Never again.
To whom ya wanna sell your goods then yeager?
It's all about freedom and democracy, rofl .
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by blitz
To whom ya wanna sell your goods then yeager?
It's all about freedom and democracy, rofl .
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
Do you honestly think we need to sell our goods to your pathetic ingrate country? We have enough resourses here to keep to ourselves, something I hope we will do once we end the terrorist scourge. Let russia rebuild and then let em take your sorry assed country, probably what we should have done to begin with. At least countries like Polland and other former soviet states understand what America did for Europe.
Yeager's post is spot on target.
-
Originally posted by Udie
Do you honestly think we need to sell our goods to your pathetic ingrate country? We have enough resourses here to keep to ourselves, something I hope we will do once we end the terrorist scourge. Let russia rebuild and then let em take your sorry assed country, probably what we should have done to begin with. At least countries like Polland and other former soviet states understand what America did for Europe.
Yeager's post is spot on target.
The time of peasants are gone udie, we write 2003, it's the decade of globalism.
Every developped nation need the others to trade with, even the mighty USA.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by babek-
I have no doubt about it.
Who else than the USA should know that mad dog Saddam has a large arsenal of chemical weapons?
As the man who has been the US-ambassador in Iraq until the Kuwait crisis said, the USA itself has delivered chemical weapons to Iraq so they could use them against the Iranian forces which were breaking through iraqui lines.
[/b]
So much ignorance crammed into one post...
Saddams B&C capability comes from Germany not the US. US companies supplied other material (mostly stuff useful in the Nuclear program, and various hi-tech equipment). B&C are more low tech, and it was German companies that built several entire gas factories. Of cource officialy they were to manufacture insect pesticide...but for some reason they ended up manufacturing gas and bio weapons.
WHAT IS IT WITH GERMANS AND GAS ANYWAY?
Take a look at what the Germans supplied:
Samarra drug agency
Prime production facility for Iraqi mustard gas and nerve agents.
Reported in 2001 by August Hanning, the director of German intelligence (BND), to be developing new chemical weapons.
Parts for the Samarra chemical weapon complex:
Water Engineering Trading (Germany)
Site construction services: Heberger Bau (Germany)
Equipment for six separate chemical plants, including facilities and construction components: Karl Kolb and Pilot Plant (Germany)
Equipment for chemical, physiological and biological analysis (Germany)
According to Hanning, "important components for the production of poison gas" (Germany)
So its ridiculous if the USA blame Saddam for tehe massacre on the kurdish civilians, because the gave him the weapons whoi killed these innocents.
[/b]
Here you manage to be hopelessly wrong two times in one sentence. First it was the Germans who provided Saddam with B&C, second it is completely irrelevant how he got his weapons. If you buy a gun and then shoot a random pedestrian, the one responsible for the murder is you, not the gun shop owner.
When Iran tried to get a protest and sanctions through the UN it was the veto of the USA who prevented that Iraq was blamed for using chemical weapons - which is forbidden by the Geneva-protocol.
[/b]
Yeah, nobody likes Iran either...what's your point?
But its also a fact that today no direct neighbor of Iraq fears Saddam. Syria, Iran, Saudia Arabia and Turkey met in Ankara to discuss how the US-attack could be prevented.
[/b]
Why do you think they dont fear Saddam? Could it be the fact that the US has over 100 000 troops in the region? Could it be that Syria, Iran fear the US more than anything else, simply because they are terrorist sympathizers themselves and know they are on the list? Tell you what, if the US pulled out of the region completely...and I mean completely, never to return...do you think maybe Kuweit would fear Iraq? Saudi? The nation begging on its knees for US protection in 91....do you think they would feel threatened or not?
Its pathetic. These pissant countries survive only because the US guarantees their borders, then they gather in some "woe is us"-meeting. The hypocricy is absurd.
A war will be a great danger for the region. There is no doubt that Saddam will we wiped out - but what comes next ?
The iraqui Kurds, Shiites and Sunnites are ready for a civil war.
The Turks are ready to intervene in northern iraq to "help the turkish minority against kurdish terrorism".
Iran is ready to intervene in order to secure the most holy shiite places which are in Iraq.
The arabs are ready to fight the non-arab nations - like Iran or Turkey.
[/b]
heheh I acutally laughed alot at this one "secure the most holy shiite places" . But yes, there is a problem with what happens afterwards. But dont worry, they will figure out some sort of solution. Now whether that is to divide Iraq like Germany 45, or insert a US military governor and keep the borders, I dunno. I dont care either to be frank. You think there will be trouble in the region after the US has defeated Iraq? I doubt it considering the fact that there will be over 100 000 US troops at the scene. That should cool down even the most passionate terrorist.
Afghanistan is a good example how a so called victory could fail. Today Afghanistan is in the same chaos as in the last decades an there is no hope for this country for a very long time.
[/b]
Sorry, Im gonna call BS on this one. If you honestly are saying that Afghanistan is in a worse position today than two years ago, you are either a taliban or an idiot. *edit* Hmm...on the other hand it isnt possible to be a taliban without being an idiot, so I suppose the alternatives should be "either you are a taliban idiot, or a normal idiot".
The same will happen in Iraq. It will get the same democracy which was promised in the propaganda-phase to Kuwait.
Simply none.
Do they want democracy? Are they ready for democracy from day 1? It is an honest question. Is democracy from day 1 desireable and/or achevable?
I dont think so. Not from day 1. But thats just my personal opinion.
But guess what, what ever they are getting, they will be getting a life that is a lot better than what they are having right now.
-
Originally posted by babek-
put in a puppet regime, call it a great victory and leave the country in the same chaos like in Afghanistan.
Please, PLEASE make the case that the people of Afghanistan are worse off now than they were under the Taliban.
PLEASE. Give us a good long post.
I think that would be very entertaining.
-
I have been trying for the past 15 minutes to recall when was the last time I purchased something made or imported from western europe?
Im of the opinion, as far as consumable goods, either short or heavy duration it has been twenty years. I think it was either a very used 67 VW squareback for school commute or a swiss wristwatch I bought for my older brother (the one that broke almost immediately) somewhere back in 1983.
As far as european cars: The VW actually did quite well off road.
Other than that, a horse is far more dependable than any german car ever made and a hell of a lot cheaper.
You guys are screwed without the US and to a lesser extent Chinese economies powering your puny little semi coherant EU economic engines.
Get real with the lengthy list of criminal actions commited by the US in Iraq and middle east. Look in your own damned government for criminal frauds and human rights abuses before condemning the last great superpower. Yeah, the one thats saved your rear end from your own damned ignorance three seperate times in 50 years.
-
Its really easy to say go to war go to war!!
When it aint your butt doing the fighting!!!!!!
Bush needs to do some thinking on this i thiink.
Look I am sick and tierd od hearing of these piss ant raghead countries and there terrorisom.
But you cant beat them by force you will only win by being smarter than them.
If we go to was with Iraq quess what all od the Muslims will really hate us then!
Then what you think the twin towers where something?
It wern shiot my friends get them stirred up and see what a marter old saddum will be.
Heres an idea maybe we should try to learn of there culture nad and be friends with them !!!!
Oh thats right its the right thing to do so we probably wontLOL.
-
Originally posted by rc51
Its really easy to say go to war go to war!!
When it aint your butt doing the fighting!!!!!!
Bush needs to do some thinking on this i thiink.
Look I am sick and tierd od hearing of these piss ant raghead countries and there terrorisom.
But you cant beat them by force you will only win by being smarter than them.
If we go to was with Iraq quess what all od the Muslims will really hate us then!
Then what you think the twin towers where something?
It wern shiot my friends get them stirred up and see what a marter old saddum will be.
Heres an idea maybe we should try to learn of there culture nad and be friends with them !!!!
Oh thats right its the right thing to do so we probably wontLOL.
HITECH , we really really need a spell checker in here, please
-
Interesting take on WWI there. How do you view the 1st and 2nd Battles of the Marne?
-
what's the third?
oh come on you really don't know? It was none other than the red menace, the one and only EVIL EMPIRE!
Or did you think it was the peace loving peoples of the world sittin' around a campfire singin' kumbaya that just miracled the wall down?
-
Americans are going to stop buying Merc's and Bimmer's and Porsche's because of this? ...
i assure you.. if the propoganda/media machine and the dreaded spinmeisters get ahold of the concept that french and german WMD equipment is being used by iraqi's to kill americans... your toejam will be thoroughly Un-PC to own or use here in a matter of WEEKS.
Folks will insist "If it ain't Boeing, We ain't going." Chrysler will be clipped from mercedes, BMW's won't be safe in an outside lot, every french bottle of wine in this country will be pitched over your embassy walls, every upscale clothing store will tout it's new spring-non french fashion line...
Don't you get it? Owning anything german or french will make that owner a target for some very angry relatives of dead americans. And very angry americans don't wanna hear platitudes. they want action. when they discover they can take effective immediate action of their own accord against your products without the government doing a damn thing.. they will.
You euro's just don't get it.. we're pissed. you're making a big freakin mistake thinking we'll keep buying yer toejam when it's apparent yer involved in killing americans.. or permitting it to happen... we don't even need the government to touch tarrifs or trade agreements. yer toejam will just rot on our docks because folks will simply refuse to buy it. And they've already started to wake up.
I already have dropped every French and German supplier on the job... and have discovered the pacific rim has everything we used to get from you pinheads.. usually for a lot less. Yer French Presidents antics have already inspired me to reduce my companys operation costs by 6%. And I'm not alone. Already we're gettin in motors that state clearly on them.. NOT MADE IN FRANCE. The pacific rim has learned how to market goods here.. and they are FAST on the uptake.
You guys are gonna pay for pumping up Saddams ego and re-arming him in defiance of the UN embargo.. Count On It.
-
But will BMW bashing, Mercedes mashing and Peugeot punching replace cow tipping as an Olympic sport?
-
Save No. 1) Saved you from the Russians in 1945. They were very upset with your trying to kill them in 1941, 42, 43, 44 and 45.
Save No. 2) Saved you from the Ruines of war. Rebuilt you after we bombed the toejam out of you and Russia beat you nearly to death as a nation because you were very very mean to them.
Save No. 3) Saved you from the Russians again (Cold War). That was a very tense era, remember? Eventually, beat the Russians with a vast and wealthy economy IN SPITE of what it cost to destroy you for being murderous bastards in the 40s, rebuilding you in the 40s, 50s, and still into the 60s.....because we learned that ignoring you after beating the toejam out of you just pissed you off more -and then we protected you from the Russians who were STILL PISSED 40 years later and wanted to smack you down again.
Thanks? Oh, dont mention it.
(toejamkers......)
-
yeager dude your just raving.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Blitz and Straffo...the dynamic duo that has created more animosity towards their respective nations than any dictator could have.
Hurl bigtoe, at least put some vaseline next time you bend over.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Saddams B&C capability comes from Germany not the US.
[/B]
So why the x-US-ambassador in the Iraq during Iran/Iraq-war confirmed in the interview that the USA sent most of the chemical weapons. He didnt said anything about Germany (although its also clear that nearly every nation in the world was selling weapons to both war parties).
The point is that (also) the USA delivered Saddam chemical weapons.
Originally posted by Hortlund
If you buy a gun and then shoot a random pedestrian, the one responsible for the murder is you, not the gun shop owner.
[/B]
LOL. So whats your point ? That the USA delivered Saddam the gas weapons but never expected that he would use them because of the Geneva treaty ?
Ridiculous.
Originally posted by Hortlund
Yeah, nobody likes Iran either...what's your point?
[/B]
The point is that there exists a treaty signed by every civilized nation which strictly forbids the use of chemical weapons.
And after Saddam used chemical weapons it was the USA which prevented any sanctions against Iraq because of that war-crime by putting in their Veto.
Thats the point - not that anyone likes or dislikes Iran.
The point is that if a war criminal is defined as a useful ally it will be protected even by US-Un-vetos and it doesnt matter what crimes the criminals have done.
If the USA had accepted or ignored that Saddam butchered a civilian kurdish city and killed thousands Kurds with gas weapons
by putting their Veto in the UN-council it is really ridiculous if they today blame this act as a barbarian crime which has to be sanctioned with a war.
Originally posted by Hortlund
Why do you think they dont fear Saddam? Could it be the fact that the US has over 100 000 troops in the region?
[/B]
No.
The simple fact is that every of these nations have a much stronger military than the battered Iraq. Also they have political interest that Iraq will not break apart in a civil war.
The US-troops are not bringing stability in the region but could destroy this stability for decades.
Originally posted by Hortlund
You think there will be trouble in the region after the US has defeated Iraq? I doubt it considering the fact that there will be over 100 000 US troops at the scene. That should cool down even the most passionate terrorist.
[/B]
LOL - try to analyse the situation in Iraq and their mix of peoples. They couldnt get under control by hundredthousands of soldiers and you really belive that some US-nboys could handle the situation in Iraq?
They even were not able to bring peace in Afghanistan - which was nearly dead.
Originally posted by Hortlund
If you honestly are saying that Afghanistan is in a worse position today than two years ago, you are either a taliban or an idiot.
[/B]
Just have a look at Afghanistan.
Is there Peace ? No
Is there even hope for peace ? No
Could the puppet called Karsai move outside Kabul without foreign escorts ? No
They would kill him 5 kilometers outside like they did with the soviet puppet Najibullah.
Have the women got more rights ? No
Like in Taliban time they have to live the same life they did before.
Have the clanwars ended? No
In the southeast you have the pashtuni warlords - supported by Pakistan, who have established the same system like the Talibans did. They dont call themself Taliban but its only the name which has changes.
In the west the whole Herat province has been occupied by a iranian puppet, in the northeast the warcriminal "General" Dostum, supported by the CIA has his terrorregime - killing and suppressing non-usbekian races.
And in the rest of the country you have less powerful warlords who are fighting each other day by day.
In Kabul the Karsai regime has lost 4 of its ministers by assassinations.
There are some propaganda projects showing us in TV how good the development in Afghanistan is now.
But the soviets had the same propaganda shows during their occupation of Afghanistan.
In reality nothing has effectivly changed. They are still fighting a bloody civil war and destroying every hope of a future for many following afghan generations. The women still have no rights.
Not quite a victory for democracy.
But at least the AlQuaida lost some bases...
And now try imagine how the situation could develop in a country with three racial and religious different groups which hate each other so deeply like in Iraq.
Combine this with the fact that these factions are also devided and fighting each others.
And put in the fact taht foreign nations like the Turks or the Iranians or the Syrians have also their relations and interests with these iraqui groups.
You will need much more than 100000 US troops to get this chaos under control. Because they dont fight an open war. They are experts in guerilla wars - they had to fight that way for decades.
Get inside this chaos and many inncocent US troops will have to pay the price for the stupid policy of their president.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Take a look at France and Algeria. If you want to hold the US responsible for their foreign policy, you really should hold France responsible too. The current situation in Algeria is a DIRECT result of French foreign policy.
Once again you show your incompetence an lack of knowledge hurl bigtoe.
Explain me how the founder of the GIS (trained in Afghanistan by american conseiller with the help of Saoudian money) are related to France ?
Is your therapy going good mister judge ?
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
i assure you.. if the propoganda/media machine and the dreaded spinmeisters get ahold of the concept that french and german WMD equipment is being used by iraqi's to kill americans... your toejam will be thoroughly Un-PC to own or use here in a matter of WEEKS.
Folks will insist "If it ain't Boeing, We ain't going." Chrysler will be clipped from mercedes, BMW's won't be safe in an outside lot, every french bottle of wine in this country will be pitched over your embassy walls, every upscale clothing store will tout it's new spring-non french fashion line...
Don't you get it? Owning anything german or french will make that owner a target for some very angry relatives of dead americans. And very angry americans don't wanna hear platitudes. they want action. when they discover they can take effective immediate action of their own accord against your products without the government doing a damn thing.. they will.
You euro's just don't get it.. we're pissed. you're making a big freakin mistake thinking we'll keep buying yer toejam when it's apparent yer involved in killing americans.. or permitting it to happen... we don't even need the government to touch tarrifs or trade agreements. yer toejam will just rot on our docks because folks will simply refuse to buy it. And they've already started to wake up.
I already have dropped every French and German supplier on the job... and have discovered the pacific rim has everything we used to get from you pinheads.. usually for a lot less. Yer French Presidents antics have already inspired me to reduce my companys operation costs by 6%. And I'm not alone. Already we're gettin in motors that state clearly on them.. NOT MADE IN FRANCE. The pacific rim has learned how to market goods here.. and they are FAST on the uptake.
You guys are gonna pay for pumping up Saddams ego and re-arming him in defiance of the UN embargo.. Count On It.
With this kind of post I've trouble distiguishing some USA citizen from Nazi.
same behaviour == same scum.
-
Originally posted by straffo
With this kind of post I've trouble distiguishing some USA citizen from Nazi.
same behaviour == same scum.
Amusingly enough that is why the rest of us are having trouble telling the difference between the French and a bunch of spineless cowards.
-
Originally posted by Saintaw
Hurl bigtoe, at least put some vaseline next time you bend over.
Et tu Saw eh? Thanks.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
If Iraq attacks the US we will all stand by your side, like we did with regard to Afghanistan, but until then you're on you're own ... with as many "allies" you can buy or blackmail.
Edit: ... and nutjob fascists like Judge Hortlund here of course.
Exactely , but now we don't have any selfdefense situation.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
i assure you.. if the propoganda/media machine and the dreaded spinmeisters get ahold of the concept that french and german WMD equipment is being used by iraqi's to kill americans... your toejam will be thoroughly Un-PC to own or use here in a matter of WEEKS.
Folks will insist "If it ain't Boeing, We ain't going." Chrysler will be clipped from mercedes, BMW's won't be safe in an outside lot, every french bottle of wine in this country will be pitched over your embassy walls, every upscale clothing store will tout it's new spring-non french fashion line...
Don't you get it? Owning anything german or french will make that owner a target for some very angry relatives of dead americans. And very angry americans don't wanna hear platitudes. they want action. when they discover they can take effective immediate action of their own accord against your products without the government doing a damn thing.. they will.
You euro's just don't get it.. we're pissed. you're making a big freakin mistake thinking we'll keep buying yer toejam when it's apparent yer involved in killing americans.. or permitting it to happen... we don't even need the government to touch tarrifs or trade agreements. yer toejam will just rot on our docks because folks will simply refuse to buy it. And they've already started to wake up.
I already have dropped every French and German supplier on the job... and have discovered the pacific rim has everything we used to get from you pinheads.. usually for a lot less. Yer French Presidents antics have already inspired me to reduce my companys operation costs by 6%. And I'm not alone. Already we're gettin in motors that state clearly on them.. NOT MADE IN FRANCE. The pacific rim has learned how to market goods here.. and they are FAST on the uptake.
You guys are gonna pay for pumping up Saddams ego and re-arming him in defiance of the UN embargo.. Count On It.
You sound to me just like any other fanatic guy in the world. Looks like there's absolutely no difference between a hamas, al qaida, old nazi, communist or you in thinkin. These fanatic thinkin is what causes most problems.
All ya can do is rant and calling names on other countries which (are still your friends) and threat them with war. I'm pretty glad that not all americans think like you do.
Hangtime youre gettin old. Try a fresh breeze at the seaside.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Amusingly enough that is why the rest of us are having trouble telling the difference between the French and a bunch of spineless cowards.
Come here to say that in front of me neutral bastard.
Concidering your genetic heritage you the son of some coward who flew the Russian instead of fighting I grant you the right to speak about cowardise.
You have 1st hand information and experiences about what a real coward is.
-
Originally posted by straffo
Come here to say that in front of me neutral bastard.
Concidering your genetic heritage you the son of some coward who flew the Russian instead of fighting I grant you the right to speak about cowardise.
You have 1st hand information and experiences about what a real coward is.
LOL my dad was born in 1950 you moron. And to hear a Frenchman talk about cowardice in the genetic heritage is just too funny.
You are really slipping Straffo...what's next? Some smirk remarks in French?
-
So who was raped by a soviet peasant in your familly my dear mister judge ?
Not you I hope ?
A judge without dignity ... the horror ...
And my genetic is fine mister Judge as fine as the genetic of a coward neutral swedish judge at least my grand father fighted the nazi and was not a Zelot of Hitler.
-
Originally posted by straffo
So who was raped by a soviet peasant in your familly my dear mister judge ?
Not you I hope ?
It was my grandfather who lost his family fleeing from East Prussia in 45. Grandfathers two brothers (aged 7 and 14), two sisters (aged 16 and 20), his mom and dad and uncle and uncles family. Raped, tortured, murdered.
Did you have a point to all this? Or did you just want to hold this up as an example of my bad genes?
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
Did you have a point to all this? Or did you just want to hold this up as an example of my bad genes?
yep.
-
Well, you sure are French Straffo...nuff said.
-
Originally posted by straffo
Come here to say that in front of me neutral bastard.
Hi straffo.
Isnt it funny that someone of Sweden is making jokes about french ?
After they had used their incest bloodlines and managed to produce only insane kings they begged the french Bernadotte to become their new king.
Maybe some swedish judges of today also need some fresh french blood to correct again some genetic abnormalities :D :D :D
-
Originally posted by babek-
Hi straffo.
Isnt it funny that someone of Sweden is making jokes about french ?
In case you hadnt noticed, the entire world is making fun of the French...
-
Yes Hortlund, "Spineless cowards" who turn away from their buddies, because they want to make sure they side with the biggest bullies (on a BBS.)
sad.
-
Originally posted by Saintaw
Yes Hortlund, "Spineless cowards" who turn away from their buddies, because they want to make sure they side with the biggest bullies (on a BBS.)
sad.
Are you serious?
As I said earlier in this thread, what Straffo, Duedel and Blitz has been posting in the past few weeks have made me lose almost all respect for them. Straffo just went completely over the line when he tried to score some cheap points on my grandfather and how he lost his family, so for him I have no respect whatsoever.
But that has got nothing to do with me wanting to side with the "biggest bullies" on this BBS (whoever they are). That is about my personal opinion. I can see that it bothers you, and I can see that it has been bothering Straffo et al...but that is a two way street you know. What they are saying, and how they are saying it...lets just say I never thought they were like this.
I can tell that you feel I have cowardly turned my back on them apparently... I see it differently, if I had known for example, that Straffo was like this, I would never have wanted to fly with him in the first place. Not in a million years.
-
Originally posted by Hortlund
In case you hadnt noticed, the entire world is making fun of the French...
Everyone is making jokes about other nations.
About the people of Poland who only live to steal cars.
About the US-Americans who have only a hollywood-disneyland culture.
About the french who are eating frogs.
About the people from UK who arent able to make sex (but somehow reproduce themeself)
About the germans who still are all nazis and eating sauerkraut.
And so on...
But only a minority takes these for serious and use them in a argumentation why for example france and germany are opposing a war policy.
-
Since 3 month you are virtually sucking the d* of the biggest guy of the block .
What do you expect ? respect ?
If you look and behave like a b*tch what are you looking to ?
Answer is not : a girlscout.
-
What Hang posted is merely a somewhat heated version of what a lot of folks are thinking here.
It's no declaration of war nor does it mention war at all. It has nothing in commmon with "Nazis" at all.
What it is, is a reaction THROUGH PERSONAL CHOICE to the French and German actions at the UN and on the international media stage.
For the French and Germans to do what they are doing and think they..... and their products.... will be regarded in the same way as before by US citizens is unrealistic in my opinion.
French and German leadership has "dissed" the US, not just Bush. There's going to be some folks that take exception to that. Major exception. And it is certainly the right of those folks to shop where they feel they are appreciated.
For you French and Germans that think you can act like that without deserving any reaction..... well, let's see that is EXACTLY what you accuse us of thinking, right? And criticize us for?
:D
How do YOU like it?
I don't own any Euro cars, nor have I ever wanted one although I could easily have afforded any of them. I've never been impressed with them, considering the abilities/capabilities I require from a vehicle.
So, that's never been an issue for me. Will I cry if other folks quit buying them? Nope. Not a tear.
As for other French/German products..... never did use many of them. I used to buy some French food and wine. Those days are over forever.
Enough drops of water make a waterfall.
-
Originally posted by straffo
Explain me how the founder of the GIS (trained in Afghanistan by american conseiller with the help of Saoudian money) are related to France ?
Was there an election in Algeria a couple of years ago?
Who won that election?
What happened after the election?
Who supported the army in what they did after the election?
-In the answer to these questions you find the direct cause of the current civil war/terrorist campaign in Algeria.
If you want to go a bit deeper and look for root causes:
Was there a civil war/guerilla war in Algeria before its independence?
What country was ruling Algeria until 1960-something?
What country used its foreign legion to keep control of Algeria before Algeria was granted independence?
Whether you like it or not, the French track record in Algeria is much worse than the US track record in Vietnam.
Speaking of Vietnam...what is your impression/opinion of the Foreign legions anti guerilla tactics against the Viet Mihn in the 50:s? What is your opinion of the fact that the legion used ex German SS soldiers (who were kinda experienced at fighting partisans) to "do their thing" in Frenc Indochina?
Straffo, you are a hypocrite. You have alot to say about the US and what they have done or havent done. But when someone points out that the French track record is just as bad, and in some cases even worse than the US, you react like Boroda...or you post in French to avoid the issue.
-
how your last post is related to your genome ?
-
Originally posted by Toad
What Hang posted is merely a somewhat heated version of what a lot of folks are thinking here.
It's no declaration of war nor does it mention war at all. It has nothing in commmon with "Nazis" at all.
Wrong ,it share at least one thing : THE HATE.
US give us freedom but not the autorisation to use it...
-
There is alot of "Hate" here in Europe also.
-
Originally posted by straffo
Since 3 month you are virtually sucking the d* of the biggest guy of the block .
What do you expect ? respect ?
If you look and behave like a b*tch what are you looking to ?
Answer is not : a girlscout.
This is an example of an intelligent response?
I wish HT would create a new forum for this crap.
Lately every thread is a hair-pulling, name calling, nail scratching cat fight when it involves world politics and certain Euro posters. I also believe that Blitz, Straffo, Hortlund, et al, are lucky that HT has provided this place for them to share their views with us, but it's getting rediculous! Animal was right.......did I just type that??
I think its great that HT has provided a forum for this stuff, I just wish he would provide a special category for it as well.
As a US Citizen that has traveled to many parts of Asia, including Pakistan, and to Europe (my line of work takes me to factories, etc) I have always enjoyed the people I've had the honor of meeting and working with.
BUT, also as a US Citizen, I have grown very tired of the anti-US stuff spewed here that is dressed up as "anti-Bush" (straffo's reply quoted here is an example of that, same with Blitz's). You criticize my government, you criticize my country.
Normally, I don't give two toejams about nationality and the fake pride associated with it. UNTIL, it is continually attacked by the crap I see here.
What is going to happen in Iraq is going to happen whether we think attacking each other on this BBS will stop it or not. So why don't we, as people who share a common interest and hobby, at least keep the discussions respectful, and not act like our political leaders do?
Cobra
-
It's not an intelligent reponse I know.
But anyone wanting to improve my gene pool and never stopping to bash me and my country can't expect any thing else.
And explain me why I should support with a smile french bashing coming from some of the biggest network and newspaper from the US of A.
Because we don't agree with the USA we are shown as worst than Saddam ?
Expect no respect afterall you don't give any to non US opinion.
-
Originally posted by Toad
What Hang posted is merely a somewhat heated version of what a lot of folks are thinking here.
It's no declaration of war nor does it mention war at all. It has nothing in commmon with "Nazis" at all.
What it is, is a reaction THROUGH PERSONAL CHOICE to the French and German actions at the UN and on the international media stage.
For the French and Germans to do what they are doing and think they..... and their products.... will be regarded in the same way as before by US citizens is unrealistic in my opinion.
French and German leadership has "dissed" the US, not just Bush. There's going to be some folks that take exception to that. Major exception. And it is certainly the right of those folks to shop where they feel they are appreciated.
For you French and Germans that think you can act like that without deserving any reaction..... well, let's see that is EXACTLY what you accuse us of thinking, right? And criticize us for?
:D
How do YOU like it?
I don't own any Euro cars, nor have I ever wanted one although I could easily have afforded any of them. I've never been impressed with them, considering the abilities/capabilities I require from a vehicle.
So, that's never been an issue for me. Will I cry if other folks quit buying them? Nope. Not a tear.
As for other French/German products..... never did use many of them. I used to buy some French food and wine. Those days are over forever.
Enough drops of water make a waterfall.
Some of you guys looks to me as if ya got nothin but hatred in your hearts. Ya may want to see a priest.
Already forgotten that we helped ya with Afganisthan and that our warships still cruising at Africa supporting you?
Arrogant behaviour doesn't solves nothin nor does economical war. I feel pity for some of ya.
If i want a piece of junkfood from time to time i decide as ever:
'German Currywurst mit Pommes Frites or Big mac ' and it' still by chance which one i take on.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by straffo
It's not an intelligent reponse I know.
But anyone wanting to improve my gene pool and never stopping to bash me and my country can't expect any thing else.
And explain me why I should support with a smile french bashing coming from some of the biggest network and newspaper from the US of A.
Because we don't agree with the USA we are shown as worst than Saddam ?
Expect no respect afterall you don't give any to non US opinion.
I didn't say you had to agree.
You don't like the french bashing of biggest network and newspaper, then write to them and try to get into their Letters to the Editor section. As far as I know, this board won't get you there.
I've seen you handle the Frog attack stuff here pretty well.
If this is tit for tat, then fine.....have fun irritating the toejam out of yourself..
All that is gonna get you is pissed-off, and not much else. You know that.
Cobra
-
Please Blitz,
You are, or have become, what you protest against.....hate and arrogance.
Cobra
-
Originally posted by straffo
Wrong ,it share at least one thing : THE HATE.
US give us freedom but not the autorisation to use it...
No, Straffo. It isn't hate.
But it isn't "love" or "like" either.
Many people have come to realize that other countries really don't like the US for whatever reason. Many of us think it may just come down to envy because the US certainly hasn't harmed, for example, France or Germany. To the contrary, we think we've been quite helpful.
So, it's merely a matter of realizing that someone you thought was your friend... probably isn't. I think that's closer to the attitude. Certainly, it's not hate.
We've been rebuffed and reviled and some are just deciding that there's no point in supporting that.
It's merely a personal choice.
-
Same for you Blitz. It isn't hatred at all and I think you realize that.
But in your topsy-turvy world where Kim Jong Il is just a poor misunderstood humanitarian leader of a wonderful worker's paradise and the Evil USA is oppressing him and trying to start a war......
BTW, have you noticed you don't have to look very far in Europe to find truly arrogant behavior? Mr. Chirac's recent comments stand out, don't they? But WE'RE the only arrogant ones. :D
Economic war? No, I don't think so. But do you shop at a store where they curse you, revile you and spit on you every time you walk in the door? Or do you go to the store where they say "Hello my friend!" every time you come in? Natural human reaction, wouldn't you say? No hatred in it....... except possibly on the curse/spit/revile side.
You folks had your say and had your "big moment" chastising the Great Satan Superpower.
Now, the other shoe drops. Maybe we would just rather spend our money where people say "Hello, my friend!"
-
sorry Toad I'm perhaps (well certainly...) biased but I read Hang post as a hate phamplet.
The situation is juste the sudden revelaition for some US citizen that we are in a sort of coopetion more than cooperation. And that the time of clientelism has ended (at least for some European country).
@cobra : I know it's not for me the good period to stop smoking :D
-
Hehe Straffo.
I quit about 14 years ago....cold turkey, never had another one since, but it was brutal.
Actually, before I smoked I chewed tobacco. That was even tougher to quit!
Cobra
-
Originally posted by Cobra
Please Blitz,
You are, or have become, what you protest against.....hate and arrogance.
Cobra
Soo? How? Did i call people names or their country?
Do i have this revengefull : 'We get your country with economical war' attitude.
I read this Off Topic board for 3years now and i can tell you i disagreed very often with this neoconservsative BS.
Very seldom i took position. I just moved along because i'm here to have some fun with guys from all over the world but the reactions from some guys here when rumpsfeld insulted my country was just enough to wake me up.
I'm bashing your government , not you but for some americans that seems to be the same. Can't help ya then.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
Originally posted by Toad
Same for you Blitz. It isn't hatred at all and I think you realize that.
But in your topsy-turvy world where Kim Jong Il is just a poor misunderstood humanitarian leader of a wonderful worker's paradise and the Evil USA is oppressing him and trying to start a war......
BTW, have you noticed you don't have to look very far in Europe to find truly arrogant behavior? Mr. Chirac's recent comments stand out, don't they? But WE'RE the only arrogant ones. :D
Economic war? No, I don't think so. But do you shop at a store where they curse you, revile you and spit on you every time you walk in the door? Or do you go to the store where they say "Hello my friend!" every time you come in? Natural human reaction, wouldn't you say? No hatred in it....... except possibly on the curse/spit/revile side.
You folks had your say and had your "big moment" chastising the Great Satan Superpower.
Now, the other shoe drops. Maybe we would just rather spend our money where people say "Hello, my friend!"
You know very well how i think about NK government, no need to tell any lies.
Never said Chirac couln'd be arrogant but looks like your government startet that toejam about a year ago.
We hadn't our 'big moment'. we have a hard time watching Bush & Tony startin playin football with the globe.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain rediculous
-
If you had any vision, you'd see what dictators threaten the world, not to mention murdering and oppressing their own populations. NK and Iraq BOTH fit that description.. but you can't seem to see that.
If anyone is playing football with the globe, it's THOSE sort of people. And those that support them openly or through inaction.
And you never have clearly staked out your position with respect to NK and the IAEA/UN Security Council. Something is going to have to happen there. The UN will act, not act or dither around a few more years. Still don't know what YOU think they should do.
-
Well John though my spelling is not great it is much better than you thought process or lack there of.
-
Germany is not threatened by North Korea in any way.
Its rediculous......
-
Alright guys, I can't take it any longer. There is no "e" in ridiculous.
My spelling is far from perfect but that was really getting to me.
;)
-
Originally posted by AKIron
Alright guys, I can't take it any longer. There is no "e" in ridiculous.
My spelling is far from perfect but that was really getting to me.
;)
Whew, I thought it was just me.
-
Originally posted by straffo
It's not an intelligent reponse I know.
But anyone wanting to improve my gene pool and never stopping to bash me and my country can't expect any thing else.
There is a saying in my country. "He who enters the game, must face the consequences of the game."
Meaning, in this case, that since you are one of the few posters in here that actually support Chirac and the current French policy, and you do so alot and very vocal. You will rightfully catch flak for it.
The problem you have Straffo, is that you tend to argue over other things than the actual questions at hand. Thus a discussion regarding French policy towards Iraq, turns into you accusing people of being nazis, or trying to score points on other peoples family tragedies. You will note that no one replies in kind to you. Sure we might say that the French track record when it comes to wars "fought" and wars lost probably aint the best in the history of mankind...but that is something completely different than accusing someone of being a nazi.
You also have a peculiar tendancy of claiming to get upset and post some drivel in some unknown language, or you just put people on your ignore list and brag about it afterwards.
See, it is very hard to take someone like that seriously. It is even harder to take someone like that seriously when he comes sobbing about how mean we are against him because we are thrashing his country.
I can give you numerous examples of you diving into a discussion without anything to say. Instead you just dive into the thread, insult someone for a while, then jump back out while whining over your hurt ego or something.
P a t h e t i c
"He who enters the game, must face the consequences of the game."
If you dont want to get your ego hurt, then stop insulting people, if you dont want to see France getting bashed, then stop defending its policy. It is very simple.
-
Originally posted by Toad
If you had any vision, you'd see what dictators threaten the world, not to mention murdering and oppressing their own populations. NK and Iraq BOTH fit that description.. but you can't seem to see that..
Good idea to remove them but that's not Americas choice.
It's not Your world, it's our world.
To deal with it we need the United Nations but they can't do much if Mr.Bush & Co spit on them.
' We go to war with Iraq with or without UN '
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
-
Originally posted by AKIron
Alright guys, I can't take it any longer. There is no "e" in ridiculous.
My spelling is far from perfect but that was really getting to me.
;)
Thx Mr. Sheet Medal :D
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
-
Originally posted by blitz
Good idea to remove them but that's not Americas choice.
It's not Your world, it's our world.
To deal with it we need the United Nations but they can't do much if Mr.Bush & Co spit on them.
But mr Blitz...surely you are aware of the fact that the UN cannot, will not, and is not allowed to interfere in other nations domestic situations.
So in this case that would mean the mad dictators get to stay in power, opress, torture and murder their own citizens, and build whatever hellish weapons they see fit.
Take a look at the UN charter. Chapter I, Art 2 (7)
Let me quote it for you.
Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
Meaning that as long as a mad dictator stays within his own borders, he can do whatever he damn well pleases.
So this is your solution to the Iraq and N Korea situation? Do nothing?
-
Originally posted by blitz
Good idea to remove them but that's not Americas choice.
It's not Your world, it's our world.
To deal with it we need the United Nations but they can't do much if Mr.Bush & Co spit on them.
Again you seek to dodge the issue by blaming the US for the inability of the Security Council to act.
The IAEA has put this matter before the Security Council. You (I think) agree that Kim Jong Il with nukes is a problem for the entire world.
Now let's see how France, Germany, Russia and the rest of the SC deal with NK.
This is NOT a US problem; I think the US is reacting perfectly. We're still sending food but we're not discussing NK demands until they cease the reinstatement of the nuke program the IAEA has proscribed.
So, the US isn't creating this crisis; NK is. Now let's see what the SC does about it.
I am willing to wager that the answer to that is "nothing".
-
Originally posted by blitz
Thx Mr. Sheet Medal :D
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
You're welcome. And while I'm at it, you probably mean metal rather than medal.
-
Completly wrong Hurl bigtoe ,my hate for you can be traced back to the day you spoke with an outstanding knowledge of the Oradour massacre.
You still didn't explained me how the muder done by the Nazi were less horrible than the murder done by the Soviet.
You still didn't have explained why it was justifiable to kill child ,woman and elder as a proper retaliation for the werhmacht (I did not write SS, I've wrote werhmacht).
I didn't say anything when you rejoined our squad but now I'll do my possible to make your return impossible.
-
Originally posted by straffo
Completly wrong Hurl bigtoe ,my hate for you can be traced back to the day you spoke with an outstanding knowledge of the Oradour massacre.
You still didn't explained me how the muder done by the Nazi were less horrible than the murder done by the Soviet.
You still didn't have explained why it was justifiable to kill child ,woman and elder as a proper retaliation for the werhmacht (I did not write SS, I've wrote werhmacht).
I didn't say anything when you rejoined our squad but now I'll do my possible to make your return impossible.
Seriously straffo you need to start taking some medication. If you are telling the truth, then you need to seek professional help. To hate someone you've never met, over a discussion on a BBS is not healthy.
Anyway...
How unexpected to see you explode into yet another personal attack...this one on a different theme though. Apparently I didnt react enough when you were calling my dead relatives cowards just because they were raped and shot instead of killed in action?
About the Oradour massacre, I honestly suspect I have read more about that one than you. But on the other hand you are French, so you probably feel you know more about it than me becuase...well...because your French or something.
But this new line of attacking me is interesting. Maybe you could start by telling me (and indeed everyone else) what I have said that gave you the impression that the Oradour massacre was somehow justified, or when I have ever said that German warcrimes are more acceptable than Soviet warcrimes.
Frankly I think you should blame bablefish or your own language skills, because I know I've never said anything like that.
-
Originally posted by Toad
Again you seek to dodge the issue by blaming the US for the inability of the Security Council to act.
The IAEA has put this matter before the Security Council. You (I think) agree that Kim Jong Il with nukes is a problem for the entire world.
Now let's see how France, Germany, Russia and the rest of the SC deal with NK.
This is NOT a US problem; I think the US is reacting perfectly. We're still sending food but we're not discussing NK demands until they cease the reinstatement of the nuke program the IAEA has proscribed.
So, the US isn't creating this crisis; NK is. Now let's see what the SC does about it.
I am willing to wager that the answer to that is "nothing".
Get a clue Toad.
What i don't want is 1 country dictates who's to live and who's to die.
Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO.
We won't come together here. It's 2 totally differnt political opinions, nothin personal. You won't convince me and vice versa.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
-
Originally posted by blitz
Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO.
So you are only allowed to attack someone after they have attacked you?
How about this analogy. You tell me when it is ok for me to take out my gun and shoot the other one.
I am walking down the street.
I meet a man.
The man stops me.
The man tells me he hates me.
The man tells me he hates my family.
The man tells me he wants to kill me and kill my family.
The man puts his hand into his pocket.
The man pulls out a gun.
The man aims the gun at me.
The man starts to pull the trigger.
When, in your opinion is me using force against this man justified?
-
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous [/B][/QUOTE]
How about you tell me what's to stop Kim Jong Il from deciding who's to live and who's to die in South Korea?
Or are you going to trot out some laughable inanity like South Korea is in more danger from the US than NK?
Tell me this:
Assume the UN Security Council, despite the urging of the IAEA to "do something" fails to act because.. let's say.. oh.. France, Germany and Russia all oppose action.
Then a starving NK lobs a nuke into Seoul and Tokyo to prove their manliness and seriousness in demanding more fee food.
How will you feel about your "Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO" policy then?
Because count on this. The UN SC won't do anything about NK and their nukes.
-
Originally posted by GScholz
Hahahahaha ... Americans are going to stop buying Merc's and Bimmer's and Porsche's because of this? ... Yeah right!
Which automaker makes the most money? ... Porsche. Who's number two? ... BMW. Where do you all think they're making the most money? ... The US of A.
Prolly going to cost you even more now, but you'll keep buying them, oh yes you will, because you can't make a single car that can compete in quality, performance and style.
If Iraq attacks the US we will all stand by your side, like we did with regard to Afghanistan, but until then you're on you're own ... with as many "allies" you can buy or blackmail.
Edit: ... and nutjob fascists like Judge Hortlund here of course.
Ill be willing to bet that imports wont sell as well in America in the next 2 years if relations dont improve.
I would hesitate before I bought anything German now, whereas I have owned german automobiles before.
I surely wont buy anything French already.
I am sure I am the only American that feels this way so far.
Pffft yall dont need our moneys anyway.
And if Iraq attacks us I would rather yall sleep in.
I dont want any German or French help anymore. I am a fickle person I guess, I dont like yall much anymore.
I am sure I am the only one tho
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
i assure you.. if the propoganda/media machine and the dreaded spinmeisters get ahold of the concept that french and german WMD equipment is being used by iraqi's to kill americans... your toejam will be thoroughly Un-PC to own or use here in a matter of WEEKS.
Count On It.
Well dang Hang you said it so well.
They dont get it.
We buy out of pity for you guys
-
Blitz
From one German to another.....STFU you are getting on my nerves!!!
I feel better now:)
Carry on
T0J0
-
yah.. our efforts in WWII and WWI were akin to changing the water level of the dead sea by peeing in it.
First time in my life I've considered putting up that damn 'rolleyes' icon.
Straffo.. Blitz.. I don't hate you. You'll know when my displeasure with the french and their apologist lackeys turns to hate.
In short, don't hate the French... I merely despise them. I disliked the french prior to this.. but it was only a mild dislike, with a penchant for poking fun at their sad modern attempts at greatness despoiled by sharp contests with brighter more determined adversarys.
Now I despise them for actively seeking to preserve saddams reign.
You should endeavor to hold the line at 'despise'. You don't wanna think about what comes your way when we change that to 'hate'.
-
Do a little reading on the impact of fresh and eager troops on the Germans. See what you think then.
We all know what French morale was by then about zero. Note the widespread mutiny after the Nivelle Offensive,which was a virtually unmitigated disaster for the French Army in April of 1917. Petain agreed not to commit his forces to offensive operations thenceforward.
At the Marne, US forces were credited with stopping the German advance.
Americans took the offensive at St. Mihel, a lesson in combined arms operations.
Americans are credited with the breakthrough at the Meuse, gaining as much as five miles a day in November. Do you think this offensive had anything to do with the German's deciding to give it up?
As for the often heard "The USA was VERY reluctant to get involved in the European war" you are absolutely correct. I wonder why? Eh? Did you ever read Washington's Farewell Address?
Well, I assure you many if not most Americans had after WW1 and prior to WW2. I'm sure you know the US Congress passed the Neutrality Act forbidding the supply of arms to belligerents in the event of war in April of 1935. No dummies they. That was LONG before any hostilities broke out in Europe and only about 2 years after Hitler came to power. So, US reluctance to become involved in any European war was WELL KNOWN to European countries long before they started shooting at each other. To expect us to jump right in once the Euros lost control..... through absolutely no fault of ours..... is a bit much, I think. Not to mention illegal, considering the Neutrality Act.
Your optimistic contention that the Soviets would respect former national borders is probably not shared by those countries that had Soviet troops on their soil when the war ended.
The point you miss in the Cold War is the effect of many thousands of US troops nose to nose with the Soviet armies. It's the same effect US troops have in Korea right now. They kept things from getting out of hand just by being there. Had the balloon gone up, it would have been a major disaster for the world. But, IMO, the presence of US troops was a key factor in keeping the balloon on a tether.
Final note: I doubt there is any Euro government that doesn't have irrefutable information that Saddam has WMD and is also a murderous dictator that has oppressed and killed his own people.
We've clearly taken the lead on removing him for those reasons and what we perceive as a threat to ourselves.
Now, we would think that given those two realities, our "friends" would give us the benefit of the doubt on this one. We're not asking anyone else to do the fighting; we're not begging for French, Russian or German troops. We merely want UN support and Security Council sanction.
Apparently that is too much to ask of someof our "friends". Perhaps we've learned something about the true meaning of friendship here as well.
As to the boycott..... I doubt it will be very organized or very effective. But I'll wager there is some drop in sales with respect to products of those countries.
-
Originally posted by Hangtime
yah.. our efforts in WWII and WWI were akin to changing the water level of the dead sea by peeing in it.
First time in my life I've considered putting up that damn 'rolleyes' icon.
Straffo.. Blitz.. I don't hate you. You'll know when my displeasure with the french and their apologist lackeys turns to hate.
In short, don't hate the French... I merely despise them. I disliked the french prior to this.. but it was only a mild dislike, with a penchant for poking fun at their sad modern attempts at greatness despoiled by sharp contests with brighter more determined adversarys.
Now I despise them for actively seeking to preserve saddams reign.
You should endeavor to hold the line at 'despise'. You don't wanna think about what comes your way when we change that to 'hate'.
You really hate us.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
-
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous
How about you tell me what's to stop Kim Jong Il from deciding who's to live and who's to die in South Korea?
Or are you going to trot out some laughable inanity like South Korea is in more danger from the US than NK?
Tell me this:
Assume the UN Security Council, despite the urging of the IAEA to "do something" fails to act because.. let's say.. oh.. France, Germany and Russia all oppose action.
Then a starving NK lobs a nuke into Seoul and Tokyo to prove their manliness and seriousness in demanding more fee food.
How will you feel about your "Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO" policy then?
Thanks for your insight, in advance.