Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Topcat on August 06, 1999, 09:34:00 AM
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Here's a quote from the AH 'Graphics' section information:
Graphics alone don't make a game, but they can add alot to it or detract from it. We wanted the graphics in Aces High to be as immersive as the rest of the game
Unfortunately, the Spitfire screenshot shows an aircraft that appears to be marked incorrectly. As far as I am aware, no British squadron had the 'BB' letters. Will this error be corrected, or am I wrong?
I'd really appreciate an answer to this (I asked earlier with no response) - seems that if you ask about LW paint jobs then everyone troops out to reassure the community that all will be correct. All you have to do is mention that the tops of the 109 wheel struts are the wrong colour and you get an artwork redesign.
Aircraft markings are quite fundamental things, guys. Certainly more fundamental than little red stripes on the wheel struts (although I agree it's important to get all details correct)
I'd be happy to suggest a few correct historical markings if you like (some squadrons that flew the Mk.IX), but I'm sure you guys have plenty of reference material (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
[This message has been edited by Topcat (edited 08-06-1999).]
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Sorry but i dont have a clue of the BB markings, but however I do miss the exhaust openings on the Spit, or are they there and it is just me who can`t see them ?
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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
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Topcat, from what I can gather the screenshots that we've seem so far don't resmble the completed product.
I say this because I read a post on here from someone critising the cockpits and the accuracy of the 109 scheme. Pyro's reply was that these were early versions and in now way represented the final one.
Cheers
Paul Bradford
[This message has been edited by Bradburger (edited 08-06-1999).]
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Don't tell me the Spitdweeb anti-LW whiners are going to be on Aces High as well!!!!
Eeeeeeek!!!
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Ok, so I know that BBA doesn't stand for any historical markings during WWII. Since I was using references from many different Spit9's, I didn't use a specific marking. I didn't want to play favorites with any one squadron. The markings mean something, but uh, that's kind of my own little secret. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) As for the exhaust openings on the nose, at the time I hadn't made them. They are on the plane now.
Patience! For the jedi it is time to eat as well!
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"
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Hey, if we can guess what BBA stands for do we win a prize? Perhaps we might be able to name the next plane to be modelled, or perhaps we may gander into the Alpha testers board? HMM?
-blk-- <JG5>
The preceeding does in no way indicate that I (-blk--) have any intention nor inclination to participate in such a contest, and should not be taken to indicate that I have any notion nor idea as to the origins of the marking "BBA"
PS-read that real fast and it will sound like the lawyers at the end of commercials.
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Superfly's girlfriend probably justed ticked him off the night before he did the art and so therefore "BBA" which or course is a reference to "Brenda's Big prettythang."
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LOL!!!
Sorry Bad Omen. You're far from correct on that one, especially since I don't have a girlfriend at the moment. However, I do know a girl named Brenda. heheheh! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
If anyone knows sanscrit, you may figure it out. May you acheive enlightenment in your search for the answer.
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"
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Why are they worried about paint jobs? When they find out the UFO Energy Device has been removed from the D-fire, THEN they will have a squeak.
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Ah Superfly why didn't you say so! Sanskrit, of course!!
BBA: Bdweebit Bwerkun Anglospit
Roughly translates to "Dweeb Machine of the British."
Sorry, its been a long week at the office, I am kinda punchy.;-)
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Ok, so I know that BBA doesn't stand for any historical markings during WWII. Since I was using references from many different Spit9's, I didn't use a specific marking.
Sorry to have to say this, but that's a really lame excuse. Why not choose to stick un-historical markings on the LW aircraft rather han single out the RAF for this indignity? Looks like the LW conspiracy lives (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) So much effort is put in to getting the graphics on these aircraft correct, but no one gives a damn about the RAF.
Funked - <never mind - probably not worth it>
Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
[This message has been edited by Topcat (edited 08-06-1999).]
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Call the fire department, I think I see FLAMES
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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Oh, and SUPERFLY.
The "Flying Tiger" designed by Walt Disney for the "American Volunteer Group" Flying in China, Late 1941 to Mid 1942 was not a squadron marking. The squadron Markings were the China Doll/Hells Angel, Green Apple/w Black Snake and Eve Chasing Adam, and A Panda Bear. So I don't want to hear anything about it being a squadron marking, it was a unit marking.
I believe that I can provide the mil-spec number for the Sand and Spinach Colors that Curtiss/Wright used to paint the aircraft.
There are color pictures from RT Smith but my understanding is that they are a couple shades darker than the aircraft actually were.
Also as far as I know all the nose cones of the P-40Cs and Es that flew in China were Spinach Green. I think the one that flew over Chino was inaccurate. I got ahold of the AVG association and asked if there were any red nose cones, and never got an answer.
anyhow. I have several books on the P-40 and if you need something let me know.
Sorry can't really speak for the spit or the 190.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
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--- Topcat: ---
Why not choose to stick un-historical markings on the LW aircraft rather han single out the RAF for this indignity?
--- End ---
As for WB, just ask FT how many questions/messages he has gotten WRT LW color schemes in WB from me or rh53. I bet more than he would care for. They are not historically correct.
Nor was the G-10 picture seen for AH before, and there's no assurance it would be of any specific squadron like you are requesting RAF a/c to be. There's more to historically correct markings than some squad emblems or letters.
//fats
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As for WB, just ask FT how many questions/messages he has gotten WRT LW color schemes in WB from me or rh53. I bet more than he would care for. They are not historically correct.
Man, I don't even have anything to do with this game and I'm getting flamed on the message board! AAAAGH! (grin)
FT
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<punt>
Enough already!!!!!
-ta---
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Topcat I sent you an email.
But that "LW Conspiracy" crap is just that, utter crap.
The main LW planes in WB are respectively 1500 lbs overweight and 400hp short. I'll leave you to guess the planes.
Also we have USAAF/USN fighters that get every possible a/g loadout and even optional gun loadouts, while one of the greatest multirole planes of the war (Fw 190) gets a centerline bomb and nothing more.
I'm not saying "waaa feel sorry for Luftwaffe pilots", but there is nothing in the game to support a conspiracy.
One thing: There may be some history that I don't know about to support a conspiracy theory. I've only recently flown with a Luftwaffe squad, and I can't say I've followed too many partisan debates in the past. So if I'm missing some info please tell me.
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Thanks all for the replies, especially the HTC crew (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
As far as I know, many of the aircraft in WB were designed to be specific aircraft, or from specific squadrons (eg the Ki61, the P51D), and I thought it was just the RAF that were getting short-changed.
Obviously I'm wrong, so I'll shut up now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<Salute> all
Funked - got your e-mail, thanks. Believe me, it's not just the LW types that feel agrieved by the all-options-available that the US aircraft have traditionally had. The same issues relate to the Brtish planeset in that regard as the German.
Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
[This message has been edited by Topcat (edited 08-06-1999).]
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Wait FT's reading this?
Woohoo let's flame him about 6-views!!!
LOL <S> dude I still stick up for you on AGW. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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So the P51 in Warbirds isn't modelled on a famous fighter group? Seems like double standards to me... shove a bit of green and grey camo on an aircraft and leave it at that... yet everyone else seems to get the paint schemes they require (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Seems to me if your going to honour the memories of these guys that fought and died in this conflict then the least you can do is paint the aircraft right... who was the guy who flew a P51 on his own and defended an entire bomber group... had all his guns jam on him except one... killed a total of 6 enemy aircraft and defended the group to the target... he was rewarded with the highest honour I think... who was the one RAF fighter command pilot to be rewarded the Victoria Cross... I think there was only one. Which unit did Eric Hauptman fly for... paint the 109's in that colour scheme... I can think of no better.
<dons flame retardent suit and stands well back>
Regards
Daren
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Beaz
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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Topcat: Point taken. We'll switch the markings.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Pyro - really?!!! Wow! Thanks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I never seriously expected anyone to listen, but I knew you guys really do care about the history of it all so I thought it was worth a go.
Thank you very very much - I really appreciate it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) And thanks also for taking time to check the board on a Saturday - you guys can't be getting much time off at the moment.
Beaz, about the Victoria Cross - the chap was flying a Hurricane (and I do realise you know this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) - it's a slight plug for when they get around to modelling the aircraft)
Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
[This message has been edited by Topcat (edited 08-07-1999).]
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I agree with Topcat and Beaz. I think the markings should represent units or individuals aircraft as a tribute to their deeds.
It is also nice to see Pyro et al actually respond and listen to our requests!
I also would like to eventually see the ability to edit the a/c 'skins' ala what Microprose just released for EAW. This would be something that works on your FE only, I don't want to see anything added to the what needs to be transmitted as part of the data, like what HT said. However, for scenarios especially, if we are to be allowed to create our own terrain, it would be cool if we could offer correct markings that would be a separate optional d/l to correspond to that terrain. IOW if someone did a Finnish campaign terrain, with lots of snow, it would be cool if there was an optional art set that had the I-16, MiG-3, LaGG-3, Me-109, Brewster Buffalo, Fokkers in correct Finnish and Soviet markings and in winter camoflage.
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Just to let you guys know, we weren't trying to single out anyone. Pyro didn't want me to use any single markings because I used several different references on the spit 9. The plane is representative of a certain airfield (I don't have the reference in front of me right now). Anyway, I can see that you guys have bugged Pyro enough about the markings, so I guess I'll be changing them to something else. >:P
The P51 is, I believe, George Preddy's plane. Again, I don't have the reference in front of me. I'm no WWII fanatic, so don't flame me for that. I also didn't mean any disrespect to any of the brave pilots of WWII. I'm just trying to have some fun man. Chill... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"
[This message has been edited by SUPERFLY (edited 08-09-1999).]
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Two quick comments:
Monkey, record the markings somewhere PLEASE. Someone may write a book about AH sometime...
The Hurri 1 would also be great as Pattle's AC whenever it gets done.
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Krod
nitro@nitro.co.za
Krod's WarBirds Pages, featuring Hatchlings
krod.warbirds.org/ (http://krod.warbirds.org/)
Editor: The WarBirds Book
www.nitro.co.za/wb-book/ (http://www.nitro.co.za/wb-book/)
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Hi Superfly,
I also didn't mean any disrespect to any of the brave pilots of WWII. I'm just trying to have some fun man
I think we all realise that - <salute> and thanks for the change (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
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It wasn't meant as a flame superfly... more of a suggestion.
Paint the aircraft in the colours of the people that made their name in it or performed great deeds... Hartmann , Galland, "pips" Priller, "Sailor" Malan, Bader, Don Gentile, George Beurling... etc etc. It was a suggestion thats all... not a flame (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Regards
Daren
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Beaz
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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What do you think about using No. 64 Squadron markings? We're not sure as to whether or not No 64 Sqn flew Spit IXe's.
I had a talk with Pyro, and part of the problem is that the Spitfire in AH represents both the IXe and the IXb/IXc. The ordnance system allows you to choose between wing configurations. If anyone knows of a squadron that flew both the IXb and IXe with that paint scheme, we can use that if No 64 didn't.
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"
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How soon do you need an answer, Superfly?
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Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
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would be nice to see a skull and crossbones
on the nose of the Hog...assuming we get
the Hog
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Spinny, VF-17
8X
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There is no rush. I just need some solid references.
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"
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Oooh!... good question. Short answer is I don't know. There were many RAF squadrons that flew a mixture of different wing types... Douglas Bader of 242 squadron flew a Spit V with an A wing .303 equiped aircraft while most of his comrades flew the cannon armed version... B wing I guess... I'll have to delve deeper and do a bit of solid research.
Regards
Daren
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Beaz
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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<punt>
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Well since you've asked I do have a tip for you :-) Might not be an exactly "British" squadron but it's certainly RAF. And don't worry about Topcat or Beaz, I'll bully them until they give in, so they won't give you any problem if you choose this one :-)
Here goes:
310th Squadron RAF (NN-)
flew (leaving out Hurri I, and IIB):
Spitfire Mk.IIA oct41/dec41
Spitfire Mk.VB nov41/mar44
Spitfire Mk.VC jul42/mar44
Spitfire HF.Mk.VI jul43/sep43
(the high altitude variant)
Spitfire LF.Mk.IXC jan44/jun44
(unoficially "Mk.IXB", e.g. Merlin66/C wing)
Spitfire LF.Mk.IXE jun44/jul44
Spitfire F.Mk.IXC jul44
(unoficially "Mk.IXA", e.g. Merlin61,63/C wing)
Spitfire Mk.VB jul44/sep44
Spitfire F.Mk.IX aug44/aug45
Spitfire LF.Mk.IXE since aug45
alternatively 312th RAF (DU-) (again leaving out Hurri Mk.I/IIB)
Spitfire Mk.IIA oct41/dec41
Spitfire Mk.IIB nov41/jan42
Spitfire Mk.VB dec41/feb42
Spitfire Mk.VC aug42/feb44
Spitfire LF.Mk.IXC jan44/jul44
(unoficially "Mk.IXB", e.g. Merlin66/C wing)
Spitfire LF.Mk.IXE jun44/jul44
Spitfire HF.Mk.IX jul44/oct44
(Merlin70,C wing high alt version)
Spitfire F.Mk.IXC oct44/aug45
Spitfire LF.Mk.IXE since aug45
either of these two squads represent almost all the Spit IX variants in production. I can provide several paint schemes for the different versions, including photos.
You asked for it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Czech 6!
Jakub
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Jakub "czech-" Uchytil
249th Squadron RAF "Gold Coast" (http://249raf.warbirds.org)
Tangmere Wing
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Sorry for posting this twice, the UBB confused me. Good ole newsgroups (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by czech- (edited 08-10-1999).]
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I know your pain topcat. I for one have NEVER seen correct colors/markings for Luftwaffe aircraft in any flight sim. EAW had some decent colors...but the crosses were wrong..especially on the Me109e4 which displayed the white-outline-only crosses on the wings which weren't used until mid war. Fighter Sqadron didn't have any camoflage at all on the top wings of the Fw190 (but they DID use that cool spiral thingy on the spinner and you could see it turn! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
Aces Over Europe and Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe.....well I guess theres only so much you can do with 16? bit colors (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
WB is about the closest to "correct" I've ever seen in a flight sim concerning Luftwaffe colors. I'm really crossing my fingers hoping you guys at HTC do a great job. I've only seen the one pic and it looks pretty good so far (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm sure some of you guys will say that the appearence doesn't mean much and that its the flight model that counts. Thats probably true, however, in my mind it won't FEEL like aircraft if it doesn't LOOK like the aircraft
Ok that was pretty long winded of me so I'll shut the hell up now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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333rd Red Dawgs
JG 5 Eismeer
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Hi czech-
I don't have a problem with a Polish RAF squadron markings being put on the aircraft. After all, RAF is RAF, and the Polish (and other national squadrons) also had pilots from other nationalities too. The squadrons had a proud history, and deserve recognition. Still searching for others, too.
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Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing
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Well, Topcat, sorry to correct you here, but these are both Czechoslovak squadrons. You know, the Poles weren't the only ones fighting for the RAF during WW2. I guess your answer gives credit to the 303rd sqdn in WarBirds, I too would love to form a CZ squad but I would be the only pilot there, so (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
No idea how many Polish squads there were (5?), but in fact there were 2 Czech squadrons already participating in the Battle of Britain (coincidentally just 310 and 312 mentioned in my previous post), with a third one being formed later (313) which together eventually formed the Czechoslovak Fighter Wing. Not accidentally two out of the first 6 top aces in the battle of France were Czech pilots, too :-)
There was also the 311th Bomber squadron, flying Wellies most of the war, several months proclaimed the best RAF bomb squad.
I have nothing against the Poles, either, but I'd for some strange reasons prefer one of these two :-) Keep searching, but I have the materials ready upon request.
Czech 6!
Jakub
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Jakub "czech-" Uchytil
249th Squadron RAF "Gold Coast" (http://249raf.warbirds.org)
Tangmere Wing
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I can fix this whole plane painting problem. Let the user paint their own planes!!!!!
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Ding Hao !
That was that 51B that had the guns jammed and scared off the mighty LW with 1 0.50
Ex-AVG guy....name is on the tip of my tounge...monosyllabic last name...can't quite remember.
JHL
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I have to say that letting people design their own planes is a horrible idea. For one I don't think it's feasible from a programing point of view. Secondly, while most of us would paint ours in a historical manner, there are those who wouldn't. And the first time I see any game that lets people fly or even gives people the chance to fly pink planes, I quit that game. I'm also sure that the staff of AH has better things to do than approve everyone's paintjob (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
On having squads put stripes on their planes. I don't like this idea either. Once again I don't think you can program it. If you have 30 planes and 70 squads....how many possible planes is that? I'm not going to download every squad's stripes which defeats the purpose. In WB we can already tell who is in OUR OWN squad with the .hls feature.
Once again, the best thing to do is give each plane 2 or 3 skins. This would mean one download from the site, only a tad longer. AH could control what skins we would see. The planes would still look historical and this is the most important thing.
Plus, think about this (going off the number of planes in WB (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif): 3 skins for the P-51B and 3 for the D model. 3 skins for each of the Spits and Hurris. 3 skins for the Me-109's. This means that a total of 6 P-51, 20 RAF, and 15 JG squads would have the chance to fly a plane with their squads colors on them!!!! Isn't this what we are really after? Consider: P-51D's in the colors of the 350th FS, 487th FS, and the 35th FG (Pacific Theatre). The B models could represent the 4th FG (Don Gentille Fourthmen?), 357th FG, and the 23rd FG (the ex-A.V.G/Flying Tigers). And this is just the P-51! How about RAF Warhawks, VVS Aircobras, RAAF Corsairs...the list is endless. Almost every squad in the books could fly THEIR plane at some time during the RPS. Not to mention how much better it would make it for historical scenarios.
IMHO, giving us a couple of different skins would make things sssoooo much more appealing. Let AH offer the skins in seperate downloads. Give out one skin (their choice) per plane for the main download. Then if my squad's plane isn't part of that, but is offered, I can download it. This way if someone doesn't want 3 F4U's but does want 4 Spitfires, they can have it.
Wow! What a great idea I just had....(g,d,r) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, JHL (my initials are JLH hehe) the pilot you're thinking of is Major James Howard. He had 8.5 victories with the Flying Tigers and 6 with the 354th FG. He was a Medal of Honor winner.
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487th F.S. "Lil' Bastards"
Flying Tigers
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Hi Czech,
Duh! Sorry, of course they were both Czech squadrons. My first reply still stands though - RAF is RAF, and so any of these squadrons would be OK by me. Do you know of any others which meet the criteria of both the 'b' and the 'e' variants? If so, IMO you should send the list to Superfly and let him make his own decision.
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Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels
Tangmere Wing