Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKIron on March 03, 2003, 10:22:32 PM
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Those idiots.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/03/nkorea.intercept/index.html
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The previous interception occurred in 1969, when a North Korean fighter shot down a U.S. EC-121 reconnaissance aircraft over the Sea of Japan, killing more than 30 U.S. airmen, according to a Pentagon official.
Gwaddamn!
Boy.. some cool heads playin this game, no doubt. I sure wouldn't wanna be on the RC135, knowin the Korean track record in intercepts. Betcha the next time they sortie a RC135 there will be some F15's in the CLOSE neighborhood... unlike this time where there were at least two 20 miles back all ready to avenge the loss of the RC135.
Again.. those boy's on the 135 must feel a helluva lot like the goat tehered for the lion.
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Yea I saw that. Kind of strikes home with me because the RC-135 that was being shadowed belongs to one of the RJ units to which the HQ's I work at manages. I know some of those people.
I will say though that this type of thing is more common than you may or may not realize. I am kind of skeptical of that 1969 date. When I was in ROK in 89, we scrambled F-15's fairly regularly. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to minimize the incident. I am just saying that we have been playing these games with thew NK's for years. Ever here of the exercise Team Spirit? This was a US based excercise that was staged in ROK for years. A huge show of force right on the DMZ. We were basically just daring them to do something:D. AS a concession, we stopped doing Team Spirit some time in the mid 90's. I don't remem ber what we got out of the deal. Probably closed that nuclear reactor:)
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We'll see how nuts they are when and if the war starts. If it's not BS, they be over the DMZ the next day.
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With a nuclear armed NK I wouldnt even diddly with it if I was the CIC. At the first hostile event I would launch a decisive nuclear attack against the NK military.
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I am just saying that we have been playing these games with the NK's for years.
Yah.. I'd think so.. my brother tells me of the Bear intercepts the Navy had to deal with in the Tonkin Gulf.. another guy I know of had similar experiences flyin the ELINT missions outta alaska.. difference is the ROE for those 'games' and this one. Sounds like this ain't gonna be a 'game' much longer. The lions gonna take a bite outta the goat, methinks.
How in hell we gonna prevent the loss of a RC135 and 15-20 guys unless we shoot first?
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do we ever escort these damn things anymore?
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Originally posted by Hangtime
How in hell we gonna prevent the loss of a RC135 and 15-20 guys unless we shoot first?
Same way we did it when I flew them.
You never let them get that close when unescorted. It's easily doable, trust me.
When escorted, you really need two flights of four to do it right. The Libyans got shots off at an RC escorted by only one flight.... although in true Libyan fashion they fired outside their missile parameters. Way outside.
Oh, and it'll be more than 20 guys, by at least 50%.
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Ouch.. ok.. help me thru this cause i just came to what i hope is a wrong conclusion.
1. In order to keep the other team outta PK range of their armaments on the 135, the 135 has to strart egress from the op area with enough lead time to preven the intercept..
or..
2. the 135 stays in the op area, and escort fighters intercept the other teams planes well outside PK.
in option 1 it would appear that either there's sea based long range radar in support or an AWACS is lurking about.. somebodys gotta cue the RC135 it's time to bolt. Regardless.. the other team gets a MA.. we're outta there.
Q.. in option 2.. if the other team does not turn away when the eagles paint him with a radar target lock, what; short of a weapons release, would force the other team to turn around?
or is it 3. Combo of both 1 and 2?
Q: Where would you surmise the eagles were when this intercept in the press occured?
(edit: Yes.. I guess I am asking if you think our 30 guys were laid out in the grass with a tether round their necks.)
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Toad,
Brain fart here.
What is the RC135 again? Is it the new jstars or an elint platform?
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i think elint was the ravens job.. RC135 is i think a passive evesdropper in that it just listens in on everything electronic
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Originally posted by Maverick
Toad,
Brain fart here.
What is the RC135 again? Is it the new jstars or an elint platform?
Call it a spy plane
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
Call it a spy plane
Regards Blitz
Exactly blitz. We got people tring to kill us. My dad was a "spy plane" guy in the 50's and 60's. Thank God there are men and women with the courage to do it.
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RC's, depending on model, are elint, siging and photint capable. I think every model is elint/sigint capable but only a couple of the aircraft have sophisticated photint. And there's probably some new stuff that I don't know about. JSTARS is a different program. Having an RC around when a JSTARS is in the area is a definite plus, however.
Hang, your number one is correct. That's basically how we did it back in the old days. And, given the range of fighters and the capabilities of the RC it is doable in almost every case.
The escort summary is fairly accurate as well. Like I said though, you really need two flights to CAP it right and figure the RC will be out there doing its thing 8+ hours.... takes a lot of fighter/tanker support to do it right. So mostly they fly uncapped... or we did anyway. The present NK situation would dictate otherwise I think.
The Eagles were probably too far away. That was usually the case. :D
Suffice it to say that we had Tactical Doctrine that specifically addressed the threat from the NK. To my knowledge while that TD was in effect, no NK aircraft ever got within range on any RC.
I don't think they were doing the "tetherd goat" act. The cost on an RC platform makes risking one prohibitive. They are a very highly classed "national resource" and as such, special precautions are taken with them wherever they are, on the ground or in the air.
I suspect there was a screw up somewhere or that TD has changed. Probably TD has changed.. otherwise the NK's wouldn't have been able to shadow them for 20 minutes.
I find it VERY interesting that it was the S model RC, Cobra Ball, that was intercepted. That airplane has some specific capabilities within the RC fleet that apply directly to what's happening in NK.
Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmm
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they just following the in the chinks foosteps ....
hell, they didn't even collide with this one....
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Originally posted by Apache
Exactly blitz. We got people tring to kill us. My dad was a "spy plane" guy in the 50's and 60's. Thank God there are men and women with the courage to do it.
Agreed with your last sentence Apache but at the moment we need to keep cool before things run outa hand.
imho
Regards Blitz
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Originally posted by blitz
Agreed with your last sentence Apache but at the moment we need to keep cool before things run outa hand.
imho
Regards Blitz
blitz, my old friend, I agree. We should "keep cool". Having said that, in my law enforcement days, when we were on the tail of a "bad guy", we didn't go to the local donut shop and wonder what he was doing...we watched (surveiled) him so that we knew what he was doing.
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Originally posted by Apache
blitz, my old friend, I agree. We should "keep cool". Having said that, in my law enforcement days, when we were on the tail of a "bad guy", we didn't go to the local donut shop and wonder what he was doing...we watched (surveiled) him so that we knew what he was doing.
Hope that works here too.
Blitz
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I think it probably works much better when the "bad guys" KNOW they are being watched, don't you?
That's what flying reconnaissance platforms is all about. The "bad guys" KNOW they are being watched. So, it tends to help them refrain from doing "bad things". However, if they decide to go ahead and do "bad things" anyway, at least you know it as soon as possible.
Throughout the Cold War both sides used reconnaissance platforms to watch the other side and both sides knew it was going on. Helps to keep the peace.
Apache, was your Dad 55SRW? RB-47's?
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http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/cobra_ball.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/cobra_ball.htm
as toad said, hmmmm.
former AWACS here.