Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: brady on March 05, 2003, 03:04:17 AM
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This Friday Were are Very Happy ! to bring to you the New and Improved Slot Map 10Bears headed up an elite map making team of deadicated CM Terain experts in the colabrative effort to compleatly rework the old Slot map. Ramzey and Dux both Worked long and hard to make a ton of New Skins all represent ing planes that Were In theater at the time the epic strugle for Guadalcanal was taking place.
New Features include:
Shore Batrires!
Manable AA guns
Custom Airfields that LOOK like Jungle airstrips
New TF configurations and A Zuikaku CV skin the way she realy looked.
More Bases
More and much Better GV spawns.
New Clipboard map by Dux
NC 17 rating
Custon skins for:
A6M2, Kate, Val, Tabby, Ki 67, JU 88, F4F-4 ,TBM, SBD, Boston III, P40E, F4U-1a (the later 3: Austrailian, and New Zeland Collors respectivaly), Buildings and SB reskined, All GV's Junglified, pluss more...
Now this was not just done for the CT, all this hard loving was done for a wounderfull new Event being put on by the CM's Operation Watchtower, Please see the link bellow:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mikebowman/Guad/Guad-web.htm
The set up in the CT will feature the following plane set:
Allied:
F4F-4
SBD
TBM
Boston III
P40E
F4U-1a
The M's and Both LVT's
Tabby
Japanese:
A6M2
Kate
Val
Ki 67
Ki 61
JU 88
Tabby
The M's and Both LVT's
Now the F4U-1a will be based at only 1 or two rear fields do to it's uberness, to counter this the Japanese will get the Tony at fields boarding these if they take them, like wise the Tony will be available at the rear Japanese bases(one or two). The reasion for this is that I want to inlude these planes but not have them domnate the set up, their fore we can all spend most of our time reliving the battles from Aug to Dec 42 ( and a little later) with the Wildcat and the Zero over the slot as the primary fighters.
The JU 88 is included only at three bases A15 A11 and A9 the reasion for this is that it is being used in the Event and the CM's wanted to do some testing of it, it's vulnerabality offset's it's A hsitorical bombload so that coupled with it being limited should not cause a balance issue.
LVT's will be enabled on the DD and CA fleats Not the CV fleats.
Areana setings will be:
CT Norms except: (ack .7 is normal CT seting)
Fuel Burn 1.8
Down time's:
Hangers 15min
Ack 30min
Field objects 30min
Fleat respawn 10min
New Zero Skin By Ramzey:
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Nice!
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A6M2 is a freakin bore against the P-40, against the F4F it's a death trap. Just my 2 cents. Add A6M5 or your not going to have any Japanese players. Guys scream and scream about ballance . The F4F is the most uber plane in AH. The PTO's just plain suck for the Japs if you leave them with the A6M2. And everybody and their mother will be flying the F4F. Yes I know the A6m5 is too much plane for the time period, but there is no A6M3. I know you added the Ki-61, and F4U at rear bases, thats not going to help anything it's going to be F4F city, and nothing to counter it with.
Yeah yeah I know whaa whaa whaa!:D
I wish the hell they leave the PTO out until the F4F was ubered down, and some more damn jap fighters come out. The The A6M2 was being replaced as early as the battle of midway. Nice work on the skin it will look very nice as it's falling out of the sky as a fireball.
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Geez, I really appreciate all the hard work you guys put in on the maps and stuff! I don't doubt it was a lot of hard work.
Its too bad there's not a better plane balance. The A6M2 is likely to have its hands full with just the F4F-4. The F4F/P-40E combo is a one-two punch against the A6M2. Plus, the Japanese are going to be outnumbered, probably badly.
The A6M5 may be a bit much, but I hope you consider adding it to address some of the play balance problems this setup is going to have. It might be needed to bolster the IJN and help the outcome be more realistic...
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how dare you question the emperor!!
you know what to do!
as long as them nasty clouds are gone....
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Yes Shane I know what to do, and once I make the cut. I know I can count on you to behead me!:D
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Originally posted by Löwe
Yes Shane I know what to do, and once I make the cut. I know I can count on you to behead me!:D
that's only available to the men.
;)
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Don't you think the Ki-61 evens the plane balance out a bit? It's a pretty nice fighter against all the allieds got in this setup, so who would wanna fly A6M anyways? ;)
Besides the A6M2 is still a rather nice ride against the F4F and P40 but that's just imho.
P.S.: Löwe can you explain me stupid how the F4F can be a death trap for the A6M2? Just in 1 on 1 I mean...
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Originally posted by Shane
that's only available to the men.
;)
LOL Shane "Touche"!
Geesy how does the Ki-61 at rear bases even it out? You got F4Us to counter the KI-61. As for the A6M2 vs the F4F. The F4F will best the A6m2 in speed, and turns so well your head will spin. The effective cannon rounds on the A6M2 are very low, plus you have to get close to make them count. While your cutting the distance another F4F will saddle up, and blow you away with its 50 cals, that can reach out and wreck our day. Give the A6M2 a dirty look and it catches fire. Add to the fact the F4F has a very liberal damage model, and it's a long week of flying A6M2's. A6m2s vs P-40Bs, and Hurri I's is bad enough. The a6m2 vs P-40Es, and F4Fs is B.S. in my opinon, then again it's my opinon. Not yours:)
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cool looks like a good set up I dont mind flying a6m2's against f4f's but p40e why not use the p40b any way we will just have to make do with what we got.
BTW Reschke looking forward to meeting VF 17 again in the skies.:)
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I think Lowe means the A6M2 is a deathtrap because the F4F-4 is modelled so optimisticly. It seems to turn almost as well as the A6M2, and its durability is so high it can take nearly all the ammo a Zeke carries to bring down a single F4F.
The patient Zeke driver who presses home the attack and stays in the saddle long enough to get the kill, finds himself whacked by 3-4 of the Wildcat's buddies.
P-40Es and F4Fs fight the Zeke with different styles - the P-40E stays fast and BnZs while the F4F can turnfight the Zero. Fill the airspace with these two very different threats and any Zeke will have his hands full.
You're right, the Ki.61 is more than a match for either, however it sounds like it will be placed out of reach unless the Allies really roll up the territory (which is very possible).
The A6M3 would be a marginal improvement over the A6M2. Speed and climb performance were nearly the same, but the A6M3 had faster firing cannon, with more ammo carried. Range was reduced compared to the M2 but that's not an issue in AH. Early A6M3's had clipped wingtips, and the shorter wingspan resulted in a faster roll rate, though I don't have specs.
Moot point though - no new planes in AH for months to come, and even then it seems unlikely they would be Japanese models.
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Originally posted by oboe
You're right, the Ki.61 is more than a match for either, however it sounds like it will be placed out of reach unless the Allies really roll up the territory (which is very possible).
i find the p40e can take on a ki61 on fairly even terms.
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by oboe
The patient Zeke driver who presses home the attack and stays in the saddle long enough to get the kill, finds himself whacked by 3-4 of the Wildcat's buddies.
And there is the problem u cannot be patient when flying a zero u get in get hits and get out might not always get the kill but u live to fight again.
If cannot close to with in 200 in the first few seconds of saddeling up on one six then I am off I takes too long to close and like you said there will be another f4f trying to saddle your six.
But like in any air combat keep your enemy below you and with a zero atleast you do have a climb advantage you should win just about every time
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You guys keep this up. Your making AH better than the guys the designed the damned thing WTG~!
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I don't doubt you can do well in a P-40E against a Ki.61, Shane!
You're probably right- its a closer match than I said. Still, the Ki.61 has a speed, climb rate, and firepower advantage with those twin nose-mounted 20mms (until you run out of ammo, that is).
Come to think of it, you have to be pretty careful in a Ki.61 vs an F4F, too. I'd still rather be in the Ki.61 though.
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Well I'd also prefer to finish off F4F's with hammerheads rather than long E dragging turnfights. Of course you need alt advantage for that but that shouldn't be that much of a problem since the A6M2 should be climbing better than the F4F doesn't it? As already said: keep your enemies below you and you won't have to worry no matter what crate you're flying. ;)
Still think this sounds like a pretty nice setup and am looking forward to fly for the poor japanese. :D
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Originally posted by Löwe
A6M2 is a freakin bore against the P-40, against the F4F it's a death trap. Just my 2 cents. Add A6M5 or your not going to have any Japanese players.
Heh heh, Lowe, you usually don't have many Japanese players no matter what the match is. A6M5s will dominate the allies in this setup. I kind of enjoy the A6M2 against these planes (well, don't know about the Corsair, hope there aren't too many of them around).
Your better point, though, is that numbers are going to make all the difference. A bunch of zekes will overwhelm a fewer number of wildcats, and vice versa. Given what we've seen in the CT over the past week or two, I have a suspicion that it will be a Real Challenge to fly for the Emperor.
- oldman (sending lock of hair to his loved ones, writing last Haiku)
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Aw well Oldman, guess I'll just have to guzzle some saki, and do the Emporers bidding in one of his paper airplanes.;) The A6M2 does have people that love it, but I'll be damned if I can figure out why. The a6m5 on the other hand, I love that plane.
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Great looking setup, I will write my death Hiku.
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WTG, key! If any squad can do it, your guys can. :)
Originally posted by keyapaha
cool looks like a good set up I dont mind flying a6m2's against f4f's but p40e why not use the p40b any way we will just have to make do with what we got.
BTW Reschke looking forward to meeting VF 17 again in the skies.:)
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you forgot the 109 f :)
cool looking skin
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I don't mind going up against either the f4f or P40e coalt one v. one. It's having to deal with both of these planes in the same furball that sux.
Will fly for the emperor, may he live forever, anyway.
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Najdorf,
I see your numbers are coming along nicely I knew it would take long for ya to get the hang of AH.we got our work cut out for us this week in the CT.
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One thing I spaced when Writing this late last night is that the P40E is not going to be widley available either.
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rgr that
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Originally posted by Löwe
LOL Shane "Touche"!
As for the A6M2 vs the F4F. The F4F will best the A6m2 in speed, and turns so well your head will spin. The effective cannon rounds on the A6M2 are very low, plus you have to get close to make them count. While your cutting the distance another F4F will saddle up, and blow you away with its 50 cals, that can reach out and wreck our day. Give the A6M2 a dirty look and it catches fire. Add to the fact the F4F has a very liberal damage model, and it's a long week of flying A6M2's. A6m2s vs P-40Bs, and Hurri I's is bad enough. The a6m2 vs P-40Es, and F4Fs is B.S. in my opinon, then again it's my opinon. Not yours:)
Ah, If I want to kill Wildcats, I take the A6M2. It will dominate the F4F-4 in low-speed turnfights. Moreover, the F4F-4 is SLOWER than the A6M2 at all altitudes above 5k. Not only that, but the F4F-4 is a very slow climber.
As to the damage model, Grumman built the Wildcat like a brick toejamhouse. It weighs nearly twice that of the Zero, and is a smaller fighter. It could suck up hits that would kill 5 Zeros. Japanese pilots were in awe of the Wildcat's ability to shrug off gunfire.
I have no doubts that the A6M2 will hold its own with the Wildcat. On the other hand, the P-40E, if flown to its strengths, is almost untouchable by the Zero.
I think that there will be plenty of people willing to fly Japanese.
My regards,
Widewing
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The F4F4 seems to be far to manuverable compared to what I read about it.
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Wildcats turn, turn, turn
Mean Tigersharks Boom and Zoom
Zeros Brightly Burn
eskimosan
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Wildcats turn, turn, turn
Mean Tigersharks Boom and Zoom
Zeros Brightly Burn
You should be a poet. :p
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here we go again...same toejam different week...flight model disputes again that is.......:rolleyes:
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Parachutes are waaaaaaay overmodeled. Errrr ... undermodeled. No wait ....
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Nice one eskimo.:)
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I have to agree with the above Brady - you can put spots on it all you want but it is still a A6M2. :(
Also that the F4F-4 Wildcat is WAY too overmodeled. It seems to have more the FM of it's younger brother the FM-2.
It isn't the damage model it is the manuverability of the a/c. I have put alot of hours in the ZERO vs. the Wildcat and there is just no way it should do some of the moves it does. It just does not add up to the historical performance of the a/c.
Marine Ace Joseph Foss (one of the best Wildcat pilots there ever was) said "There was no way to keep a Zero off the tail of a Wildcat". "When you got one on your tail all you could do was put your feet up on the dash and ride it out till your wingman cleared you or he ran out of ammunition". (The F4F-4's pilot seat armor only came down to calf length was the reason for pulling your feet up.)
The THATCH WEAVE was especially developed by USN pilots for the exact reason that you couldn't keep a Zero off the tail of a Wildcat. The only way to beat it was 2 vs. 1 tactics.
I can pile you up a mountain of historical statistics why the AH F4F-4 is just a little too good. What beat the ZERO's is numbers.
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The following is the report of a Zero 21 flown aganst an F4F-4 in the states, the Zero was recovered from Akutan Island in the Alutions and then repaired and sent to to San Diego whear the tests were conducted in Augast of 1942.
p.27 Zero Fighter by Robert C. Mikesh
" The Zero was supiour to the F4F-4 in speed and climb at all altitudes above 1,000 ft, and was superior in service ceiling and range. Close to sea level, with the F4F-4 in neutrail blower, the two planes were equil in leval speed. In a dive, the two planes were equil with the exception that the Zeros engine cut out in in pushovers. There was no comparison between the turning circles of the two aircraft due to the relative wing loadings and resultant low staling speed of the Zero. In view of the foregoing, the F4F-4 type in combat with the Zero was basicaly dependent on mutual support, internal protection, and pull-outs or turns at high speeds where minimum radius is limited by structural or physiological effects of acceleration (assuming that the allowable acceleration on the F4F is greater than that of the Zero.) Howeaver, advantage should be taken where possible, of the superiority of the F4F in pushovers and rolls a high spped, or any combination of the two."
Andi I do personaly agree with your openion of the Wildcat, howeaver from what I have heard HTC does not take anicdotal evidance into account for example the official flight test report sighted above would be inamisable or so I have been lead to beleave I hate to make blanket statements like that since they are not fair but when the shoe fit's...
The above passage is from this thread:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79044&highlight=zero+vs+F4F4
Note F4UDOA's coments through the thread they are very "ilumanating".
The plane set is intended to be primarly the Wildcat vs the A6M2, with buitl in Checks at either end of the pendilum that is the front line Namely the F4U-1a and the Tony so if the Wildcat does domanate we will see the Tony Slaping it back as the front move's toward Buka like wise if it swings the other way the F4U-1a will change it back. Of course this presuposes that the MIlk men have the week off and all things are even:)
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I wouldn't call comments by Major Joseph Foss & Cmdr. Jimmy Thatch - "anicdotal evidence." They probably know more about the Zero and it's strength's and weaknesses vs. the Wildcat than HTC ever will.
Then again HTC always seems to have a high opinion of "their" facts. :rolleyes:
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Yeah ... I'd go with Foss and Thatch's word.
Still ... keep my F4U bases outa enemy hands. :D
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Well Andi I would not either, nor would I refer to an oficial flight test that way as evidanced above, funny thig is HTC gives the wildcat the advantage whear 90% of all combat in AH takes place at or bellow 5 K , when the reality of it acording to the test is quiet different. In AH the Wildcat is beter under 5k and 18mph faster on the deck, acording to the test 1k was the threshold of the preformace diferance and they were equil on the deck. But this was hashed out to no aparent avail, since it does not qualify for admisable evidance.
You could fery that F4U-1a Arlo if you were hard up:), probaly have better luck than I did trying to fery a Komet on Sabre Rhine set up:)
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Oh ... I'm sure it will be ferried. Unless, of course, the enemy manages to move up. :eek:
Us Corsair types will gladly support the brave and intrepid Wildcatters on the front lines ... just keep those front lines moving ... <- thataway. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Oh ... I'm sure it will be ferried. Unless, of course, the enemy manages to move up. :eek:
Us Corsair types will gladly support the brave and intrepid Wildcatters on the front lines ... just keep those front lines moving ... <- thataway. ;)
Oh Great VF-27, and the Jolly Rogers!!!! AHHHHHHHHH, I need more saki!!! :eek:
Hey Oboe , Hey 13th Sentai, you up for this?
: "Duty is as heavy as a mountain. While death is a light as a feather."
Oughta be fun no matter , at least I can light my cigars with my A2M2:D
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Wildcats turn, turn, turn
Mean Tigersharks Boom and Zoom
Zeros Brightly Burn
eskimosan
He's a poet,
But don't know it.
His feet show it;
They're Longfellows
Author unknown
Sabre
CT Staff
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hey guys who whine about the Zero. Your arguments are always based on "by the time you saddle up on a Wildcat enough to hurt him, his buddy is ripping you to pieces." Uhmm, that's exactly how they did it back then. They couldn't take a Zeke 1 v 1 in a turn fight with a Wildcat. They blew through for one pass and kept on going. Sticking around without help was suicide. So they started flying in tandem and Thach came up with his weave idea. They 2 v 1'd a Zeke and knocked it down, moved onto the next one. This is exactly what you're saying is why the Zero inferior to the Wildcat! The fact it's you vs more than 1 'Cat or 'Hawk.
1 v 1 in AH, and only 1 v 1. How many of you have shaken a A6M2 off your 6 in a F4F-4 without diving and outrunning it low?
Yeah, the F4F is a tank, cuz that's what it was in real life. Smacking the fuselage of the 'Cat with the old Type 99 I 20 mm ain't gonna do much good. Best bet is to hit wings or stabs and hope the 20 mm goes through a support spar. :) I've downed 5 'Cats in a snapshot in a A6M2 before, so the ammo load is more than enough if you're lucky.
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Btw the F4F had a 3-2 kill-death ratio vs the A6M2 in 1942.
In AH the F4F is slower to climb and does not turn as well, as in real life.
Speed data:http://www.214th.com/ww2/usa/f4f/f4f.pdf Shows the AH #s are correct at sea level.
Performance data in AH: http://www.badz.pwp.blueyonder.co.u.../pdf/Midway.pdf shows the F4F does not turn nearly as well as the A6M2.
As for Thach and Foss, neither one of them has reveiwed the FM data in AH that I know of.
The A6M series was not a superplane, and finding small errors in the FM data does not prove anything. There is no ac in AH that matches all its "published" #s, not a single one.
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"In AH the F4F is slower to climb and does not turn as well, as in real life."
I think most would find that statement a bit funny.
"Speed data:http://www.214th.com/ww2/usa/f4f/f4f.pdf Shows the AH #s are correct at sea level."
This is the very data that is in sharp contrast to the flighttest data shown above and that in the abovementioned post was shown to be inconclusive since various sources seam to be contradactiory or sighting preformance for models other than the F4F-4 as the above tread shows if you read it through.
"Performance data in AH: http://www.badz.pwp.blueyonder.co.u.../pdf/Midway.pdf shows the F4F does not turn nearly as well as the A6M2."
That data in the PDF shows the very info that is in dispute in the formentioned thread, it also shows data that is not based on AH aircraft preformance.
"As for Thach and Foss, neither one of them has reveiwed the FM data in AH that I know of."
Well they actualy faught the Zero and I should think their coments regarding how it preformed would be of interest.
"The A6M series was not a superplane, and finding small errors in the FM data does not prove anything. There is no ac in AH that matches all its "published" #s, not a single one."
It does prove imo that F4F-4 is Optimasticaly modeled in AH in terms of is prefomnace bellow 5K and in it's handeling which by most acounts is better than it was in real life. Shure prety much anyone can find somthing to squeak about when it comes to how a certain plane preformes, the issue hear is it is realy glaring when we look at the Wildcat and A6M2, in this match up those little diferances are creating a preception of preformance in spead and handeling which is in sharp contrast to History.
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You know Nifty, speaking the truth ain't gonna make you popular around this crowd. :D
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I guess we can all pick what data to ignore eh? You seem to feel that your quote from the flight test in your post, which btw is rather vague and does not give exact speeds or turn rates is somehow much more reliable than the other data posted, which does give exact speeds at sea level. Just not the #s you wanted to see.
The rest of the so called evidence is anecdotal "I dont beleive xyz because it doesnt feel right".
Its a free country, grind what axes you want to grind.
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I'm heating up some extra sake. We're going to need it.
Where are those blasted A6M3 shipments? If we could get our A6M3s we'd push the Yankees back to their precious Corsairs with haste.
(See signature for death haiku)
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Well Squire if you read through the post you will see whear the evidance that you quote is misleading, and after checking those scans aganst some of my refrence sources which I posted it is still misleading. All I am saying is that acording to what I have read the Wildcat in AH is "optimasticaly" modled and preforms better than it should bellow 5K and Handels better than one might expect based on anidatoal evidance and on the tests.
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Sakai said he got most of his kills with 7mm and the claim that the f4f had a 3/2 k/d vrs the a6m2 has been proven false. The most exceptable number now is 1 to 1 but that is questioned.
The reason so many view the f4f as having better performance is because most try to fly the a6m2 like a spit. Fast dives and hard breaks at speed above 275. Thats the complete wrong way to fight in an a6m2. Its an enegry fighter and you need to manage your e through out the fight. Not just to avoid getting to slow but keeping your speed at the point where you have optimum manuverability.
Ideally you would want your a6m2s to come in no more then 2 - 3k above then enemy and use short sprint dives when making a guns pass. You need "trick" the f4fs into a turn fight. You can use your climb and slighhtly better speed to conserve your energy.
You must never dive to pursue an enemy or dive to escape. Above 300 the a6m2 is a brick and the f4f can not only outroll you but out turn you in general.
The problem I have with the a6m2 f4f matchup in ah is the weak guns on the a6m2 and the spray n pray factor of the f4f, which is just like every other 50 cal armed plane in ah.
Entering a fight with an f4f I am confident I can out fly him. But the f4f is overly tough and/or the a6m2 cannon are overly weak. I have run up kills streaks as high as 8 in the a6m2 but thats not evidence of anything.
In a 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 the weak guns dont matter that much because when you saddle up and you have time to get kills. What happens in a multi-bogie enviroment is you rarely ever get enough time in the gun site to get properly aimed hits. Pilot kills, horizontal areas like the wings and elevators and the best places to bring down an f4f. But the average player doesnt have the gunnery skills to get these areas sited while trying to stay saddled up and track the other nmes around him.
Axioms when flying the a6m2
1. Manage your energy and speed carefully
2. Use your climb to escape when possible.
3. Never dive to escape/pursue an enemy
4. Conserve your ammo, fire the cannon and mg seperate
5. Target the horizontal areas and cockpit.
6. If you think you are close enough you arent, get in closer
7. Never assume you are out of gun range. If a bad guy is behind you he will spray and spray.
8. SA SA SA
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Originally posted by Batz
Axioms when flying the a6m2
1. Manage your energy and speed carefully
2. Use your climb to escape when possible.
3. Never dive to escape/pursue an enemy
4. Conserve your ammo, fire the cannon and mg seperate
5. Target the horizontal areas and cockpit.
6. If you think you are close enough you arent, get in closer
7. Never assume you are out of gun range. If a bad guy is behind you he will spray and spray.
8. SA SA SA
Thats exactly what I do, in fact I was actually surprised that I was the vertical e-fighter the first time I flew the a6m2 in CT vs f4f4 during the inital burma scenario a while back. :)
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there is no other 'non uber' plane I would want in a 2 on 1 situation than an a6m2.
Every time this comes up, you guys squeak and moan about it.
If you are flying low and slow in anything but an la7 you dont have a whole lot of hope against anything.
I know I will be flying the a6m2 in non squad times, so I look forward to flying with you cry babies.
Of course, I dont mind having 1 kill or 1 assist sorties as long as I stay alive. I know most other guys dont like that kind of flying so the zero is not for them.
Historically, few pilots had more the 5-10 kills in an entire tour of duty. Expecting the planes they flew to do more than that in 1 afternoon is pushing it dont you think?
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and climb
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ergRTC
where did you get the screenshot from, wheres that tool?
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Historically, few pilots had more the 5-10 kills in an entire tour of duty. Expecting the planes they flew to do more than that in 1 afternoon is pushing it dont you think?
As a rule their carriers wern't parked just off the shore of active enemy airfields either. Also, the pilots tended to be a little more concerned about their personal kill:death ratio than we are.
Do I do get, and agree with, the point you are attempting to make.
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You mean they were not score potatos?
That carrier parking is a major beef of mine too. I thought they were going to do something about the shorelines in the new slot. I havent been able to fly it yet, but I hope they have.
That is a great tool and you can find it here. Sometimes the image dissappears but all you need to do is scroll the page a little.
http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/index.htm
The climb and speed comps, are at the bottom of the page.
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Be aware that those java-based charts do not always reflect actual performance in AH, although they're close enough to be useful.
J_A_B
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All the bases have Shore Batries so CV parking wll not be a s rampant and their arer only 2 CV's one for each side.
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Batz, I agree that there is always "fudge room" in any historic k/d claims.
However, the IJN claims have been seen by historians as certainly no less questionable than the USN/USMC claims of the day.
In any case, the evidence is there that the F4Fs "gave as good as they got" in most encounters vs the A6M2, and it wasnt because the Zeros were outnumbered, because they were not.
Coral Sea, Midway, Wake, Guadacanal, the F4F units had plenty of opposition from CV and land based A6M2 units, not to mention the attack a/c.
If it was such a heavy useless POS tub, as some are keen to make it out, why wasnt it swept from the sky? Nobody seems to be able to answer that one.
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All the bases have Shore Batries so CV parking wll not be a s rampant and their arer only 2 CV's one for each side.
I do the "Dance of Joy." My coworkers look at me oddly.
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Crybabies??? I'll have you know I'm a Luftwhiner now!!
Erg you attitude is way over modeled....:D
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hehe lowe.
just got back from 2 zero sorties.
first sortie, way high p40e handed me my ass.
2nd sortie 2 f4fs down, died landing crippled zero
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I woulda landed that Zeke. Where's my Rebel Yell?:D
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Man, erg has a chart for everything!
(You guys do know that he makes them up in his basement don't you? We used to have him make them up for VF-27 all the time to win arguments.)
Fastest demographics in the WEST! ROFL! :D
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hehe andi. You should take alook at our new vf27 homepage in the making. Particularly the members page....
http://www.toad.net/~kjard/hellcats
make sure you use internet explorer otherwise the sound may not work.
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Originally posted by Squire
If it was such a heavy useless POS tub, as some are keen to make it out, why wasnt it swept from the sky? Nobody seems to be able to answer that one.
Well it may sound a bit harsh but I don't think that real life experiences doesn't really apply in AH (except maybe in FM, DM and Gunnery). The pilots back then had a completely different and more thorough training in both flying normaly and in air combat than most folks arround here probably got. In exchange we gotta learn from the mistakes we do since we don't actually die as real pilots did if they made a mistake. So very lucky and very cautious ones survived and were able to become aces (as Hartmann put it you had to just survive your first dogfights and you would just automatically become an ace "We either got an iron or wooden cross, nothing in between"). Once achieved that state they seemed quite invincible due to their superior experience in comparison to most other fighter pilots they encountered, those poor guys were then most likely not able to make any further experience since the ace actually killed them (or became POW).
So the big mass of fighter pilots back then had a lot of theoratical knowledge but very less practical experience how it actually would work. Additional most of the time they had their mind more occupied with keeping the formation, managing the engine, estimate the type and range to a plane they saw just by the shape and size of the sometimes vague form of the plane they saw in the sky (the visual conditions of AH are also quite rare in real life theaters like the ETO, dunno about the PTO there though) and a lot of other real flying stuff. Things that you don't have to take into account in AH (thanks to simplified engine management, trim help systems and hawkeye's icons ;) ), now not mentioning the G-forces and how different it actually is to keep the orientation if the world really is turning arround you that fast in all those maneuvers. :D On the other hand we sim aces got a heck of alot more first hand dogfight experience than any fighter pilot of WWII learning the necessary theory just by the way in a try'n error manner. It's like the entire Arena would be filled with pilots at least equally skilled as Hartmann, Bong or whatever real ace else. So if it comes to dogfight you are nearly always pushed at an harder level than 99% of any real fighter pilots had to do for winning their dogfights in real life, since it was quite rare if they were aces to meet another ace as opponent. Most sim pilots arround here don't seem to be that good normal pilots though. Flying sailplanes in real myself I also keep wondering how I always keep notorious coming in for the landings below the glide path here (you shouldn't do that IRL or you get grounded for at least 2 weeks ;) ), but well it just doesn't concern you as much here as it would be if your live really depends on it. ;)
Bottom line is: If you want to compare real life dogfight experiences with those of a sim you either have to have an arena entirely filled with 1 week newbies or it ain't work. ;)
BTW I once met a real life jet pilot in warbirds. He has flown the F-104 (Starfighter, hope I haven't spaced the number) I think and accumulated a lot of flight hours in that crates (also as test pilot). He also met Hartmann once and could look back on a very accomplished carreer in the real Air Force (german) with I think quite some accomplishments in several drill flights and simulated real life fights (remembering him saying once how they enjoyed to have beaten the USAF in one NATO drill once ;) ). Then after he retired he came to warbirds and I enjoyed dogfighting him. Funny thing was that it actually was a piece of cake to blast him out of the sky easily no matter what he or I was flying and what E state we got. At that time I just had about one and a half year dogfighting experience in warbirds and he was to nearly zero still getting used to the view system and such basic stuff we wouldn't bother to talk about. He had to learn as every usual newbie and now (after about 1 or 2 years) he is also quite a good ace in warbirds (still flying there) and I think he would get me now quite frequently in dogfights, but it took him just as long to get the hang of it as it took everybody else to learn the game. So it still is just a game and not reality guys... ;)
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Good job, 10bears!
Thank you for new Solomon's terrain.
However, in historical investigation, the skin of ZEKE is not suitable.
The skin of ZEKE before April, 1943 was green gray.
The skin of ZEKE was not camouflage paint before April, 1943.
If possible, I will want you to return to the gray skin.
If you want more historical investigation, I have some information.
However, it requires time.
I am a Japanese and I am not good at speaking English.