Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hazed- on March 05, 2003, 01:15:45 PM
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I would like to request a few things to add to AH in order to make it more exciting to try and land or return to base those broken and damaged aircraft.
1) damage to vital systams which result in the loss of said system.
i.e. loss of electrical power to landing gear means the player has to use a manual deployment of landing gear, perhaps a button you have to repeatedly press whilst the gear slowly lowers to locked position. failure to deploy fully would result in collapse upon impact.
2) Loss of navigational instruments through bullet damage etc. This would suddenly lose you your nice easy GPS type map.You will have to guess your way to home bases etc.Possibly even use those lovely stars you have given us for bearing confirmations.
3) Fire in the engine or cockpit resulting from either battle damage or over working an engine, The player would possibly have an engine extinguiser(on a keyboard button) with limited CO2 or foam etc and may have to use a dive to aid in putting out a fire by starving it of oxygen.
Fire in a cockpit would require hitting a different button for the hand held extinguisher! :D (with resulting cloud of white smoke that clears slowly! :))
4) Weakened structural limits for damaged sections. i.e. if your tail is riddled with bullets theres no more High G flying or you risk ripping off the damaged section. The player must nurse their aircraft home.
5) realistic gun jams maybe with a button for trying to clear the breach.This would possibly only apply to weapons like the zero's cowl weapons which are at hand to the pilot and therefore can be accessed by the pilot from the cockpit.wing weapons would obviously be useless until the ground crews could sort them out (unless they had some unjam mechanism in real life of course)
these are just a few, and i tried to stick to added items that could effectively be ignored by the player who doesnt want all the extra tasks. A player who doesnt care for this sort of thing could land wheels up, or bail from a burning aircraft or when damaged navigatonaly they can just ditch it.But those players who really like this sort of thing can increase their fun by trying to fix things with equiptment that were really on some of these planes.(especially the bombers).
I hope you like the idea HTC , but if not no biggie ;) . what do other players think? good idea or too much bother?
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I really would like to see oxygen systems damagable. Stay under 10k or risk blackouts.......
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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in another game you had to hit a button for o2 and if the o2 system was damaged you needed to get lower.
It would be a "neat" feature in ah.
I believe the la5 and la7 didnt have o2. From what I have read the cockpits were very hot do to the exhaust system. Also exhaust fumes leaked into the cockpit so they flew with there canopies open.
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I would really love to see a fire extinguishing system for the multi-engine bombers. Been inside a B-17, it's really hard to miss those giant red T handles for extinguishing engine fires.
Pleeeeeeeeeassssseeeeeeee HT?
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Good ideas apart from:
realistic gun jams
I don't think you could ever model this 'realistically', without imposing artificial constraints. I'm very suspicious of anything deemed 'random'.
As for oxygen. In WW1, air combat was regularly taking place at 16k for short periods. In open cockpits with no oxygen supply. Hypoxia was killing pilots, but it didn't stop them seeking such extreme alts. In 1918, the RFC introduced a plane equipped with oxygen in recognition of this fact, but there is no 'insta-death' by going over 10k without oxygen.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Good ideas apart from:
I don't think you could ever model this 'realistically', without imposing artificial constraints. I'm very suspicious of anything deemed 'random'.
As for oxygen. In WW1, air combat was regularly taking place at 16k for short periods. In open cockpits with no oxygen supply. Hypoxia was killing pilots, but it didn't stop them seeking such extreme alts. In 1918, the RFC introduced a plane equipped with oxygen in recognition of this fact, but there is no 'insta-death' by going over 10k without oxygen.
Not asking for 'random' gun jams. He (We) are asking for possible gun jams if firing the guns while pulling high G maneuvers. The pilot could avoid the situation by not firing his guns during high G maneuvers.
Not asking for 'insta-death' if flying to high. He (We) are asking for increased chances of temporary blackouts if flying above 14K with no oxygen system available. The pilot could correct the situation by reducing his altitude.
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Loss of navigational instruments through bullet damage etc. This would suddenly lose you your nice easy GPS type map.You will have to guess your way to home bases etc.Possibly even use those lovely stars you have given us for bearing confirmations.
I like that idea. If someone pulls up the clipboard the map could just be blank, yet all the other buttons/options would be there if needed.
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dreeems, dreem , dreem ,dreems.............
i like it
ramzey
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Yep, fully agree apart from the gun jams. (Not saying it didn't happen just think it is a recipe for a whine feast). Anything which is directly tied to an aircraft service should react accordingly.
I'd like to add (Yet again).... Failure of things like turrets in bombers if the appropriate engine driving the generator gets knocked out.
TTFN
snafu
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how about when you fire for a prolonged period?
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Sounds good Hazed, except for the "random" gun jams.
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Originally posted by wetrat
Sounds good Hazed, except for the "random" gun jams.
REALISTIC not "Random"
See my other post above.
Also, for those of you who think a full gun jam is unfair, how about a compromise?
If you fire your guns when pulling over 4Gs, the rate of fire is reduced by half. If you try to fire the guns when over 5Gs, they won't fire at all. Once Gs are normalized, guns operate as normal.
Personally, I think they should jam if that's what they did in real life.
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yes..i liek all those ideas..the no GP Sthing i ssweet...
as far as the gun jams go..i dont liek ti..yes i know it ads realism..
but im not here to fly for 5 hours to find a fight..I like GPS..
but..How would i get my so many snap shot kills in 109..if the G meter is slowing my guns!!..lolo..
best idea i have heard of so far tho...
Salute hazed..nice 1..
smoke in cockpit wpuld be kik ass
Salute BiGB
xoxo
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Personally, I think they should jam if that's what they did in real life.
Fair enough, but you ought to give your scientific, non-anecdotal g-load performance test data on all AH's weapons to HTC. They are going to need that sort of thing. ;)
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If you fire your guns when pulling over 4Gs, the rate of fire is reduced by half. If you try to fire the guns when over 5Gs, they won't fire at all. Once Gs are normalized, guns operate as normal.
The trouble with that is they did not all react to G forces in the same way. HTC is not going to open themselves up to "Well the MG 151 was fired electrically and so it should be more resistent to jamming than the Hispano" arguements.
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Glad people like the idea behind these suggestions.
I can understand peoples aversion to gun jams. No one wants to fly to a target only to find their guns dont work.And like you guys said it opens up the huge 'my gun was less prone to jamming because it says so in this pilot story' debates:D might be best avoided for a peacefull BB hehe
The GPS thing is merely for bullets damaging the instruments and of course if you have not damamge you would have the map working just as it is now.
anyhow anyone else want to add some stuff to the list of things here? may as well throw in as many ideas as we can and HTC can pick and choose any they like the sound of.
I thought of one to discourage using aircraft that werent designed for extreme altitudes from flying really high and that is canopy 'icing'. The higher you go the more the icing or misting creeps up the coanopy until it restricts your veiw a fair amount to cause a problem to your SA.(this should only take affect at heights way above the average fighting alts so as not to interfere with the majority of fights) Of course any aircraft that had heated hoods or de-misting equiptment should gain a benefit here.The specialised pressurised cockpit aircraft will really show their worth this way, after all they were developed because of just such an advantage to their employment in the design of these specialised aircraft.
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Some ideas-
When a pilot is wounded instead of what we have now i would like a different effect. Have any of you guys played the Raven Shield demo? When you get hit by tear gas your vision is really freaky- well that's the sorta thing i would like but less extreme. Also, i would like it if the pilot couldn't yank back on the stick- maybe they could only use 75% of the force they could have (perhaps it could get worse over time as they bleed to death).
When people check their six the head should move slower depending on how many G's you are pulling. I really can't imagine a pilot looking over his shoulder when pulling a 6g's in an instant.
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Sounds good. I like especially #4.
Right now a Wing e.g. is damaged or not. If the fatal hit is just one 7mm shot away, you can still turn with as much G as with a completely healthy plane.
But then there should be as well some sort of damage-check. If in RL a pilot sees more holes than wing if he looks to the right, he knows he wants to go home. Slow. Without stress.
So as there is no special amount of bullets needed to rip off a wing off a certain AC, the Pilot should be able to estimate the amount of DMG already done, to act accordingly.
Maybe when you hit Ctrl-D you not only see red and green writings, but also the blend over of the RGB-Values. Best would be not a certain Percentage, because this would be too exact again. Like range-icons.
But good ideas in general.
Maybe for AH2?
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I really like that wounded idea. I think it is pretty unrealistic the way youve been shot in the arm and you can still fly your plane fine with only a few blackouts every now and then. I agree-vision screw-ups and a weak pilot would be cool.
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This aversion to gun jams really seems strange to me. This is one of the reasons rifle caliber guns were on planes. They worked. I think this would only add depth. I look forward to this additional realism. The guys that cant handle it can stay in the MA.
The problem is getting good failure rate data. I am sure it is out there though.
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Originally posted by ergRTC
This aversion to gun jams really seems strange to me. This is one of the reasons rifle caliber guns were on planes. They worked. I think this would only add depth. I look forward to this additional realism. The guys that cant handle it can stay in the MA.
The problem is getting good failure rate data. I am sure it is out there though.
I like the idea's Hazed. In another sim I flew the guns would jam in hi-G manuvers you had to hit a button a number of times to try to unjam. Sometimes it worked sometimes not. I dont think it needs to modeled to the extreme though ?
Also, and I am sure this has been mentioned. Engine overheat.
No more full throttle all the time. Damaged engine w/ oil all over windscreen = bail out ? Or skew the view out oneside or the other ?
Jospe
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I am really looking forward to some more engine management. Like a throttle that can travel far enough to destroy the engine. That is the way it should be.
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I think the Aversion to gun jams is due mostly to the reason ppl pay to play. The focus of our aggression is directed through the trigger finger. Why would I pay to express my frustration when I might be randomly denied the pleasure of a kill?
War had gun failures and sucked for those intending to defend their lives. Why attempt to replicate a situation in a simulation when the overall objectives are so diverse? WWII Combat was life or death, I want to sit in my living room killing things, but not be so immersed in reality that all I do is fly for hours taking screenshots of waether and formations. (as often happened in WWII)
Hell if you want to get real about it, you might as well design a USB device that delivers a Taser or fatal shock when shot down...
2Hawks
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2hawks I have to disagree. I am in this game to fly a ww2 sim, not an arcade game. That is why this new setup is so nice, you can continue to pop your quarters into the MA, I however want as many aspects of realism as possible (without making it impossible to fly). Many of these sorts of variables will probably only exist in the mission arena.
Also, you may be missing the fact that most fighters had more than one forward firing gun. For example you have eight of em on a p47. Not likely you would end up with more than 1 jammed.
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this is a sim???
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lol YES ..LETS SHOCK THE PLAYERS WHO GET SHOT DOWN!!! TAZER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lolo i love tht one..may be some legal problems tho...You guys with your pace makers and but plugs
Other then that i like these ideas..and would be sweet..well no gun jams for me please..
Salute
BiGB
xoxo
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Perhaps we can ask that gun jams, (ASSuming they are implemented.) be made a switchable option with a check box, with values for severity like killshooter, hit damage etc.
Quote >
"You guys with your pace makers and but plugs "
Quit yer whinin MAW, You suck! :p
2Hawks!