Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: crowMAW on March 05, 2003, 04:48:40 PM
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The motors for model rockets were added to the list of explosive substances under the Homland Security Act. As a result every person who handles the motors during shipping must be certified, fingerprinted and pass a background check. As a result shippers will not handle the motors to get them to hobby stores.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/877295.asp?0cl=cR
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passing a security check is a good thing IMO and doesn't hurt the sport one bit
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Looks like there is actions to amend the law.
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where's creamo?
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Please post that pic of your red rocket Creamo. That was fantastic! :)
SOB
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This thread is getting gay at a rapid rate of knots.
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.
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a half cents (one of the cents was Canadian)
lmao
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LOL! OK, not the big red rocket behind his zipper...the one he built with cardboard and solid rocket fuel. :D
SOB
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This situation sucks for rocket enthusiasts.. usps, fedex, ups won't ship motors without a massive surcharge, and authentication of the entire supply chain for hobby items of this nature will require massive price increases to bear the costs.
Any distributor of these products will suddenly be placed on the shippers list of 'distributors of hazmat' and their parcels, even though they do not contain hazmat will be individualy opened and inspected prior to their going out into the shippers systems. Results.. if you order a gas engine from a hobby distributor that ALSO carried at one time model rocketry items, you can expect to wait 6 weekks while the package clears security.
Further, distributors and manufacturers will be forced to certify, fingerprint and background check their entire staffs.. model rocket companys will go belly up overnight after this is enacted, killing the sport of model rocketry.
And that sucks.
Next they will come after my giant scale r/c customers.. anything that can payload more than a pound in flight will be proscibed soon..
damn; but this sucks big time.
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It's not that bad, government requires a license asks 11 majic questions about your life you tell them you've never done nothing illegal send in 50 bucks and uncle gives you a license permitting you to receive rocket motors for your hobby.
How else do ya think this war gonna get paid for? TAX the snot out of'em!
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Hangtime you run a hobby shop?
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Wlfgng... I know it's offtopic but at least have a clue and not just hit reply. Rock, hook me up with that 50% discount!
The bad part is do any of you want the ATF to have a permit to come into your home for any reason? I dunno, I'm not a shotgun totin whiskey runner although i own one and drink the plenty of the other, but no one is welcome into my house to "have a look around." Ever. And because I shoot hobby rockets they can? That doesn't seem odd to even the most liberal paranoid pansy's?
I have already had a background check by the FBI for my job which was no biggy. Computer finger prints were actually interesting, but I'm not sure who's picking up the bill. You can't ask Mom and Pop A-Z Hobbies to start having checks on anyone who will come in contact with a rocket motor because the ATFE thinks they are an 'explosive'. This whole Homeland Security is getting outta hand.
I think there will be exceptions to the Act before it gets to the point you take your kids and their Alpha 3 or fatboy to get finger printed.
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Dang... that's too bad.
MiniD
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I certainly feel safer now that Estes is on the way out.
They were obviously a threat to the safety and security of the United States.
This country is ridiculous.
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The lack of outrage seems... strange. This is surely akin to suddenly introducing the compulsory licensing of firearms. But since it isn't guns, it's a 'neccessary restriction'...
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Pretty soon The US will be as absurd as Canada with Laws like those.
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the BATF are as bad in some ways as the EPA but much worse in others... nothing good to say about either group.
lazs
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They'll get this fixed.
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I like the Ban on rental trucks idea as one of them was actually used in OK.
I hunt with black powder (can I say that, is it PC or is it colored powder) Guess I need to stock up now.
Now that I think about my reloading primers ARE explosive! ...crap
gota stock up!! course then I may show up on the radar screen
what to do ...what to do
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Gasoline tanks are explosives, so are propane tanks... are they gonna require background checks next time you wanna grill outdoors or gas up your lawnmower?
Someone seriously needs to whack these people running these departments with a 8ft steel composite reality check.
-SW
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Originally posted by Scootter
what to do ...what to do
Stock up on the primers and powder but do it slowly. Not that gun shops will report it but there's no reason to take chances at becoming an interest to the ATF or DHS in these times.
I wonder when buying gunpowder will become hard to do after reading this thread. I can make a < insert a benign name for a device that goes BOOM here incase big brother is watching > much easier with gunpowder than with a toy rocket motor.
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Creamo. it seems like people are over-reacting to this issue. That's why I posted.
Are you saying all this stuff because you THINK it'll come down like that.. or because you KNOW it will?
Personally, if it's just background checks and stuff I don't see the harm. In fact, I'm really interested in the sport and would love to be involved.
If it's like the increased checks at airports.. you know, the ones that everyone was so panicked about before they were implemented, then wooo.. big deal. It turned out to be not such a big deal.
if, in fact, things turn out as dark and dreary as you protray.. then I'd gladly side with the nay-sayers.
till then I'm being a bit more realistic.
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I think they're scared of model rockets being turned into mini ballistic missiles :D
BREAKING NEWS: A model rocket destroyed windowscreen, suspected as a terrorist strike.
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some of the model rockets I've seen are incredible.
dunno about balistic missiles but they sure are friggin awesome.
I've been wanting to get into it. Was into the little Estes stuff as a kid but wish I could get into the 'serious' rocketry that exists today.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Hangtime you run a hobby shop?
yup. i handle hobby items. and this legislation sucks wazoo.
send me an email if yah want more info Gurn.. yer email is turned off.
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hang.. please send me that info.... time to get informed I suppose
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HOUSTON -- A provision deep within the regulations of the new Homeland Security Act is threatening to shut down the popular hobby of model rocketry because the propellant used to make the rocket's solid-fueled motors is now classified as explosive material.
The change in status, approved in November 2002 as an update to the Safe Explosives Act of 1970, imposes new restrictions on shipping and handling the rocket motors, which have been safely flown by thousands of students for many years.
Under the new rules, which fully take effect May 24, shipping companies are required to have every employee who might touch the rocket motors be certified, pass background checks and get fingerprinted -- an added expense the companies are unlikely to bear.
United Parcel Service already has stopped shipping the more powerful versions of model rocket engines, according to Tim Van Milligan, president of Apogee Rockets in Colorado Springs, Colo.
There also are reports that some trucking and railroad firms have stopped shipping the motors, and Fed Ex employees have indicated to some model rocket flyers they likely will follow suit in the coming weeks.
"It is the heart of the problem we face. Because if manufacturers like Estes can't get rocket motors delivered to stores, the hobby is completely dead," Van Milligan said.
U.S. Senator Michael Enzi, R-Wyo., intends to introduce legislation as early as this week to make what's being called a "technical correction" to the Safe Explosives Act so that the material used inside the small motors is removed from the "explosives list."
"Congress defined an explosive as any chemical mixture or device whose primary or common purpose is to function by explosion," Enzi wrote to Bradley Buckles, director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF).
"I am told that the ATF claims that the primary or common purpose of a rocket propellant is to explode. A rocket propellant is not designed or intended to explode," Enzi said.
The model rocket scientists-turned-lobbyists are quick to point out that if model rocket engines are designed to explode under the definition used by the ATF, no rocket would get off the ground. It would just blow up on the pad.
SPACE.com contacted the ATF and left messages but no one returned the calls. When informing one unnamed assistant of the topic, she said "we've been getting a lot of calls on the subject of model rockets."
Model rocket hobbyists of all ages are preparing to fire off faxes, e-mails, letters and phone calls to Capitol Hill to support Enzi's efforts. And they lined up quickly to tell SPACE.com what they thought of the current law.
Jay Apt saw his first model rocket catalog at age 13 in 1962. If the name's familiar it's because he went on to fly four shuttle missions that included two spacewalks and a mission to the International Space Station.
"If we are to keep challenging our technology-inclined young people, we need to keep the benefits of model rocketry in mind when we pursue a tendency, natural in troubled times, to restrict anything which might be abused," Apt said.
"It makes no more sense to restrict aerospace modeling than it would have to ban rental trucks after they were misused in Oklahoma and New York."
There are ways to continue flying model rockets under the current law, but they involve applying for permits, paying a fee, undergoing a background check and getting finger printed.
"Model rocketeers are not criminals and this law treats them like one. How would you like your kids to be finger printed just to fly rockets?" said Van Milligan, who went through what he described as a "difficult" process.
For the space modeling enthusiasts, the actions of the government make no sense, especially at a time when the nation is recovering from the Feb. 1 shuttle Columbia tragedy and kids of all ages are asking questions about the value of such programs.
"Because of increasing legal restrictions, a lack of understanding about model rocketry's excellent safety record, and a general bias against hobby rocketry, it is becoming extremely difficult to get the permits and launch sites needed to expose these young people to the educationally stimulating and inspirational effects of rocketry," said Craig Cline, senior adviser of the Alhambra Rocketry Club in Los Angeles.
"Our country's leadership needs to encourage and protect, not stifle, the ability of the public and our youth to engage in the activities and pursuit of knowledge that have allowed us to become the world leader in scientific advancement."
http://www.space.com
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SOB asked, and for Wlfgn, yeah, they get 'incredible', just go see this guys website.
J. Coker (http://www.jcrocket.com/index.shtml)
It's amazing what a guy can do when he doesn't buy a suit of armour and builds a rocket instead! (inside joke)
Here's my first attempt at a high powered rocket, finally after alot of time completed this month.
(http://www.tqc39.com/toolbox2.JPG)
I had a guy at work paint it, and when he brought it in to deliver it, lotsa guys at work that launched plenty of Estes rockets as kids were as impressed as i was. He did a really nice job. It was a good PR as well to get their kids over to my house this weekend to do some Estes stuff, and hopefully turn them onto this great hobby.
Whether the ATF will regulate the hobby to exstinction is yet to be seen. But in the mean time, anyone remotley interested in R/C aircraft or remember Estes rockets as kids, ought to venture into rocketry. It's a riot.
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I'm so there this summer...
that's just the toejam if you ask me!
sweet!
here's hoping the hobby isn't killed off!!!!
(downing a quick beer)
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Wonder if spud guns would be added if there was a way to fire love rounds instead of taters?
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hmm...wonder what would happen if I tried to bring my Spud gun over the Border?