General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on March 06, 2003, 03:01:25 PM
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: funkedup on March 06, 2003, 03:01:25 PM
How can you condemn past US governments for helping to empower butchers like Bin Laden and Hussein while you simultaneously condemn the current US government for trying to take down Bin Laden and Hussein? You need to pick one.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Mini D on March 06, 2003, 03:03:45 PM
Circular arguments... its impossible to argue against them.
MiniD
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 06, 2003, 03:11:09 PM
No, no, no... you're both mistaken.
There are no Anti-Americans that post here.
Glad I could clear that up.
Title: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: miko2d on March 06, 2003, 03:13:46 PM
funkedup: How can you condemn past US governments for helping to empower butchers like Bin Laden and Hussein while you simultaneously condemn the current US government for trying to take down Bin Laden and Hussein? You need to pick one.
Simple - every time US government did something active/aggressive - it screwed up. Toppling Iranian regime in 53, Vietnam, Somali, support for Taliban, support for Iraq in war with Iran, feew others.
Every time US sat tight and defencively and competed economically and socially, it prevailed - witness the crumbling of Soviet empire, drastic changes in China, etc.
Hence, some people do not want america to screw up again.
In view of that, I am not sure who is pro-american and who is "anti". It used to be that bringing one's country to ruin was considered a bad thing.
miko
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Rockstar on March 06, 2003, 03:14:33 PM
Bankruptcy, record unemployment, industry moving east for the cheap labor. If I was the king I'd be stirring up the pot to keep the minds of the peasants off the real problems too.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: blur on March 06, 2003, 03:15:36 PM
My friend, the issue to me at least is not about Hussein or Bin Laden. It’s about killing innocent civilians to get at these people. In this case I consider it immoral with the cure worse than the disease.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: funkedup on March 06, 2003, 03:16:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by blur My friend, the issue to me at least is not about Hussein or Bin Laden. It’s about killing innocent civilians to get at these people. In this case I consider it immoral with the cure worse than the disease.
Sir you are making too much sense, please leave my thread. :)
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 06, 2003, 03:17:46 PM
But, of course, Hussein or Bin Laden killing innocent civilians doesn't concern you in the least. :D
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Mini D on March 06, 2003, 03:18:32 PM
Miko... do you believe active/agressive actions by the UN have been better of worse historically?
BTW... picking and chosing points to make your point... bad form.
MiniD
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Dowding on March 06, 2003, 03:22:44 PM
Quote
BTW... picking and chosing points to make your point... bad form.
So is changing the subject of the thread completely.
There are anti-Americans on this board, I'm sure. In the same way there are xenophobic anti-European types. Swings and roundabouts, I guess.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 06, 2003, 03:26:24 PM
But NONE of US are either of those, thank goodness.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Dowding on March 06, 2003, 03:27:28 PM
You said it.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: straffo on March 06, 2003, 03:46:27 PM
Xenophobic anti-european ?
It's a pure myth !
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: MrBill on March 06, 2003, 04:24:58 PM
... or a new religion ... :D
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2003, 04:25:10 PM
i don't think the USA should have made war on hitler, the war costs too much and innocent people died, hitler was no threat to USA .
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Sixpence on March 06, 2003, 04:32:37 PM
Stop comparing Bush or saddam to hitler, it's getting to be a broken record.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: ufo_peeps on March 06, 2003, 04:36:02 PM
Warmongers!
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Hangtime on March 06, 2003, 04:49:03 PM
Quote
Every time US sat tight and defencively and competed economically and socially, it prevailed - witness the crumbling of Soviet empire, drastic changes in China, etc.
Come christmas, I'm gonna stuff a turkey with all the crap you post, miko; and send it to yah as a gift. ;)
Sitting tight defensively crumbled the soviet empire?? LOL! Competeing economicly created drastic changes in China?? Man, you have some pretty wiz-bang history and economics professors where yer gettin programed. ;)
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: -tronski- on March 06, 2003, 05:54:22 PM
Quote
There are anti-Americans on this board, I'm sure. In the same way there are xenophobic anti-European types. Swings and roundabouts, I guess.
Don't the anti-americans wrestle for the WWF or something?
Tronsky
Title: Re: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: AKIron on March 06, 2003, 07:39:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d Simple - every time US government did something active/aggressive - it screwed up. Toppling Iranian regime in 53, Vietnam, Somali, support for Taliban, support for Iraq in war with Iran, feew others.
Every time US sat tight and defencively and competed economically and socially, it prevailed - witness the crumbling of Soviet empire, drastic changes in China, etc.
Defintiely the most ignorant thing I've seen you post Miko. How about WWI, WWII, and yes, the military might of the US was no small factor in winning the cold war. Perhaps a retraction is in order?
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: SirLoin on March 06, 2003, 08:25:55 PM
Is being anti-GWB being anti-American?
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: OIO on March 06, 2003, 08:39:01 PM
Miko, you have a point there.
However, ex-USSR and China have been world powers and significant economic and militarily influential nations in the world stage. They had everything to lose in an economic and military confrontation. One of them already "lost" and the other one has decided to not confront the US on an economic battle and has instead begun to compete rather than confront.
Iraq (I should say hussein, I cant think of the 2 being one) is neither a world power economically nor militarily. Its only real power lies in the potential it has to rattling the rest of the arab nations. With that in mind, a stand by and wait policy is not really something you can use against hussein.
It is however, a very real threat to have this creep in power with the capability to sell WMD's to non-nations (read terrorist cells, rebel groups, etc) that are very likely to be used against millions of innocent people.
Waiting is not an option, acting is an option although it is not exactly one thats preferable...
so what then?
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Sandman on March 07, 2003, 12:48:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001 i don't think the USA should have made war on hitler, the war costs too much and innocent people died, hitler was no threat to USA .
Let's see... Hitler killed jews.
Hussein threatens jews...
I think I see the connection. It's a bit thin.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: funkedup on March 07, 2003, 12:55:03 AM
Hitler had a mustache.
Hussein has a mustache.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: hyena426 on March 07, 2003, 01:27:49 AM
Quote
i don't think the USA should have made war on hitler, the war costs too much and innocent people died, hitler was no threat to USA
im glad usa did,,he was building special bombers for the sake of attacking usa,,his next big target,,,that guy was attacking everyone
he would tell poland he wasnt going to attack them,, next day they would invade,,told french the same thing,,we dont want war with french!!,next day he invaded,,he signed a treaty with russian,,broke it too,,lol,,killing millions of russians,,french,,jews,,polish,,english,,that guy wasnt going to stop till everyone was ether dead or under his thumb
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: straffo on March 07, 2003, 01:29:02 AM
Rotfl :)
Staline too ;)
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Ping on March 07, 2003, 03:00:14 AM
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who said that? That is one of the positive consequences of taking out Saddam...there are hundreds of other positive consequences too. There is not one positive consequence of leaving him in power though. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My reply was: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hortlund, this may surprise you but, you are correct. However there is even more to lose by going in without due caution. #1 priority: War against terrorism By Unilaterally going in on Saddam you will weaken that #1 objective. Terrorism is not a State, it is a shadowy entity with no borders. By acting rashly, 1000's more of these shadowy figures will emerge due to an act of aggression.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Frogm4n on March 07, 2003, 03:15:12 AM
miko is right, in the long run these countrys attack noone and fail to compete econmically and their dictatorships fall apart. whenever there is violence in a country it tends to bread more dictators to take their place. hell thats what happened to germany, we forced them into democracy and they sure turned out allright after ww1.
Title: Re: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Saurdaukar on March 07, 2003, 08:57:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d [ Every time US sat tight and defencively and competed economically and socially, it prevailed - witness the crumbling of Soviet empire, drastic changes in China, etc.
Kinda like our posture during that whole September 11th thing right? I forget exactly what happened that day - but I seem to recall it being semi important... all I know is we were minding our own business, maintaining a defensive posture, competing economically and socially... and then BAM! Well - whatever it was, who cares, its not like it will happen again or anything, right?
The world is different today Miko. Defensive posture doesnt work against these types of attacks.
It is the duty of a government to provide for the security of its citizens and thats exactly what the Bush administration is doing. None of us are even close to understanding the situation in the world today, let the people we elected do their job - Im willing to bet they're a little bit more informed than a group of political firebrand flight sim junkies.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 07, 2003, 09:42:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Frogm4n hell thats what happened to germany, we forced them into democracy and they sure turned out allright after ww1.
Man, I LOVE learning new stuff.
Can you give me link showing where "we" (whoever that is) forced Germany into a Democracy after WW1?
I missed that in my study of World History. I always thought Wilhelm yielded his throne voluntarily in November of 1918 and the Social Democrats took over and started the Wiemar Republic.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Dowding on March 07, 2003, 09:54:00 AM
I think he meant WW2, not WW1.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: lazs2 on March 07, 2003, 10:01:54 AM
I admit to being naive.. If I were living in iraq I would be wishing with all my might for an invasion of my country so as to be able to get out from under the rule of this stalinist type despot. I would know that the invasion would be friegteninfg and dangerous... but... It would seem a small price to me as I would feel that living under the sadman was frieghtening and dangerous every single day of my life.
I guess a lot of Americans feel like I do... we think that it must be worse than dangerous to live in that regiem. Maybe we are wrong... maybe living in terror is better than taking a chance. lazs
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Mini D on March 07, 2003, 10:07:05 AM
Ummmm... Toad...
The hook isn't barbed, I think you can pull it out without doing too much damage.
MiniD
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 07, 2003, 12:20:00 PM
Well Dowding, let's see if he edits.
MiniD.. I must have missed it?
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: miko2d on March 07, 2003, 01:49:12 PM
Mini D: Miko... do you believe active/agressive actions by the UN have been better of worse historically?
Even without bothering to recall any significant actions by UN, I would not trust that entity to do any good.
BTW... picking and chosing points to make your point... bad form.
Picking and choosing arguments to prove one's position and then willing to listen to the counter-arguments is what's expected from a participant in a discussion. What's bad form is to ignore the opponent's arguments, not care to cite any of your own but start berating him for moral deficiencies.
john9001: i don't think the USA should have made war on hitler, the war costs too much and innocent people died, hitler was no threat to USA
The majority of americans were of that opinion even after Dec 7, 41. Incidentally, if USA haven't made war on Germany in WWI and then helped/allowed to starve innocent german people, there wouldn't have been any need to fight Hitler.
Hangtime: Sitting tight defensively crumbled the soviet empire?? LOL! Competeing economicly created drastic changes in China?
That's not what I said. I said that while US practiced containment rather than aggression, the Soviet empire crumbled by itself. With time chinese sociery also advanced towards freedom.
Man, you have some pretty wiz-bang history and economics professors..
I've been there. Don't remember any invading US troops when Gorbachev set the Union loose.
AKIron: How about WWI, WWII,
I was thinking about the last half a century - after WWII. WWII was a different case. WWI was a mistake to get into. One side was no better than the other there to warrant US intervention - germens did not really bayonet the belgian infants andy more than iraqi did. Since you've moved the starting point, why didn't you begin with US annexation/genocide of Phillipines and banana republic wars?
yes, the military might of the US was no small factor in winning the cold war
Certainly - while it was not used actively/aggresively against soviets. You do not have to parrot my points for me.
OIO: With that in mind, a stand by and wait policy is not really something you can use against hussein.
Surely, OIO - it is possible that invasion into Iraq is really warranted. I may be mistaken, not having all the information. But as you've admitted I have some reasons to believe that US government may be making a mistake since it made plenty in the past.
The main point of this discussion is that not all people opposing this invasion are motivated by irrational anti-americanism.
miko2d: Every time US sat tight and defencively... Saurdaukar: Kinda like our posture during that whole September 11th thing right?
Exactly. We placed our troops in the Saudi Arabia to the support of the opressive feudal regime against it's population and to the sacrilege of muslims and our best friend Ossama Bin Laden turned on us.
lazs2: If I were living in iraq I would be wishing with all my might for an invasion of my country so as to be able to get out from under the rule of this stalinist type despot.
You are entitled to that opinion, of course. But I lived in the Soviet Union and no people there would have wanted to suffer a war and invasion so that the survivors were rid of the soviet oppression amidst of total devastation. Especially if they knew, as we know now, that such regimes tend to crumble by themselves. (Do not bother to search my old posts - I did say that US should have nuked Stalin before he acquired nuclear weapons and posed real threat to US - which he did, had he not died shortly after. But not to "liberate" the oppressed population.) And Iraqi "oppression" is not nearly as severe as was the one in the former Soviet Union - one can own land and run a private business there and leave the country, unlike in USSR, own gold - which was illegal for US citisens untill 70s. One can freely buy automatic weapons and handguns there - which tells one something about how oppressive that regime really is.
Of course there are ethnic groups that always opposed Iraqi govenment - Kurds, southern Shia - both of which took side of the enemy during the last war. If we want to liberate those, we should just declare their territories independent states. Baghdad does not control kurdistan anyway and both places are in the no-fly zones. Hussein wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. Would we want to do that? Like hell we would. The shia would join Iran and our ally Turkey would never tolerate an independent Kurdistan, so liberating them was never in our plans.
miko
Title: Re: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: AKIron on March 07, 2003, 01:57:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d Simple - every time US government did something active/aggressive - it screwed up.
My mistake, I think. :confused:
Title: One Question?
Post by: N1kPaz on March 07, 2003, 02:04:58 PM
If we americans are such screw ups, why is it that we are the most economically, militarily, are culturally powerful nation on the planet???
Jeez even the staunchest anti-american have to agree...we are the most successful culture on the planet...we must be doing something right.
no offence world.
Title: Re: One Question?
Post by: miko2d on March 07, 2003, 02:15:03 PM
N1kPaz: If we americans are such screw ups, why is it that we are the most economically, militarily, are culturally powerful nation on the planet???
Invalid question. I never said americans screw up. I said US government tends to screw up.
Americans are the most economically, militarily, are (arguably) culturally powerful nation because US has the most liberal free-market economy in the world plus whatever vestiges of Constitution survived the liberal onslaught - which allows americans in private sphere to create incredible wealth and generate great progress.
What does government have to do with it? Do you believe it's the government that caused all that greatness? Which one, then? At least 50% of americans hate their government an any time.
miko
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: N1kPaz on March 07, 2003, 02:15:48 PM
hehe
Title: Re: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Mini D on March 07, 2003, 03:37:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d Simple - every time US government did something active/aggressive - it screwed up. Toppling Iranian regime in 53, Vietnam, Somali, support for Taliban, support for Iraq in war with Iran, feew others.
Its not about discussion miko.. its about you making a statement like "every time". Once again, back it up. Not with examples... cause examples don't speak for "every time". You made the statement, back it up.
MiniD
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Charon on March 07, 2003, 04:44:11 PM
Quote
None of us are even close to understanding the situation in the world today, let the people we elected do their job - Im willing to bet they're a little bit more informed than a group of political firebrand flight sim junkies.
Saurdaukar
It's not rocket science. We still have a free press that presents a broad spectrum of more or less truthful positions. It really only becomes too complicated if you lack the processing tools to figure it out (which would be a minority of people, IMO) or just aren't interested in taking the time required to look through primary and credible secondary source material instead of waiting for the 30-second soundbites from Fox News and CNN. With the Web it's even easier as long as you check the source. Even reading a legitimate newspaper beyond the sports and entertainment pages provides a fairly clear background on the issues at hand and the potential impact of various courses of action.
It also doesn't pay to overestimate these guys. Some truly are geniuses, particularly some of the ones behind the scenes. But most are just a better used car salesmen than the person they ran against. I mean, wasn’t Clinton ;) Is Bush all that much different in the end? And it all depends on who's advice they are following, how many advisers are “yes men” and if what seems like a good idea in the think tank or meeting room really plays out in the field. Hey, wasn't Kenneth Lay a pretty smart cookie? An awful lot of blind trust (and sloppy oversight) was placed in his leadership of Enron and look what happened.
Maybe our founding fathers had it right about the need for a more limited republic. Perhaps this whole broad enfranchisement thing has already been carried too far.
Charon
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Rafe on March 07, 2003, 05:06:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by blur My friend, the issue to me at least is not about Hussein or Bin Laden. It’s about killing innocent civilians to get at these people. In this case I consider it immoral with the cure worse than the disease.
That's true. :(
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 07, 2003, 06:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Charon Maybe our founding father's had it right about the need for a more limited republic. Perhaps this whole broad enfranchisement thing has already been carried too far.
Charon
Oh, man... I can't wait to see this one develop!
Go Charon!
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Hangtime on March 07, 2003, 07:51:11 PM
know whatcha mean toad.
betcha 5 bucks it goes libertarian. ;)
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Charon on March 07, 2003, 10:43:00 PM
LOL...ooops. I'm really kidding, at least halfway kidding :)
Quote
"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right, from the frame of their nature, to knowledge, as their great Creator, who does nothing in vain, has given them understandings, and a desire to know; but besides this, they have a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge; I mean, of the characters and conduct of their rulers." John Adams, Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law, 1765
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams, in Defense of the British Soldiers on trial for the Boston Massacre, 1770
"The public cannot be too curious concerning the characters of public men." Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775
"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffusd and Virtue is preservd. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauchd in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders." Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775
Charon
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 07, 2003, 11:20:27 PM
Quote
"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffusd and Virtue is preservd. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauchd in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders." Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775
Well, half of that is already there, fer sure.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Eagler on March 08, 2003, 12:51:38 AM
we don't need to drop bombs, just hi speed modems/computers, Xboxs, coca cola, McD's & playboys - tell the 15 to 25 crowd theres more where that came from when you get rid of the guy with the bighead and mustache - wha-la problem solved :)
imagine how many Xboxs you could drop for each cruise missisle? hell, throw in a 25" sony to boot ....
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Siaf__csf on March 08, 2003, 02:41:36 AM
Posted by Toad:
Quote
But, of course, Hussein or Bin Laden killing innocent civilians doesn't concern you in the least.
It's no different to Bush or Rumsfelt killing innocent civillians, is it? By taking into the act you lower yourselves to the level of the terrorists. That's mighty sad.
Title: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: blitz on March 08, 2003, 09:04:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup How can you condemn past US governments for helping to empower butchers like Bin Laden and Hussein while you simultaneously condemn the current US government for trying to take down Bin Laden and Hussein? You need to pick one.
We don't condemn US for tryin to take down them.
It's the way and the words Bush & his warmongers choose that some people strongly dislike. We simply don't want a single nation puts itself in the position of the worlds cop.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain redicoulous
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: lazs2 on March 08, 2003, 09:15:18 AM
miko... you prove my point... the people of iraq are living under someone every bit as bad as stalin at his worst... by your own logic and statements.... we should invade and any people would be willing to take a chance on the "devestation". If you claim that the only reason not to invade the soviet union was that ..... stalin died? sheesh.... how many people died or, more accurately, lived their whole lives under that despot? how many will live/have lived their entire lives under the sadman?
What comfort would you offer? "don't worry..... these regiems tend to go go away on their own...... eventually.." lazs
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: StSanta on March 08, 2003, 09:20:26 AM
Heh trashing generates trashing.
You'll notice that most posts are opposing the war, not the US.
OTOH the Eurowussies direct insults to nations comments are worse.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 08, 2003, 09:25:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf Posted by Toad:
It's no different to Bush or Rumsfelt killing innocent civillians, is it? By taking into the act you lower yourselves to the level of the terrorists. That's mighty sad.
Yes, it is extremely different. It's completely different. It's not the same at all.
If you can't see the difference, I feel sorry for you because you are a "mighty sad" excuse for an intellect.
Now, I could enumerate some differences, but it'll mean more to you if you reflect on it and come up with a few yourself.
Toodle-pip.
Title: Re: Re: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 08, 2003, 09:31:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by blitz We don't condemn US for tryin to take down them.
It's the way and the words Bush & his warmongers choose that some people strongly dislike. We simply don't want a single nation puts itself in the position of the worlds cop.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain redicoulous
Now THAT'S funny! Is this your girlfriend speaking for you?
You don't like the way Bush TALKS about this? That's your big problem?
You don't like the WAY he's going to do it? That's your big problem? (I suppose you have a better strategic and tactical plan for the employment of military force to remove Hussein?)
You don't want the US to be the world's cop? OUT-FORKING-STANDING! Guess what? We're tired of doing it! What serendipity!
Problem is...... NONE of yas have a military that's capable of even whipping Iraq....... and that won't take much....... let alone an outfit like North Korea which WILL take much.
So, let us know when you actually hire a policeman or two.
(But maybe Rumsfeld will have all our troops home before you get that done... in fact, I'm SURE that will happen because you guys will NEVER hire. ;) )
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Monk on March 08, 2003, 09:36:07 AM
Wohooo....easy, Toad;) I think its called "envy" in German.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: sling322 on March 08, 2003, 09:36:45 AM
Quote
We simply don't want a single nation puts itself in the position of the worlds cop.
Sorry to break this to you Blitz....but the US has been the world's cop for a long time.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: blitz on March 08, 2003, 09:47:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by sling322 Sorry to break this to you Blitz....but the US has been the world's cop for a long time.
Even worse then, but thats a new step we see now and we strongly dislike it because this cop ( Bush & the boys) are corrupt.
Regards Blitz
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain redicoulous
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Suave on March 08, 2003, 09:58:41 AM
Thus far the inspections haven't yeilded much, or even deterred Hussien from his pursuit of WMD .
I see it like this we really only have two choices:
1 Permanent inspections, with our military deployed to the region for decades, pissing off the Saudi people who resent our presence and taxing our economy . The inspections would have to be indefinite, as soon as the UN and US leave, he would be back to his old tricks.
2 Finish the war that has been going on for too long and get the bulk of our forces out of there . Yes there will be bloodshed, but it will be brief and it will mean much less bloodshed in the future. Yes we will need civil affairs personel in country to stabilize and rebuild. But again this is much less costly than option 1 .
In my opinion option #2 will yield the most happiness, for us, the Iraqis and the Saudis .
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Ghosth on March 08, 2003, 10:51:49 AM
3 points
A Saddam has weapons of mass distructoin. We KNOW this, they have scuds they havn't used, chem & biological weapons that could in theory destroy any country. They have been trying for years to get a Nucular capability.
B He will use them, he has used them in the past on both enemy's & his OWN PEOPLE!
C Even if he himself does NOT use them, how hard is it for him to say. "Hey terrorists, want to have some fun? Come get this stuff & scatter it wherever you like"
If it was just one of any of these 3 points we would not Prepareing to invade. Example, North Korea & their breeder reactor.
Fact remains hes is not only a threat to us, but the whole world.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Ping on March 08, 2003, 02:09:39 PM
But what really matters is that by the end of the night I'm prolly gonna be truely hammered.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: kbman on March 08, 2003, 04:33:38 PM
Does anyone have solid evidence that Saddam has only one testicle? If that were the case, then I think the comparisons to Hitler would be more substantive. I withhold judgement until I see the evidence.
kbman
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Dowding on March 08, 2003, 05:33:20 PM
Quote
Does anyone have solid evidence that Saddam has only one testicle? If that were the case, then I think the comparisons to Hitler would be more substantive. I withhold judgement until I see the evidence.
Saddam does have only one ball. The other is in the Albert Hall. And there is substantitive and verifiable evidence that his mother (a reputedly unclean fornicator) regularly serves bollocks for scallops for tea.
I heard Bush mumble it, I'm sure.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: -tronski- on March 09, 2003, 03:27:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding Saddam does have only one ball. The other is in the Albert Hall. And there is substantitive and verifiable evidence that his mother (a reputedly unclean fornicator) regularly serves bollocks for scallops for tea.
I heard Bush mumble it, I'm sure.
Actaully that is possibly true, as our PM Johnny Howard (the P is for Parrot I suspect) confirmed today that he's not entirely sure what Bush mumbles, but he whole heartedly agrees...and infact has been known to have juggled a testicle or two for both Tony and the boy king when they're feeling amorous after a jolly good back slapping session, so he knows what he's talking about.
Tronsky
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 09, 2003, 03:48:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by -tronski- Actaully that is possibly true, as our PM Johnny Howard (the P is for Parrot I suspect) confirmed today that he's not entirely sure what Bush mumbles, but he whole heartedly agrees...
Tronsky
Don't fool yourself into thinking you know what's going on in this world. The first duty of power is to perpetuate itself, and we don't even know who the actual powerful people are. Truman started the whole American tradition of secrecy after WWII with Project Paperclip, in which the CIA put captured Nazi scientists to work on America's nuclear arsenal, the space program, and all this "otherworldly" technology they'd come across. (And you know what I mean.) Then they got Truman to create the super-secret Majestic 12 committee to oversee Project Paperclip, not to mention other weird stuff the government wanted hidden. They ran the whole thing, and they've been running it for years, but nobody knows who "they" are. But I'm pretty sure they're all Freemasons.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Toad on March 09, 2003, 08:21:40 AM
Man, I hope you were in a lead-lined room when you typed that last one!
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: -tronski- on March 10, 2003, 12:58:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin Don't fool yourself into thinking you know what's going on in this world. The first duty of power is to perpetuate itself, and we don't even know who the actual powerful people are. Truman started the whole American tradition of secrecy after WWII with Project Paperclip, in which the CIA put captured Nazi scientists to work on America's nuclear arsenal, the space program, and all this "otherworldly" technology they'd come across. (And you know what I mean.) Then they got Truman to create the super-secret Majestic 12 committee to oversee Project Paperclip, not to mention other weird stuff the government wanted hidden. They ran the whole thing, and they've been running it for years, but nobody knows who "they" are. But I'm pretty sure they're all Freemasons.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Hangtime on March 10, 2003, 01:13:09 AM
here's the culprit. (http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/images/511/image_09.gif)
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 10, 2003, 03:43:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by -tronski- Freemason's eh?
stonecutters perhaps?
Tronsky
Just the tip of the conspiracy iceberg... (by the way 'source 12' is a code name for 'The Onion':D The particular quote I used was from "Ask a Conspiracy Theorist" advice column)
You can get a Black Helicopter I.D. Kit from http://www.infocom.com/%7Ethomil/black.htm (http://www.infocom.com/%7Ethomil/black.htm)
Quote
The "Black Helicopter" enigma has been with us for many years, and has been linked to UFO sightings, cattle mutilations, and other unexplained phenomena. Since 1993, however, the "Black Helicopter" has become a much more common sight, appearing independently of the "strange event" which once was required to "attract" these craft. Sometimes alone, sometimes in small groups, and occasionally being escorted by conventional military helicopters, these unidentified craft have become a common sight in the skies.
Title: Anti-Americans Clue Me In Please
Post by: Saintaw on March 10, 2003, 06:41:29 AM
No hate here,
but
What can you expect, if you call poeple "traitors/asses/etc" because their govnmt *disagrees* with yours?
Oh yeah... and that line about "culture" will have me chuckling for a few hours.